scart to VGA?

[Strider77]

I was wondering if I could use this....

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BC-STVGYX0 ... B000G793E6

and take a scart cable and convert it to vga then feed it into my new transcoder (that i'm using to dislpay my dreamcast's VGA) to my HDTV??

I was thinking about using a scart to component converter to hook str8 into the TV.

Anymore advice on these ideas would be great!!
Thanks in advance.[/quote]

[Icarus]

I was thinking of using a SCART->VGA, but not for outputting to a HDTV, but rather for feeding a supergun videosignal to my capture card using a VGA->Composite scan convertor (the same one I'm using to record from MAME for the STGT replays).

I'll have to give this a look, the price is right. Thanks for the link. ^_-

[Strider77]

yeah i know i can now send vga to my hdtv fine with the new transcoder, but I think it might not be as simple as that. say if I took a saturn scart cable to my transcoder, something tells me the resolution of the source plays into it.... i'm not sure the transcoder would out put the signal.

here is a visual of what I'm thinking

saturn > scart > VGA > transcoder > HDTV

or

saturn > scart > component via a converter > HDTV

I wish I could just find a damned XRGB2 or 3 at a sane price

[elvis]

I was wondering if I could use this....

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BC-STVGYX0 ... B000G793E6

and take a scart cable and convert it to vga then feed it into my new transcoder (that i'm using to dislpay my dreamcast's VGA) to my HDTV??

No. This is a pin converter only. It us not an upscaler.

If you want an upscaler, you're going to have to bite the bullet and shell out for an XRGB style device. Note the cost difference - that's what you pay for the scaling circuitry. Anything that's as cheap as what you linked to above will merely be a socket converter. The signal itself just passes straight through.

[neorichieb1971]

I've got a scart-component transcoder and it works great on HDTV.

http://www.hometheatre.net.au/cyu2100.htm


It does not support audio, so a breakout convertor is required also -

http://www.nexxia.co.uk/Hi-Fi&TVaccesso ... CT-031.jpg

Short of that, you don't really have many options.[/url]

[zakk]

I was thinking of using a SCART->VGA, but not for outputting to a HDTV, but rather for feeding a supergun videosignal to my capture card using a VGA->Composite scan convertor (the same one I'm using to record from MAME for the STGT replays).

I'll have to give this a look, the price is right. Thanks for the link. ^_-

So wait...you're saying you''re willing go from a 15khz RGB signal, upconvert to a 31khz RGB signal, then turn that into 15khz composite? If you have to spend money on the 15khz->31khz step, why not just spend the money on an RGB->composite converter (JROK or similar)? Silly person!

[Icarus]

So wait...you're saying you''re willing go from a 15khz RGB signal, upconvert to a 31khz RGB signal, then turn that into 15khz composite? If you have to spend money on the 15khz->31khz step, why not just spend the money on an RGB->composite converter (JROK or similar)? Silly person!

1) I don't even know if it'll work, but short of hacking my supergun to pieces to see what the videosignal problem that we discussed is, I have no other ideas. ^_-

2) Its cheap.

3) What's a JROK? Is it affordable? (Tech noob here.)

4) Will it allow signal splitting to two different sources simultaneously? Is it easy to use?

5) Mind pointing me in the right direction?

[neorichieb1971]

This thread makes no sense at all. If the raw signal is 15khz, just send that 15khz signal to the HDTV.

[neorichieb1971]

So wait...you're saying you''re willing go from a 15khz RGB signal, upconvert to a 31khz RGB signal, then turn that into 15khz composite? If you have to spend money on the 15khz->31khz step, why not just spend the money on an RGB->composite converter (JROK or similar)? Silly person!

1) I don't even know if it'll work, but short of hacking my supergun to pieces to see what the videosignal problem that we discussed is, I have no other ideas. ^_-

2) Its cheap.

3) What's a JROK? Is it affordable? (Tech noob here.)

4) Will it allow signal splitting to two different sources simultaneously? Is it easy to use?

