XRGB-mini Framemeister

[axlblazeadam]

Update 2.02 is out!
http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm

rough translation of what's new:
- In SD resolution, solved an issue where the left and right edge of the screen might be cut off.
- Adjusted filter setting when screen is in "x2" mode.

Wow, what a dissapointing update.
Hoped for so much more...

[CkRtech]

Wow, what a dissapointing update.
Hoped for so much more...

What sort of things were you hoping to see?

[amaradona]

proper 1080p scanlines and better management of the 480i

[Thomago]

What sort of things were you hoping to see?

Is this meant as some kind of poll? Cause there are plenty of annoyances that need to fixed.

[TheShadowRunner]

What sort of things were you hoping to see?

Is this meant as some kind of poll? Cause there are plenty of annoyances that need to fixed.

Not sure, but this is clearly the right place to discuss those annoyances, what are they?
My main issue remaining is the 240p <> 480i switch delay, but this is certainly hardware and cannot be fixed..

[pyrotek85]

What sort of things were you hoping to see?

Is this meant as some kind of poll? Cause there are plenty of annoyances that need to fixed.

Not sure, but this is clearly the right place to discuss those annoyances, what are they?
My main issue remaining is the 240p <> 480i switch delay, but this is certainly hardware and cannot be fixed..

I'm hopeful they'll make a new model within a few years for that reason, but it might still be too soon for that.

[FBX]

My top 3 fixes they need to make for starters:

1. Incorrect RGB color output in HDMI mode (nuke greens in SMW and Mario 64).

2. That "flutter" noise mostly seen in solid colors.

3. 480p false contouring removed.

[Thomago]

My top 5 fixes:

1. The ever-present LPF (that one's on top cause I think implementing an option to control/disable the LPF would be a piece of cake if anybody cared)
2. The noise on solid colors (already mentioned by FBX)
3. The heavy scan mode switch delay (already mentioned by TheShadowRunner)
4. The 480p "false countouring"-bug (already mentioned by FBX)
5. The poor vertical scaling (anything but integer-scaling looks like sh*t)

[Braca862]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I have a Sony Bravia 40" KDL40W600B LED TV. I recently got the framemeister xrgb and I have 10 consoles, which are:

-NES
-Super NES
-Sega CDX
-PS1
-N64
-Dreamcast
-PS2
-Gamecube
-Xbox 360
-PS4

Of the ten, only the Super NES, CDX, and PS1 are connected to the Framemeister via euroSCART cables with csync, and so far, they picture looks fantastic, almost like playing on an emulator. The PS2 is connected directly to the TV via component cable, and the 360 and PS4 are connected directly to the TV via HDMI. Soon, I'll buy a pre-modded RGB N64, since the current one I have has the serial # NS2, which cannot be modded to RGB. I'm gonna have to wait a long time to have someone mod my NES or buy a pre-modded NES, as I have no skills to mod it myself. I currently have no idea how to add the Gamecube on the list, and I'll soon buy a VGA box for the Dreamcast.

I do have a couple of questions:

1. What settings for the framemeister can you recommend to me based on my TV?

2. Whenever I turn on a system, there seems to be some kind of delay. For instance, when I turn on the PS1, the framemesiter losses signal for several seconds, which skips the entire startup bootscreen. Is there a way to fix this? This also happens on the Super NES and CDX, but when I reset those two consoles, they start up fine.

3. Are there ways to adjust the screen size without degrading the quality? I've noticed that the picture thens to be more clearly when the screen size is SMART_X1.

4. Is there a way to remove all that dithering that is plaguing the PS1? The SCART cable I have for it has Luma.

5. When I do get a VGA box for the dreamcast, how do I connect it to the framemeister?

6. How come the earlier N64 consoles can be easily modded to RGB, while the later ones with the NS2 serial numbers cannot?

