Cave x Steam teaser!

[Strikers1945guy]

The news starts to spread http://www.pcgamer.com/cave-shmups-are-coming-to-steam/

Apparently PC gamer thinks we have short memories:
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-five-cave-ga ... -on-steam/

And to top it off the list is not even that great. Why ask for ports of all the games people say play near perfect via emulation already?

[Strikers1945guy]

Also now that I think of it cave should have some sort of poll on their website or somewhere asking people what port they want most.

If we know cave they'll just release some terrible DeathsmIles I & II double package or something.

[Brainpalace]

I think he was talking specifically about the article posted a few days ago where the author said he knew nothing about shoot-em-ups but you should go watch the movie Shoot-Em-Up and oh yeah by the way there's some game coming to PC or something

Yes, this is what I meant.

First the article that came with the teaser announcement, saying they knew nothing about Cave games.
Then a few weeks later, a top 5 list of the games they want most from Cave.

[Special World]

To be fair though, I can almost guarantee that different authors wrote both pieces. Most sites have a news team that handles incoming news and those are often more lax and less in-depth, because the nature of news is that it has to be churned out quickly or it's not news anymore. Just because one person doesn't know much about a topic, doesn't mean there isn't another author with in-depth knowledge.

As for my top 5 most-wanted Cave ports...

Ibara (+Kuro would be nice)
Dodonpachi
Mushi Futari Black
SDOJ w/o input lag (I honestly don't really notice it but I'm curious if I'd notice it with something to compare to)
Dangun Feveron

Yeah I can already play most of these in MAME, but I don't really like messing around with MAME at all, and I prefer having an actual release to a pirate copy. Don't get all upset over this; I'm not establishing any moral high ground. I don't have anything against pirates (except holier-than-thou pirates, of all things), just for me personally an actual videogame release is more meaningful than a pirate copy.

[S_Fang]

I think he was talking specifically about the article posted a few days ago where the author said he knew nothing about shoot-em-ups but you should go watch the movie Shoot-Em-Up and oh yeah by the way there's some game coming to PC or something

Yes, this is what I meant.

First the article that came with the teaser announcement, saying they knew nothing about Cave games.
Then a few weeks later, a top 5 list of the games they want most from Cave.

Perhaps the author studied a little bit about Cave games in order to write something about it and not looking like a compleate incompetent.

[Special World]

Also now that I think of it cave should have some sort of poll on their website or somewhere asking people what port they want most.

If we know cave they'll just release some terrible DeathsmIles I & II double package or something.

I really want them to release some sort of Dodonpachi ultimate collection. Donpachi, DDP, DOJ, DFK+Black, SDOJ, all wrapped in a slick interface. That'd really be something to see. Never gonna happen considering they have a million 360 games to just port over as fast as they can.

[Strikers1945guy]

Also now that I think of it cave should have some sort of poll on their website or somewhere asking people what port they want most.

If we know cave they'll just release some terrible DeathsmIles I & II double package or something.

I really want them to release some sort of Dodonpachi ultimate collection. Donpachi, DDP, DOJ, DFK+Black, SDOJ, all wrapped in a slick interface. That'd really be something to see. Never gonna happen considering they have a million 360 games to just port over as fast as they can.

Ya, one can dream. After Mushi they'll do the inevitable Futari release next. Then something no one wants like DeathSmiles then they'll announce something amazing like an Ibara + Kuro release but fall off the face of the earth before delivering. The cave way.

[Shepardus]

I think he was talking specifically about the article posted a few days ago where the author said he knew nothing about shoot-em-ups but you should go watch the movie Shoot-Em-Up and oh yeah by the way there's some game coming to PC or something

Yes, this is what I meant.

First the article that came with the teaser announcement, saying they knew nothing about Cave games.
Then a few weeks later, a top 5 list of the games they want most from Cave.

Perhaps the author studied a little bit about Cave games in order to write something about it and not looking like a compleate incompetent.

The two articles are by different writers, so probably not.

