Whats the story with Raizing/8ing?

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:48 pm

Does anyone know what the deal was? Was Raizing and 8ing completely different companies that just decided to work together, or were they a single company?

If they were seperate companies, did just Raizing go bankrupt or somthing? (I know that 8ing is still around, mostly releasing garbage)

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldnt find previous threads about it.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:55 pm

Around early 2000 8ing purchase out Raizing and ever since they were releasing crap.

Few Raizing people left and join Cave (like one of those senior programmers from the Raizing shooters worked on Ibara).

Raizing was developing the games while 8ing were publishing the games on the PCB format (or I think).

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:23 pm

Raizing = gold
8ing = turd
8ing absorbs Raizing, Raizing no more. *sniff* ;_;
Memory of Raizing lives on with Shinobu Yagawa, chief programmer of Garegga and others, now working at Cave (Ibara and Pink Sweets so far).

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:04 pm

There's also quite a bit of staff overlap with Raizing's Dimahoo and Takumi's early titles. Maybe that's where some of them moved?

mainpatr1 · Post by **mainpatr1** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:12 pm

8Ing did those dumb Bloody Roar fighting games for the PS1.

Raizing mainly did shmups.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:33 pm

I am not supposed to be posting here any more (Mushi was an exception), but damn it, I couldn't help myself.

8ing made the absolutely awesome Kururin games (here is my review of the first one). They were awesome. So please don't say they only make turds, or you'll make me cry.

eight · Post by **eight** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:26 pm

Okay, 8ing makes 90% turds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raizing

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:37 pm

Twiddle wrote:There's also quite a bit of staff overlap with Raizing's Dimahoo and Takumi's early titles. Maybe that's where some of them moved?

I'm guessing thats because Takumi had lots to do with CPS2 so Capcom got some of Takumi's staff to help Raizing out with Dimahoo?

icycalm wrote:I am not supposed to be posting here any more (Mushi was an exception), but damn it, I couldn't help myself.

8ing made the absolutely awesome Kururin games (here is my review of the first one). They were awesome. So please don't say they only make turds, or you'll make me cry.

Yeah I am a big fan of the Kururin games as well (never got a chance to play the gamecube one though), lets just hope they decide to to make a new one for DS or Wii or something instead of releasing their constant sea of mobile and Naruto games.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:03 pm

icycalm wrote:I am not supposed to be posting here any more

Why? Did I miss something while being absent for the last month?

Anyways, I didn`t know Yagawa actually joined Cave, I thought that was more of a "Cave featuring Raizing" thing. So Raizing got bought by 8ing, and then Cave made a shmup that is a Raizing game in the truest sense.

If I am not mistaken, Battle Bakraid has only a 8ing logo, missing the Raizing one, what`s up with that?

Kururin rules, I remember it being a very early GBA game and was the cheapest new GBA game I ever bought.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:05 pm

FrederikJurk wrote: Why? Did I miss something while being absent for the last month?

He got upset people made fun of a topic he made and then he put his "ignore list" in his signature. I'm sad the list is not there anymore.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:24 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:If I am not mistaken, Battle Bakraid has only a 8ing logo, missing the Raizing one, what`s up with that?

I think Bakraid was made before the 8ing/Raizing merger. Kinda sucks that they aren't making shmups anymore but those Naruto fighters on GC are still fun.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:01 am

mainpatr1 wrote:8Ing did those dumb Bloody Roar fighting games for the PS1.

The Bloody Roar games are actually really good, IMO. very uncomplicated and arcadey and easy to have fun with.

Great music by Manabu Namiki, as well!

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:12 am

I like the Bloody Roar games but I don't know if they're as simple as most people feel they are; the ring combo system used for certain characters starting from Bloody Roar 3 was fairly unique. Bloody Roar 4's beast meter=life system and all its infinite life implications were just silly though; supposedly, Hudson may have made the game themselves, which would explain why the game turned out mediocre.

Naruto, on the other hand, is probably the epitome of simplistic design.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:46 am

Raizing was made up of two programming teams. One team, the "founding" one, was made of ex-Compile programmers who wanted to keep doing shmups and thus left Compile. They made the Mahous and Sokyugurentai.
A second team was actually an addition because of Yagawa joining their ranks and doing the Bat- trilogy.
Brave Blade has been programmed by mostly newbies of the field, to the best of my knowledge. I don't have the faintest idea about 1944.

Shinobu Yagawa has gone to Cave where he has apparently re-joined his former Toaplan colleagues Ikeda and Takano. "Apparently" because a possibility is that he never was at Toaplan, or that he left before 1992 (year in which the two Cave founders started working at Toaplan).

