Shmups: Most expensive genre?

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:03 am

It might be my imagination, but since its now the no1 niche genre, with PCB releases being almost exclusive to shmups, it must now be the most expensive genre to collect.

Talk of Ketsui going over the $1000 threshold in many cases, the odd DC or Playstation oldy going for $70+. I don't see RPG's fetching these prices anymore. The only collectable thing that is more expensive to my mind is the neo geo AES, which is a system, not a genre.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:12 am

neorichieb1971 wrote: The only collectable thing that is more expensive to my mind is the neo geo AES, which is a system, not a genre.

AES cant hold a candle to PCB collecting.. anymore.. a few years ago sure but AES has been going downwards steadily ever since the masses discovered MVS, while PCBs have been on the rise...

and yeah shmups certainly have fallen into the collectors eyes.. the genre as a whole is on the rise id say.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:28 am

If you're looking to collect, then you're probably right.
In the arcades though, shoot'em ups are cheap compared with the mondo dollars that go into Fighter Challenges. Fighter players can easily spend £30/$60 in one night on challenges. Shooter players might spend £2-£3 or as much as £5/$10.
In the absence of arcades, collecting boards is expensive. My advice is not to collect for the sake of collecting. Just buy the few boards that you know you'll play heavily and leave the rest.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:01 am

I believe the shmup vs fighters argument is not fair. For the most part fighters require new coins be added when someone loses. A shmup on the other hand can last alot longer if your a skillful player.

I have watched the AES scene lately and I know that for the most part alot of titles have come way down in price. Maybe because no more releases are coming out and the scene is dying.

To put my argument in a different context, if you looked at collectable titles on every platform, placed them in order of value and then placed them in groups of genre, I am pretty sure shmups would definately make a % of the top 5 easily.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:09 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:the odd DC or Playstation oldy going for $70+. I don't see RPG's fetching these prices anymore.

Unless it's a Greatest Hits version of Final Fantasy VII.

roker · Post by **roker** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:13 am

does anything compare to the ridiculous price the AES Euro Kizuna Encounter fetches? (the last one sold for $12,500, no typo)

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:41 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:I believe the shmup vs fighters argument is not fair. For the most part fighters require new coins be added when someone loses. A shmup on the other hand can last alot longer if your a skillful player.

I think that's exactly the point DEL was making. As someone that was addicted to a fighting game (and had easy access to arcades) I can say that being only a moderately skilled fighting player is a painful expensive habit. I spent more on VF4 in a year than I did on a brand spanking new Cave PCB at release.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:03 am

GaijinPunch wrote;

I can say that being only a moderately skilled fighting player is a painful expensive habit. I spent more on VF4 in a year than I did on a brand spanking new Cave PCB at release.

Yep, VF will eat ca$h fast, so will Tekken. In fact Tekken has start to finish completion times of less than 3mins (even less than 1) if you're not challenging. If you are challenging, the same time constraint applies.
We have a guy in the London arcades at the moment who's nicknamed 'ATM'

because he literally throws ca$h in Tekken DR.

Oh and I forgot the Driving Games. Some guy in London's Las Vegas arcade was famous for investing thousands and thousands in Daytona etc.

Maybe the Dance Dance machines are costly too

, now that I come to think of it. Good Dance Dance players like to show off their skills in front of crowds.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:24 am

I See your point about arcades and such, although my initial post was more akin to home market situation.

You cannot put a price on how much someone is willing to put in an arcade machine. Thats like saying how long is a piece of string!

Fighters are much more suited to home consoles for this very reason. I would consider $1/£1 or Y1000 daylight robbery for -2mins playtime. Fighters also depreciate the most in recent times because they suffer from sequelitis.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:30 am

DEL wrote:
Maybe the Dance Dance machines are costly too , now that I come to think of it. Good Dance Dance players like to show off their skills in front of crowds.

proboably the most economic of choices in yer average arcade.
you get 2 or 3 songs for your coin and if youre good enough you will be absoluteley knackered after em.. you never see pro-DDR players take on 10 songs in a row.
good excercise too, altho i guess pretty much all competitive play is

i remember the good-ol days when i lived in rotterdam and actually had a decent arcade close to school, just when SFex2 came out there were always a bunch of guys with no shirts on sweating over that machine

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:53 am

i remember the good-ol days when i lived in rotterdam and actually had a decent arcade close to school, just when SFex2 came out there were always a bunch of guys with no shirts on sweating over that machine

I can't think of a better reason to go to the arcades

Damn the industry for dying

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sat May 12, 2007 1:45 am

An arcade operator can buy a new IIDX machine, or he can buy like.... a car.

