Super Nintendo Classic Edition (Star Fox 2)

[paulb_nl]

I have done some lag testing comparing the SNES classic against the OSSC + SNES with a 120fps camera. The SNES classic has 1 frame(16ms) more lag than OSSC + SNES with Mario World and Yoshi's Island. That is impressive.

Its strange that they couldn't achieve the same with the NES classic which has 2 frames of lag.

[donluca]

Hardware between the NES mini and SNES mini is identical.

Same exact board inside.

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... -mini-tech

[Josh128]

I have done some lag testing comparing the SNES classic against the OSSC + SNES with a 120fps camera. The SNES classic has 1 frame(16ms) more lag than OSSC + SNES with Mario World and Yoshi's Island. That is impressive.

Its strange that they couldn't achieve the same with the NES classic which has 2 frames of lag.

Just as I suspected-- less than 20ms lag. It just felt too responsive to me to be any more than that. Indeed that is strange if the NES classic mini has double the lag-- however, that was Nintendos original stab at this concept--some time has passed since then and maybe the hardware/software team took some of the criticism of the NES classic to heart and found some ways to improve upon it.

[Fudoh]

It's especially impressive because of the existing SNES emus running on ARM processors (like Retroarch with all available SNES cores) are so much slower. CatSFC (which is the fastest core available on the Pi3) is easily two frames behind Nintendo's own ARM emulator and others like SNES9x add two more frames on top of that.

[bigbadboaz]

Yeah, they clearly refined their software from NES to SNES. You can see it up front with small additions like the displayable frames.. much more important and great to know that they worked on performance as well.

[Tatsuya79]

It's especially impressive because of the existing SNES emus running on ARM processors (like Retroarch with all available SNES cores) are so much slower. CatSFC (which is the fastest core available on the Pi3) is easily two frames behind Nintendo's own ARM emulator and others like SNES9x add two more frames on top of that.

I'm not sure about Pi, but you can be 1 frame behind the real SNES using Snes9x on Retroarch with the right settings on an average PC. (with the right screen too of course)

4 additional frames seem quite long when the real SNES already has 3~4 frames of lag.

edit: Oh you're right, it can be 4 frames with Pi using opengl, forgot about that test. But I think it was before Brunnis found a way to gain 1 frame in snes cores.
Current snes9x and bsnes cores are 1 frame faster now for input lag.
So it's probably 3+ frames with opengl and 2+ frames with dispmanx of additional lag on a Pi compared to a real SNES atm.

[strayan]

Blog post with more details:
SNES Classic Edition - Observations and Captures

Spoiler

The snes classic has an integer scaling mode!?

[Fudoh]

the NES Mini did as well.

[strygo]

I've been a huge fan of the Super Famicom design since I saw it in Nintendo Power. I've continued to use an ascii pad controller since I was a kid because I liked the colored buttons so much.

I've been considering getting a SFC Mini due to this, but I've also been considering picking up a European model instead. Does anyone stateside have recommendations for retailers that will ship from Europe to the USA without issue? I'm not in a rush to get one and can wait until the dust settles on demand (assuming Nintendo actually makes good on its promise).

Thanks for the tips!

[Fudoh]

They're quite easily available over here. Pricing was bit of an issue since Nintendo doesn't provide MSRPs for their items over here and since Amazon stuck to it's initial 99 EUR listing, most other retailers used the same price.

[bobrocks95]

I've been a huge fan of the Super Famicom design since I saw it in Nintendo Power. I've continued to use an ascii pad controller since I was a kid because I liked the colored buttons so much.

I've been considering getting a SFC Mini due to this, but I've also been considering picking up a European model instead. Does anyone stateside have recommendations for retailers that will ship from Europe to the USA without issue? I'm not in a rush to get one and can wait until the dust settles on demand (assuming Nintendo actually makes good on its promise).

Thanks for the tips!

They're quite easily available over here. Pricing was bit of an issue since Nintendo doesn't provide MSRPs for their items over here and since Amazon stuck to it's initial 99 EUR listing, most other retailers used the same price.

I got one on Amazon from the UK for about 63 pounds after shipping, so around $85 USD. I guess it's in Germany that Amazon stuck with 99 EUR Fudoh?

[Guspaz]

I bought a UK version from GAME (which seems to be like the EB Games or GameStop of the UK), it cost me 90 pounds plus shipping.

I've been told that the reason that Amazon was cheaper is because Amazon refunded VAT for international orders, while GAME probably charged me VAT. So maybe I should try to get a refund, since I should not be paying VAT, especially if I end up having to pay Canadian sales tax on receipt.

[bobrocks95]

I bought a UK version from GAME (which seems to be like the EB Games or GameStop of the UK), it cost me 90 pounds plus shipping.

I've been told that the reason that Amazon was cheaper is because Amazon refunded VAT for international orders, while GAME probably charged me VAT. So maybe I should try to get a refund, since I should not be paying VAT, especially if I end up having to pay Canadian sales tax on receipt.

Oh wow, VAT is what, 20%? So I guess the base price from GAME was 75 pounds? Pretty crazy- base price at Amazon UK was 58.33. And I thought $80 USD stung a bit.

[Hoagtech]

I did not buy one because I own a RGB Modded 1-chip by Voultar.

I found it ironic that the brother of mine who did buy it, couldn't play 3 player on Secret of Mana coop with us.