A group of Raizing people behind Dimahoo and Sokyugurentai moved to Capcom during the period of cooperation (no more than 2-3 guys, i can't trace them). There, they met with people like Masahiro Yuge and Tatsuya Uemura, ex-Toaplan now supposedly at Capcom, who also coordinated efforts on Takumi/Capcom titles. Someone went instead at Milestone to join forces with Moo Nytani, the Puyo Puyo creator.

roker · Post by **roker** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:53 am

point being

Ibara does not equal Battle Garrega!

but it's damn fun

as long as that programmer remains with Cave

he MIGHT (capital letters folks) create something that says genius like BG

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:34 am

Shinobu Yagawa worked on Recca for the famicom didnt he, which was released in 1992. So did he move from toaplan to naxat soft just for the duration of Recca, then move to Raizing?

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:13 pm

mainpatr1 wrote:8Ing did those dumb Bloody Roar fighting games for the PS1.

Raizing mainly did shmups.

Actualy that was Hudson

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:31 pm

Macaw wrote:Shinobu Yagawa worked on Recca for the famicom didnt he, which was released in 1992. So did he move from toaplan to naxat soft just for the duration of Recca, then move to Raizing?

To the best of my understanding, Yagawa and a couple of other "Toaplan first generation" (of programmers) moved away from Toaplan in 1991. I think that Yagawa and Wakabayashi (Akira?) did Recca and then parted ways (Wakabayashi joined Cave, i think...too lazy to check arcade-history.com right now).

There is an apparent "hole" between Recca and Garegga, not to mention all of his previous work. He is heralded as the "shmup legend" or something like that (interview on Arcadia about Ibara, n.66 i think). Why is that, aside Garegga and Recca, is still a mistery for us westerners.

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:52 pm

I better correct myself that KID made Recca not Naxat Soft who just published it.

Was he actualy highly involved with Toaplans earlier stuff like Truxton etc.. or was he just helping out as a programmer?

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:02 pm

That's the biggest mistery. I have heard that he was the main programmer behind Kyukyoku Tiger AND Tatsujin (so he basically defined at least half of the genre, so to speak), but that's not confirmed (i.e. no credits of those games floating around). For the sake of completeness, these are just conjectures - based on what floats around the intarweb after babelfishing japanese pages

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:21 pm

Actually, Yagawa didn't have a hand in anything before Recca. He's like one of those doujin success stories, actually.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:11 pm

Twiddle wrote:Actually, Yagawa didn't have a hand in anything before Recca. He's like one of those doujin success stories, actually.

???!!!!

Full story plz!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:15 pm

I couldn't find anything that indicates that Yagawa and pre-death Toaplan were connected, not even on 2ch posts.

If Yagawa was a long time staffer on Toaplan and was prolific, you'd think he'd have gone to one of the splinter companies right away instead of make his own self-developed game that's a departure from virtually any Toaplan convention.

Ultimately, we have Raizing to thank for hiring him.

Post by **Icarus** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:36 pm

The man is a God.
Recca, Garegga, Batrider, Ibara.

Surprising to find out he might not have been a Toaplanner.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:48 pm

I just tried out Recca, which I never before have heard of, and boy, that`s a fast paced NES shmup - you already find a few trademarks in it, like the guns of the first boss that are all directly aiming at you (similar to the first stage robotic arms in Garegga), the circular attack patterns, or the options. Hot stuff!

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:12 pm

I still think Recca is the most insane and fast paced shmup ever, the 2nd stage where it scrolls up, then backwards, then forwards again is so crazy.

And just wait till you see hard course!! Each stage goes for like 6 minutes and has non stop insanity all the way through, some of the later levels even have the Batrider-esque missile storms only on a much bigger scale, combined with amounts of enemies onscreen that I never could have imagined the hardware could handle.

Its like team was trying to make the Famicom explode when they were developing the game!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:12 pm

Macaw wrote:Its like team was trying to make the Famicom explode when they were developing the game!

one person

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:41 pm

Games made by one person tend to be very distinct - think of Kenta Cho, or ZUNs Touhou games. What exactly was the occasion Recca was made? Summer carnival? Was that some kind of doujin convention?

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:42 pm

icycalm wrote:I am not supposed to be posting here any more (Mushi was an exception), but damn it, I couldn't help myself.

8ing made the absolutely awesome Kururin games (here is my review of the first one). They were awesome. So please don't say they only make turds, or you'll make me cry.

Funny story: my missus gave me a GBA for my birthday back when they first were released. With it she gave me a copy of Kuru Kuru Kururin. She said "it was the cheapest game there, so that's what you got" quite apologentically. Ironically it was the best GBA game I had since then!

I was GOBSMACKED to see that it was an 8ing puzzle game. These sorts of things NEVER make it to "PAL" territories (yeah, I know handhelds aren't the same, but Australia always gets screwed in the arse no matter what the platform).

Anyways... years later I see this game appearing all over the net as a cult classic, and rightly so. This thing kept me sane over the years taking public transport into my boring-as-hell office job.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:50 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:Games made by one person tend to be very distinct - think of Kenta Cho, or ZUNs Touhou games. What exactly was the occasion Recca was made? Summer carnival? Was that some kind of doujin convention?

Don't forget that one guy, who made that one game. Of course i'm talking about Warning Forever. For the life of me I can't figure out his name.

I played his newest game "Rayhound". Not quite a shooter per se, but close enough to get my vote.