The Mario Kart DS thread

[Dylan1CC]

No, that's not at all analogous. Blue shells are not some random force that automatically makes you lose a race. They are an item used by other players to delay the racer(s) toward the front of the pack. If someone decides to hold on to a blue shell until a particularly opportune time, then good for them; it's called playing with a strategy, not the result of a random number generator.

Generally speaking, when the blue shell costs someone the race, the person who fired the blue shell is far enough behind that he wouldn't win anyway. It's the person who was in a close second place that ends up winning.

It's not just unfair, it's spiteful.

You ignore one thing... the game doesn't award binary wins or losses, as such. You get a certain number of points depending on where you are in the race. If someone's been winning each race and then you can knock him into third place, you might not win that one race but it could help your chances for catching up over the course of the circuit.

And again, items are a central part of the game. It's not just "racing with some weapons thrown in" so if you want to play it that way, accept that you might lose because of it. In this game, sometimes it's to your benefit to stay back in second place. If you choose not to, you're aware of the possibilities.

Just wanted to say that IMHO Seth's posts sum up the whole "blue shell mechanic/pros 'n cons" topic nicely.

Am I the only person who doesn't have most races ruined by the blue shell?

No you're not alone there.

As I said earlier, even when it does happen 9/10 times I am able to catch up. And even if it hits me before the finish line, as long as the person who sent it isn't right behind me, after I pick myself back up I'm just gonna cross the finish line anyways. shrugs

So yeah, I'd say a lot of this is nitpicking. Not saying I like blue shells, mind ya.

I still think people complaining about the randomness in current Mario Kart and how skill doesn't matter are simply people who don't know how to play it properly.

Yuppers again.

The best thing about SNES Mario Kart is that, weapons included, the better player will still win 9 out of every 10 races. It's entirely skill based, and the weapons just add to the experience, rather than throwing the balance off. I agree that there's always been an element of randomness where MK is concerned, but it's become to large a part of the game for me these days. Blue shells were a shit idea, multiple red shells were a shit idea, and 1 minute+ lap times were a shit idea.

And red shells definitely took more skill to use properly on SNES.

Yes, MK SNES may push players for raw skill more than any in the series. But I will still take '64 and MK DS's much more interactive and refined tracks over the SNES game's any day.

DD is another story, obviously.

[Marc]

Yes, MK SNES may push players for raw skill more than any in the series. But I will still take '64 and MK DS's much more interactive and refined tracks over the SNES game's any day.

DD is another story, obviously.

Dude, I can half agree with the sentiments about the DS tracks, but 64? Are you shitting me? There's nothing there that comes anywhere near the quality and design brilliance of the SNES tracks - Ghost House 2, Mario Circuit 1 & 2, Rainbow Road in particular. I honestly couldn't find a single track on 64 that I thought even came close. Still each to their own I guess.

[jp]

I still think people complaining about the randomness in current Mario Kart and how skill doesn't matter are simply people who don't know how to play it properly.

And I think the people who are oblivious to the problem are:
A. People who are never in 1st so they never notice it.
B. People who play against people who suck so they're always "way ahead".
C. People who win a lot using blue shells.


In a 2P match... if both players are almost equal in skill... and one gets a blue shell... a holds it... and uses it... at the end... of the 3rd lap... the person... with the blue shell... will win...

Seriously, no one here is such a "God" at Mario Kart that no one on earth can keep a close match with them. And in a 2player match, a blue shell is all it takes to win. Easily.

Its not AS big a problem in 3 player up, in fact, its kind of helpful in the more crowded matches. But there's no reason for blue shells to be in 2player matches.

[sethsez]

I still think people complaining about the randomness in current Mario Kart and how skill doesn't matter are simply people who don't know how to play it properly.

And I think the people who are oblivious to the problem are:
A. People who are never in 1st so they never notice it.
B. People who play against people who suck so they're always "way ahead".
C. People who win a lot using blue shells.

D. People who don't blow every minor issue they have with a game up to a game-breaking, fun-ending level like people on this board are wont to do. Yes, on the rare occasion that a blue shell is the sole reason a race is lost, it's annoying, but it doesn't happen every other game like some people here seem to be insinuating. I'd say 95% of the time I get hit with a blue shell it's still possible to recover.

