G.REV: Under Defeat [official]

[llabnip]

Or the DC and the GC. Did Ikaruga not teach anybody anything?

I don't think the Gamecube's Ikaruga was all that successful. The NGC just isn't the machine of choice for shooter fans... It's great that it was also released Stateside, but if the goal was to put it out on a console that was a still in production (the DC has ceased production almost a year before the game came out on Sega's console) they would have done much better to get it on the PS2 where it would have been enjoyed by a wider audience (both stateside and in Japan).

Sorry, I'm in a ranty mood today.

No problems here... I'm not happy either - I would have preferred seeing more G-Rev stuff on my beloved Dreamcast. And DC Naomi stuff is always top notch. But the sting isn't as bad for me... I've got a PS2 sitting next to my DC

[jp]

Or the DC and the GC. Did Ikaruga not teach anybody anything?

I don't think the Gamecube's Ikaruga was all that successful. The NGC just isn't the machine of choice for shooter fans... It's great that it was also released Stateside, but if the goal was to put it out on a console that was a still in production (the DC has ceased production almost a year before the game came out on Sega's console) they would have done much better to get it on the PS2 where it would have been enjoyed by a wider audience (both stateside and in Japan).

But obviously Treasure didn't find that (or porting RS) profitable now did they?

[llabnip]

But obviously Treasure didn't find that (or porting RS) profitable now did they?

Heh! Good point. Treasure seems to try and produce something for all of the consoles (even if just ports of games from other consoles)... but their best stuff never seems to end up on a Sony machine. I think we can all agree that Naomi games (with care) can generally be handled by the PS2 hardware but Treasure doesn't seem to be catering to the PS2. Treasure certianly loved Sega hardware (and with good reason) and maybe they just don't like having to deal with the Sony "machine" to try and get their 2D-ish games approved... I don't know. I still think the GC probably wasn't the best choice to get the widest audience for Ikaruga. Of all the actively sold consoles today, the PS2 must have the largest shooter fan-base by far (based on 3-4 quality new shooters arriving each year with no immediate end in sight).

[Ghegs]

I remember reading that porting Ikaruga to PS2 would've been too time-consuming - the GC (and DC, of course) port was a relatively simple job or something like that. For PS2 they would have had to program the game from scratch.

Or something to that effect. Could be I remember wrong, since Shikigami 2 got good ports all around.

[Kiken]

But obviously Treasure didn't find that (or porting RS) profitable now did they?

Heh! Good point. Treasure seems to try and produce something for all of the consoles (even if just ports of games from other consoles)... but their best stuff never seems to end up on a Sony machine. I think we can all agree that Naomi games (with care) can generally be handled by the PS2 hardware but Treasure doesn't seem to be catering to the PS2. Treasure certianly loved Sega hardware (and with good reason) and maybe they just don't like having to deal with the Sony "machine" to try and get their 2D-ish games approved... I don't know. I still think the GC probably wasn't the best choice to get the widest audience for Ikaruga. Of all the actively sold consoles today, the PS2 must have the largest shooter fan-base by far (based on 3-4 quality new shooters arriving each year with no immediate end in sight).

Again, Treasure ran into a lot of problems when they attempted to port Ikaruga to the PS2. Remember back in May of 2002... what did they say? "We won't be porting Ikaruga to the PS2."... meaning, they were attempting this port first (a working DC version had been in existance for several months by that point) but were encountering a lot of grief. No doubt they used the experience from attempting to port Ikaruga when they went to make Gradius 5.

And acutally, given the fact that SCEA are so awkward in allowing certain genres of games into the US... a GC release of Ikaruga was probably the most likely to be received by all territories (too bad it suffers from numerous glitches).


Back on topic though... according to my Engrish, it would appear that nowhere in that statement have G.Rev stated that they won't make a DC version of SnR. What they have stated is that they are currently weighing their options: release on DC to a smaller fanbase but on a system with VGA output, meaning the best possible image.... or release on the PS2 to a potentially larger fanbase with a slight compromise on visuals? I think the time required for either port would be able the same considering how much experience these guys have with handling DC releases as well as working with the PS2 (they gave Treasure a helping hand with G-5).