5) Mind pointing me in the right direction?

www.jrok.com

[Icarus]

Wow, that's... really not helpful at all.
What am I supposed to do with this thing?

Note: This is my supergun (almost, this is a slightly different design to mine). Note the SCART adaptor and the small size of the unit:

[zakk]

You just need to feed it the RGB signal. You'd have to split the scart, and strip one of the ends.

Alternately, I know there are versions that do it 'inline' with the jamma, so you'd plug it into the jamma board edge connector, then plug your supergun into the other end of the video board. I seem to recall they're kinda expensive tho. Can't remember where I saw it either, maybe arcadeshock?

[Icarus]

You mean this?
http://www.arcadeshock.com/Browse_Item_ ... nvertor%29

Nice. $299 though. I can't do "expensive" at the moment, hence looking for the cheaper solution. JROK and this inline solution is a last resort at the moment.

(That's a funny looking SCART adaptor next to the audio outputs.)

[neorichieb1971]

What exactly are you trying to do?

[D]

Strider77

I've got a scart-component transcoder and it works great on HDTV.

http://www.hometheatre.net.au/cyu2100.htm


It does not support audio, so a breakout convertor is required also -

http://www.nexxia.co.uk/Hi-Fi&TVaccesso ... CT-031.jpg

Short of that, you don't really have many options.[/url]

Strider77,
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but If I'm not mistaken than this is what you'd need for 15 Khz (non-VGA) signals
This I think might be great for anyone without a SCART input, but with Component inputs.
For Saturn, PS1, Supergun, DC lo-res games.
But indeed for that 31 Khz picture. I guess you'd need something expensive. The silly thing is that perhaps since the dc outputs 480P, wshouldn't it be possible to mod it to output HDMI 480P out? Hmmm, anyone ever thought of that? I mean not using the AV out port, but from the dc's inside guts somewhere the digital signal does get analogged right?
Strider77, since your tv sounds new I guess it supports at least 480 progresive.

Wait, only now I understand (I'm a bit slow)
Normally the SCART RGB signal to component converter is supposed to handle 15Khz signals. Like the normal DC output via scart rgb.
Now what you wanna know is if you mod the dc so that a 31khz signal is outputted through the scart cable, if you can still use the scart to component converter.
Are there any scart to component converters that can handle 480P (31khz) VGA-quality signals?
This way we wouldn't even need to use VGA cables and we wouldn't even need a vga input on our tv.
I guess my tv does not support SCART 31Khz inputs because when you boot with a vga cable and then you put in the SCART cable then the picture is all garbled. But I guess my tv should be able to handle 31Khz component signals.
Great topic, hope I didn't confuse anyone, if so, let me know I'd be happy to elaborate.
EDIT if your tv also has two seperate Hsync and Vsync inputs than I think you can just use this cable: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:hi ... =clnk&cd=3
But I guess this is not component video, but RGB video.
source: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:hi ... =clnk&cd=3
My tv does not have these hsync and vsync inputs though

[neorichieb1971]

Buying an upscan convertor for a HDTV is pointless as I said before. Its not going to put something in place that wasn't already there.

Getting a signal from VGA to HDMI is virtually impossible because HDMI relies on HDCP which VGA does not support. Only option is to buy a TV with a VGA input, but 16:9 Ikaruga in yoko doesn't really appeal to me.


Best option is what I said

Console > RGB-Component transcoder > HDTV

On my supergun it works perfectly, its crisp and bright, works flawlessly and apart from stretched 16:9 is about as good as your gonna get. I give it 10/10 for performance. I've even had people ask me send the unit to them to compare to the JROK's and what not, and they said it was comparable if not better. For the non techie people out there, you can't get any easier, its plug n play.

The only benefit my supergun has in this is that I have RCA outputs for audio on my SG, which means I don't need the break out adaptor.