[Dylan1CC]

Yes, MK SNES may push players for raw skill more than any in the series. But I will still take '64 and MK DS's much more interactive and refined tracks over the SNES game's any day.

DD is another story, obviously.

Dude, I can half agree with the sentiments about the DS tracks, but 64? Are you shitting me? There's nothing there that comes anywhere near the quality and design brilliance of the SNES tracks - Ghost House 2, Mario Circuit 1 & 2, Rainbow Road in particular. I honestly couldn't find a single track on 64 that I thought even came close. Still each to their own I guess.

Design brilliance? Look, I like the original game as much as the next guy, but most of the tracks are practically over before they even start for crying out loud. More like "design limitations." 64's tracks are challenging, they add physics, new elements, lots of cool obstacles and ramps, they're good.

[BrianC]

Yes, MK SNES may push players for raw skill more than any in the series. But I will still take '64 and MK DS's much more interactive and refined tracks over the SNES game's any day.

DD is another story, obviously.

Dude, I can half agree with the sentiments about the DS tracks, but 64? Are you shitting me? There's nothing there that comes anywhere near the quality and design brilliance of the SNES tracks - Ghost House 2, Mario Circuit 1 & 2, Rainbow Road in particular. I honestly couldn't find a single track on 64 that I thought even came close. Still each to their own I guess.

Design brilliance? Look, I like the original game as much as the next guy, but most of the tracks are practically over before they even start for crying out loud. More like "design limitations." 64's tracks are challenging, they add physics, new elements, lots of cool obstacles and ramps, they're good.

So what if the SNES tracks aren't the longest? They are still well designed and have lots of cool obstacles too. I like many of the N64 tracks, but some of them are generic standard tracks and really aren't that special. I wasn't impressed by the N64 Rainbow Road. Also, the Super Circuit versions of the SNES tracks were toned down quite a bit with the obstacles removed.

I don't understand why SC is one of the most bashed and most loved of the Mario Karts at the same time. The physics are a bit different, but I found them to be quite good. The tracks are very well designed, especially Sky Garden. It also has one of the better versions of Rainbow Road.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

The word bashing is overused. It's even turned into some sort of accusation thrown at people when they don't like something about a game.

i.e.

Person A: "I don't like Mario Kart DS' devil ranking."

Person B: "stop bashing the game..." translation: you must be doing this because you're the evil and like to bad mouth games. This game is brilliant. You must be wrong.

[sethsez]

It's fine to say you don't like blue shells. Hell, I don't like blue shells. What's annoying is when people see an element of a game they don't like and then declare the entire thing totally and utterly broken. Not quite as ridiculous as when people call a game with a difficulty slider too easy, but still overblown.

And yes, if you're losing most races due to blue shells, then you're not playing the game properly. Period. There does come a point where it's user error rather than a flaw in the game. If you're annoyed because it makes getting a three star ranking almost random, that's fine, but if you're saying "every time I go online I lose because of the blue shells" then it's clear you're doing something wrong.

[jp]

It's fine to say you don't like blue shells. Hell, I don't like blue shells. What's annoying is when people see an element of a game they don't like and then declare the entire thing totally and utterly broken. Not quite as ridiculous as when people call a game with a difficulty slider too easy, but still overblown.

And yes, if you're losing most races due to blue shells, then you're not playing the game properly. Period. There does come a point where it's user error rather than a flaw in the game. If you're annoyed because it makes getting a three star ranking almost random, that's fine, but if you're saying "every time I go online I lose because of the blue shells" then it's clear you're doing something wrong.

I don't think we're saying its broken totally (at least, I'm not). I feel the ITEM SYSTEM is broken, but I still feel that Mario Kart DS is a fine game and is the best Mario Kart ever made. And I'm not saying I lose everytime someone hits me with a blue shell, I'm saying that if someone waits for the end of the 3rd lap to hit me with a blue shell, then I loose. If I wait til the end of the 3rd lap and use a blue shell, then I win. If we're both playing fair and don't hold on to the blue shells, then it doesn't really matter one way or the other.

[sethsez]

Well, in a clsoe race getting hit with any shell at the end will probably turn the tides.