[axlblazeadam]

All of the above and some really easy to fix updates like:

- no need to power up the XRGB twice to read the inserted SD card
- longer names for saved profiles

[zakruowrath]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I have a Sony Bravia 40" KDL40W600B LED TV. I recently got the framemeister xrgb and I have 10 consoles, which are:

-NES
-Super NES
-Sega CDX
-PS1
-N64
-Dreamcast
-PS2
-Gamecube
-Xbox 360
-PS4

Of the ten, only the Super NES, CDX, and PS1 are connected to the Framemeister via euroSCART cables with csync, and so far, they picture looks fantastic, almost like playing on an emulator. The PS2 is connected directly to the TV via component cable, and the 360 and PS4 are connected directly to the TV via HDMI. Soon, I'll buy a pre-modded RGB N64, since the current one I have has the serial # NS2, which cannot be modded to RGB. I'm gonna have to wait a long time to have someone mod my NES or buy a pre-modded NES, as I have no skills to mod it myself. I currently have no idea how to add the Gamecube on the list, and I'll soon buy a VGA box for the Dreamcast.

I do have a couple of questions:

1. What settings for the framemeister can you recommend to me based on my TV?

2. Whenever I turn on a system, there seems to be some kind of delay. For instance, when I turn on the PS1, the framemesiter losses signal for several seconds, which skips the entire startup bootscreen. Is there a way to fix this? This also happens on the Super NES and CDX, but when I reset those two consoles, they start up fine.

3. Are there ways to adjust the screen size without degrading the quality? I've noticed that the picture thens to be more clearly when the screen size is SMART_X1.

4. Is there a way to remove all that dithering that is plaguing the PS1? The SCART cable I have for it has Luma.

5. When I do get a VGA box for the dreamcast, how do I connect it to the framemeister?

6. How come the earlier N64 consoles can be easily modded to RGB, while the later ones with the NS2 serial numbers cannot?

I can answer a few of those questions for you and others here in the fourm can recommend settings that can help you. You can also visit http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER for some recommended settings.

Question 2: This is due to the framemeister locking on to the sync signal. If most of your signals are 240p there's an option in the menu which is SYNC_SET > SYNC_MODE and usually it's on AUTO. If you turn that to OFF then when you switch between say the PS1, CDX, SNES the signal most of the time be instant on being 240p usually has the same composite sync signal range across the board, however if you have a console that can output 480i like the N64 or Dreamcast the signal will be lost briefly and re-synced to the 480i sync signal. I usually leave the setting to AUTO since nothing important happens in the first few seconds of the framemeister syncing.

Question 3: I believe Smart X1 is the native signal scaled to 480p and it's pixel to pixel so it's matching the 1080p, 720p signal pixel by pixel.

Question 5: The Toro is the best VGA box you can buy for the Dreamcast, it can output 240p, 480i or 480p over Euro SCART and it combines the Horizontal and Vertical signals to composite sync so you would just hook it up like any other Euro SCART device to the framemeister. http://www.beharbros.com/#!toro/cfom

Question 6: The earlier N64 consoles have a Digital to Analogue chip shown here by RetroRGB http://retrorgb.com/n64rgbcompatible.html that has analogue RGB natively on its pins, it was just never connected to the multi-out on the motherboard.



However there is a new N64 RGB Mod board that will work on ANY Nintendo 64 regardless of what revision or serial number you have. It's made by the same guy who made the NESRGB and is inexpensive. http://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=20 ... how_detail If your in Europe, Otaku made a mod before Tim that does the exact same thing. http://www.otakus-store.net/en/see-all- ... b-mod.html Both boards take the digital video signal and convert it to analogue that can be used by the XRGB Framemeister.

From Tim's Website: http://etim.net.au/n64rgb/instructions-new/


Finally there is a brand new mod that just came out called the UltraHDMI which adds HDMI straight to the Nintendo 64's video processor. UltraHDMI makes the video sharper than the framemeister, has some custom settings tailored directly to the N64 video signals and doesn't lose sync between the 240p and 480i video signals. The results are simply stunning, here's some info about it from RetroRGB:

http://retrorgb.com/ultrahdmi.html



Hope this helps somehow

[Guspaz]

NTSC GameCube video options:

- Composite video (240p/480i natively)
- S-Video (240p/480i natively)
- Component video (240p/480i/480p natively with OEM Nintendo cable and digital out GC model)
- RGB (240p/480i via modded OEM Nintendo cable and digital out GC model)
- HDMI (240p/480i/480p via GCVideo mod)

The OEM Nintendo component cable costs hundreds of dollars (it's rare), so that's a factor. The RGB thing is ill advised because it requires tearing apart a very expensive component cable, and produces no improvement in quality. There was something teased about a "plug and play" version of the HDMI mod, but then people were saying not to expect a new cable that can plug into the digital AV port, so it's probably just some easier to install internal mod. It seems like the dream of a new cable that plugs into the digital AV port will never happen (it seems nobody can source the connector).