[BPzeBanshee]

I agree with one game on that list - ESPRade. I want an ESPRade port. Give it HD music that loops correctly and an arrange mode (or two alternate modes like Guwange) and I'd be happy. DO EEET

[mastermx]

Also now that I think of it cave should have some sort of poll on their website or somewhere asking people what port they want most.

If we know cave they'll just release some terrible DeathsmIles I & II double package or something.

I really want them to release some sort of Dodonpachi ultimate collection. Donpachi, DDP, DOJ, DFK+Black, SDOJ, all wrapped in a slick interface. That'd really be something to see. Never gonna happen considering they have a million 360 games to just port over as fast as they can.

That would be an amazing deal. But judging from the mushi release and the fact that it already has frigging dlc I really don't see them doing this. It would have made more sense to release the mushi and futari together in one release. It should have been called the mushi collection. The reason I say that it makes more sense is because I don't see the general gaming public buying mushi as well as its sequel. What will happen though is that steam will be filled with cave releases at around $20 and additional DLC for each release at $10. Most players will just grab everything during the steam sale.

SDOJ was just a much better first release on steam imo, it's easy to sell, because it has not been emulated and because this release would make it the definitive version without lag.

Despite everything I've said I'm still looking forward to mushihimesama, I just think pricing and first title choice would have got me more hype.

[Bananamatic]

mushi emulation is so bad you might just say it's not emulated at all

it's so bad that emulated futari maniac is way easier to 1cc than emulated mushi maniac, it completely changes how it plays

[mastermx]

Oh I didn't know that. What does the emulation get wrong?

I've only ever played mushi through emulation tbh.

[Bananamatic]

slowdown and lots of input lag

[STG4WD]

I agree with one game on that list - ESPRade. I want an ESPRade port. Give it HD music that loops correctly and an arrange mode (or two alternate modes like Guwange) and I'd be happy. DO EEET

For those who missed it above, PC Gamer (or more specifically Heidi Kemps*) want to see the following come to Steam:


1) Mushihimesama Futari (because awesome)

2) ESP Ra De (because awesome AND never ported)

3) ESP Galuda (because good for beginners but also deep)

4) Ketsui (because... Lockshots)

5) Dodonpachi (because DO-DO-DO-DO-DO-DO-DO... DODONPACH!!!)



I have to say I agree with all of that (although I would move Futari from 1st to 5th place as it's already so accessible). I think ESPRaDe is crying out for a port.

Or maybe I'm just crying out for a port of it...

However, with ESPRaDe and with all of the CAVE games that haven't had an HD brushup, I would also pretty much *BEG* for a proper vertical scanlines option. It's not a joke. People need to be given a real chance to appreciate the amazing pixel art in these games as it was drawn and intended to be viewed, not as some blocky interpolated HDTV mess.

The true beauty of the art in these games should not be reserved only for those who can afford expensive, imported upscalers. Steam ports can make this dream a reality.




(*Heidi Kemps AKA @ZeroChan, video game journalist, Virtua Fighter acolyte and all round Japanophile. She cool. The other stupid PC Gamer article was written by some stupid other person.)

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

The boards look fine with a cheap RGB converter into a CRT monitor. Upscalers are for pointless snobs who play on the wrong monitor. If they put in fake scanlines they are going to look just that and if they upscale "half of the graphics" (like they have in the past) it would also look crap. Either HD everything or nothing...

[STG4WD]

The boards look fine with a cheap RGB converter into a CRT monitor. Upscalers are for pointless snobs who play on the wrong monitor. If they put in fake scanlines they are going to look just that and if they upscale "half of the graphics" (like they have in the past) it would also look crap. Either HD everything or nothing...

Aren't CRTs for pointless snobs these days?

How many Steam users have one of those?!

[Skykid]

The boards look fine with a cheap RGB converter into a CRT monitor. Upscalers are for pointless snobs who play on the wrong monitor. If they put in fake scanlines they are going to look just that and if they upscale "half of the graphics" (like they have in the past) it would also look crap. Either HD everything or nothing...