[Icarus]

Just got me a NDS and Mario Kart, been playing it this afternoon. Impressions:

1. The DS is really uncomfortable to hold, especially with MKDS' control setup -_-;;
2. Looks and moves as smooth as Double Dash. I like.
3. Pretty responsive, tight controls. Drifting seems easier to do in MKDS, with almost the same precision as SMK's drifting, but with added speedboosting. Speedsnaking is a bit easier to do, definitely.
4. I like the Bullet Bill item, but bring back Chain Chomp! ;_;
5. Those Blue Shells are really annoying. In a 50CC race you can be guaranteed to be hit at least 5 times before you finish. I was whacked a record 9 times on 50CC Luigi's Mansion, and still managed to squeak over the line in 1ST place.
   
   They should have either returned to MKR's Blues, the terrain huggers, where you had a chance to outrun them at higher speeds or lead them into a wall, or give you something to counter a Blue if you are in first. Using MKDD's instant hit flying Blues is just... >_<#
   
   To comment on the Blue Shell debate: just remember though, that in SMK, the players with skills have a massive advantage over the non-skilled, and often the skilled player would be half a lap ahead or more. Blue Shells, the "catch-up boost" for lagging players and other things were introduced to give the non-skilled players a fighting chance of catching up to the experts, and make it more competitive. I spent ages playing 4-player MKR with my friends, and even though I had more experience on the series (and could snake better ^_-), the matches were still very aggressive and competitive because of the extra help that the Blues and stuff gave.
6. I like the Retro tracks, but I liked the feeling of moving over hills and through valleys like in MKR/DD/DS tracks. If they had updated the Retro tracks to have a few small hills and stuff, would be nice, rather than just a flat terrain. Meh. ^_-
7. Netplay is surprisingly responsive and lag free, even over Worldwide connections. I could get used to a quick bout of MKDD Online every now and again. ^_-

Anyway, going to try and unlock some of the other cups and stuff. If anyone wants to play, I'll probably be on after 1am GMT.

Friend Code: 060190 472938 // Icarus

You guys don't mind if I add some peeps to my friends list? ^_-

[GateofThunderforceIII]

I don't mean to derail this thread (it won't...eventually), but I just tried Project Gotham 3 at the Imperial Beach Gamecrazy earlier this evening. People have said that the game is so smooth it doesn't even look like it's moving at 30fps. Yeah. Right. All I can say is: Mario Kart DS, an NDS racer runs at 60fps, while two of the current three super duper next next gen racers, PGR 3 and NFS:MW runs at 30. Pretty pathetic, Microsoft, Bizarre Creations, and EA and thank you Nintendo!

[FatCobra]

I don't mean to derail this thread (it won't...eventually), but I just tried Project Gotham 3 at the Imperial Beach Gamecrazy earlier this evening. People have said that the game is so smooth it doesn't even look like it's moving at 30fps. Yeah. Right. All I can say is: Mario Kart DS, an NDS racer runs at 60fps, while two of the current three super duper next next gen racers, PGR 3 and NFS:MW runs at 30. Pretty pathetic, Microsoft, Bizarre Creations, and EA and thank you Nintendo!

That's one way to spit in the eyes of soul-less gaming corporations! EA and MS have the personality of a stale potato chip.

I've also heard that developers are no longer shooting for 60 fps for the next-gen systems, instead opting for 30 fps. That my friend, is unacceptable in my book.

[Marc]

I don't mean to derail this thread (it won't...eventually), but I just tried Project Gotham 3 at the Imperial Beach Gamecrazy earlier this evening. People have said that the game is so smooth it doesn't even look like it's moving at 30fps. Yeah. Right. All I can say is: Mario Kart DS, an NDS racer runs at 60fps, while two of the current three super duper next next gen racers, PGR 3 and NFS:MW runs at 30. Pretty pathetic, Microsoft, Bizarre Creations, and EA and thank you Nintendo!

To be fair, there's a slight difference in the number of polys they're shifting though. Does the graphical difference make Sega Ages Space Harrier a better game than the original?

[GateofThunderforceIII]

Yes, I know about the huge difference in polygon count. But what I'm trying to get across is how Nintendo would care enough to offer us a super smooth 3-D racing game with the power of the DS compared to EA and Bizarre Creations only coming up with something half as smooth on something enormously more powerful. I haven't opened my Sega Ages Space Harrier, but if it's running at 30 and the original sprite based one runs at 60, then screw the new one.

