What attracts you to your favourite shmup(s)?

auryn · Post by **auryn** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:22 pm

first time I start a thread here... I got the idea while reading the discussion topic for the top 25 this year.

I was wondering what it is that you think makes a shmup a favourite?
it's obviously a combination of factors... but in the interest of scientific inquiry into the psychology of SHMUP fandom/addiction, I'd like to elaborate a bit:

- how important is the presentation to you as opposed to gameplay? (would ikaruga be as popular if it consisted of wireframe graphics? probably not... neither would DDP be as popular if it looked like space invaders) Can a game be very stylized, abstract or outlandish and still appeal to you?

- what about the setting/theme? do you prefer fantasy themed, scifi, or military? how important is this to you? i.e. are you deterred to the point of not playing shmups in a setting that doesn't appeal to you, even though the gameplay may be quite good?

- what about style in general? I read some comments discussing whether certain shmups could be called "cute", and some comments lamenting that the "cuter" shmups never seem to be as popular as the more "serious" ones? How would DDP fare if it featured elves and goblins as protagonists?

This last point is especially interesting to me, as it seems to me that most shmups could not possibly be called serious or realistic (how realistic is one lone ship demolishing an entire army IRL?!). Yet on the other hand shooting games that don't take themselves seriously, are very abstract, or have an explicit fantasy setting don't seem to do so well on the top 25?

some thoughts would be much appreciated!

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:25 am

- Visuals

eye candy, good explosions are always an attention getter.

- music

I am a sucker for great music, G Rev, Treasure, Compile, Technosoft...I love u.

- finally, gameplay...most important. After looks and music I'll finally play it, but if the gameplay is not solid...forget it.

It'll collect dust or I'll sell it. Most of the time,, I'll try before buying...but here lately since the shmup drought, I've been just snatching up sh*t as soon as it comes out.

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:30 am

At first tight controls, exciting action and maybe appealing visuals and sound. But my favorite shmups all have that "just one more round" syndrome. So that you often feel the urge to come back to this game.

EDIT:
To awnser your quetions above:

1.)
The visuals are good to get you interested into a game in the first place. The visual/gameplay balance really depends on the game. For instance I personally don't find the presentation of Giga Wing that hot, still it is one of my absolute favorite shmups because ot it's gameplay. On the other hand, I think I wouldn't like Einhänder that much if the general presentation wasn't that outstanding. It still offers good gameplay but the very stylish graphics, interesting designs and awesome sounds makes it a better experience.

2.)
I can go with any theme, more important thn the theme itself is the kind of implementation. Even if maybe dark scifi is my favorite theme, I prefer a well made cute'em up over an uninspired scifi one. Originality and it's visual/accustic implementation will determine if I like the theme of a game. But that said, I don't think the theme is THAT important.

3.)
Would be depending on how the game would feel in detail. But offcourse some people don't like cute games, while on the other hand some others find them more appealing. I personally don't like the millitary theme so much, but it wouldn't keep me from playing shmups with that setting.

If you are asking because you wanna create a shmup project, don't be afraid to do an unusual style. This will give your game personality and it will stick out as something different. There will always people be that hate it for it's style, but other people will like it just that way.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:41 am

Well-presented boss introductions and overdramatic fights

SFKhoa · Post by **SFKhoa** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:45 am

Music and the special effects. "Demo Attracts" exists for a reason in arcade games.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:50 am

Beyond the obvious, a feeling that the game will never be beaten (goes for the top few on my list). Gameplay >> presentation, although an appealing style will not be denied. I don't think Gunbird 2 or Mars Matrix have great graphics, but I think they are comforting in a way that Shikigami no Shiro II* could never be.

*example of hideous game

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:52 am

I can deal with mediocre graphics if the gameplay is tight, but bad music is unforgiveable.

That's the reason I can never get into the Raiden Fighters series. They're really great games, except that the music makes me want to shoot myself after about 2 minutes. Really a shame!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:05 am

auryn wrote:Yet on the other hand shooting games that don't take themselves seriously, are very abstract, or have an explicit fantasy setting don't seem to do so well on the top 25?

I think this is mostly coincidental. Most shooters are space, military, etc. generic stuff. This is especially the case in "modern" shooters (the kind that are favored now). Generic anime/space stuff is safer and unless the developer has a consistent fanbase as Cave does they probably won't bet the farm (haha!) on a pig shooter. Ex. developer of Cutey Fatty, where are you now?

