Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[__SKYe]

Always presumed it was a 1 CC requirement based on that we're on shmups:D

Yeah, but no amount of credit feeding will save you from the brutality of Act 6, so it's fair enough.

[Sumez]

I think getting your first 1CC in Ninja Gaiden is such a great experience that it should absolutely be encouraged.
I didn't feel anything the first time I just scrubbed my way through the game.

I'm not opposed to accepting non-1CCs for a fictional task force, but I do recommend people who didn't get it yet to press on until they have it, for the sake of their own enjoyment.

[Stevens]

Once I knew I wanted to stick with Ninja Spirit it was/is 1 CC or bust.

Agree with you Sumezu (did I ever mention I enjoy reading your thoughts on Reddit?), as a kid scrubbing through a game was satisfying, but getting a 1 CC in a difficult game is where it's at now.

[Blinge]

I think getting your first 1CC in Ninja Gaiden is such a great experience that it should absolutely be encouraged.
I didn't feel anything the first time I just scrubbed my way through the game.

I'm not opposed to accepting non-1CCs for a fictional task force, but I do recommend people who didn't get it yet to press on until they have it, for the sake of their own enjoyment.

I wasn't going to..
..but now your challenge will sit like a gauntlet on the floor of my mind..

[__SKYe]

I think getting your first 1CC in Ninja Gaiden is such a great experience that it should absolutely be encouraged.
I didn't feel anything the first time I just scrubbed my way through the game.

Agreed, but a credit fed clear proves, at the very least, that you've conquered the checkpoint-of-doom. Or that you have the perseverance to stick with it, which is pretty important.

I wasn't going to..
..but now your challenge will sit like a gauntlet on the floor of my mind..

He purposedly wrote that to lure you.

I'm not opposed to accepting non-1CCs for a fictional task force...

What do you mean fictional.

[Blinge]

BIL hasn't seen fit to give him an IRL assignment yet, clearly.
How.. pitiful.

[BIL]

I do think he's by far the coolest NG1 boss outside of J & J, if only because catching him with the full brunt of the updraft for meaty damage and a quick KO is a fun technical challenge (easy to miss with some of it... bit like shotgunning Imps in DOOM).

Dang, I've seen your replay before but somehow I had forgotten about this. That works real well! Basaquer was always my least favorite since he can't be spinslashed but now I know what to do.

I forgot how well that went myself! If I hadn't gotten clipped, it'd be close to my ideal. That's the story of my replays in general though.

Agreed, but a credit fed clear proves, at the very least, that you've conquered the checkpoint-of-doom. Or that you have the perseverance to stick with it, which is pretty important.

Yeah exactly. It's just a bit of camaraderie, really. Competence Force.

Also, some games' difficulty just gets blown out of proportion. To the point it feels unfair on the designers, and liable to scare away people who'd otherwise enjoy themselves. I very nearly didn't buy Gradius V at launch, due to claims it was impossible without unlocking free play. GV ended up being my vital return to arcade-styled performance gaming. The gruff emcee is my godfather, I 1CCd it just for his booming approval! I'm only returning the favour.

I think I'm drawn to such cases. See also Metal Black. Not Gun.Smoke, though. That one is genuinely a motherfucker.

Also you guys didn't witness the thermonuclear scrub rage first-hand. [The Creation Of The Super Task Force] That is NOT a guy you assign 1CC requirements to! Not unless you want an innocent cartridge to get beaten with a steel chair. (also it worked! dunno if he ever made it, but we got along okay after that! until he randomly shat all over us three years later on HG101 )

[__SKYe]

Haha, I've read the discussion that led to the NG thread before, but only just noticed how little members the Task Force™ had back then. It really has grown admirably; makes me proud.

Also, some games' difficulty gets blown out of proportion, to the point it feels unfair on the designers and liable to scare away people who'd otherwise enjoy themselves. I very nearly didn't buy Gradius V at launch, due to claims it was impossible without unlocking free play. GV ended up being a vital push back to arcade-styled gaming for me.

That's one of the things I owe to my increased appreciation of the harder variety of action gaming; not to let the common opinion of a game colour my own. Or at least I try not to.
That, and supressing the urge to judge a game after only a bit of play time, so as not to make erroneous judgements. This part is still a work in progress, and still happens routinely, but I think that being aware that it happens is a step in the right direction.

(also it worked! dunno if he ever made it, but we got along okay after that! until he randomly shat all over us three years later on HG101 )

I seriously doubt it, as I take the HG101 rant as a means to say that he was done with the game (and this forum), but who knows? Maybe it will all come full circle, and he'll come back repenting his attitude with a no-miss. Though I fear it will be the end of the Task Force™ then, since he is the reason it exists in the first place.