Am I a frame rate whore? YOU BET!! Because higher frame rates equals more solid graphics and more importantly, sharper more accurate controls.

[FatCobra]

Am I a frame rate whore? YOU BET!! Because higher frame rates equals more solid graphics and more importantly, sharper more accurate controls.

I am a frame rate whore as well. I'd rather run a PC game at lower resolution and low detail if it meant better framerates. When your gaming roots were during the 8bit days, graphics don't seem to matter much. They help, but only if they don't interfer with the gameplay or framerate.

[Marc]

When your gaming roots were during the 8bit days, graphics don't seem to matter much. They help, but only if they don't interfer with the gameplay or framerate.

Yeah... like Driller and Castle Master on C64, Nemesis and Karnov on Spectrum

[Dylan1CC]

Dude, I can half agree with the sentiments about the DS tracks, but 64? Are you shitting me? There's nothing there that comes anywhere near the quality and design brilliance of the SNES tracks - Ghost House 2, Mario Circuit 1 & 2, Rainbow Road in particular. I honestly couldn't find a single track on 64 that I thought even came close. Still each to their own I guess.

Design brilliance? Look, I like the original game as much as the next guy, but most of the tracks are practically over before they even start for crying out loud. More like "design limitations." 64's tracks are challenging, they add physics, new elements, lots of cool obstacles and ramps, they're good.

So what if the SNES tracks aren't the longest? They are still well designed and have lots of cool obstacles too. I like many of the N64 tracks, but some of them are generic standard tracks and really aren't that special. I wasn't impressed by the N64 Rainbow Road. Also, the Super Circuit versions of the SNES tracks were toned down quite a bit with the obstacles removed.

I don't understand why SC is one of the most bashed and most loved of the Mario Karts at the same time. The physics are a bit different, but I found them to be quite good. The tracks are very well designed, especially Sky Garden. It also has one of the better versions of Rainbow Road.

Cool obstacles in SNES Mario Kart? I guess, if you like being constantly slowed down by those annoying bump-ramps, endless dirt patches or falling in a random pool of water.

I will give ya though that SC is a very good Mario Kart game.

[FatCobra]

Alot of the DS Nitro tracks are pretty well designed. I especially like Airship Fortress, Ticktock Clock, and Waluigi Pinball. It's too bad that they can't be raced online.

My opinion on the Retro Tracks:

Shell Cup:

SNES Mario Circuit 1 - Well, it's the track that started it all, so I think it deserves to be here. I wish it had 5 laps instead of 3 however. Too short.

N64 MooMoo Farm - This was a pretty fun track to race on. Do you take the inside of the corner and risk getting hit by a mole or stay on the outside where it's safe? I like bumpy tracks like this one.

GBA Peach Circuit - Never played Super Circuit, so no opinion other than the music sucks. Decent enough track I guess.

GCN Luigi Circuit - Shell is the retro equvialant of the Mushroom Cup, so I guess the tracks can't be too hard. This one is a bit too wide, which makes it easy to snake on, if you are into that kind of thing. They took out the Chomp shortcut however! >_<

Banana Cup:

SNES Doughnut Plains 1 - Not a very special track, they should have put in DP2 with the moles. Also, 3 laps is still too short for this track.

N64 Frappe Land - More like Crappe Land to me. Why did this track make it in instead of the far more superior Sherbert Lake track?

GBA Bowser Castle 2 - Somewhat fun track to race on, a great place to learn how to run the best route due to zipper placement. The jumps are annoying, as with all the other Mode-7 retro tracks.

GCN Baby Park - Why they choose to pick the easiest and crappiest track from Double Dash is beyond me. It's just not the same without big shells and bananas to worry about.

Leaf Cup:

SNES Koopa Beach 2 - I liked the first Koopa Beach better, and they made this track crappier by forcing you to avoid the deep water sections since Lakitu will have to pull you out if you fall in.

N64 Choco Mountain - I LOVE THIS TRACK!!! Easily one of the best Retro tracks, IMO.

GBA Luigi Circuit - Yuck. I hate this one, due to the crappy puddles that make you spinout if you run over them.

GCN Mushroom Bridge - Dodging traffic is fun, but other than that, it's kinda boring and they took out the shortcut where you can drive up the bridge railing.