Aren't CRTs for pointless snobs these days?

Get the fuck out.

[STG4WD]

Aren't CRTs for pointless snobs these days?

Get the fuck out.

Seriously- who is going to play a Steam game on a CRT?

How would they even do so?

[Special World]

CRTs actually affect the gameplay on older games sooo

[qmish]

Elitists strike back

[CWM]

It's a PC game, you can put whatever filter you want on it through DLL injection. Can even steal the filters people who build MAME cabs with CRTs use to get good visuals.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

The boards look fine with a cheap RGB converter into a CRT monitor. Upscalers are for pointless snobs who play on the wrong monitor. If they put in fake scanlines they are going to look just that and if they upscale "half of the graphics" (like they have in the past) it would also look crap. Either HD everything or nothing...

Aren't CRTs for pointless snobs these days?

How many Steam users have one of those?!

Um you mentioned upscalers so I was talking about PCBs. If people use upscalers with Steam that's something I've never heard of.

[STG4WD]

It's a PC game, you can put whatever filter you want on it through DLL injection. Can even steal the filters people who build MAME cabs with CRTs use to get good visuals.

This is not a realistic solution for every person who downloads a game from Steam.

The developers should include a menu option within the game to put the CORRECT filter over the graphics, so that you can see just the 240 vertical columns of pixels that were drawn by the artists.

[STG4WD]

Um you mentioned upscalers so I was talking about PCBs. If people use upscalers with Steam that's something I've never heard of.

Well you can feed HDMI at 480p into an XRGB and get some lovely scanlines...

Let me re-phrase though:

Scanlines- AKA the original 240p game artwork that was drawn by the artists- should not be the exclusive preserve of people with increasingly outdated hardware like PCBs or consoles with RGB outs.

If we eventually get Steam ports of any original 240p Cave games, they should definitely come with a scanlines option that allows you to see what the artwork actually looks like (which is amazing).

It would make the games cheaper to develop for Steam (no HD sprites to re-draw) and they would look exactly as they were designed to look.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I'd be happy with just giving us the original graphics. I've never seen a game come with scanlines option that looked real. Scanlines on most CRT monitors really aren't very strong, most of the time I don't pay any attention to them. It's the other things about CRT monitors that make low res games look good, to me.

[STG4WD]

I'd be happy with just giving us the original graphics.

The original graphics are made of 240 lines of colour pixels with alternating blank lines of pixels. Anything other than that is being added by either the console or the TV.

My question is, how do we get back to that original 240p image via Steam via an HD monitor?

[qmish]

That's a great question how to make all those 200-300px images look great on today monitors. Resizing is not an answer unless u're making one of those "retro indie" games with huge pixels (which is absolutely not how 240p game looked on 240p display).

[Bananamatic]

The true beauty of the art in these games should be reserved only for those who can play ultra mode. Steam ports can make this dream a reality.

:^)

[Tatsuya79]

The original graphics are made of 240 lines of colour pixels with alternating blank lines of pixels. Anything other than that is being added by either the console or the TV.
My question is, how do we get back to that original 240p image via Steam via an HD monitor?

With CRT shaders, it would be great if they added support for them.
I think I won't buy any other 2D games on steam that don't have those, I can't stand those scaling issues and bad interpolation.
I'd rather wait for emulation to progress.

[Xyga]

A really light filter over a decently scaled picture should be enough in most cases. I mean something not obnoxious like your average bilinear.

Either controlled from your GPU if you can do it, or proposed in the game's menu.

There's that 'Sharp Bilinear' shader floating around the emulation scene, that feels right, but I haven't been able to use/convert to anything useable in current emulators.
I bet someone competent could do it as it was suggested.

Now for those who want more sophisticated stuff with fake scanlines and phosphor simulation it's their problem, because it's complicated and heavily hardware-dependant (your PC and monitor specs play a big role in the final results) and I don't imagine we can bother Cave asking them to work on such problematic stuff now.

Our main concern should be about correct speed and lag, if they get that right it'll be great already !