For people playing on PVMs, the only option that I'm aware of is either to use an S-Video cable (very cheap) or the component cables (like $200+?).

[zakruowrath]

NTSC GameCube video options:

- Composite video (240p/480i natively)
- S-Video (240p/480i natively)
- Component video (240p/480i/480p natively with OEM Nintendo cable and digital out GC model)
- RGB (240p/480i via modded OEM Nintendo cable and digital out GC model)
- HDMI (240p/480i/480p via GCVideo mod)

The OEM Nintendo component cable costs hundreds of dollars (it's rare), so that's a factor. The RGB thing is ill advised because it requires tearing apart a very expensive component cable, and produces no improvement in quality. There was something teased about a "plug and play" version of the HDMI mod, but then people were saying not to expect a new cable that can plug into the digital AV port, so it's probably just some easier to install internal mod. It seems like the dream of a new cable that plugs into the digital AV port will never happen (it seems nobody can source the connector).

For people playing on PVMs, the only option that I'm aware of is either to use an S-Video cable (very cheap) or the component cables (like $200+?).

There is this that could be a possibility in the future just have find a way to fit a GCVideo board in that small space, redesign the board to fit, make an external box or make the housing larger possibly.

http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/gcv ... 64/page-11

[Guspaz]

Interesting, and on top of that I do see some people built some homebrew connectors.

The GCVideo board isn't very large, and could be smaller if it was purpose-built for component, got rid of the spare headers (and maybe the JTAG headers?) and built 4-layer instead of 2-layer. Then it could fit in an overwrap along the cable as the HDR guys are doing.

[Unseen]

got rid of the spare headers (and maybe the JTAG headers?)

That means you'd have to program the FPGA before soldering it to the board. Possible, but I'm not sure if it's advisable - the options are either a quite expensive test socket, temporarily soldering the chip to the programmer or placing it on a PCB and applying a bit of pressure during programming.

You could drastically reduce the size of the JTAG connector by changing it to 1.27mm pitch or if you want even less pins, the XO2 can also be programmed via I2C.

and built 4-layer instead of 2-layer.

Actually it is a 4-layer board, the two internal layers are for supply only though. It was probably an unnecessary luxury. =)

[Braca862]

Also, is there a way to remove the genesis' infamous overscan borders as well as those strange dots at the bottom of the screen?

[Cosmonal]

Also, is there a way to remove the genesis' infamous overscan borders as well as those strange dots at the bottom of the screen?

Yes there is, and this channel (Implant Games) has a great series about the Framemeister, with nice suggestions. This one is exactly what you're looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-8SsENZYw

Hope it helps!

[Braca862]

Does anyone know of any SCART switch boxes that is recommended for use with the framemeister? It would be nice to have one for convenience, just like the composite switch boxes.

[Bobster]

Does anyone know of any SCART switch boxes that is recommended for use with the framemeister? It would be nice to have one for convenience, just like the composite switch boxes.

There's nothing really great yet for SCART switches. I know a bunch of us are waiting for a project on Assemblergames to get completed. Luckily after all this time waiting it looks like this month or next he'll have distributors ready to go.

http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/gsc ... tch.52513/

[pyrotek85]

Does anyone know of any SCART switch boxes that is recommended for use with the framemeister? It would be nice to have one for convenience, just like the composite switch boxes.

There's nothing really great yet for SCART switches. I know a bunch of us are waiting for a project on Assemblergames to get completed. Luckily after all this time waiting it looks like this month or next he'll have distributors ready to go.

http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/gsc ... tch.52513/

Yup, that's the one I'm waiting for too, seems to be a crapshoot otherwise as you said. I think an 8-way SCART is almost unheard of otherwise, much less one that's specifically made with retro gaming in mind. Sounds like we'll actually be able to order it within a couple months too, I anxious to finally get one.