Lighting Cup

SNES Choco Island 2 - I kinda like this one, due to the fun driving thru the mud sections and the small bumps. Reminds me of a motocross track actually. (Well, if it was flat anyway)

N64 Banshee Boardwalk - Not that bad of a track actually. Like the creepy music.

GBA Sky Garden - Great track, plenty of risky shortcuts and great music to boot!

GCN Yoshi Circuit - Probably the most famous Retro track, since it's seen often in the previews of the game, and I'm glad it's in. It was my favorite track in Double Dash. Why no retro Rainbow Road to end the Retro Grand Prix however?

Now if I ran things the Retro Gran Prix would like this, in keeping with the progressive generations thing....

Shell Cup

SNES: Keep SNES Mario Circuit 1, but make it 5 laps instead of 3
N64: Keep N64 MooMoo Farm
GBA: Never played Super Circuit, so I don't know.
GCN: Keep GCN Luigi Circuit, but add the Chomp shortcut

Banana Cup

SNES: Dump Doughnut Plains 1 and add DP2 instead. 5 laps instead of 3
N64: Dump Crappe Land and replace it with N64 Mario Circuit or Sherbert Lake
GBA: Never played Super Circuit, but I like Bowser's Castle 2 so it can stay.
GCN: Dump Baby Park and replace it with Yoshi Circuit instead

Leaf Cup

SNES: Dump Koopa Troopa Beach 2 and replace it with KT1 instead. Make it 5 laps instead of 3.
N64: Keep Choco Mountain
GBA: Definity dump Luigi Circuit and replace it with Cheese Land (heard it was one of the better SC tracks)
GCN: Dump Mushroom Bridge and replace it with the more fun Mushroom City

Lightning Cup

SNES: Choco Island 2 can stay, but raise the laps to 5!
N64: Dump Banshee Boardwalk and replace with DK Jungle
GBA: Sky Garden can stay.
GCN: Since I moved Yoshi Circuit to the Banana Cup, I'm going to replace it with Wario Collesium and raise the laps to 3 instead of 2. Why no Rainbow Road? You'll see...

Mission mode was pointless, so let's dump that to make room for the
Rainbow Cup!

SNES: SNES Rainbow Road
N64: N64 Rainbow Road, but make it shorter and get rid of some of the barriers!
GBA: GBA Rainbow Road
GCN: GBA Rainbow Road

That my fellow Karters, is my ideal Retro Gran Prix. Too bad it isn't that way huh?

[BrianC]

Mission Mode pointless? The game finally added something new for one player and it doesn't sound pointless at all.

[FatCobra]

Mission Mode pointless? The game finally added something new for one player and it doesn't sound pointless at all.

Ok, let me rephrase that. Mission mode was pointless because you didn't unlock anything for completing the missions. But then again, we're playing videogames to have fun, right?

I'm just saying that I thought it was somewhat pointless and they could have used the extra space for better tracks.

[jp]

Mission Mode pointless? The game finally added something new for one player and it doesn't sound pointless at all.

Ok, let me rephrase that. Mission mode was pointless because you didn't unlock anything for completing the missions. But then again, we're playing videogames to have fun, right?

I'm just saying that I thought it was somewhat pointless and they could have used the extra space for better tracks.

I agree that Mission Mode was pointless. OK, the boss fights are cool and... if I get star rankings on everything I get an extra mission. Thats it? No unlockable courses or karts? Meh. Waste of time.

[jp]

I would also like to say that I agree with FatCobra's entire post. That idea sounds excellent.

[BrianC]

The problem with including more tracks is that not all of them would be available online. Also, no matter what tracks are chosen, there will be one that people don't like. The game already has more than Mario Kart Double Dash.

I would have liked to see some of the retro Rainbow Roads. The N64 one is my least favorite of them. It would have been awesome if the SNES, GBA, GCN, and N64 F-Zero Rainbow Roads were in the game. I heard that the new Rainbow Road in MKDS is awesome, though. It's too bad it isn't available online.

[FatCobra]

I heard that the new Rainbow Road in MKDS is awesome, though. It's too bad it isn't available online.

Last time I checked before my DS vanished into thin air, you can race DS Rainbow Road online.

Let me also note that once you unlock the ability to choose any cart for any character, the drivers kind of lose their individuality. (Mixing and matching is cool however, since Wario is my favorite driver).