Not many of them in the Great White North here...

Ozymandiaz1260 · Post by **Ozymandiaz1260** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:10 am

sven666 wrote: you never see pro-DDR players take on 10 songs in a row.

I've played DDR nonstop for nine hours straight. And yeah, IIDX machines are like twenty thousand mother fucking dollars.

SFKhoa · Post by **SFKhoa** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:51 am

iatneH wrote:An arcade operator can buy a new IIDX machine, or he can buy like.... a car.

Not many of them in the Great White North here...

There's only TWO IIDX machines in the entire fucking country. I happen to live 1 hour away from one of them.

As for the DDR issue... 10 songs in a row? Do nonstop courses count?

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:45 am

SFKhoa wrote:There's only TWO IIDX machines in the entire fucking country. I happen to live 1 hour away from one of them.

Heh, and I live about 45 minutes away from the other one. Still can't be arsed to go frequently though.

LOL at IIDX machine price. BEAUTIFUL monitors on those though, and lovely sound system.

Ozymandiaz1260 · Post by **Ozymandiaz1260** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:10 am

iatneH wrote:BEAUTIFUL monitors on those

There used to be an 8th Style in Goodlettsville, TN, but the guy didn't know about voltage differences in Japanese machines so there was this massive black blob in the upper left corner of the screen and it smelled like melting plastic whenever you played

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:04 am

I suspect there are some pinball collectors out there who might disagree with your assessment.

Ever since Williams got out of the business, the price of the Williams/Bally tables has gone through the roof, especially for the more desirable tables. A decent early to mid 90s table (something like Twilight Zone or Addams Family) could be had for somewhere in the range of $1,000-1,500 back around 1997-1998 or so. Nowdays you'd be lucky to get that same table for $3,000. That doesn't even figure in the space that would be required for a pinball collection...

Darius11 · Post by **Darius11** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:37 am

I just can't keep up with the pcb exscusives anymore they cost way more than next gen elite or ps3 which is just isn't fair. There are a few i want and know a lot of you already know i want ketseui ( the last time i brought that one up i got flamed pretty badly). I really want mushi 2, becuase the first one on the ps2 in my opinion was a major achivement.
Plus epgulada 2 looks awesome the first one was another great port.

one last thing the guy who was talking about neo geo (give them a little slack they have been around since 1990, they made some really great games, be honest how many of you out there outside of the shooter gods in japan have beaten veiwpoint on one ship? The graphics were so ahead of there :(time and i don't own the one version that is worth the most the mvs).

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:56 am

Darius11 wrote: be honest how many of you out there outside of the shooter gods in japan have beaten veiwpoint on one ship?

actually the japanese shooter gods use the respawn point before the last boss to milk the game pretty badly (very boring to watch anyways)... but i get your point, its a hard game.

Darius11 · Post by **Darius11** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:32 pm

Actually i was also wondering if there was any horizontal shmups out now i may have not heard about as far as pcb boards go. It seems there all vertical.

I an not complaining zanac was and guradian legend(what happened to that dedicated website that was a link here)?Were my teenage glory day games. And as far as vertical pcbs go Batrider and
guwange were 2 of my personal favorites years ago. I still don't own vertical universal jamma machine but years ago a guy was was auctioning a jamma cocktail that started 99.00 dollars and wound up going for allmost 2,000 dollars!

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:15 pm

sven666 wrote:
Darius11 wrote: be honest how many of you out there outside of the shooter gods in japan have beaten veiwpoint on one ship?
actually the japanese shooter gods use the respawn point before the last boss to milk the game pretty badly (very boring to watch anyways)... but i get your point, its a hard game.

