Describe your boner for the Breaking Bad return...

[brentsg]

Reports indicate the final episode had 10.3 million viewers.

[GaijinPunch]

Yeah, that's huge. They were all worked up about 6 million for the premiere 8 weeks ago. Hope that means AMC will be able to bring in more dough for other high caliber productions.

[GaijinPunch]

Spoilers obviously:
LOL

[neorichieb1971]

There is apparently going to be a "better call Saul" spinoff show. That should be good as well.

[heisenbergman]

I'm cautiously optimistic for Better Call Saul. Mainly cautious because I can't see Bob Odenkirk as a captivating lead. Still optimistic because it's Vince Gilligan.

If you're the showrunner of what has been probably the greatest show ever on TV, you should have a license to do most anything you want and people should expect quality work whatever it is.

[dex]

Bob Odenkirk is one of the funniest motherfuckers I've ever seen. If they reverse the drama to humor ratio of Breaking Bad (which it looks like they will), I am optimistic it will be an enjoyable experience. Not on the caliber of Breaking Bad, but what is?

[GaijinPunch]

Saul will do anything for a buck. They can take that concept to all kinds of awful and hilarious places.

EDIT: Speaking of spin-offs, anyone hoping a new Star Trek TV series starts and Badger is hired as a writer?

[brentsg]

Maybe Heull will drop some weight so he can play his former self, before he was Walt-cabin sized.

[jasoncslaughter]

So I just started watching this show from the beginning a couple of days ago on Netflix. I rarely watch TV shows and don't have cable because I generally hate everything that's on. That being said, I have to say this is pretty fucking good so far and from what I've heard, it is going to get better. So I'd describe my boner as not full-on hard yet, but it's pumping up.

[heisenbergman]

I sort of envy people who have not yet seen Breaking Bad and can still experience that OMGWOW feeling from seeing it the first time.

[Skykid]

Well, all done. 6 years of TV in two weeks. Nice.

Missing it already, which is a nice feeling, as there were times I just wanted it to hurry the fuck up and stop pissing around. I guess you could say I enjoyed the hell out of it for the most part, irritating aspects notwithstanding.

Best TV show ever. No, certainly not. If it was reduced to three seasons it would have been sharper, for sure. I'd like to slap Gilligan for some of that 'we're getting ratings now, shit we need to make this last longer' business.

But great entertainment with a killer premise and some absolutely grade A characters, definitely.

I'm tired now and need to sleep, and I'm sure I missed the boat where you're all into chatting about it, but happy to offer a personal critique tomorrow if anyone's game. You're all so gay over it I doubt you'll agree with anything except the stuff I say was done really well, but whatever.

[rancor]

Finally arrived here in Japan in subtitled edition via Hulu. Convinced the wife to watch it (finally!) and we sat down for the first two eps. I noticed a LOT of things that aren't seen again until late in the show. But anyhow, after two episodes she lost interest and doesn't want to watch it anymore. Why?

"It's too exciting."

[Aleksei]

Yeah, best to watch it all as fast as you can all at once. I did what skykid did, one week and a day from start to finish and now I can pretend I didn't see it because thats all anyone talks about @ school the people and my school are so boring.

[GaijinPunch]

I think Skykid has missed a few things though, to say the least. I think all the highs and lows were intentional... and not b/c of ratings or stretching it out. I still the one of the best episodes ever was The Fly episode, and it admittedly was one of the least action-packed. The other was when they were trapped in the RV in the junk yard w/ Hank right outside. So intense... yet... no bullets (just a few bullet holes).

Also, this is one I'm glad I didn't marathon. The only break that pissed me off was splitting Season 5 into two. Other than that, I liked guessing how they were going to pick up each season.

[heisenbergman]

Fun fact: On IMDB, Fly is actually the lowest rated episode of the whole series - link

Another fun fact: Fly was directed by Rian Johnson, who also directed Ozymandias, which is not only the highest-rated Breaking Bad episode, but also the highest-rated single episode of TV ever on IMDB.

FWIW, I liked Fly. It's one of the richest episodes of the series in terms of character developement and should be one of the quntissential examples of bottle episodes in all of TV.

[GaijinPunch]

Word.

[jasoncslaughter]

FWIW, I liked Fly. It's one of the richest episodes of the series in terms of character developement and should be one of the quntissential examples of bottle episodes in all of TV.

Just watched Fly last night, and for the most part I'd have to agree.