[Strider77]

Getting a signal from VGA to HDMI is virtually impossible

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1310

dvi is hdmi... a simple cable make the two interchangeable. so i think it's clear you can go from VGA to HDMI pretty easy.

i can't tell if your being a prick about your suggestions or you are referring to other posts in this thread i started. i'm figuring out as I go with this. i am not trying to improve or upscale anything with going from scart to component. i just want to hook up my saturn and other systems with something better than S-video. so i thought using scart cables would be a good idea and vigured if you could go from vga to component, you could go from scart to component.

my tv is new and does a very good job of converting SD resolutions over to it's native resolutions. it's the most expensive and newest hdtv sony has at that size. PS2 games look great via component dispite not being at least 400P (progressive). when i used s-video the ps2 looked bad but just going to component made a huge and totally exceptable difference. so i figure i'd see what i could do to get component out of some other systems. i figured scart was a good idea and could be converted over to component. after doing some research i know this can be done.

the only reason i was toying with the idea of going from scart to vga is b/c i could put it into my transcoder as vga and get it to component and be able to use the transcoder to adjust the H and V size/position. that and i thought it might be less expensive to get scart to vga (i'm not sure if a simple cord would work or an actual converter of some sort was needed and that's one of the 2 questions i strated this thread for). i'm not gonna go this route i think but it was just something i was thinking out loud about.

[Strider77]

Icarus.... that's a really cool supergun. it's so small, hmm seeing that might be a bad thing. space is a issue and this is so small. ugh i don't need to get into pcbs now.

[D]

Getting a signal from VGA to HDMI is virtually impossible

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1310

dvi is hdmi... a simple cable make the two interchangeable. so i think it's clear you can go from VGA to HDMI pretty easy.

i can't tell if your being a prick about your suggestions or you are referring to other posts in this thread i started. i'm figuring out as I go with this. i am not trying to improve or upscale anything with going from scart to component. i just want to hook up my saturn and other systems with something better than S-video. so i thought using scart cables would be a good idea and vigured if you could go from vga to component, you could go from scart to component.

my tv is new and does a very good job of converting SD resolutions over to it's native resolutions. it's the most expensive and newest hdtv sony has at that size. PS2 games look great via component dispite not being at least 400P (progressive). when i used s-video the ps2 looked bad but just going to component made a huge and totally exceptable difference. so i figure i'd see what i could do to get component out of some other systems. i figured scart was a good idea and could be converted over to component. after doing some research i know this can be done.

the only reason i was toying with the idea of going from scart to vga is b/c i could put it into my transcoder as vga and get it to component and be able to use the transcoder to adjust the H and V size/position. that and i thought it might be less expensive to get scart to vga (i'm not sure if a simple cord would work or an actual converter of some sort was needed and that's one of the 2 questions i strated this thread for). i'm not gonna go this route i think but it was just something i was thinking out loud about.

I fucked the thread up, sorry Strider77, what neorichieb1971 said wasn't aimed at you. I am to blame with my replies.
To make everything clear to everybody, this thread is about:
1 getting 480p (31Khz) into your tv when you don't have a VGA input and your console does not output in component like everything before the PS2.
2 getting 15Khz lo res RGB into your tv when your tv does not have scart RGB or any other RGB inputs and your console does not output in component.
DVI to HDMI is almost the same I guess, there are even cables with a DVI connector on one end and HDMI on the other end. I think the main difference is that HDMI also transfers digital audio and DVI not. Please corect me on this if it is wrong.
VGA to HDMI is very hard to accomplish since VGA is analog and HDMI is digital.
What I meant was if it would be possible to tap the digital signals (from a DC for instance) before the get converted into analog signals. But that question is so hi tech I doubt if anybody would be able to answer that
Threads like these are great, because we can all learn from each other's experiences and educate others in the process.
I'm turning into cable guy Me and my friend call each other cable guy when we see lots of cables at each other's houses.
Don't fight each other, I fucked the thread up

[Icarus]

What exactly are you trying to do?

Plug a supergun into a capture card and not get this.

