XRGB-mini Framemeister

[mremulator]

I've just connected my XRGB-mini to my Panasonic Plasma (latest model before plasma was phased out).

Anyway, I noticed that with my RGB NTSC N64, scrolling text boxes in games (Yoshi, Super Mario etc.) seem to tear/ripple.
However, the rest of the screen seems OK?

I've checked the settings... Picture & Game both being used along with 720p.

Any suggestions please?

[Skips]

Would you mind taking an additional snapshot of similar content with overscan on the TV enabled ? I'd like to see how it compares to the 1:3 integer scaling ratio you get without any overscan.

You mean have the "wide" Setting set to normal? The TV doesnt list its image stretching options as overscan.

[Skips]

This is with the TV set to "Normal" Instead of "full" like I had it. Scanlines and whatnot are still spot on. In fact all stretching options on the TV do not seem to fuck up the scaling. This TV is freaking great so far. Colors are amazing and once calibrated the blacks are super deep. Blacks on this thing look like the LCD panel is off. Avoid the 65 inch version of the TV though, it uses an IPS panel so the blacks are not as deep on it. I saw the 65 inch version in action and it wasn't as good looking as the 55 inch one.

[Smashbro29]

Not on mine. In fact they look about the same, with the only difference between the two images is the before pic has more saturation.

That's so odd. I even asked around and most others said the first one was almost neon and the second looked a lot better.

[FBX]

Not on mine. In fact they look about the same, with the only difference between the two images is the before pic has more saturation.

That's so odd. I even asked around and most others said the first one was almost neon and the second looked a lot better.

Dunno. Mine is calibrated via the usual here:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

And everything passes with flying colors (no pun intended) according to those tests.

[Smashbro29]

Not on mine. In fact they look about the same, with the only difference between the two images is the before pic has more saturation.

That's so odd. I even asked around and most others said the first one was almost neon and the second looked a lot better.

Dunno. Mine is calibrated via the usual here:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

And everything passes with flying colors (no pun intended) according to those tests.

Either way, what I have now is deemed "good enough" on the grounds that I don't see how I can improve it.

I have the correct aspect ratio, nothing cropped, okay-ish colors.

[FBX]

YUP! They all upscale fantastically. The up-scaling on this TV was one of the major deciding factors when I purchased it. Even 240p content is not too terrible on this TV.

I'm wondering what amount of lag the TV might be adding since it's having to upscale even the 1080p image. We'd need some benchmark tests.

[Xyga]

About 2 frames, that's what this year's Sony models with Android do, well those that have been tested at least.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x810c
That's already upscaled of course since the LB tester don't output more than 1080p.
Anyway upscaling classic pc and hdtv resolutions today doesn't add much lag, or so little it doesn't matter.
The TV does 35ms, upscaling or not.

The only thing that will probably add more lag is interlaced content, but normally Sony sets let you choose between fully deinterlaced and fast (blurry) field scaling.

This is honestly this year's best 4K set for games (afaik), unless people want something smaller or with even less lag and take the risk to go Samsung (and/or Vizio in the US).

[RGB32E]

Not really technical discussion but I just recently got a Sony XBR55X810C and the XRGB Looks amazing on it. Just wanted to post some pictures of it running on it. These are in 720p with scanlines on. I freaking love this TV.

Congrats! IIRC the X810C is a late 2015 model. When I checked out the X940C earlier this year I tested it with a PS4 outputting 1080p and noticed chroma subsampling artifacts when playing Axiom Verge (mild ringing on pixel color transitions), even in game mode. The issue was worse on the X950B, so I'm wondering if the X810C has made additional improvements over the X940C regarding scaling of graphics?

http://imgur.com/Stp68IW

Care to share some XRGB-mini 1080p 5x scale pictures of your set (no scanlines)?

[Smashbro29]

Hey FBX I might be behind the curve on this but why is there only a 4x profile for N64?

[Rongolian]

Cross posting from the Neogaf thread to share some scanline settings!

