XRGB-mini Framemeister

[nissling]

My XRGB-Mini have collected dust for a few months since I started with BVMs and PVMs earlier this year. So yesterday I decided to update with FW 2.0A and see what it looked like. I had completely forgotten what a great scaler it is. I'm currently playing Rockman X3 for the Saturn with the Mini, on a 50" plasma along with a pair of Ino piP. Wonderful presentation all around and I really love it. Of course I don't regret buying a BVM-20F1 (don't give me wrong, it's fantastic in its own way) but now when you get proper scanlines in 1080p and can save/load profiles it's probably the most convenient way to get the best picture out of retro consoles.

[austin532]

When saving FBX's profiles to the SD card, it seems you need to manually move them to the EEP Data. Copy and Paste does not seem to work.

[Cnop]

Hello All,

I've spent the past week trying to read as much of this posting as possible before DAY 1 of my XRGB life.
My priority for this project is Snes/nes/SMS/Genesis hookup RGB to XRGB to a Sony KDL-NX810
Just did some initial setup and i thank you all for having a good idea what i was doing.

I have tried using two separate SNES systems thru a "Super Nintendo stereo RGB SCART lead SNES CSYNC FULL SHIELD, GROUNDED cable" purchased from retro_console_accessories on Ebay which from what I read are a good choice of cables.

The instant issue i have is a vertical smear/bleed/drag which is about the most annoying thing i have ever seen.



Any help ? I'm sure this is something basic i am looking past as the setting options are intimidating.

[KeenanW]

I also had an issue with FBX's profiles not showing up. Here's how I fixed it:

1) Extract the files from the zip to a folder on the PC
2) Copy & paste the files to the EEPData folder
3) Load the SD card to the Framemeister, boot it twice.
4) Put the SD card back into PC, run DriveSort
4a) Sort by Long Name on the EEPData folder, save it
5) Put the SD card back in the Framemeister, boot it twice.

All profiles show and are now in alphabetical order.

[zak]

Does anyone know what causes this to happen with Framemeister?

http://postimg.org/image/f931vsq6r/

http://postimg.org/image/r9jwis87n/

[eightbitminiboss]

Does anyone know what causes this to happen with Framemeister?

http://postimg.org/image/f931vsq6r/

http://postimg.org/image/r9jwis87n/

Sync?

[austin532]

Another problem I am noticing with profiles is if you save your modified settings to that profile it will show up on the top of the list when you want to load it. Meaning FBX's profiles will be out of order. Anyway around this?

[Shining]

Hello All,

I've spent the past week trying to read as much of this posting as possible before DAY 1 of my XRGB life.
My priority for this project is Snes/nes/SMS/Genesis hookup RGB to XRGB to a Sony KDL-NX810
Just did some initial setup and i thank you all for having a good idea what i was doing.

I have tried using two separate SNES systems thru a "Super Nintendo stereo RGB SCART lead SNES CSYNC FULL SHIELD, GROUNDED cable" purchased from retro_console_accessories on Ebay which from what I read are a good choice of cables.

The instant issue i have is a vertical smear/bleed/drag which is about the most annoying thing i have ever seen.



Any help ? I'm sure this is something basic i am looking past as the setting options are intimidating.

Have you been fiddling with the H/V_Polarity settings? On earlier firmwares this caused the picture to become blurry. To fix this, set:
AUTO_SCALER to OFF
H_SCALER to 5
V_SCALER to 6

Worth a try.

[Cnop]

I'll give it a try thanks much

[Fudoh]

The instant issue i have is a vertical smear/bleed/drag which is about the most annoying thing i have ever seen.

this is not a framemeister issue. That's a response time issue of your TV's LCD panel. Dark colors on green background are HELL for VA panels. Try checking the Mario Kart title screen, where a few carts are driving over the green ground.

[zak]

Does anyone know what causes this to happen with Framemeister?

http://postimg.org/image/f931vsq6r/

http://postimg.org/image/r9jwis87n/

Sync?

Is there a way to fix it? I am running the first English firmware. Update time?