[FBX]

Also, is there a way to remove the genesis' infamous overscan borders as well as those strange dots at the bottom of the screen?

Yes there is, and this channel (Implant Games) has a great series about the Framemeister, with nice suggestions. This one is exactly what you're looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-8SsENZYw

Hope it helps!

He gets those techniques from my own work on how the Visual-Set functions can be used to create masks (and I'm not just claiming this, I've spoken to him before on Youtube and he freely admits to making videos based on my work). Anyway, it's not easy to do at all if you want integer-perfect profiles with full masking as it takes a LOT of trial and error to land on the perfect combination.

Here's the original video I did explaining the masked integer-based profiles for the Genesis/Mega Drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVEEw79ELM

[Braca862]

Also, I tried turning off Sync, but I still have that delay at boot up.

[Cosmonal]

Also, is there a way to remove the genesis' infamous overscan borders as well as those strange dots at the bottom of the screen?

Yes there is, and this channel (Implant Games) has a great series about the Framemeister, with nice suggestions. This one is exactly what you're looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-8SsENZYw

Hope it helps!

He gets those techniques from my own work on how the Visual-Set functions can be used to create masks (and I'm not just claiming this, I've spoken to him before on Youtube and he freely admits to making videos based on my work). Anyway, it's not easy to do at all if you want integer-perfect profiles with full masking as it takes a LOT of trial and error to land on the perfect combination.

Here's the original video I did explaining the masked integer-based profiles for the Genesis/Mega Drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVEEw79ELM

That's nice to know, FBX. Kris has a great channel going and it's great to know that we all get along

I'm like you -- make my own profiles based on my personal preferences, and I mostly play while capturing on my Blackmagic -- so Framemeister must be set to be loved from Blackmagic Intensity; that means sync should be locked and 720p@60 only

I'm on of the "4:3 only" guys, so what I did was mark the TV (a small marker with some ink) on the 4:3 aspect and stretch perfectly to that aspect, all the consoles -- I personally don't mind not being perfect multiply resolution. Anyway, the Implant Games video I recommended will do just great for the guy because it shows exactly how to get rid of the Genesis borders.

Watching your video now, thanks for all your hard work at Pixel Purist, I'm always learning with you guys!

[zakruowrath]

Also, I tried turning off Sync, but I still have that delay at boot up.

At initial start up from the XRGB stand by mode (Red Light Pulsing), it will take a couple of seconds to find the sync signal. If you leave the XRGB on and change the SYNC_SET > SYNC_TIME to 10 (seconds) or 100 (seconds) you can quickly switch to another 240p source and it will keep the sync timing. If the delay really bothers you set it to 100 seconds and you will have 100 Seconds to change the signal from one 240p source to another.

However to my knowledge, there is no way to keep the sync signal timing when you put the XRGB into stand by, so anytime you start up a console and turn on the XRGB from stand by mode, you will have to wait the couple of seconds for the XRGB to find the sync signal. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone

[noonan2678]

damn, Ultra HDMI does sound really great, but my guy's saying $250 installed and that's way more than i like my N64, haha

It's an obsession with wanting the best possible picture, isn't it? I think I spent something like $400 on the N64 this past year in regards to that, and I don't really care for the system myself. There's only like 10 games in the N64 library I actually enjoy playing, and most of those have been ported already or soon will be.

Haha, exactly the same for me. N64 is prob my least favorite retro console and I already have it RGB modded to a PVM and a Mini, but still intrigued by this. I more curious in how the image quality compares directly to a PVM via RGB. If anyone has any comparison shots of those, that would be great.

[austin532]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I have a Sony Bravia 40" KDL40W600B LED TV. I recently got the framemeister xrgb and I have 10 consoles, which are:

-NES
-Super NES
-Sega CDX
-PS1
-N64
-Dreamcast
-PS2
-Gamecube
-Xbox 360
-PS4

Of the ten, only the Super NES, CDX, and PS1 are connected to the Framemeister via euroSCART cables with csync, and so far, they picture looks fantastic, almost like playing on an emulator. The PS2 is connected directly to the TV via component cable, and the 360 and PS4 are connected directly to the TV via HDMI. Soon, I'll buy a pre-modded RGB N64, since the current one I have has the serial # NS2, which cannot be modded to RGB. I'm gonna have to wait a long time to have someone mod my NES or buy a pre-modded NES, as I have no skills to mod it myself. I currently have no idea how to add the Gamecube on the list, and I'll soon buy a VGA box for the Dreamcast.