Well, I've been really trying to narrow down how to make my XRGB Mini's scanlines look as BVM-like as possible. I truly think, for retro gaming, the BVM gets scanlines just right. I used photos like the one taken by Fudoh below for reference:



Posting the images here since they didn't embed very nicely:

http://imgur.com/a/xwGzu

First image: Using FBX's SNES 4x integer scaling profile, input RGB via SCART, output at 1080p, without scanlines

Second image: After using the recommended settings for scanlines, INT_LINE: 80 and INT_SMOOTH: 100, the output gives pretty washed out scanlines

Third image: After tweaking with the settings, setting INT_LINE: 0, INT_SMOOTH: 90, and boosting the Gamma to 30 to compensate for darkening of the image


Keep in mind these were all taken with a cell phone camera, but you can see that you can get very close to BVM-like scanlines by modifying these two scanline parameters.

I'll probably keep tweaking them, but for now I'm pretty happy with these results. Feel free to try these settings, and let me know if you have any additional tweaks!

[austin532]

The default of 80 and 100 doesn't quite look right. I had to tweak mine to 40 INT LINE and 86 INT SMOOTH to get a more natural looking CRT look.

[TheShadowRunner]

This is with the TV set to "Normal" Instead of "full" like I had it. Scanlines and whatnot are still spot on. In fact all stretching options on the TV do not seem to fuck up the scaling. This TV is freaking great so far. Colors are amazing and once calibrated the blacks are super deep. Blacks on this thing look like the LCD panel is off. Avoid the 65 inch version of the TV though, it uses an IPS panel so the blacks are not as deep on it. I saw the 65 inch version in action and it wasn't as good looking as the 55 inch one.

Stunning pics man, I wonder what's the equivalent model number for your XBR for the EURO market.

[nissling]

Rongolian: Thanks for you scanlines settings. I tweaked some myself (haven't used my Mini in a while) and picture got great. I'm using a first gen Super Famicom with no mods whatsoever. When I took the Super Metroid capture I hadn't made all the changes in brightness so there is some black crush but currently it's gone. This is indeed a very sane choice over a CRT monitor, and that comes from someone with two BVMs.

[FBX]

The 80/100 settings weren't anything special. Just left them that way after playing around with the values on them. I thought the washed out look reminded me of the typical CRT scanline having a bit of color bleeding into the blank gap between the line. But of course YMMV on what the best scanline settings are. I may try out some of the other settings posted to see if I like em.

In answer to the N64 4xscale question: I recall it was because the N64 badly needs scanlines to look 'somewhat' better, and 5x scale scanlines look terrible (way too thin). There's also the issue of quite a bit of graphics getting cut off on 5x scale of 240 vertical res, though I suppose some games will lose less, like Mario 64's 224 vert res. I suppose I could work up a 5x scale profile if there is interest, but as mentioned you won't be able to use decent scanlines with it.

[RGB32E]

Using the N64 with the XRGB-mini is so passé, given that the UltraHDMI kit has perfect integer scaling up to 5x, de-blur (640x -> 320x), lower input lag than the mini, instant 240p/480i switching, and better 1080p scanlines with CRT effects.

I suppose I could work up a 5x scale profile if there is interest, but as mentioned you won't be able to use decent scanlines with it.

Why bother? Besides, all you really need is Zoom settings set to default with the exception of Zoom_Level set to 90.

[FBX]

Using the N64 with the XRGB-mini is so passé, given that the UltraHDMI kit has perfect integer scaling up to 5x, de-blur (640x -> 320x), lower input lag than the mini, instant 240p/480i switching, and better 1080p scanlines with CRT effects.

I suppose I could work up a 5x scale profile if there is interest, but as mentioned you won't be able to use decent scanlines with it.

Why bother? Besides, all you really need is Zoom settings set to default with the exception of Zoom_Level set to 90.

Very true about UltraHDMI. Everyone it going to have to scrap their old RGB mods and get that going as it makes the N64 look so much better.