[BIL]

Maybe it will all come full circle, and he'll come back repenting his attitude with a no-miss. Though I fear it will be the end of the Task Force™ then, since he is the reason it exists in the first place.

This is definitely our ticket to getting Edmans back onboard. No miss = thread lock! We'll just lie to his face about the second bit.

[__SKYe]

We'll just lie to his face about the second bit.

Or use it as an opportunity to start Scrolling Action Monogatari Part III as a fresh thread.

EDIT: Meant to ask you BIL, since you mentioned Gradius V before; I know about Metal Black and Gun-Smoke, but what's your STG history?

[FinalBaton]

(Also, I've never seen Ninja Scroll

This is mandatory viewing for the members of the Task Force This will be your first assignment!

[BIL]

EDIT: Meant to ask you BIL, since you mentioned Gradius V before; I know about Metal Black and Gun-Smoke, but what's your STG history?

Relatively minimal, tbh. I'm no Perikles. The genre's been a background constant in my gaming since I was eight and my buddy brought over Life Force (NES), whose autoscrolling piledriver annihilated us in a way I found terrifying far beyond our favourites Contra, Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden. We quickly put it down, but I liked the feeling and would occasionally pick up what Konami/Irem/Toaplan staples I could, over the subsequent three generations. Twin Cobra (Genesis), R-Type Delta and Gradius V were highlights.

It was only after 1CCing Gradius V crystallised my ennui for mainstream gaming, and I started lurking around here in '05, that I began gaining an appreciation of the genre's history and scope. Even now though, I'm more of a dabbler who'll occasionally knuckle down with a 1CC project. To me the genre's something that'll forever be there to kick my ass like I'm eight again, and I'm a lazy sort, so I don't feel compelled to engage with it constantly. I'd rather relax in here. Actually, now that I'm a wizened old 35y/o, the genre's no-nonsense focus also comes in handy. Funny how that worked out.

CRADLE 2 GRAVE MOTHERFUCKER

(I notice this community tends to attract true enthusiasts, the sort who enjoy grappling with their hobbies. Movies, music, hardware, so on. That enagement is critical to appreciating STGs and other "hard gaming," I think. Everyone gets knocked on their ass at first. The trick is to not take it personally, but learn the ropes, and eventually knock the game on its. Not to say there's no such thing as badly-made hard games. But that's the general principle!)

(Also, I've never seen Ninja Scroll

This is mandatory viewing for the members of the Task Force This will be your first assignment!

Concurred. Very similar necro-feudal tone to Ninja Spirit, actually. The model example of a "videogame movie" done right.

[mycophobia]

shmups are hard

[BIL]

ikr 3;

[Stevens]

Anyone plan on checking out The Messenger?

https://www.google.com/search?client=av ... enger+game

Cause you know, ninjaaaas.

[Sumez]

(did I ever mention I enjoy reading your thoughts on Reddit?)

I am glad to hear someone does I often feel that I'm wasting my time there

I wasn't going to..
..but now your challenge will sit like a gauntlet on the floor of my mind..

I am sure you will manage it quickly!
Ninja Gaiden is one of those games where doing a clean run feels impossible at first due to 50 deaths in your first credit feeding attempts. But it takes very little practice after that to do a 1CC. That's one aspect of such memorization heavy games that I still enjoy.

Reiterating earlier discussions I'd say that savestate practicing on Jaki Ou is definitely fair game.

[__SKYe]

Relatively minimal, tbh. I'm no Perikles.

Very few are.
It's cool to know, since we never get to discuss them here (for obvious reasons). I'm curious though, what made you pick up and 1cc Gradius V in the first place? Did it just happen to be the only high-profile STG that came out at the time, or was it just to prove the critics wrong?

I notice this community tends to attract true enthusiasts, the sort who enjoy grappling with their hobbies. Movies, music, hardware, so on. That enagement is critical to appreciating STGs and other "hard gaming," I think. Everyone gets knocked on their ass at first. The trick is to not take it personally, but learn the ropes, and eventually knock the game on its.

Indeed. You really need to like these games, or at least want to like them enough to stick with them, otherwise they won't be much fun. Personally, my main reason for coming this forum, is precisely because it's a place where you can discuss games that others actually play and are very knowledge about. I like pretty much all the discussion about them here, be it gameplay, graphics, audio, history, devs, etc, but I probably wouldn't hang around if the talk didn't come from actual caring players.
Gotta be thankful for that.

Not to say there's no such thing as badly-made hard games. But that's the general principle!

