Analogue 3D - new N64 console

[ZellSF]

Analogue's cores over/underclock to actually run at 59.94hz when unbuffered, that's the special thing it has that the MiSTer does not. On the other hand, Analogue's cores do not support just running at the original refresh rate without laggy buffering. Except with the DAC.

So assuming the interlaced and progressive modes use slightly different refresh rates, Analogue should handle them better unbuffered.

[orange808]

MiSTer can use (and even force) VRR to compatible displays to deal with issues when the signal changes.

[H6rdc0re]

The Analogue 3D will probably cost only slightly less or the same as MARS FPGA. That will do Dreamcast and Naomi 1 down the line and everything in between. No contest which you should choose.

[bobrocks95]

Am I crazy because I thought there was some talk about it being priced similar to their previous products, but I don't see that anywhere. I doubt it will cost anywhere close to a MARS though.

[orange808]

The Analogue 3D will probably cost only slightly less or the same as MARS FPGA. That will do Dreamcast and Naomi 1 down the line and everything in between. No contest which you should choose.

Closed source hardware? No thanks. We can do better. That's a cash grab. Everything but the DE-10 Nano is wide open in the MiSTer project. There are a few proprietary things that don't matter, like cases and the abandoned blissbox input protocol (SNAC is better and 1ms USB works just as well with less cost/effort).

[Konsolkongen]

If the Mars could be pushed to include Model 3 and Naomi 2 cores too,that would pretty much make it play every arcade system that I am interested in.

And 4k output too. I think it looks very interesting

[Johnpv]

The Analogue 3D will probably cost only slightly less or the same as MARS FPGA. That will do Dreamcast and Naomi 1 down the line and everything in between. No contest which you should choose.

The MARS is expected to be like 700 dollars, Analogue has hinted that the 3D will be around their usual cost so the 200 - 250 dollar range. Please don't just make shit up and post it like its facts.

[orange808]

"Expensive" Tink4k with fat profit margin = bad.
Expensive MARS with fat profit margin = good.

Okay. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ Chi's machine also won't leverage ported open source cores from an open project or stolen roms. It uses original software and licenced IP. It doesn't try to take things out of open source and lock them in a walled garden. I also appreciate that the Tink4k tries to solve problems without making me buy a specific mod or switch.

[Bassa-Bassa]

It doesn't try to take things out of open source

Are the Mars people (duh) doing that (I guess you mean out of Mister)?

[Guspaz]

Everything about MARS is opensource except for the hardware, just like MiSTer. There's no walled garden or anything.

[fernan1234]

Yep, MiSTer's hardware is closed source because it belongs to Terasic. There's a bit of a difference in that MARS hardware will be closed source by choice, but a choice that is reasonable.

[orange808]

Everything about MARS is opensource except for the hardware, just like MiSTer. There's no walled garden or anything.

So, any add on boards will be open source and I have a DIY option? If that's not the case, it's not like MiSTer. One of my posts above specifically said everything but the DE-10 Nano already. You saw it. So, you posted something I already said as a reply?

If the add on boards and the full instructions to DIY are available, I apologize. If not, I'm accusing you of using selective quotes and language.

[bobrocks95]

What add-on boards? They're aiming for a fully enclosed, everything included set-top box design. I haven't heard anything about expansion I/O past the controller adapters.

[orange808]

What add-on boards? They're aiming for a fully enclosed, everything included set-top box design. I haven't heard anything about expansion I/O past the controller adapters.

Exactly.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Everything about MARS is opensource except for the hardware, just like MiSTer. There's no walled garden or anything.

So, any add on boards will be open source and I have a DIY option? If that's not the case, it's not like MiSTer. One of my posts above specifically said everything but the DE-10 Nano already. You saw it. So, you posted something I already said as a reply?

The important question though is if the Mars people are actively trying to get that Mister coders stop doing work for that and release their cores exclusively for Mars, as you seemed to imply.

[orange808]

The important question though is if the Mars people are actively trying to get that Mister coders stop doing work for that and release their cores exclusively for Mars, as you seemed to imply.

I just prefer the ability to DIY and multiple competitive sellers for products like these.

If they had coded all of their own cores from scratch, I'd see it differently. As it stands, it appears to use MiSTer project as a launchpad and removes multiple hardware sellers/DIY from the ecosystem by design.

I like MiSTer the way it is. YMMV.

[Bassa-Bassa]

It's hard not to agree with that (though at the same time it's also just more competition for those sellers). I'm more concerned about the software side, though, as I'm not buying a Mars device. If it succeeds and somehow gets relevant devs code for it (exclusively or not), that's a Mister's loss, and this diversification is not a good thing.

Now, if the Mars were to be significantly more powerful than a Mister and justified that price point, I could see it differently, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Guspaz]

Mars' FPGA is much larger and more capable (~60% more LEs and multiple times more block ram, though they're not the same vendors). Hence why they're able to push it all the way to running sixth-gen consoles like the Dreamcast. And since they promised all their software work will be open source, that means that their Dreamcast core will be open source too, if somebody wants to port it to a future larger variant of the MiSTer.