Also, just for the record, I'm not a big fan of binge viewing. I think watching the episodes fairly close together has been fun, but I usually go with one a day, occasionally two. If I really like the show, why would I want to watch it all at once?

[heisenbergman]

If you really like the show why wouldn't you want to watch it all at once, is what I'd ask. I would think that the natural reaction to something that consistently pleases you is to get more of it asap (like, you know, meth ). Having said that, I would totally understand the logic of not finishing it all off quickly so that you maintain that "high" of experiencing it for as long as possible.

I think there's something to be said for seeing a series during it's actual run where you're limited to one episode a week and one season a year. That way, you're given a lot of room to breath, a lot of time to think and for the content of the episode to simmer given that long amount of time.

[jasoncslaughter]

If you really like the show why wouldn't you want to watch it all at once, is what I'd ask. I would think that the natural reaction to something that consistently pleases you is to get more of it asap (like, you know, meth ). Having said that, I would totally understand the logic of not finishing it all off quickly so that you maintain that "high" of experiencing it for as long as possible.

I think there's something to be said for seeing a series during it's actual run where you're limited to one episode a week and one season a year. That way, you're given a lot of room to breath, a lot of time to think and for the content of the episode to simmer given that long amount of time.

It's tempting to marathon it, but I think you hit on the exact reason I take my time. Also, I don't think there's ever been a time in my life when I had time to watch more than an hour or two of TV a day (and to be honest, unless I'm into a show like this, I usually don't watch any TV).

[Skykid]

Okay, so GP you're misunderstanding. The Fly is probably one of the top 5 episodes in the entire show for me - I would have liked all eps to be up to that standard.

Before breaking it down, I should reiterate I enjoyed the show very much, and there were plenty of high points in there that will stick in the memory. Of course, you guys know I don't let anything off too easy, which is why I can't let certain things slide that other guys probably won't even notice.

Cranston is a superb actor, really first rate. He was, the penny only dropping after finishing the show, the guy in X-Files episode Drive, that I watched again not long ago - which is apparently where Gilligan took note of his abilities. He was really good in that too. Shame it took so long to get him into something substantial, but better late than never.

One thing I really like about Breaking Bad is how good the characters are. Even more than Walter, I thought Mike, Gus Fring, and Saul Goodman were amazing. Hank and weird Todd Damon were good too, although Hank suffered a little inconsistency (not his fault) but I'll get to that in a minute.

As a character show, I suppose I'd put it up there with some of the best.

My biggest issue with it was all the fucking filler. There's definitely something to be said, as brentsg noted, if you have to wait a week and in some cases a year to catch up with it, versus banging through four in a row. But either way, the filler is most definitely there, and a lot of it was really tiresome.

The Fly isn't filler, btw - completely the opposite. The Fly is like the Sopranos: nothing much really happens, but it's just brilliantly written and executed. It's all the other shit that had us sitting there saying "when the fuck is something going to happen."

No-doubt you guys don't remember these details as they're the easiest ones to forget, but I assure you, after Walt and Jessie are established as our main two characters, there were times when they almost felt like secondary characters while the show would lapse into the Hank and Marie half-hour, or of course, crying Skyler.

"Crying Skyler" was our idea for a sub-series, we hit upon it around season three. I assume her audition was "can you cry on cue?", since that's all she really did. Toward the end of the show, no-shit, Skyler had more airtime than Jessie, for no real reason. Most of her crying and moaning etc could have been handled in 5 minutes an episode, but tended to get twenty-five instead.

Additionally, Marie is the shittiest character in the show by a mile. If they had made Hank single it would have been much better, but they needed a family tie, so we get Marie.

Now all shows have filler, I get that, and I can see BB's problem in that it's got a really interesting central hook about a dying Science teacher deciding to cook meth - but making that stretch appeared to be a real problem at times.

I remember noting that if absolutely nothing came of Marie's kleptomania and pathological lying that we kept getting sidetracked on, I'd be super pissed. But nothing did, of course. Just get back to Walt and Jessie already.

Hank, love the character as I did, got so much airtime shitting his pants in bed and rock collecting that it took up half a series. For no reason. A few minutes here and there would have been fine, and the pivotal scene with Walt and the Gale case, but the rest was just dragged out way too long.

As much as I enjoyed the show and would recommend it for numerous reasons, I definitely think it's overrated based on the constant gushing all over the place. It's good, yeah, but it ain't no X-Files, come on. If it dropped all the soap opera stuff it would have benefited big time, which is why I suggested 3 seasons for the story they wanted to tell would have been optimum.