[eightbitminiboss]

Does anyone know what causes this to happen with Framemeister?

http://postimg.org/image/f931vsq6r/

http://postimg.org/image/r9jwis87n/

Sync?

Is there a way to fix it? I am running the first English firmware. Update time?

Update to the newest firmware (there's an English download) and use the Sync Level menu option.

[psychosync]

Hello

XRGB mini is the best! But in my quest to squeeze every bit of image quality awesomeness i have something i may need help with. This is about 480i and 480p.

For anything that is 240p, it is perfect, snes is looking sharp and pixel perfect on my projector as with any other thing that outputs 240p. Using the 240p suite on the SegaCD i can adjust horizontal lines and vertical lines to be perfectly spaced and of the same size.... ect...

For 480i & 480p, i am using the 240p suite but on the Wii. I also adjust everything the same way, horizontal and vertical lines in both 480i and p but as soon as i go back to the wii interface or a 480i/p game on the xbox or ps2 etc... diagonal shapes and text have jaggies (jaggies? is that the right word?) to them.

Take a look at these pictures:

This the 240p suite in 480p:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/44rk11yqznt4f ... M.jpg?dl=0

As you can see, horizontal and vertical lines are perfectly aligned, this should give me a pixel perfect image in 480p right?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ic49psmi4mtcs ... M.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l9fxjmmp9qjgj ... M.jpg?dl=0

Well this is what i am talking about:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vsz0u2evm34yh ... M.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xo54tl66hdsq ... M.jpg?dl=0

These are the settings i am using:

480p:

IMAGE_MODE: PICTURE
SCREEN_SET: UNDER (i cannot use SMART_X2 as my resolution is 1024x768)
V_WIDTH: 26 (i have to set this to 26 to get vertical lines right)
H_WIDTH: 50 (same as above)
H&V_SCALER: 5&6

Thanks

[Fudoh]

yeah, you cannot use V_SCALER 6 or 7 on 480i/p material, UNLESS you use Smart X2.

If you adjust the V_SCALER option to another value (e.g. 5) those jaggies will be gone, but you'll lose a little sharpness.

[psychosync]

Ok but why does it look perfect in the 240p suite in 480p and not in an actual game then? Is there a difference in how the 240p suite is displaying a 480 resolution compared to a game?

[Fudoh]

Because on the test suite you don't actually have 480i/p material. You have 240p material output as 480i/p.

[psychosync]

Ha ok that's what i though because it says 480 scaled 240p...

Thanks Fudoh, always of great help!

[FBX]

Ha ok that's what i though because it says 480 scaled 240p...

Thanks Fudoh, always of great help!

To elaborate: Polygonal 480i games just don't look good when resolved using H & V scaler at sharp focus settings. Even when aligned to an integer-based image size like "SHARP_2X", the edges will be aliased and most people don't like that. My own idea was to use H_Scaler: 10 (or even 11 in some cases) with V_Scaler: 5, and then combine that with SHARPNESS: 1. Normally I don't like to use anything other than zero for sharpness, but it seems to work well with using a value of 1 combined with those scaler focus settings.

[kjoy045]

Hey guys quick question.

I currently have my n64 hooked up via component (gross I know, svideo on the way/maybe rgb mod later). Playing Mario Party 1 the intro screen where the camera pans into the 5-6 characters standing around the fire they look like junk very pixelated hard to make out who they are. I went to a flea market today guy had an n64 composite right into the tv and the characters looked clean and not distorted I was distraught! I will upload a picture here shortly but just looking for any suggestions anyone could have.

Thanks,

Edit: Got to the pictures;

http://imgur.com/uuB9r5x
http://imgur.com/oMjFieB
http://imgur.com/YK4LoAX

Linked them in here but too big so external links will work

Let me know what you guys think. I think it could be possible this is just the junk composite is and svideo will make a big difference.

[CkRtech]

I think it could be possible this is just the junk composite is and svideo will make a big difference.

Well, you might be surprised how terrible the N64 looks regardless of video connection.