Once again... we're seeing this smoke-n-mirrors approach to homeports that we've seen with several of the prior shmup releases (all the confusion surrounding the potential of a homeport of Ikaruga back in 2002, and later, would SNS2 get a DC port after being released on every other console).

[D]

Why not release SnR with a free Dreamcast.



It is a joke, but it has some logic to it.
Will they do it?
Probably not, but something to think about.

[Diabollokus]

Kron, any chance of clearing this up?

I'm as annoyed as anyone if SNR is canned for DC, but until its confirmed 100% lets not give up so easilly.

[zyloj]

I suppose the perfect solution would be a ps2 and a dc release. The first one allows to access to a bigger market and a higher audience, and the second one is a cheap conversion with some sales to be profitable. Besides, it's a way to get some "legendary fame" with fans supporting an almost dead system (similar to neo geo in some terms).

[qatmix]

It doesnt say that there is no chance of a dreamcast version. It says they are considering its viability.

I would like to think it would appear on the dreamcast, and if Kron says it probably will, then I am inclined to believe him.

As peopel have already stated, this usually happens once a game has just been launched. Home versions are not on the top of the priority list for the developer at the moment.

Just hope they go for it.

[neoalphazero]

It sounds to me like they still want the game to see time as a arcade title and are being coy with home details in a effort to get people out to play the game. *-neo

[incognoscente]

Some low resolution (no, not in the good way :D ) videos from the AM show at hameko (#1719)

You'll want to rotate these clockwise (mplayer command line "-vf rotate=1")

• More bullets in stages 3 and 5 than in the videos we saw earlier.
• The bomb item? seems to be a wave of napalm that travels up the screen. It might look different in better resolution though.
• Boss death animations still take 15 seconds.
• In the stage 1 video, there is a slightly gratuitous pause after the player has been hit before the ship explodes. (almost as if to say: "see! that one. That's the bullet that hit you.") This pause doesn't appear when one player dies in a 2player game.
• Hit box is the smaller end of mid-sized. You can't dodge through a wall of bullets Mushihimesama-style, but you can still squeeze through some narrow-ish gaps.
• The new character graphics appear between stages.

Red pickups are bombs, the weapon? pickup cycles through three colors: yellow, green, blue.
The videos are not clear enough to make out any scoring information, except that there appears to be a stage-end bonus of some sort.
Sound is entirely unclear in the video. There is a bit of synth-rock playing, but it might be from another game.

[CMoon]

Thanks for posting those. Sure, the video quality is crap, but this looks like a GREAT game!

[biocat]

-Under Defeat
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 2353kk.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 4472po.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 4517if.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 4520kd.jpg

These are pics I took from the AM show. Enjoy!

[ST Dragon]

Actually, Under Defeat Should have been names: "Zero Gunner 3"

I've seen a video where you fight this huge war ship:



The explosion is cool, but what's more impressive, is the use of never before seen in a shooter, real life physics & meteorological effects, like rain & fog.
Also when the ship explodes, it gets cut in half & slowly begins to sink like it would in real life, rather than just scroll & magically disappear to the bottom of the screen, like in most other shooter bosses.

I hope this gets ported to the DC.

Has anybody played it on the arcades?
How well doesit play compared to Zero Gunner 1 & 2?
I never liked ZG1&2 much my self...

[chtimi-CLA]

this really looks great for a naomi game, much better than what type-x has shown so far. i'm also much more interested about it than senko no ronde.

[captain ahar]

[*]In the stage 1 video, there is a slightly gratuitous pause after the player has been hit before the ship explodes. (almost as if to say: "see! that one. That's the bullet that hit you.") This pause doesn't appear when one player dies in a 2player game.

this makes me think of sexy parodius... motherfucker. let me think i died in the cloud of bullets, not the fuckin mouse who wandered on screen.

[Rob]

Actually, Under Defeat Should have been names: "Zero Gunner 3"

No, not really, since usually sequels improve upon a concept.