I feel like the aspect ratio vs pixel definition debate has never been more alive since the NES Mini and now the SNES Classic Mini.

If you put the integer scaled based image into perfect circles, they would be tall watermelons.

[Guspaz]

I bought a UK version from GAME (which seems to be like the EB Games or GameStop of the UK), it cost me 90 pounds plus shipping.

I've been told that the reason that Amazon was cheaper is because Amazon refunded VAT for international orders, while GAME probably charged me VAT. So maybe I should try to get a refund, since I should not be paying VAT, especially if I end up having to pay Canadian sales tax on receipt.

Oh wow, VAT is what, 20%? So I guess the base price from GAME was 75 pounds? Pretty crazy- base price at Amazon UK was 58.33. And I thought $80 USD stung a bit.

Sorry, now that I look at my receipt, it was 79.99.

[strygo]

Thanks for the help. I'll keep an eye on these stores.

[LDigital]

I have a spare uk model that I would love to swap for a USA unit if anyone wants to make a trade

[Fudoh]

I guess it's in Germany that Amazon stuck with 99 EUR Fudoh?

yes, sorry. Germany and France to my knowledge.

[Chocograph]

I think I'm one of the few who was guaranteed a snes mini but cancelled my pre-order a few days ago because I have like fifty platforms to play SNES on.

[Sumez]

I guess it's in Germany that Amazon stuck with 99 EUR Fudoh?

yes, sorry. Germany and France to my knowledge.

Most store heres are selling them for around €180... this shit is ridiculous. When the machine was announced some preorders went up for around €90, but those were all cancelled or the stores used some terms clause to charge more for it eventually. Almost immediately after that, all preorders were €150 or higher, and now that the machine is actually out, everyone has adjusted their price to at least €180. I can't believe Nintendo lets this happen.

[geekmiki]

Consider yourself lucky to find it at 99€... Here in Norway, retail price is 1490 NOK (158€ / 187$), which makes it just too expensive for what it is.

[HydrogLox]

I can't believe Nintendo lets this happen.

It becomes much easier to believe once one stops viewing the NES/SNES Classic as a "product" in the business of "making money" but as a Nintendo "promotional item". But even Nintendo can't give away this many "promotional items" for free - so the twist is that they distribute them "at cost" (how much would the non-Nintendo titles cost together on VC?) through retail channels. So it wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo is treating the NES/SNES Classic as publicity campaigns rather than products.

it's not unusual for "desirable promotional items" that were only given out during certain events to become highly collectable and expensive - the NES/SNES classic phenomenon seems to be a variation on that theme.

[Josh128]

Played around with Star Fox 2 last night (actually the first time I ever laid eyes on the game), I didnt give it much time, but to me it seems awfully unpolished compared to Star Fox 1. Strange setup the way you must defend Corneria and I dont yet fully understand the "wingman" mechanics yet. That and some of the battles stages only last a minute or so then its back to the map? Guess I need to read the manual if there is one.

That said, the polygon detail/frame rate ratio does definitely seem superior to Star Fox 1. It would have been pretty impressive had it come out for the SNES say in 1994 or so. But we got PS1 in 95 and N64 in 96 so from a technical standpoint it would have been hard to impress anyone in 1996. Anyways, its still cool to have and I'll put some more time in it and eventually try to complete it.

I was able to try the Classic on one of my 1024 x 768 F4500 plasmas, and to my surprise, pixel perfect actually looks pixel perfect, even when zoomed in. I need more time to investigate, as it doesnt make sense, but it does out put 720p automatically when connected to the set. Being the set has rectangular pixels, I thought I would be able to see noticeable scrolling artifacts, but I dont.

Also, I must say the save state "rewind" feature is ultra cool-- Ive never played an NES classic and I dont know if the rewind feature was included there, but it works great and can really help a rusty old gamer through a run of say Contra 3 .

[Sumez]

it's not unusual for "desirable promotional items" that were only given out during certain events to become highly collectable and expensive - the NES/SNES classic phenomenon seems to be a variation on that theme.

Yes, that's what happened with the NES model. My issue here is that this time around it's the official retailers that do the same crap. This is bordering on price fixing cartels, which is illegal by the way.

[Sumez]

Also, I must say the save state "rewind" feature is ultra cool-- Ive never played an NES classic and I dont know if the rewind feature was included there, but it works great and can really help a rusty old gamer through a run of say Contra 3 .

Is it possible to disable that feature, or do you just have to push yourself to not use it? I think it's sad that officially released products have built in cheat devices that are so easy to access, but I get that it's the gist of the times.

[Fudoh]

well, you have to get up and push the reset button to use the "feature". So, that's usually reason enough not to use it

[Chocograph]

The Digital Foundry video actually shows it's got some image noise as well. Maybe minor but that really sucks.

[tomwhite2004]

The Digital Foundry video actually shows it's got some image noise as well. Maybe minor but that really sucks.

You will never ever know the noise is there though. I even looked for it before the DF video was out as I knew it was present on the NES classic. Every colour looks perfectly solid, its not an issue.

[bobrocks95]

Shoving my face into a 50" screen and I can't notice it either.

[BazookaBen]

So they've already ripped the ROM for Star Fox 2. Would it be possible to use the ROM on a Stunt Racer FX board or does it need a more advanced FX chip?