shmups.system11.org

With all the Cave games I've played (DP, DDP, Ibara, EspGaluda) I've never been able to really get into them (with the exception of Galuda, which is my fave game from them); the bullet patterns can be pretty, but that's about it. The levels and bosses just don't feel all that creative to me.
I still would love to play Guwange, Dangun, and Progear.

With Psikyo, the only miss they've had is Sol Divide. Everything else I love; their games just have so much more character and diverse levels.

So, the age old debate begins, AGAIN!

PS hey it could have been a TFV thread.

...

you should work for Fox News

My favorite Fox News story was election night 2006. They couldn't bring themselves to say the Dems were winning so their headline read -

"One Party is Winning the Night"

What a bunch of jackasses over there.

I voted for Psyiko. Love Cave, but Psyiko is more in line with my age in terms of my slow reflexes.

Actually, this is surprisingly tough. As I get older and skills deteriorate Psikyo games become more intimidating to me. Cave's offer a respite with their masses of slow moving bullets/illusion of challenge. And they also have scoring systems, maybe two of which are good.

Psikyo:
-GB2, Strikers 2, ZG2, DB

Cave:
-DOJ, DDP, Dangun, Guwange... I might even consider Galuda as playable. And never played Ketsui.

Slight edge to Cave.


What?

What old debate? Everybody loves Cave, and though the aesthetics of their games usually are of very high quality, it's ofcourse the gameplay that made them so popular. Try to look beyond design and themes, you'll notice that Strikers 1945 is even more drab than it looks.

I HATE Psikyo. Really. I like (no, not "like" only "not hate") only Strikers 45plus and 99.

And i like all of Cave game. And i love mushi

It's all just a matter of taste I guess.
I like the Psikyo games more myself.
But then again I've got excellent taste

Same here. Used to like Psikyo's, but don't anymore. The bullets are too fast, and I really don't like being pointblanked.

There's a sizeable faction on here who probably want a word with you on that.

Preference depends on your preferred gameplay style, methinks...while some of Psikyo's stuff (especially later on) somewhat resembles Cave's signature "bullet hell" style, the bullets tend to be faster and your hitbox larger, making precision placement and memorization much more essential to survival than most of Cave's games, in which you can "wing it" a bit and still get through an area even if you're not familiar with it. On the flipside, Cave's scoring systems tend to be more complicated and less forgiving, while Psikyo's, though not necessarily "easier" to take advantage of, tend to be less intimidating to wrap one's head around, and less likely to ruin your run because of a single mistake.

There are other notable differences to consider (random stages, rank management, etc.), but I consider the above two to be the Big Ones: personally, I'm not a big fan of memorization-heavy games (at least when it's tied to survival, as opposed to scoring), so I tend to prefer Cave's stuff. Plenty of others don't mind it, though, and might prefer Psikyo for any number of reasons: I might not agree, but hey, variety's the spice of life, and all that.

So no more "Cave sucks" from Rob? Interesting.

DDP and Ibara are both on my top 25. Guwange is also quite interesting to me.

Great stuff, but none has had the addictive character, for me, of DB, GB2, and the Strikers. Vote for Psikyo. Since DB is my favorite game, period, the choice is pretty straightforward for me.

Psikyo shmups are more easier to understand and play than Cave shmups.

Just about all of Psikyo shmups has a simple scoring system with fast moving bullets.

I played Strikers 1945 first and then DoDonPachi in school one time (on my laptop). People perfer Strikers since the bullet patterns are more easier to understand than Cave shmups. Cave shmups to me are more for the hardcore shmup fan, because I can never 1CC a Cave shooter (but if I try I can 1cc a Psikyo shmup).

I perfer the manic shooting style from Video System/Psikyo shmups than the bullet hell Cave shooters.

Also playing a Psikyo shmup makes you feel it's possible to 1CC it.

I vote for Raizing.

Seconded! (We are great!)

In my opinion...

CAVE>Raizing>Psikyo

Psikyo-bashing is a personal hobby of mine, but they did make solid games (even if they were all the same.) Of course, there's no way in hell they can compete with Cave's ingenuity.

Psikyo>Raizing>Cave

From what I've played, I'm going to have to agree.

BUT! Psikyo shump have stupid 1cc - only memorization, no skill. When you play first time, you die in 1 on 2 level (it right for me), not because you play bad, only because bullet too fast.
When i play Cave game first time, i can rich boss 2 or even boss 3 with crap score. Cave shumps are more friendly for shumps gamers, imo.

Psikyo's shooters do require skill.

That's my take as well.

They just feel more creative.

Again, take note I've only played what I mentioned.
I need some Dangun Feveron in my life.

I need to start a "DDP sucks" crew.

If ESPGaluda is generally the recommeneded entry-point for would-be Cave beginners then what is the Psikyo equivalent?
For the few Psikyo shmups that I have played (only maybe 30 mins or so of each), there didn't seem to much of a discernable difference in difficulty, at least to me. Or was this more down to the memorization factor?
From what I have played so far though I would say Cave>Psikyo, mainly due to having played many/much more of Cave's offerings and the sometimes seemingly too-fast bullet speeds in Psikyo shmups.

Cave games require much more memorization when you consider scoring systems. DOJ stage chaining = no skill to P_HAT. Memorize first, skill later.

(Duh.)


I would say creativity is not a strong suit for Psikyo. They are more about consistency, simplicity, tradition, etc. The stages last 1 minute apiece, lots of drones and a few larger targets every time. Lots of symmetrical enemy placement. Largely irrelevant environments, no real surprises.

[quote="g19"]If ESPGaluda is generally the recommeneded entry-point for would-be Cave beginners then what is the Psikyo equivalent?[quote]

Gunbird 2, preferably the DC version.

I agree, but Fighter17 talk about 1cc, for my 1cc in Cave game easier.

Also I like the fact that every boss turns out to be a robot in his second form.

Those transformations were great. A lot of creativity went into these transformation bosses.

Cave.

Definately Cave. The games seem to require alot less memorazation, and you can kick ass and doge hundreds of bullets at the same time. It really just represents the fun of shumps to me.

Thirded. Raizing for life.

Raizing > Psykio > Cave

I'd say something, but it might raise my rank.