My other sticking point was how unbelievably bone-headed it could be. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but it really impacted Walt's character. Hank's dying breath "you're the smartest guy I ever met" certainly wasn't upheld throughout the show. Half the time he was acting like such a bell-end you stopped sympathising with him. In season five you don't even really like him because he's that time-bomb that Mike describes, although that's partially intentional of course.

Would he really consider Jessie's junkie girlfriend's threat to 'deliver Jessie's 5 million dollars or I'll go to the police... and then lose all 5 million when it gets impounded and end up with nothing' worrying?

There were so many times we'd be sitting there saying "he wouldn't fucking say that","Why doesn't he just say","He wouldn't do that", "nobody would be that stupid" over and over, it was kind of disappointing to think of the general consensus that the writing was 'genius'. Far from it.

I didn't take notes unfortunately, but recent memories in season 5 was Jessie getting freaked out by a big bald guy in a leather jacket staring straight at him while standing opposite Walter. Because lets face it, if White wanted to whack him, he'd definitely make it that obvious. I'm sure they could have come up with something a little smarter to stoke his paranoia.

Jessie's character was ruined anyway in season 5, he was wildly inconsistent about Walt - in-fact they all were. Bloody Hank and Marie were on lynching duties the instant they found out, a real zero to one-hundred reaction. There was no thought about his cancer, that he was close family, about what might have compelled him to do what he did etc. Hank just started dropping the words monster, bastard, piece of shit on autofire, while Marie towed the line by walloping her sister and calling for Walt's head on a stick. I get that there's been a serious deception and he's probably guilty of some serious shit - but they don't know the ins and outs of it at all, or even what he's actually directly responsible for.

Other dumbassery is when Walt finds out Marie accepted money to pay for his hospital bills and then crumbles "You've killed me Marie, that WAS THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN."

How is that the "final nail in the coffin"? For dramatic effect of-course, but made no sense in context and was never referenced again... not dissimilar to Jessie freaking out at the bald guy, running back to Hank's van, and as they drive away he says "There's another way we can really get him". You then wait for the next episode to find out what his amazing idea is and... there is nothing. He doesn't have an idea - it's Hank who figures out how to get Hule to talk and then trick Walt into thinking he's found his money.

Anyway, this shit was rampant throughout. I loved Cranston, but I took issue with the weakness in consistency of his character that other characters didn't have. Fring, Mike, Goodman were all completely solid, but Walt never really became Heisenberg, which was disappointing. Jessie went on an enormous leap over White being the "Devil" - he made the kid sick, yes, but for good reason and he'd also saved Jessie's life about a hundred times - but whenever I expected Walt to finally live up to this 'devil' status, he would suddenly get into the same old panic and start flapping about something and hyper ventilating, just as he always does. He never really achieved the quiet drug baron nature that typified Fring so well - and I'm not sure if he was meant to be a failure - but I expected in season 5 he might go three episodes without getting into a tiswas about something or another. Usually filler.

The last episode was brilliant though, definitely superior to Ozymandias, and directed beautifully from beginning to end. I wanted every episode to be as good and as concentrated as that.

In summary, the first five eps of season one were amazing, season two had oodles of filler until the final few episodes and nothing really happened for ages, season three was marginally better, still with too much filler but plenty of Fring - the best subplot of all. Mike and Goodman also got good airtime to drive things when the main characters weren't up to much - and the Gale cliffhanger was a beauty. Season four was probably the best, overall in terms of tension, although certainly not filler free, and five was pretty good in the first third, lulled in the middle and came back with a vengeance in the finale.

Less stoner antics, less family soap opera biz, less Crying Skyler and stupid Marie, less Jessie heartaches, and more train heists, mafia massacres, and episodes that didn't only have a cliffhanger to keep you involved would have been preferable.
Much more concentration on the science guy becoming a monster would have been altogether more powerful - but on the whole it was a pretty good show, glut of silliness aside.

I enjoyed.

[Hagane]

I frequently see people calling character development and expanding the serie's universe "filler". Happens with ASOIAF, and now Breaking Bad. Couldn't disagree more. Filler is just dumb stuff thrown in there to fill, what Skykid calls filler just expands the characters personalities and improves the overall experience. Only part I would call poor would be Season 2. The rest is superb and every second of it is great.

And I'd definitely take this over X-Files any day.