Yeah, but it's something that becomes easier to spot, after you develop the proper mindset. Otherwise, much like you say, it's very easy to paint a hard, but fair game as badly conceived.

This is mandatory viewing for the members of the Task Force This will be your first assignment

Haven't watched it either. Will do eventually.

EDIT: Typos, rephrasing.

[BIL]

I'm curious though, what made you pick up and 1cc Gradius V in the first place? Did it just happen to be the only high-profile STG that came out at the time, or was it just to prove the critics wrong?

Edge Magazine gave it some really good preview coverage. It looked absolutely mesmerising (still does imo), and they'd always had an above-average appreciation of arcadey stuff, so by late '04 I was quite fired up. Life Force connection with Zelos Force, Tetran and Organic Fortress helped too, ofc.

But no, I'd zero expectations of defying EGM's positive but rather scare-mongering review. I thought I was gonna get shredded, but decided to just chance my luck. Actually my copy sat unplayed for a few months while I S-Ranked Shattered Soldier and Neo Contra. Nowhere as difficult as GV, especially Neo, but they got me in the right mindset for high-precision 2D action.

After a month with GV I would've probably stopped at my god-awful 5CC, which still felt like a marathon. But I liked how the announcer became subtly less damning the further you got. No exaggeration, I think that sort of in-game presence is an excellent way of encouraging performance. Much more visceral than mere numbers or ranks.

After getting the 1CC I looked up various other STGs Edge liked, and ended up here. Still working through the utter fuckton of new games I found then, it's a never-ending rabbit hole. In a roundabout way, this also led me back to non-STG hardcore gaming. Ruldra's Ninja Gaiden 1CC in particular made me appreciate what it had to offer, even to a veteran arcade clearer like him. I've not done nearly as much actual gaming in this period as I might've, but as said I'm a lazy sort. I enjoy digging about console libraries and collecting most of all, at the moment.

Haven't watched it either. Will do eventually.

It's so rad. I want to watch again just typing this.

non-spoiler

Spoiler

Jubei is the man And he's up against some bad motherfuckers! Like a feudal Japanese FOXHOUND! A masterfully staged boss rush with a manful hero, a memorable cast of fiends and a pitilessly dark air. Even the potentially disastrous romantic subplot is sensibly done. Official anime of the thread without question.

[__SKYe]

After a month with GV I would've probably stopped at my god-awful 5CC, which still felt like a marathon. But I liked how the announcer became subtly less damning the further you got. No exaggeration, I think that sort of in-game presence is an excellent way of encouraging performance. Much more visceral than mere numbers or ranks.

Agreed. I have little play time with Gradius V, but I always enjoy enthusiastic in-game announcers (whether they are judgemental or not ), like the one in Donpachi, or the ever-cool one in Metal Slug.

After getting the 1CC I looked up various other STGs Edge liked, and ended up here. Still working through the utter fuckton of new games I found then, it's a never-ending rabbit hole.

That's good, though; always something to look forward to.

[bottino]

Welcome aboard! The infamous spinneh-mah-winneh invincible airborne death machine is just called Jumpslash around here, or some variant of. Can't remember the official name tbh.

The pleasure is all mine.

And so Jumpslash it is then

Demon's basically a stationary, supercharged Hammer Bro that hits for 3HP a pop. Can throw out some pretty interesting setups... the sadist in me wishes he had a secondary targeted shot from the core, to spook 'em real good (destructible, to allow counterattack). Ninja Gaiden II's second rush boss is kinda like this, random overhead drops and blasts from the core. You can totally own him if you know your subweapons though, since the game doesn't confiscate them unlike NG1's rush.

On a straight NG1 clear (meaning fighting him without subweapons), it's hugely useful to know about the air attack cancel glitch. Will make hacking his head off go significantly quicker. Basically tap [down] and while airborne, in some rhythm I always forget. You need to stagger the inputs slightly.

Oh, I didn't knew about this technique. Many thanks BIL !

By using it, I finally managed to kill the Demon in one go.

I'm fairly tired today, so I ended up making a handful of stupid mistakes which forced me to go through the entirety of Act 6 with zero lives.

EDIT:

Now, that's much better:

Congrats to both you and bottino, by the way.

Thanks man.

[Sumez]

After killing it, remember to climb its face and teabag it from above as the screen fades out. Not doing that is a typical rookie mistake.

[Ghegs]

I really need to start working on my application to the Task Force again. The cart's been sitting in the console for a month or two now.

Anyone plan on checking out The Messenger?

https://www.google.com/search?client=av ... enger+game

Cause you know, ninjaaaas.

