Kyukyoku Tiger (Twin Cobra)

[EmperorIng]

Nice arcade score!

I think a Toaplan interview on blackoak's shmuplations site mentions the boss glitch thing but I can't remember. It weirds me out even though it's harmless (another programming flub: being sent back to a previous checkpoint if you died right at the start of one). I don't recall too many differences between bullets in the versions, but I bet you some idiosyncratic junk was tweaked solely to drive Despatche crazy.

[Perikles]

Nice arcade score!

Got something substantially better!

Twin Cobra, Arcade, Normal difficulty



Perikles - 4,047,190 - 516 - Yes - 1P - Shmupmame v4.2

It's still not great, but I most certainly take it. I never can get through the first loop without dying, by no later than 1-8 I die a horrific death somewhere. I also have a nasty tendency to get myself killed in the most stupid ways in the first level of subsequent loops or when I finally manage to get a five-way spread shot. But I can't really complain, for every daft death there's at least one insanely lucky dodge in that run. Will upload the video soon!

[...] (another programming flub: being sent back to a previous checkpoint if you died right at the start of one).

I always thought that was by intention. I used that to my advantage when playing the MD port of Tatsujin, some checkpoints are so tough in the final stage that I intentionally killed myself twice in rapid succession to start at a more lenient place. And since most of the other MD Toaplan games incorporate this system as well I was sure they put that in there for a specific reason.

Edit: finally got the run up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFmcKSP4Kwc

[BIL]

[...] (another programming flub: being sent back to a previous checkpoint if you died right at the start of one).

I always thought that was by intention. I used that to my advantage when playing the MD port of Tatsujin, some checkpoints are so tough in the final stage that I intentionally killed myself twice in rapid succession to start at a more lenient place. And since most of the other MD Toaplan games incorporate this system as well I was sure they put that in there for a specific reason.

There's an official commentary on this at shmuplations, here (CTRL+F "endpoint").

Offhand, sounds quite similar to the origins of Ninja Gaiden's much-loved Boss Rush Cockslap™.

[Despatche]

Thanks for letting me know the FC version actually ends. It's just the one loop? Strange.

Also one question regarding the arcade Kyuukyoku Tiger: I know about the checkpoints, but is the game different aside from that? Faster bullets mayhap?

Most world versions of Toaplan games do something to make the game easier, usually simply decreasing the difficulty slightly (enemies shoot less and bullets are slower). Some games lower the extend settings. Some add co-op. Twin Cobra does all three.

[KoopaTGR]

In Kyukyoku Tiger the player ship is gray and moves slower. The game's style of play would eventually become an inspiration for games such as Raiden.

[hanasu]

I've heard a friend mention a difference in the effectiveness of point-blanking between the two versions. Never played the JP version so don't know which is which.

[trap15]

Yeah, Twin Cobra has only 3 shots on screen allowed, Kyuukyoku Tiger allows 4. So you can be slightly farther away to do the same damage.

[Despatche]

Oh right, it has that too. Fire Shark also does that. I don't know what Toaplan or Taito or whoever were thinking with half these changes, I really don't.

[emphatic]

Oh right, it has that too. Fire Shark also does that. I don't know what Toaplan or Taito or whoever were thinking with half these changes, I really don't.

Because the World version has two players simultaneously. Less sprites on screen at a time = less chance of slowdowns?

[Despatche]

I guess so. That might be why it's only in specific games, too.

[OmegaFlareX]

Not mine, but I think this is the current WR:

23,301,060
9-7
7:12:55
IMKKKK
2/20/16 APOLLO GAME CENTER OKINOSU, Tokushima-Prefecture, Japan
https://youtu.be/NghwzspUnX8

[Despatche]

I'm amazed someone actually tracked any game beyond 10,000,000. That's quite the marathon.

[OmegaFlareX]

I've also got a 6-hour Fire Shark counterstop and a 7-loop Tatsujin Oh monstrosity in my shmups YT playlist. The best parts are the recovery sections.

[Perikles]

I don't have a new score, but I'm sure someone might be interested to know that the PCE port (abruptly) ends after two loops. If you want to get a picture of your achievement you'd better pause after beating the final boss, there's no way to see the score ever again after the final landing sequence. I was really surprised the game ends like that, although I suppose it would've been difficult to increase the bullet speed further without it getting frustrating. My score was lower than my 2-10 result, though, due to the lack of (inadvertent) checkpoint milking.

[Perikles]

Kyuukyoku Tiger - Arcade



Perikles - 4,265,250 - 419 - Yes - shmupMAME v4.2

Video


Great first loop (only one death), started to crumble at 2-4 (and the second boss was almost done for...). Was surprised I could somehow limp myself all the way to 2-8, looks like I overestimated the difficulty of the checkpoints.

[KoopaTGR]

Kyukyoku Tiger
KoopaTGR - 1,382,260 - 164 - Yes - ShmupMAME v4.2

[KoopaTGR]

Arcade Twin Cobra (Normal)
KoopaTGR - 1,722,220 - 215 - Yes - 1P - ShmupMAME v4.2

[d0s]

Oh right, it has that too. Fire Shark also does that. I don't know what Toaplan or Taito or whoever were thinking with half these changes, I really don't.

Could the 3/4 bullets onscreen thing be due to the addition of two player? I'm not a programmer so this could be totally off but it could be some kind of optimization so two player doesn't get excessive slowdown.

[Despatche]

That makes sense. There's one obvious way to find out.

[d0s]

wow I should read the thread before commenting, another dude suggested the exact same thing

[d0s]

might as well post my kusoscore, I just got this board today

Twin Cobra, arcade
d0s - 680,050 - 117 - Yes - PCB

[Vludi]

Arcade Twin Cobra (Normal)
Vludi - 2,099,940 - 311 - No - 1P - MAME

Played a couple clueless credits and got a clear.

[Ruldra]

Kyukyoku Tiger - Arcade
Ruldra - 1,743,150 - 189 - Yes - 1P - ShmupMAME v4.2

I remember playing Twin Cobra years ago and took me only a few attempts to clear the loop. But Kyukyoku Tiger is a whole different story. Super slow ship + checkpoints makes things a lot harder. In this particular run I lost all my lives in the final checkpoint of stage 8.

[Despatche]

On the bright side, you don't have the brutal three-bullet limitation that Twin Cobra has...

Updated.

[Square_Air]

Square_Air - 1,744,260 - 190 - Yes - ShmupMAME v4.2

Slowly slogging through this.

[Despatche]

Very good first score.

[Square_Air]

Thanks. I was hoping to have a clear be the first thing I post here, but Kyukyoku Tiger is proving to be more challenging than I originally expected. I can no miss up to stage 7, but around there or stage 8 I always stumble and get fatally trapped in a chain death cycle. I still have no idea if anyone can recover on the last stage and still clear, the only technique I know for getting past the last boss is obtaining the 5-way spread and abusing the safespot.

[Perikles]

PCE version



Perikles – 4,489,750 – ALL – PC Engine Duo-R

Not a colossal improvement, but I never was satisfied that my ALL score was lower than the 2-10 score. You can actually counterstop the game if you manage to get the double K.O. on the second final boss, that's prohibitively difficult to do, however.

[Despatche]

This game isn't a total meme like Raiden Densetsu SFC is, so can we just agree to ban that I guess? Honestly, maybe we should ban the Raiden Densetsu trick too.

[Dumple]

Twin Cobra (twincobru)

Dumple - 1,892,440 - 275 - No - 1p - MAME 0.209

Finally got the Twin Cobra 1cc!