Bloody Hank and Marie were on lynching duties the instant they found out, a real zero to one-hundred reaction. There was no thought about his cancer, that he was close family, about what might have compelled him to do what he did etc. Hank just started dropping the words monster, bastard, piece of shit on autofire, while Marie towed the line by walloping her sister and calling for Walt's head on a stick. I get that there's been a serious deception and he's probably guilty of some serious shit - but they don't know the ins and outs of it at all, or even what he's actually directly responsible for.

What did you expect Hank and Marie to do, considering their personalities? Oh yeah Walt, you killed people, were indirectly responsible of almost leaving me without legs and career, endangered our family, were the biggest meth producer in the state, made a call to trick me into believing that Marie had a (possibly serious) accident... but it's all good man, how is your cancer? Nah, most normal people would act the same. I guess marathoning it made you miss a lot of details.

[Skykid]

I frequently see people calling character development and expanding the serie's universe "filler". Happens with ASOIAF, and now Breaking Bad. Couldn't disagree more. Filler is just dumb stuff thrown in there to fill, what Skykid calls filler just expands the characters personalities and improves the overall experience. Only part I would call poor would be Season 2. The rest is superb and every second of it is great.

And I'd definitely take this over X-Files any day.

Never. I'd take superb writing over okay writing any day, but then I have standards.

BB is pretty good entertainment. I know what filler is, I just watched five seasons that dilly dallied a heck of a lot actually offering far less character development than it should have. Mike, Fring and Gus were all completely consistent characters developed perfectly with much less screen time than characters who often flopped all over the place, backing and forthing with no particular direction. That's not to say it wasn't plenty of fun - it was - just more so when stuff actually happened.

But it doesn't matter, I didn't expect anyone to agree with me. Any negative criticism is bound to hurt feelings, this is a boner thread after all. I think it got me to half mast now and then.

Filler is just dumb stuff thrown in there to fill, what Skykid calls filler just expands the characters personalities and improves the overall experience.

Marie's existence improved the experience how? Because stealing spoons with absolutely no purpose doesn't qualify as filler.

Skyler's incredible personality must have involved a superb range of tears. I didn't see a lot of her personality expansion beyond a few key junctures, the rest was on repeat.

[cools]

What you're describing as filler I'd put down as realism, and characters acting without their own best interests and forethought I'd call normal irrational behaviour. Even the cleverest people in real life do dumb stuff.

Sounds like you'd prefer the 2 hour movie version

[Skykid]

What I'm describing as filler is non-plot related elements used to elongate a series without developing its core characters or scenario. It's interesting how you guys consider all that reiteration as qualified character development, as if the show required any more. In-fact character development was given too much emphasis, to the point whrre several started to lose their continuity. They needed to retcon so much unnecessary focus on what secondary characters are doing today and create more interesting episodes focussing on Walter's pursuit of power. I have many memorable episodes and moments, but most of everything else was forgotten almost the minute it aired, which is why I maintain it would have been superior at three seasons - but they need ratings for at least five so we get preambling.

There's very little about BB that echoes realism at all, tbh, there are far too many brain farts involved. But that wasn't exactly what I went in for.

[Hagane]

What you're describing as filler I'd put down as realism, and characters acting without their own best interests and forethought I'd call normal irrational behaviour. Even the cleverest people in real life do dumb stuff.

Sounds like you'd prefer the 2 hour movie version

Pretty much.

[Skykid]

It's amusing you guys keep using 'realism' in defence of the show? Do you even know what realism is?

I'm pretty sure BB has no aspirations for realism whatsoever, and if it did they were outdone by hugely questionable developments and inconsistencies.

If you think realism equates to archetypal soap opera tropes then I get your misunderstanding.

[cools]

There's very little about BB that echoes realism at all, tbh

Really? I'm aware there's a fair bit of the science that's artistic, but in terms of people and how they act and react with each other I could pick and choose dozens of people I know IRL and expect them to behave in the same manner.

If that's not what realism is then I'd like to be enlightened.

The same can't be said of soap opera characters, where I know no-one that fits the mould.

Mike, Fring and Gus were all completely consistent characters developed perfectly

I think this is where we differ. These were all predictable single minded characters. They were all executed perfectly but you always knew they'd behave in a particular fashion. They had no grey area.