Coming out tomorrow. There's also this video where Ninja Gaiden's director/writer Hideo Yoshizawa and composer Keiji Yamagishi play the game. Of course it's a promo thing, but still pretty cool.

I'm curious about the game, but will wait for some reviews, hopefully from you people.

[M.Knight]

no miss clear of thread-accepted-non-platformer Cave Noire.

I always play the game in short sessions, one or two quests at a time as I imagine it was envisionned, but a full run like this is impressive!
There is enough tension already when trying to clear some of the longer quests, and I can't imagine how much more nerve-wracking it can be to have to keep up for almost 2 hours.

I agree that the Orb missions are the hardest so it is better to clear them right off the bat for a full-run. I am not sure whether the monster slaying quest is easier than the fairy rescuing one, though. They both are rather simple overall so it doesn't matter that much but you stay shorter amounts of time when rescuing fairies because there is one in most floors while in the other quest you may have to purposefully extend your stay in the level until it spawns the proper enemies and equipment. On the other hand, that equipement allows you to wistand more hits and gives you more leeway for mistakes so I guess it balances it out?

[__SKYe]

Never played the game straight through either; nice job Vanguard.

Yeah, the Orb missions are the hardest and the Gold missions the easiest (no inventory penalty, no mandatory monsters, etc). I'd put the monster extermination missions in 2nd place in terms of difficulty, because not only are you not required to beat any monsters, but rescuing a fairy will destroy all enemies on the screen, which occasionally does help.
When all is said and done, apart from the Orbs mission, there's not that big of a difference between the other three difficulty-wise, though.

[Vanguard]

Agreed with the rest of you regarding Ninja Scroll. It really does feel like Ninja Spirit: The Hard Corps: The Animation.

I had planned to set Kirby's Dream Land aside after an extra mode 1CC, but I just couldn't put it down. KDL wasn't my first Kirby game, and originally I had thought that a Kirby game without copy abilities was pointless. I've since come to recognize unpowered Kirby's moveset as complete and enjoyable on its own. Wielding enemies and parts of the stage as improvised weaponry is fun!

I always play the game in short sessions, one or two quests at a time as I imagine it was envisionned, but a full run like this is impressive!
There is enough tension already when trying to clear some of the longer quests, and I can't imagine how much more nerve-wracking it can be to have to keep up for almost 2 hours.

I agree that the Orb missions are the hardest so it is better to clear them right off the bat for a full-run. I am not sure whether the monster slaying quest is easier than the fairy rescuing one, though. They both are rather simple overall so it doesn't matter that much but you stay shorter amounts of time when rescuing fairies because there is one in most floors while in the other quest you may have to purposefully extend your stay in the level until it spawns the proper enemies and equipment. On the other hand, that equipement allows you to wistand more hits and gives you more leeway for mistakes so I guess it balances it out?

It was pretty tense, but not too bad. It helps that Cave Noire is pretty fair for such an RNG-heavy game, at least outside of a few postgame missions (collect 8 orbs...). Cave Noire's get-out-of-jail-free cards are also reliable enough that a single mistake isn't too likely to end your run.

I don't have a strong opinion on which quests are harder than others besides that the orb ones are the hardest. The monster slayer missions are my favorites though. I like the way they naturally divide into two parts, a first half where you run away from monsters and a cathartic second half where you use your newly-acquired weapons to pay them back.

[Obscura]

When I played Kirby's Dream Land 3 for the first time a few years back, I found that the basic "suck + spit" moveset was more powerful than most of the transformations. Dunno if it was just me being influenced by what I played as a kid (the first KDL was the only Kirby game I had then), but I found the transformations to be "the thing you use if the game makes you", not the thing you use to actually be powerful.

[Vanguard]

Yeah, I think you're right. I replayed KDL2 yesterday and it was the same way, most copy abilities were clear downgrades. Owl + Umbrella is S tier though.

[Despatche]

Some Kirby games are like that, some aren't. Newer games usually aren't like that. Maybe that's why the Kirby's Dream Land games were named that...

[Sumez]

Maybe it's because I grew up with Kirby's Dream Land myself, but I always found the copy abilities a really dumb addition, that only detracted from what the core gameplay of the series is.
Especially stupid was how most bosses would retain the same concept of releasing items that you could spit back at them, despite the best option always being just walking up to them and whack them with your sword. Not my idea of a great game.
It's a fun spectacle for sure, but that's all it is - a spectacle.

[BrianC]

Some Kirby games are like that, some aren't. Newer games usually aren't like that. Maybe that's why the Kirby's Dream Land games were named that...

Except the games weren't originally called "Dream Land". DL2 and DL3 have a different feel because Sakurai had no involvement with them.