There are few cute 'em ups with any substance. I think that is why they are not deserving of being near the top 25.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:29 am

This is a really interesting topic imho. I'd say for me it's good weapon balance, good enemy design, varied levels with varied shot patterns, and a fun scoring system. Control gimmicks help if the level design or scoring makes full use of it, but I tend to dislike games in which you must exclusively use a gimmick weapon for whatever reason. Icing on the cake is music and then graphics. Games *can* be cute enough to turn me off, but most cute 'em ups don't really reach that level.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:42 am

auryn wrote:(would ikaruga be as popular if it consisted of wireframe graphics? probably not... neither would DDP be as popular if it looked like space invaders) Can a game be very stylized, abstract or outlandish and still appeal to you?

On the doujin level, stuff like Noiz2sa and rRootage are pretty popular...would I be willing to pay 50 bucks for it? Probably not, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the game just because of its looks. "Context," for lack of a better word, is a factor, at least for me.

are you deterred to the point of not playing shmups in a setting that doesn't appeal to you, even though the gameplay may be quite good?

About the only types of shmups which I pretty much refuse to play are hentai ones, and in most cases they're not about the gameplay anyways.

Otherwise the "theme" isn't a huge deal to me.

How would DDP fare if it featured elves and goblins as protagonists?

In my personal case, the best would get even better.

This last point is especially interesting to me, as it seems to me that most shmups could not possibly be called serious or realistic (how realistic is one lone ship demolishing an entire army IRL?!). Yet on the other hand shooting games that don't take themselves seriously, are very abstract, or have an explicit fantasy setting don't seem to do so well on the top 25?

I think most people can pretty easily acknowledge that "realism" doesn't have a heckuva lot of presence in the genre to begin with...I'd say Rob has at least a partial point in saying that a lot of shmups which put a great deal of emphasis on the "theme" fail to stand out in terms of gameplay, though not always. The fact is, though, that developers only have so much time to devote to so many things, and rarely does everything turn out golden.

Off to the side, accessibility is a big attractor for me...I like games which aren't too hard to get the basic hang of, but still take a lot of time and effort to really master.

Belmont · Post by **Belmont** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:37 am

Gameplay>Graphix>score system

Ok first thing i have to say is any game that you loose all power-ups when you die = suckage . I hate when you die and have no chance of survival after it.

Second thing i have to say is vodka shots are bad for everytthing

Post by **Icarus** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:17 am

Good gameplay.
Some kind of depth (scoring, strategy, whatever) that encourages returning play.
Some frustration is fine, as long as I don't get the urge to put my fist through the screen after five minutes of play. Challenging, but not really annoying.
Pictures of sexy, scantily-clad anime girls are a welcome bonus.

gavin19 · Post by **gavin19** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:44 am

One quality I always admire is any shmup that can be played how you want to play it instead of forcing you to play a certain way. Example, Radiant Silvergun (disclaimer - I do like it though), forces you to chain to power-up weapons, but without doing so the later levels are nigh-on impossible. Also shmups where playing for score actually makes things easier (and more fun) eg. Espgaluda, Radilgy.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:48 am

Multi-jointed and multi-parted bosses.

Fun boss fights.

Lots of bullets.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:51 am

To me it's a combination of challenge and fairness.. dying and knowing that it was 100% my fault, and constantly improving through play. I also like games with flexible scoring systems - that is, games where scoring is really an indicator of overall performance and where the points are not concentrated into 2 or 3 scenes in the game.

auryn · Post by **auryn** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:34 am

cool, quite a few interesting replies here...

I was out of the shmupping game for about 10 years and recently I got back into it after discovering MAME. I am surprised and astounded (and delighted!) at how my fave game genre has developed itself. While most other game genres (RPG, RTS, FPS) seem to have taken a turn toward (graphical) realism, shmups have remained very stylized, in some cases almost to the point of a being hypnotizing and quite trippy experience to play (cave, touhou, kenta cho for example) - shmups seem to be unique in this approach to game presentation.

how many other people here feel that the whole "phantasmagoria of flashing lights" thing is still one of the major attractors in shmups?