[emphatic]

Yeah, ever had a friend or family betray you? People can get from "everything's cool" to "I'm a fucking race car revving in the red" in a couple of seconds. I totally believe people would act like that, and the side shtick about Marie being a kleptomaniac is to show her as a flawed, impulsive fucking goody two shoes and how Hank has to put up with that shit and looking for a way to get release of all the built-up tension he can't possibly deal with without wrecking his marriage/looking like a jerk. I have people in my life that's turned their back on blood relatives because of really silly things or stupid misunderstandings.

Hank has this picture in his mind of Heisenberg as this fucking monster, killing anyone in his way just to keep his drug empire. He knows nothing about what Walt has been through because of stupid choices along the way. How could he know?

And Walt making dumb decisions, that's all about him not being born into the life of a criminal. I think he's not ever watched crime shows like CSI, Law and Order or any other "educational" pop media, so thinking his way quickly out of shitty situations doesn't come naturally to him- But give him a couple of hours and he will come up with rad stuff.

On the other hand, one of the more filler-heavy shows for me is the X-Files. I remember rolling my eyes for every "monster of the week" episode and kept wishing they'd move the whole conspiracy thing with the smoking man going. No hard feelings?

[Skykid]

If that's not what realism is then I'd like to be enlightened.

Then there's no way I can help you. Breaking Bad is proud to be entertainment through and through - there's little to nothing in it I'd consider realistic: half the time its on the outskirts of believability even for fiction. In its defence I really don't think it was aiming for anything even close.

Mike, Fring and Gus were all completely consistent characters developed perfectly

I think this is where we differ. These were all predictable single minded characters. They were all executed perfectly but you always knew they'd behave in a particular fashion. They had no grey area.

That's exactly why they worked. But that's not to say they had no depth or complexity, quite the contrary. Gus was one of the smartest drug lord bad guys I've seen in anything - perhaps the best of all. Ruthless but highly intelligent and well mannered, with a respect for White's abilities and honesty. He broke away from every cliche and all of his actions were consistent and therefore believable. Mike, too, is just an old dog who's been about the track, always smart enough to call it quits with a single-minded goal to provide for his granddaughter. When he told Walt "shut the fuck up and let me die in peace" he echoed my sentiments exactly. But that was part of his role: Mike defined Walt's problems. He was a dangerous bad guy who was also just an employee on a lesser paypacket, and you could sympathise with him. He had a really well executed subtlety.

You keep mentioning you know people who act irrationally in real-life, and that's no surprise. A major part of Walt's personality was hinged around his irrationality - that's who he was and how he becomes who he does. I haven't got a problem with that aspect of the character, more his irrationality constantly tripping into outright stupidity and the inconsistent behaviours of characters around him.

All of this is down to thin writing that undermined several good aspects of the show.

Honestly, in Ozymandias after seven brutal killers go roaming the mountains looking for a man hiding under the car he was in two minutes ago, we had to hit pause for the lol of it. I suppose that's realism too.

On the other hand, one of the more filler-heavy shows for me is the X-Files. I remember rolling my eyes for every "monster of the week" episode and kept wishing they'd move the whole conspiracy thing with the smoking man going. No hard feelings?

None at all. There was hardly an ounce of filler in it, and when there was it was a whole episode that just sucked - often three or four in a run of twenty-four.

Yeah, ever had a friend or family betray you? People can get from "everything's cool" to "I'm a fucking race car revving in the red" in a couple of seconds. I totally believe people would act like that, and the side shtick about Marie being a kleptomaniac is to show her as a flawed, impulsive fucking goody two shoes and how Hank has to put up with that shit and looking for a way to get release of all the built-up tension he can't possibly deal with without wrecking his marriage/looking like a jerk. I have people in my life that's turned their back on blood relatives because of really silly things or stupid misunderstandings.

It was a totally useless subplot that did nothing and went nowhere. Stop trying to dress it up, I know you guys are easily pleased but I didn't go in for the trite soap operatics. It's only function was to fill time, and far too often.

[Skykid]

Oh, and courtesy of Gaijinpunch:

Oh, there are plenty of episodes that will feel like filler. Gilligan was asked head on about that, and to sum it up, he basically said, "I think the highs hit harder when you mix them in with the lows". Just trust the show... a lot of the mundane is actually really necessary.

I will definitely rewatch the whole thing on BR when the Season 5 set comes out. I might just let it run when I have to do some other task that doesn't require all my attention.

So Vince Gilligan, the creator, was actually publicly quizzed as to why there was so much filler, and he described it as necessary mundanity... yet you chaps didn't spot a whisker of it, ha ha.

You're obviously real pros on the subject.