Was the guy at the flea market using a smaller TV and/or CRT?

My primary hookup is a modern TV with an upscaler. I do not prefer to use scanlines on my devices, but the N64 is a scanline requirement.

[FBX]

Hey guys quick question.

I currently have my n64 hooked up via component (gross I know, svideo on the way/maybe rgb mod later). Playing Mario Party 1 the intro screen where the camera pans into the 5-6 characters standing around the fire they look like junk very pixelated hard to make out who they are. I went to a flea market today guy had an n64 composite right into the tv and the characters looked clean and not distorted I was distraught! I will upload a picture here shortly but just looking for any suggestions anyone could have.

Thanks,

If it was a CRT, that might explain the difference in quality. The N64 is probably the worst console when it comes to not having aged well when viewed on a large HDTV. Also, you might want to try S-video and eventually get an RGB-modded N64. Even going to that extreme, the console will still never look as good as it does on a CRT. Eventually I'll get an RGB-modded N64 myself and upload the best possible profiles for it, but I've been rather tied up on my weekly budget buying EverDrives for my various consoles.

[austin532]

I do not prefer to use scanlines on my devices, but the N64 is a scanline requirement.

So does the PS1 as well.

[FBX]

I do not prefer to use scanlines on my devices, but the N64 is a scanline requirement.

So does the PS1 as well.

Not for me. I love clear pixels on the PS1. The N64 on the other hand... Not so great.

[eightbitminiboss]

Same, I tend to use scanlines on N64 but not on PS1. I want to partly believe it's because of the PS1's higher texture resolution on polygons in comparison to N64.

[MojoBox]

The N64 has two major problems with it visually: very low texture cache and the hardware Anti-Aliasing. The net effect is a very soft, blurry image output. Some of the best developers got around the texture cache via clever programming (see: Rare and Factor 5) or opted to use untextured, gourad shaded polys (see: Nintendo), but the AA solution just looks terrible at 240p (though not bad at 480i).

In short, there's only so much you can do with the N64 and a digital display, it simply looks better on a real CRT.

In response to kjoy045:
First things first, you should have at least an S-Video for use with the XRGB Mini. I do not think the Mini handles composite input very well and dot crawl and rainbow artifacts are very prominent. Using an S-Video will improve the image greatly just by removing these two problems, and they could well be a bit part of why it looks so terrible for you now.

When you purchase an S-Video cable make sure it's not the kind that has a composite output AND s-video. Those are not wired correctly. You want one that is specifically just S-Video.

The settings I'm currently using for 240p N64 games:
HDMI Output: 720p
H_Scaler: 9
V_Scaler: 7
Skew: 9
Sharpness: 1 (I usually abhor sharpening but the N64 really needs it)
Image Mode: Standard (Picture is usually the go-to for progressive signal, but I find the N64 produces a very noisy image and the loss in detail from the LPF is less annoying than the noise. YMMV)
Scanlines: 50 (Personal preference but I thought I'd throw it on here. It's nigh on impossible to get well defined pixels out of the N64 so scanlines are a godsend.)

I think that covers all the important settings. I'm very happy with how my N64 looks now, but it is interesting to note that these are pretty out of line with the settings I use for every other console I run through the thing, particularly the Skew. Not sure if that's due to it being S-Video instead of RGB/Component, or if it's down to the N64 itself.

[FBX]

The settings I'm currently using for 240p N64 games:
HDMI Output: 720p
H_Scaler: 9
V_Scaler: 7
Skew: 9
Sharpness: 1 (I usually abhor sharpening but the N64 really needs it)
Image Mode: Standard (Picture is usually the go-to for progressive signal, but I find the N64 produces a very noisy image and the loss in detail from the LPF is less annoying than the noise. YMMV)
Scanlines: 50 (Personal preference but I thought I'd throw it on here. It's nigh on impossible to get well defined pixels out of the N64 so scanlines are a godsend.)