[elvis]

This thread makes no sense at all. If the raw signal is 15khz, just send that 15khz signal to the HDTV.

Buying an upscan convertor for a HDTV is pointless as I said before. Its not going to put something in place that wasn't already there.

Buying an upscan converter is NOT pointless.

On many HDTVs there is an inbuilt upscan converter. However these are SLOW. Many of them introduce a half-second or worse lag between input and output.

When watching TV or a movie, this isn't a problem. You can always add a delay to the audio to make it sync with the picture, and nobody is the wiser.

When playing games, this sucks. A half-second delay between you pushing a button and some sort of reaction onscreen is life and death in shmups (or any video game for that matter).

*SOME* TVs have a "game mode" option, which decreases this delay. Some TVs also have decent internal upscan converters which do not cause lag.

*MOST* HDTVs have cheap upscan converters which are laggy, and are simply shocking for gaming.

Solution? Buy a good upscan converter. This will pre-scale the image to the native mode of the HDTV and allow for quick and lag-free gaming.

No, it won't magically make the image better. As mentioned, upscalers can't add quality. However some of them can do nice things like add in artificial scanlines to cover the line-doubling, which can be a nice touch if you like that sort of thing. The XRGB and other good quality upscalers are particularly useful in that regard to HDTV owners.

Getting a signal from VGA to HDMI is virtually impossible

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1310

dvi is hdmi... a simple cable make the two interchangeable. so i think it's clear you can go from VGA to HDMI pretty easy.

DVI is a digital picture. You cannot convert analogue VGA to digital DVI.

You are confusing cables with a signal format. A pretty common mistake in these forums, it seems.

There are essentially two types of DVI cable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI#Connector

DVI-D is pure digital. It only has enough pins to carry a standard DVI digital signal.

DVI-I carries a digital signal, and with it a parallel analogue signal on extra pins (typically VGA and greater resolutions/frequencies).

A DVI-I cable DOES NOT "convert" analogue VGA to digital DVI. The item generating the signal (say for instance, a PC video card) needs to generate and send both signals over the same cable.

HDMI does not carry analogue signals at all. It is pure digital. If you have a DVI-I cable with an anologue signal attached, and then use a DVI-HDMI converter, your analogue signal is lost. You cannot get analogue VGA to display on a HDMI/digital device using just cables.

The only way to generate a DVI/HDMI/Digtal signal from an analogue/VGA signal is to use some very expensive equipment. A simple $10 cable will not do this.

[zakk]

You still need to be careful WHICH upscaler you buy. Even external upscalers lag, and often the higher end ones are more likely to lag than the cheaper stuff. The high end ones that use algorithms that require 2-4 frames of buffer will usually provide audio inputs+outputs and delay the audio to match the video delay. This of course does not help video games one bit.

If your goal is to bypass TV scaler lag, ask around before buying an upscaler. Or stick with the proven XRGB2/2+. It's fast and the picture is acceptable (but not as good as higher end stuff.)

[elvis]

Good advice. I should have mentioned that earlier.

More expensive doesn't always mean better. A lot of upscalers are made for movies, which as mentioned don't have issues with lag, as sound can always be delayed to match. Buying the wrong upscaler could indeed leave you in a worse spot than the on inside your TV already anyway, and that would suck.

Make sure you look at upscalers that are designed with video games in mind.

[neorichieb1971]

I still believe after everything that is said.. that if you want 15khz into HDTV in the best possible way. That it would be better to go my route.

For any application, having more than one conversion is overkill.

[Strider77]

To elvis....

If you look at the items description in that link I provided it says from analog vga to DIGITAL dvi. That's why I pasted the link.

[elvis]

To elvis....

If you look at the items description in that link I provided it says from analog vga to DIGITAL dvi. That's why I pasted the link.

Ah yes sorry, I missed that.

And yes, the price is what I'd expect to pay for that sort of device too.

[Strider77]

cool little device though regardless

[neorichieb1971]

$300 for a black screen.. GREAT!