I do have a couple of questions:

1. What settings for the framemeister can you recommend to me based on my TV?

2. Whenever I turn on a system, there seems to be some kind of delay. For instance, when I turn on the PS1, the framemesiter losses signal for several seconds, which skips the entire startup bootscreen. Is there a way to fix this? This also happens on the Super NES and CDX, but when I reset those two consoles, they start up fine.

3. Are there ways to adjust the screen size without degrading the quality? I've noticed that the picture thens to be more clearly when the screen size is SMART_X1.

4. Is there a way to remove all that dithering that is plaguing the PS1? The SCART cable I have for it has Luma.

5. When I do get a VGA box for the dreamcast, how do I connect it to the framemeister?

6. How come the earlier N64 consoles can be easily modded to RGB, while the later ones with the NS2 serial numbers cannot?

You have the same TV as me but as far as your questions:

1. This depends on what system you are playing. I recommend using FBX's profiles as they are square pixel based.

3. Again just use FBX's profile for the current system you are playing on.

4. God, I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates this problem as well. Unfortunately no there is not much you can do to hide it. Turning on scanlines and setting H-Scaler way up to like 14-15 helps but that's about all you can do to minimize it.

5. I agree with everyone else and recommend getting the Toro.

[zakruowrath]

damn, Ultra HDMI does sound really great, but my guy's saying $250 installed and that's way more than i like my N64, haha

It's an obsession with wanting the best possible picture, isn't it? I think I spent something like $400 on the N64 this past year in regards to that, and I don't really care for the system myself. There's only like 10 games in the N64 library I actually enjoy playing, and most of those have been ported already or soon will be.

Haha, exactly the same for me. N64 is prob my least favorite retro console and I already have it RGB modded to a PVM and a Mini, but still intrigued by this. I more curious in how the image quality compares directly to a PVM via RGB. If anyone has any comparison shots of those, that would be great.

My Life In Gaming on YouTube did a pretty in depth review of the unit showing the difference between Regular RGB on a CRT and a PVM and then XRGB and UltraHDMI skip to 11:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpy1M6v2_MI

And RetroRGB did some comparison footage and screenshots on his website:

http://retrorgb.com/ultrahdmi.html

[noonan2678]

My Life In Gaming on YouTube did a pretty in depth review of the unit showing the difference between Regular RGB on a CRT and a PVM and then XRGB and UltraHDMI skip to 11:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpy1M6v2_MI

And RetroRGB did some comparison footage and screenshots on his website:

http://retrorgb.com/ultrahdmi.html

Very cool....thanks! Seemingly, you can run this alongside an RGB mod. That would work for me as I have a PVM and then an LCD a chair turn away. I just spin my chair if I want to use the Frame. Hoping that both outputs could be hooked up simultaneously...

[BuckoA51]

Very cool....thanks! Seemingly, you can run this alongside an RGB mod. That would work for me as I have a PVM and then an LCD a chair turn away. I just spin my chair if I want to use the Frame. Hoping that both outputs could be hooked up simultaneously...

I believe that's only really practical for those N64s that can be RGB modded using the basic THS7314 RGB amp.

There's nothing really great yet for SCART switches. I know a bunch of us are waiting for a project on Assemblergames to get completed. Luckily after all this time waiting it looks like this month or next he'll have distributors ready to go.

Excited to finally get going with this, I've made sure not to take on other major projects in Jan/Feb so I can get switches out to everyone in Europe.

[noonan2678]

Very cool....thanks! Seemingly, you can run this alongside an RGB mod. That would work for me as I have a PVM and then an LCD a chair turn away. I just spin my chair if I want to use the Frame. Hoping that both outputs could be hooked up simultaneously...

I believe that's only really practical for those N64s that can be RGB modded using the basic THS7314 RGB amp.

Yes, makes sense. That's what I currently have.