Anyway, what is "Zoom_Level"?

[RGB32E]

You may know it better as Zoom_Size in the latest FWs.

[bacardi]

Does anyone know if this can be bought in retail stores in Japan? I'm heading there in May. Of course by then there could be a new version out, but I was wondering if this is only sold online?

[juji82]

you can buy at shops in akihabara and probably osaka too

[bacardi]

you can buy at shops in akihabara and probably osaka too

Good to know, thanks

[blizzz]

Not sure if it was already mentioned in this thread, but Solaris Japan added a really good offer for European customers. 305.05€ for the Framemeister incl shipping and tax with shipping from Munich. For German customers who have to pay 19% import tax that's 40€ cheaper than their normal option with shipping from Japan.

[scottmog]

Geez that TV looks amazing compared to my crappy RCA 55 inch LOL.

Next TV we buy I need to not cheap out.

[FBX]

Next TV we buy I need to not cheap out.

Truth. I recently bought my parents a 55 inch LG for $600, and while they love it, I was put off by the picture quality not being up to par with my older Sony of the same size. Another thing that ticked me off was discovering LG does this "global dimming" thing that cannot be shut off. On some sets you can trick it off by changing the input name to "PC" and then adjusting the black level settings, but for most average consumers, they are butt-f***ed into that 'feature' being on all the time.

[Xyga]

Save for their OLED sets, LG have been doing worse displays since about 2014.
Too bad because their previous IPS sets were decent all-round entry-level for people who didn't want to put too much into a TV.

[Guspaz]

I remember years ago when I used to belong to the university anime club, we had a 32" Sony LCD television, a 720p model. Quality-wise it was great, 720p was super sharp considering the screen size and viewing distance, and we were very happy. Except... dynamic contrast drove us nuts. Whenever there was a dark scene, the television would dim the backlight to like 10% brightness. On normal film content, that was fine, and on most games it wasn't an issue, but then somebody tried to play Zelda II, and the dungeons have black backgrounds... So the TV decided that it would nearly turn off the backlight the entire time he was in the dungeons. There was no way to disable it and the game was unplayable because you couldn't see what you were doing.

[AndehX]

Next TV we buy I need to not cheap out.

Truth. I recently bought my parents a 55 inch LG for $600, and while they love it, I was put off by the picture quality not being up to par with my older Sony of the same size. Another thing that ticked me off was discovering LG does this "global dimming" thing that cannot be shut off. On some sets you can trick it off by changing the input name to "PC" and then adjusting the black level settings, but for most average consumers, they are butt-f***ed into that 'feature' being on all the time.

Best solution tho, is to just not buy an LG TV. They are average quality at best, and are aimed at the mass consumer. They're not really aimed at people like us, or "enthusiast" users.

[G-sonic67]

Hello everyone
I'm at my wits end. I finally got an XRGB mini. I hooked up the US Snes mini using a Japanese RGB-cable from retrogamingcables that plugs right into the RGB adaptor that came with the XRGBMini. I use a standard HDMI cable that I tested on an Xbox 360 with which it works fine. I get no image at all. The power light of the XRGBmini is on but that's it. There's never a light beneath 'input'. When no consoles are hooked up I don't get a screen that says 'no input'. It's as if, to my TV, nothing is plugged in, it's just a regular black screen that says HDMI1. What am I doing wrong here? This is depressing

[Smashbro29]

In answer to the N64 4xscale question: I recall it was because the N64 badly needs scanlines to look 'somewhat' better, and 5x scale scanlines look terrible (way too thin). There's also the issue of quite a bit of graphics getting cut off on 5x scale of 240 vertical res, though I suppose some games will lose less, like Mario 64's 224 vert res. I suppose I could work up a 5x scale profile if there is interest, but as mentioned you won't be able to use decent scanlines with it.

Makes sense. 4x is good enough I guess.

"Just get UltraHDMI"

Doesn't that not do scanlines without lag?

[austin532]

Just 1 frame I believe which is still faster than going RGB through the frameister.