Tutorial here -

DVI is a PC based connector. When flat screen LCD monitors came out they had a DVI input for PC usage only. Although DVI is compatible with HDMI as a lead/cable, it is not necessary compatible as a signal.

HDCP (High definition copyright protection) is embedded to all HDMI compatible TV's.. Without the HDCP signal embedded into the signal you won't get a picture on your TV because your TV wants the HDCP signal to show the picture.

When you use a XRGB3 or a Gefen analog to DVI convertor, it is not adding HDCP to the digital signal because it doesn't exist in the signal.

Therefore you will get a black screen. Therefore it is absolutely useless to you.

You can however, use it on a VGA monitor that has a DVI input.



All PS3's, DVD players, HD-DVD players have HDCP embedded into the signal for HDTV usage. The oppo DVD player outputs via DVI, but again HDCP compatibility is built in.

[elvis]

HDCP (High definition copyright protection) is embedded to all HDMI compatible TV's.. Without the HDCP signal embedded into the signal you won't get a picture on your TV because your TV wants the HDCP signal to show the picture.

When you use a XRGB3 or a Gefen analog to DVI convertor, it is not adding HDCP to the digital signal because it doesn't exist in the signal.

Therefore you will get a black screen. Therefore it is absolutely useless to you.

What the hell are you smoking man?

Yes, HDCP is an encryption scheme - more appropriately, a DRM system. The rest of what you say is utter shite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

Not all TVs have HDCP. The HDCP license is quite expensive, and many cheaper manufacturers provide HDMI TVs without HDCP certification.

If your HDMI TV is not HDCP compliant, it will not display any information from a HDCP enabled source. For most of us here today, that doesn't mean much. DVD and video games currently do not encode their signals with HDCP. This will change with the advent of HD-DVD, Blue-Ray, and the PS3. For now however (especially in the case of the Dreamcast, which is what this discussion is about) it is the case.

And in reverse, a HDCP compliant TV will not reject information from a non-HDCP digital source!

The VGA->DVI converter above does not add HDCP. Plugging this into a DVI->HDMI adaptor will also not add HDCP. Playing this on any HDMI capable TV, HDCP-capable or not will result in a working picture. No TV on earth will reject a non-HDCP encoded picture over HDMI (well, not yet anyway - I'm sure Sony will add that "feature" shortly).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Mate, it sounds like someone gave you half the story. Once again, I urge peope not to confuse a signal with a plug. HDCP is a signal. HDMI is a plug. One does not necessarily infer the other.

[neorichieb1971]

I stand corrected there. I thought my Oppo DVD was HDCP but it isn't.


As there wouldnt have been any other reason to implement it I thought it was purely compatibility.

But, XRGB3.. that doesnt work via DVI-HDMI right? If so why not?

You can buy TV's with VGA inputs on them. That would be cheaper than buying all this conversion stuff and tidier too. My next TV has a VGA input on it. Its a Sony Bravia.

Otherwise taking a analog RGB signal and converting to digital is well expensive for what its doing. And SCART does not output VGA 31khz in any shape or form.

[elvis]

But, XRGB3.. that doesnt work via DVI-HDMI right? If so why not?

Not owning an XGRB3, I can't say. But I would hazard a guess and say that if it is the case, then the XRGB3 is spitting out analogue-over-DVI-I, and not a true digital-over-DVI-D.

From what I see around both local and international retailers, a VGA->DVI-D converter is around $300. You pay for the circuitry that captures the analogue signal, and then re-encodes it in realtime as a digital signal.

The XRGB3 is around $300 also? Considering it is a full blown analogue upscaler, I would assume that it doesn't do analogue->digital conversion. If it did, it should be around double the price for the extra hardware needed internally.

Again, just guessing. The XRGB3 manual should state exactly what is being spat out over it's DVI connector.

Has anyone got a nice high-res shot of the XRGB3's DVI connector? That would certainly help in identifying the type of output it is producing - if it is a DVI-A, DVI-I or DVI-D connector?