[zyloj]

The official webpage was renewed with a lot of contents.

http://www.grev.co.jp/ud_ac/index.html

[ST Dragon]

This is an interesting, fictional world war map.



Obviously the game takes place in another fictional parallel universe...

Another story driven shooter with a cool plot, similar to ProGear by any chance?

And the chick on the left, she has a nice expression on her face. Very life like, not like an anime, almost looks real.

[Dylan1CC]

^^^

Nice, I'll second that the characters/presentation look a bit like a more "mature"/futuristic Progear. Here's hoping for a home port of some kind, DC would be ace of course.

[drsmoo]

is there anyway the videos can be reuploaded, I was able to see the video with the ship blowing up, but I believe there's another video that was posted that has since gone offline

[incognoscente]

If you don't have a premium account at RapidShare, you'll only be able to download one of these files each 60 minutes.
Also, RapidShare "will delete files that have not been accessed for 30 days or longer." Hopefully these will last longer than yousendit links and such (still, thanks for the effort, D!).

With that said:

• First loke test video (ship explosion)
• Second loke test video (airplane fight)
• AM 2005 Under Defeat media pack uploaded to hameko
  (As with most hameko files, you'll need WinRAR or a similar program to open .LZH archives.)

If you've never downloaded a file from RapidShare, scroll down to the bottom of the page where it says "Select your download:" and click the button marked "Free".
Toward the bottom of the next page, you'll see a countdown. When it reaches zero, there should be a link with the filename as the link text. Click it or use right-click>Save As.


Cheers.

[dave4shmups]

The official webpage was renewed with a lot of contents.

http://www.grev.co.jp/ud_ac/index.html

Wow, that is one awesome poster! I wonder if this will ever see a console release, given Sega's announcement about no more official DC ports. Perhaps 360?

[Randorama]

Random note of the week: Incognoscente, do you happen to have any knoweldge about the score system...?

[highlandcattle]

I wonder if this will ever see a console release, given Sega's announcement about no more official DC ports.

Hey, when was that announced? I think i missed that.

On another note why are people still wondered if games will/or not get home releases every shooter from the last five years has gotten a home port (with the exception of ketsui and G-stream perhaps)

[drsmoo]

Thanks!

[incognoscente]

You're welcome, drsmoo.


Randorama: I [didn't at the time of writing], sorry.
I do have pictures of a poster from the AM show that might reveal something about the game system aside from scoring, but I would need to ask for someone else to translate or summarize it:
#1 #2 #3
Bonus image showing control scheme.


GaijinPunch, twe, Seven Force, or anyone else with reading knowledge of Japanese: if you're reading and want to have a go at especially image #3, it would be much appreciated :)

[incognoscente]

I was adding this information to the end of the previous post. I've broken it into a new post to give it a slightly better flow.


am.sega.jp was updated with Under Defeat information including:

• Some extra video coverage.
• Scoring information:
  • Enemies shot down with options are worth 2X.
  • There is no powering up(?), only switching shot/option types. If you pick up an icon of the same type as the weapon in use, you receive 5,000 points.
  • 6 bombs may be held at a time. Each additional bomb icon picked up will give 10,000 points.
  • End-of-stage bonus:
    • Shot down percent * [300-(player ships remaining*100) with a minimum value of 100 if there are more than 2 ships remaining] [*2 if Shot Down percent is 100]
    • boss time remaining in seconds, rounded down, * 1,000
    • bomb stock * 10,000
  • (? I may not be understanding this:) Colliding with or bombing an enemy nets no points, though an enemy defeated by shooting during the bomb's duration will give points.

Overview/opinion:
Game prefers bomb conservation, elimination of all threats, and a rapid takedown of bosses, similar to Raiden DX.
However, the end of stage bonus prefers you to do the game on your last life instead of your first, which reminds me a little of Border Down discussions. :)

[Dave_K.]

That first stage video on their site looked pretty sweet!

[Damocles]

Kind of reminds me of Avenger on the PCE-CD. Who knows how well the ability to lock your firing angle will be implemented though.