Just so you know (and you may already know this), 'SKEW' merely shifts the alignment of the Framemeister's scaler focus left or right. Adjusting SKEW to get the best results is ENTIRELY dependent on the display & specific console you are using. So a SKEW of 9, while looking best on your display, might actually be shifted too far to the right or left on someone else's. This is why I never suggest SKEW settings in my profiles, and leave it up to the user to fine-tune that from their end.

[MojoBox]

Thanks, that's good to know! I hadn't been able to find a good explanation of what that setting did, but it seemed to help those very soft edges the N64 has. But when you're making these minute adjustments it's kinda easy to think you're seeing something you aren't.

Edit: Just thought I'd note I run a SNES via RGB, N64 via S-Video, and Wii/GCN via D-Terminal/Component through my Mini. The N64 is the one I've most had to fiddle with to try and get looking "good" and has the biggest problems with noise and/or interference. Don't know for sure if that's due to the S-Video connection or just the nature of the hardware. Some day I'll drop the cash on an RGB mod and see for myself.

[broken harbour]

Thanks, that's good to know! I hadn't been able to find a good explanation of what that setting did, but it seemed to help those very soft edges the N64 has. But when you're making these minute adjustments it's kinda easy to think you're seeing something you aren't.

Edit: Just thought I'd note I run a SNES via RGB, N64 via S-Video, and Wii/GCN via D-Terminal/Component through my Mini. The N64 is the one I've most had to fiddle with to try and get looking "good" and has the biggest problems with noise and/or interference. Don't know for sure if that's due to the S-Video connection or just the nature of the hardware. Some day I'll drop the cash on an RGB mod and see for myself.

I would say it's because you're using S-Video. My RGB modded N64 is very sharp... for better or worse.

[touchmypenguinagain]

Hi guys. First of all thanks in advance for any info or help. So I recently bought a framemeister, an rgb modded micro snes and n64 and the necessary cables from retro gaming accessories to hook it up. I'm occasionally getting a lot of noise on black screens, but sometimes it's flawless on the same screens. Note it affects both consoles. Last night it was terrible on return to dinosaur land, particularly on the black borders, transitions between levels and on boot screens. I tested composite through the framemeister and while less noticeable it was still visible, I then tried composite direct into the TV and it was not visible so I put it down to the framemeister. However I then woke up this morning and tried rgb through the framemeister again and it was perfect, solid clean blacks.

Any ideas what could be the issue? Through my tests it seems to isolate the issue to the framemeister (i.e - composite into the framemeister bypassing the rgb cable and adapter had the same issue where as direct into the TV it didn't). Would attach some images but on my phone and doesn't seem to be doable, will try later but basically a lot of noise/artifacts/inconsistent colour on black colours.

Thanks, Andrew

[FBX]

Hi guys. First of all thanks in advance for any info or help. So I recently bought a framemeister, an rgb modded micro snes and n64 and the necessary cables from retro gaming accessories to hook it up. I'm occasionally getting a lot of noise on black screens, but sometimes it's flawless on the same screens. Note it affects both consoles. Last night it was terrible on return to dinosaur land, particularly on the black borders, transitions between levels and on boot screens. I tested composite through the framemeister and while less noticeable it was still visible, I then tried composite direct into the TV and it was not visible so I put it down to the framemeister. However I then woke up this morning and tried rgb through the framemeister again and it was perfect, solid clean blacks.

Any ideas what could be the issue? Through my tests it seems to isolate the issue to the framemeister (i.e - composite into the framemeister bypassing the rgb cable and adapter had the same issue where as direct into the TV it didn't). Would attach some images but on my phone and doesn't seem to be doable, will try later but basically a lot of noise/artifacts/inconsistent colour on black colours.

Thanks, Andrew

You might be seeing the coefficient error of the Framemeister that introduces noise in certain shades and is especially bad in border-area blacks. The best I could do to reduce the problem were to adjust the following parameters:

Color:

Adjust the Brightness and Black levels. A Black level of 1 (2 in extreme cases) can mask a lot of the border noise.

A/D: Adjusting this can help with certain shades of colors that reveal more noise than others, but the noise will never really go away and will often shift to a different shade.