Most of the newer shmups that I've played seem to have quite fluid and finely tuned gameplay (at least compared to most older shmups I used to play on my Amiga), so it seemed to me that presentation/setting must be a decisive factor in determining which one is your fave... that's kinda where my questions were coming from. Still, a lot of people cite gameplay as being most important, so maybe I haven't played enough of the new games yet to feel the subtle nuances in gameplay...

music is another interesting point that has been raised... I gotta say that a lot of otherwise cool games (sadly) feature some pretty tasteless music. It's the only factor that I feel has kind of deteriorated since my amiga days... It can really put me off a game if I feel the music doesn't fit the game. Raiden III and Raiden Fighters are IMHO indeed good examples with their hyperactive euro-rave; some slow military dirge or deep pulsing techno would have worked better. DDP's wailing guitars get on my nerves after a while too... and both Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga feature this kind of pompous heroic ochestral music which I feel is totally out of place in a detailed futuristic setting... IMHO some equally futuristic techno/ambient hybrid would have worked much better. Still, a lot of games get it right though IMHO... Guwange, Mahou, Kenta Cho, Pulstar level 2 music. Music appreciation is very subjective though, so lots of IMHO's are in place here...

another thing I miss from my Amiga days are equipment shops like in blood money and xenon 2... I always liked having lots of different weapons and configurations to mess about with. Any ideas why this concept was abandoned?

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:03 am

IMHO some equally futuristic techno/ambient hybrid would have worked much better.

Interesting! I tend to think the idea that "obtusely electronic = futuristic" has been largely disproven by these very games (and far more effectively by the Alien films and Super Metroid, etc).

Apart from the gameplay, which we should always expect to be precision-based if nothing else, I think art direction, and its psychological impact, is a notable factor in my enjoyment. I can certainly enjoy games whose artistic goals don't interest me in the slightest, but the ones that become my all-time favourites (X-Multiply, for example) tend to have very singular atmospheres, music and backgrounds.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:09 am

tempting pedophilia artwork!

naah gameplay is no 1 and visuals no2, without either the game falls short of greatness but can still be a good blast.

i dislike cute and humorus artwork alot which actually keeps me away from games like parodius, i just dont enjoy playing them, i dont find them funny, just ridiculous and that kills my interest.

*sigh*

the allett · Post by **the allett** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:47 pm

Gameplay, challenge, music then graphics.

Tigershark · Post by **Tigershark** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:18 pm

Good level design, a reasonable learning curve, thumping music and loud explosions. That's all you need!

Aquas · Post by **Aquas** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:44 am

Obstacles and opponent structures that get in your way make a better shmup to me. U.N. Squadron (with the narrow cave level, and the stage with the napalm planes and the high rock formations are pretty cool. I think the interactive pleasure and spontaneous danger derived from a horizontal shooter is better than what the vertical can offer (or has offered, being a sort of unconventional view... looking down upon structures seems to be a confusing way to present landscape, but can be pulled off.) So yeah, level design.

I also quite enjoy having a diverse arsenal at my disposal.

It seems to me there is a gap between going for high scores, and 1cc'ing, which can be off-putting for a shmup. Like the Cave games that encourage chaining. I guess it depends what you get off of more... big numbers or big... bosses?

I was awed by the atmosphere and perspective changes in Einhander (I tried it today for a buck at a local gamestore!) and the music seemed to really fit it's dark setting. I agree that the phantasmagoria of a shmup is genuinely casually desired. Explosions are always cool. Gradius V always blows me away with the boss explosions. I'm just like, "WHOOOOOAAAA!" You know what I mean?

skink · Post by **skink** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 pm

1. Gameplay (tight controls, good weapons, good level design)
2. Scoring (fun and challenging scoring system)
3. Difficulty (the harder the better, keeps me coming back for more)
4a. Soundtrack (must have a sound track that really fits the style of the game)
4b. Style (not too cutesy, not too outer space. I like steampunk type stuff the best)

What games stand out as my favorites? (in no particular order)

- Ibara
- Progear
- Espgaluda
- Mars Matrix

HeWhoGoverns · Post by **HeWhoGoverns** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:21 pm

Gameplay is the most important to me. If you can't play the game because the controls are bad, then what is the point of playing?

I am also a big fan of game mechanics. I really liked Gaiares for its weapon stealing pod, and Zero Wing with its neat little tractor beam. Ikaruga had no power ups what-so-ever, and its polarity based gameplay was really awesome as well.