I don't see how diversification is a bad thing. Cores being ported to the Pocket didn't slow down development for the Mister. Cores being ported to the MARS isn't going to either. You'll have cores that will only run on the MARS because they're too big to run on the MiSTer, just like you've got cores that can't run on the Pocket because it's got a smaller FPGA.

I'd urge people to not gatekeep this stuff. MiSTer add-on boards might be open, but it is fundamentally open source software running on a proprietary board, and add-ons don't change that. Especially since we don't even know what MARS' plan is for add-ons stuff. It's entirely possible that they'll publish specs for any external connectivity so that people can extend it as they like, we just don't know.

[spmbx]

Cores being ported to the Pocket didn't slow down development for the Mister.

Not sure that point is true. For example jotego used to be on fire with his releases, nowadays it only seems to be pocket-this pocket-that, with high profile bugfixes and projects seemingly not being prioritized at all. I don't pay the guy and he can do with his time what he wants, so i don't mean this to be an entitled rant, it's just an observation.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Cores being ported to the Pocket didn't slow down development for the Mister.

Not sure that point is true. For example jotego used to be on fire with his releases, nowadays it only seems to be pocket-this pocket-that, with high profile bugfixes and projects seemingly not being prioritized at all.

This. Same example I had in my mind, as well, though I don't think he's exclusively focused on the Pocket, fortunately, for sure new developments slowed down as the porting thing increased. You never know if the money he gets thanks to the Pocket ports somehow helps or will help Mister cores, on the other hand, but diversification has this downside.

Didn't know that a Dreamcast core was already announced, anyway. It'll always amaze me how emulating home consoles you still can get easily is such a better lure than emulation of arcade PCBs.

[fernan1234]

It'll always amaze me how emulating home consoles you still can get easily is such a better lure than emulation of arcade PCBs.

Yep. Or expensive Japanese retro computers. I waited for a proper X68000 core for so long (and which Jotego said he'd do years ago) that I just ended up buying a real computer, much to the pain of my wallet.

Same with PC-98 though I never had much hopes with puu. On the bright side, a Marty core may happen, and MSX2 is close to being good enough thanks to Molekula.

[Guspaz]

I believe that MARS technically showed off a Naomi arcade core and not a Dreamcast core, but since the Naomi hardware is a pure superset of the Dreamcast (it has everything that a Dreamcast has plus a bunch of other stuff, like more RAM and some FPGAs), a Naomi core means you get a Dreamcast core without too much extra effort.

I do believe that it will require them to put an FPGA in their FPGA so that they can emulate while they emulate.

[neorichieb1971]

Sometimes I get confused if folk are in the gaming scene or the emulation scene.

On this forum you can't go 24 hours without someone throwing a hyperthetical emulation project into the mix. Its almost like the latest console is the R+D for the next emulation package.

[spmbx]

Sometimes I get confused if folk are in the gaming scene or the emulation scene.

On this forum you can't go 24 hours without someone throwing a hyperthetical emulation project into the mix. Its almost like the latest console is the R+D for the next emulation package.

I don't think i understand your point. It is because i am a gamer i'm interested in emulation and fpga "consoles". If i would have to buy a [insert random pcb name] for [insert ludicrous amount] i probably would have quit playing these games. I'm a gamer not a collector.

[neorichieb1971]

Every console ends being an emulation package is what I'm saying. Nothing to do with pcbs. You can emulate in 15000 ways but every other post is about cores, how a console can play roms or be hacked.

It's been going on for years I feel folk are more interested in jail breaking than playing games.

[spmbx]

Ah, yeah you have a point there i guess. There are lots of ways to get caught up in that, i tend to think the PVM/BVM folk are more busy polishing their screens than using them too for example. Anyway in that sense i think the analogue consoles might be ok. It is what it is, connect the hdmi and go.

[Bassa-Bassa]

You people do realize this is a hardware subforum, right?

[Lord of Pirates]

Every console ends being an emulation package is what I'm saying. Nothing to do with pcbs. You can emulate in 15000 ways but every other post is about cores, how a console can play roms or be hacked.

It's been going on for years I feel folk are more interested in jail breaking than playing games.

This is the case for some users, yes. I have a friend who's obsessed with emulation but barely plays games.

[neorichieb1971]

It is a hardware forum and the hardware is to play games. The analogue 3d isnt being sold to be jail broken it's been sold to play games on.

I am excited to play real n64 cartridges on the analogue 3d. I think I'm the only one of maybe a handful. The rest of you are salivating over another console to jailbreak.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Mate, there's no mention in the whole three pages of forum thread about jailbreak. Unless you count this:

I don't see many folk using the pocket with real cartridges

Posted by no other than neorichieb1971, BTW.

There's been discussion on how Analogue treat their customers, on how's their products quality, and on what to expect feature-wise given the piece of crap the N64 was regarding video rendering and output. It would make more sense a complaint about some of us derailing the topic with comments on other devices, but what's there to discuss right now about the Analogue 3D with such a hazy announcement, anyway.

I'm the first telling friends not to forget about playing games instead of toying with hardware, but when I go to a freaking hardware forum, and particularly one with so many experts as this one, the last I expect is finding people talking about how many times they beat Mario 64.