Seperate weapon for ground targets?

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:34 am

I was just wondering if anyone actually likes a seperate ground shot for ground targets? It does seem more realistic but I think the game becomes a bit too complex that way. I think that Raiden did it right if you can see it it can be shot with the main weapon.

Your thoughts?

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:49 am

I assign shot and missle to the same button in Gradius-sis-sissz for the same reason. I don't like two regular kill buttons. I want one kill button. Then one nuke button where needed.

I don't think it's complecated gameplay. I'm just...lazier. I also prefer choosing Auto in Rayxxxxx, even if I know why I should choose the other.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:15 am

I meant in verticle shmups I chould have made that clear...

D · Post by D » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:26 am

Under defeat has done this the best. Your center weapon auto aims to the ground if there are targets there. (or perhaps it's the secondary weapons)
This is done so briliantly that it might not have even been noticed by everyone.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:35 am

Hate it in vertical shooters.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:20 am

Rob wrote:Hate it in vertical shooters.

Same here. I would enjoy Xevious or the TwinBee games a whole lot more without it.

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:23 am

I think it's shit, with one big exception; Salamander stage 4, where having a separate missile button allow for satisfying destruction of bunkers, also it's important for scoring well on the boss.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:35 am

I hate it mostly because ground fire is often weak and has a short range. It's bad enough when you can only fire one shot to the ground at a time...but it's even worse when you have to point-blank the friggin target...all the while dancing merrily through enemy fire that has no range limitations.

bVork · Post by **bVork** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:41 am

RayForce made great use of a (mostly) ground-targeting weapon.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:57 pm

I like it on XXMission and Flak Attack.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:25 pm

For me, it really depends on the game. A game like Xevious is fine, though I was never much of a fan. Some early 80's vert shmups relied too much on this mechanic & suffered for it. However, I think games like Layer Section (& sequels) benefited from this setup. I'd say most games, however, generally don't execute this well.

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:55 pm

Rob wrote:Hate it in vertical shooters.

Yes.

junkeR · Post by **junkeR** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:33 pm

I don't think it's all that bad.. I like blasting both ground and sky targets in the Twinbee games.

Koa Zo · Post by **Koa Zo** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:08 pm

D wrote:Under defeat has done this the best. Your center weapon auto aims to the ground if there are targets there. (or perhaps it's the secondary weapons)
This is done so briliantly that it might not have even been noticed by everyone.

this is worth mentioning again.
Under Defeat does it the best.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:24 pm

I also find it pretty annoying. The Twinbee series is the first thing that came to my mind and seeing as how its already been mentioned a couple of times it looks like not the only one.

Mark III · Post by **Mark III** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:36 pm

I don't mind it when it's done right like in Under Defeat and Soukyugerentai. But in most other games I could definately do without it.

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:26 pm

It works great in Xevious, which invented it. It's nice to be able to choose your shots rather than relying on hitting things randomly. However, no other game seemed to develop this mechanic any further or do it with as much fun. It's all about the whole game working together (balance?) rather than one feature being the focus.

Bombing does work better in horizontals generally, like Scramble & P47 Aces.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:36 pm

In verts its irritating sometimes...depends on the game and the controller/method.

Easy:

Soukyugerentai
Rayforce
Layer Section

Hard:

Under Defeat...why? Picking the correct weapon for the target, waiting for it to charge up...having to keep your eye on the meter and so forth makes it a bit tedious to use sometimes.

Didn't matter, I eventually got used to it...but it was a little tricky to be tactical with it at first.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:48 pm

I dislike it heavily in verts.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:05 am

Not much point IMO; the first game that came to mind was Raptor, where you'd always stock both air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons and switch when it was necessary. Sort of a hassle really.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:16 am

I understand it in Gradius because you can't shoot through hills and such but never liked it in Xevious.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:25 am

I'm not really a fan but it depends on the game and the frequency of how much the second button requires pressing.

Galactic Attack - I play this game with main gun depressed at all times (rapid fire) and constantly pressing the other button for the lockon lazer. Its pretty tedious and I don't care for it.

Raystorm - With the ability to lock on to an additional 8 targets (16 total), I seem to only press the lock on lazer button at small intervals and thus makes for a more enjoyed experience. Because of the additional ship in this game I am always using it and the game is in turn more enjoyable. I wish this ship was in the first game as I like the lay out of Galactic Attack better but the other ship makes Raystorm my favorite in the series!

Recca - Yes I know that its not ground targets here but this game has you use 2 buttons (when you have your 'options'). I am always holding down the button for the options - even when I don't have them - and then also holding down the main fire button unless I am charging my charge shot. So for the majority of the game I have 2 buttons pressed down.

So in conclusion, the less these old hands have to button press the more I enjoy it.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:50 am

Herr Schatten wrote:
Rob wrote:Hate it in vertical shooters.
Same here. I would enjoy Xevious or the TwinBee games a whole lot more without it.

Again in agreement. I hate that shit in general.

Sonic R: You're right, Recca is somewhat related. That's one thing that I thought could've been done better...really, they have the power-charge bomb, the secondary attack, and they could've done that all with one button and had one free for...well, I'm not sure what for. Something. Maybe a shield control mode.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:23 am

I love separate buttons for Xevious and Twinbee, where bombing is absolutely a key gameplay element. It adds a layer of depth, just like nowadays people like score multipliers and chaining. Besides, Xevious is so slow that if you don't even use a second button, where's the fun?

On the contrary, I usually put missiles and lasers in the same button in gradius. Since missiles tend to cover more ground there's no real need for separate button precision. Also nice is that unlike verts' bombing action you don't get a noise mess if you shoot them repeatedly.