Lastly, music is a big one for me as well. If a game has a bad soundtrack, I can't play it. It's one of the reasons I can't play Chaos Field. That bad techno music drives me nuts. Thunder Force has some really awesome music.

Ayanami · Post by **Ayanami** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:26 pm

My favourite shooters as of late have been games with simple score mechanics. Some times the complex stuff can be really frustrating. A lot of Cave games like Daiojou and Progear can drive you to the brink of insanity. But it just depends on your taste. I also really enjoy games that do really crative and cool stuff with the bosses and patterns.

HeLGeN-X · Post by **HeLGeN-X** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:56 pm

I defintely got to have good music, I like intense gameplay, good speed, and variable options or some type of special engine like absorb, reflect ETC.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:05 am

Like robotron, the holy three.

Although I spend a lot of time with Toaplan shmups, so I put gameplay (that is accessible to me) first. Music and visuals can be seen outside the game; I'm not going to play a crap game just for that.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:11 am

auryn wrote:Can a game be very stylized, abstract or outlandish and still appeal to you?

I find that more appealing, actually.

auryn wrote:what about the setting/theme? do you prefer fantasy themed, scifi, or military?

I prefer stuff that's wacky and/or abstract and/or cartoonish, but I know I'm in the minority. Military and space themes have been overdone and are usually too serious, given the nature of these games (more about that below).

auryn wrote:how important is this to you? i.e. are you deterred to the point of not playing shmups in a setting that doesn't appeal to you, even though the gameplay may be quite good?

That seems kinda petty. But I won't lie, it does bug me when a game I like has a theme I don't care for.

auryn wrote:how realistic is one lone ship demolishing an entire army IRL?!

It has always intrigued me that so many people prefer "serious" themed shmups even though the gameplay is so far removed from reality. From another perspective, it'd be like making a cell-shaded flight sim or a Madden game with anime sprites... it just doesn't match.

Maybe that's why I like cute/wacky graphics. I'd rather a game bask in its own ridiculousness than it take itself too seriously.

Edge wrote:I can go with any theme, more important thn the theme itself is the kind of implementation. Even if maybe dark scifi is my favorite theme, I prefer a well made cute'em up over an uninspired scifi one.

Exactly. I don't care for the pseudo-spiritual theme of Ikaruga, but I can at least appreciate it for being well done.

Rob wrote:Beyond the obvious, a feeling that the game will never be beaten

Knowing that other people have already crushed a score-based game (one life clear, no bombs, maximum theoretical score, etc.) can kill my motivation to play it, even though I'm not competing at that level. Something about the existence of a maximum limit bugs me, however far away it may be. Yet I play score-based games almost exclusively. I'm sure a shrink would have a field day with that.

Other thoughts, not based on any quotes:

- I don't care about music. If I like it, great. If I don't, it usually just fades away into the background as far as my ears are concerned. Worst-case scenario: play a damn CD.

- Cool power-ups, bosses, levels, scoring systems, etc. aren't all that important individually. It's how they all tie together that counts.

- I hate it when games demand absolute perfection, where one small mistake ruins your entire run (i.e., Guwange). It's one reason why I like Parsec47 so much... if you die, so what, you can always bounce back and rack up more lives.

- As always, I Hate Memorization.

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:23 am

What attracts you to your favourite shmup(s)?

Well let's see now.

- good background music/soundtrack

- detalied level designs

- nice and/or unique explosions, including bombs in-stock

- silky smooth gameplay/ship and enemy movement

- powerful and/or CRAZY guns/weapons (on your ship)

- lots of different colors

- rapid shot

- big (not small!) bosses

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:02 am

music can make me like a so-so game... Arrowflash.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:50 am

Something about the existence of a maximum limit bugs me,

Yeah, this is it. I don't like the idea of putting in the time, getting good, reaching the plateau (or close enough) and having to put it aside. It's more like a disposable RPG that way.

I really need to get around to those PC shooters. They sound more like what I'm looking for now. I think.

shmups.system11.org

What attracts you to your favourite shmup(s)?

What attracts you to your favourite shmup(s)?

Re: What attracts you to your favourite shmup(s)?

Re: What attracts you to your favourite shmup(s)?