I think boagman can 1cc if not 1lc this game. He is a Viewpoint mistro! He is playing the AES version.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:25 pm

I think it can be extremely expenisve, but only if you take it to the extreme. Although I think of myself as a shmup fan, I know im only really a casual one. If you ignore the 'hardcore' routes like Dreamcast, Saturn and (ulp) pcbs, and just stick to MAME and the PS2 holy trinity (DOJ, ESPGaluda and Mushi), and maybe a couple of the choicer GC efforts (Ikaruga, shiki 2 and radio allergy) you'll spend less than £100 and still have more pink blobs to dodge than you now what to do with.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:36 pm

ON TOPIC:

Shoot them ups are expensive. For fucks sake man! I paid $94.95 for Zanac X Zanac, $100 for Radiant Silvergun, and get this...... I paid $158 for Eliminate Down

and $206 for Recca

Pretty stupid aren't I? Like Ken Kutaragi says "work extra hours to afford the shit" - thats what I do I work 50+ hours a week and buy games

Look at prices for Last Hope LE and Border Down! What the F?!?

Then step into highbrow territory and go pcb.....

Darius11 · Post by **Darius11** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:11 pm

My buying of video games goes in spurts but, i will say this i can't afford the prices new jamma boards anymore, but years ago they were not this exspensive the most i ever paid for board was about the same price as new aes games were going for years ago. The prices have all gone up so i pray for ports of everything. I have never done emulators on my computer but, a good friend of mine knows how to do it and he has played thousands of games.
One last thing: recca for the famicom still eludes me i was going it a couple of years ago but something went wrong and missed my chance.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:57 pm

Just buy a few high quality games and learn try to master them. I mean, older and /or rarer shmup (or those just high in demand like RSG) might be pretty costy, but you don´t need to buy three games a week to just play them through and dump them afterwards.

I vaguely remember some shmup player once mentioned how you have lots of time but little money when you´re a kid, so you spend a lot of your time playing only a few games, but as you get older and have (hopefully!) more money, you can buy more games but don´t have as much time for them.
Top players play a certain games for years and years - paying 150 bucks on RSG or something similar is actually a very good value for your money if you really sink your teeth into it.

If you are a collector, however... why not just switch to porcelain cows or something that is easier to come by

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:54 am

Shmups have been the most expensive VG genre for years now; since, like, the late 90's.

It's nothing new. And it'll continue to get more expensive as long as we continue to see fewer releases each year. Can't do anything about it.

Squirrel · Post by **Squirrel** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:48 am

Collecting wise, Atari 2600 and NES still hold as the highest costing. Nintendo World Championships cart, and a complete in box Quadrun, or complete Magicard, or basically anything 10 rarity, including Atlantis II, sears picture label superman, and more, those can easily reach 1k+.

Ozymandiaz1260 · Post by **Ozymandiaz1260** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:18 am

Guys, seriously. You can buy a Beatmania IIDX 1st style machine for about three thousand. Konami is trying to sell Gold (fourteenth style) machines in America for twenty thousand. That means that the data is seventeen thousand dollars. A DDR first mix machine is worth about two thousand. American arcades are paying Betson fifteen thousand dollars for DDR SuperNova machines. The rhythm genre is by far the most expensive...

Squirrel · Post by **Squirrel** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:28 am

Ozymandiaz1260 wrote:Guys, seriously. You can buy a Beatmania IIDX 1st style machine for about three thousand. Konami is trying to sell Gold (fourteenth style) machines in America for twenty thousand. That means that the data is seventeen thousand dollars. A DDR first mix machine is worth about two thousand. American arcades are paying Betson fifteen thousand dollars for DDR SuperNova machines. The rhythm genre is by far the most expensive...

That's whey you buy the 1st mix machines and buy expansion discs, or just gut them, stick a pc in there, and turn the ddr machine into a stepmania machine, or stick a ps2 in the beatmania machine, hack the controls, and play happy sky.

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:19 am

Ozymandiaz1260 wrote:Guys, seriously. You can buy a Beatmania IIDX 1st style machine for about three thousand. Konami is trying to sell Gold (fourteenth style) machines in America for twenty thousand. That means that the data is seventeen thousand dollars. A DDR first mix machine is worth about two thousand. American arcades are paying Betson fifteen thousand dollars for DDR SuperNova machines. The rhythm genre is by far the most expensive...

1st Style and GOLD do not run on the same hardware. Besides, you have to factor in shipping costs if you're buying a big bulky music game from overseas (and sites like channelbeat don't always deliver the games in the condition they claim them to be in)

$15k for Supernova cabinets is a colossal ripoff though, especially since they're somehow of lower quality than the old DDR cabinets that have been making the rounds in arcades.

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