Least Favorite Cave Shooter

[MathU]

There are only a few CAVE games I even like in the first place, so I guess the question is which one has the most awful of all their awful scoring systems. Really tough decision to make.

[Obscura]

I think what Obscura means is, the first 3 stages in Ibara are too hard compared to Garegga's.

If that is his whole point and that's what apparently makes Ibara trash then LOL

First three stages of DOJ are much harder than the first three stages in DDP.

Thus DOJ = bad game.

Strawmen are valid arguments!

(I guess I shouldn't expect any better from a videogame forum that advocates looking up walkthroughs for every game you want to play, and then using cheats to learn little pieces as quickly as possible instead of actually playing the game.)

[Dave_K.]

I think most people have never played Deathsmiles II, which is why its barely mentioned in this thread, but least favorite by a long shot.





I don't know what this says, but I face-palmed like this guy after playing Deathsmiles II

[chempop]

(I guess I shouldn't expect any better from a videogame forum that advocates looking up walkthroughs for every game you want to play, and then using cheats to learn little pieces as quickly as possible instead of actually playing the game.)

This topic is about least favorite cave games not about save state practice and replay copying. My bad for defending Ibara by explaining that rank is actually very manageable.
It's just that when you make a big claim about a game, but don't quite have the experience to back it, there is always going to be a jackass (me in this case) who tries to set the record straight.

I didn't mean any person attack or anything, it's just that you are talking about the "rank spiking" and haven't gotten through the last 2 stages. For the record I don't use save state practice and am constantly giving people grief who use it (because I'm sorta a purist asshat). I also figure out my own routes 99% of the time and don't rely on copying superplays.

"lol bomb everything for roses and more medals" score system means that the entire system places scoring and survival at odds with each other, which is retarded and awful for a Yagawa game.

Scoring and survival simply are hand in hand, more score means more deaths = lower rank and more hadous (which is key).

[Obscura]

How does scoring lead to more hadous when scoring requires bombing everything (first two stages) or spamming every last hadou you have on key targets (stage 3 onwards)?

If you're not trying to score, it's not like you're going to be low on bombs to hadou with anyways, since you're not going to be using those "discretionary" fragments.

(And, again, if the score - die cycle was beneficial to rank like it is in Garegga, why does the medal waterfall cause rank to go up, not down?)

[cave hermit]

He died for your scrub-ishness.

[MachineAres 1CC]

(...sorta a purist asshat).

You just described most of shmups forums in one simple statement. Kudos.

[Despatche]

batsugun

I wish most of the forum was like chempop, let me tell you. These guys don't even play these games.

[Illyrian]

batsugun

I wish most of the forum was like chempop, let me tell you. These guys don't even play these games.

Oh you're doing that thing where you give the name of a Toaplan game to try and sound smart, because Toaplan became Cave. That is just adorable!

If we're playing that game, I choose Outzone!

Seriously though, get over yourself. Not every single thread in this forum needs to turn into a Despache argument shitstorm, you're almost as bad as Hagane talking about fighting games.

[Strikers1945guy]

Ibara is very manageable for a super low scoring low rank clear I think chempop did it like a week after owning the board?

[Shepardus]

Does anyone even have solid information on how the rank system in Ibara works like we do for Yagawa's Raizing games? Note that the medal fountain is also where superplayers such as Archer start saving up lives and bombs and intentionally driving up rank, and the game gets fairly difficult around stage 5 regardless of rank.

Even if the medal fountain does forcibly raise rank to a significant degree and can't be counteracted by suicides, that's basic risk/reward for you. Even the most basic games with scoring/extend systems based entirely on kills are risk/reward at their essence.

[Shalashaska]

Ibara

To be fair though, my experience is limited to the PS2 port and I bet I have less than 20 hours invested into it so I don't even "get" the game. I also haven't tried it probably since the PS2 port released; I just remember it being ridiculously hard.

[mamboFoxtrot]

The only CAVE game I dislike so far, and I don't even really dislike it all that much, is Deathsmiles. For the main six levels, the difficulty balance between the stages and the bosses is really off. On Rank 3, the bosses are about standard CAVE early/mid-game boss level, but the levels are almost unchanged from the breezy Rank 1, except for the Forest and Volcano stages, which are only a tiny bit more difficult. Really, it didn't take long for me to just be really bored with them. And, of course, the only thing after Rank 3 (other than Death mode, but that takes at least five stages to activate) is Rank 999, which is... a bit much in the opposite direction for me.
I never cared much for the scoring system, either, namely the part about memorizing which shot type to use on which enemy. I also don't really get why the give you a choice on what stage to go to when only certain stage orders make the bonus life and bomb items appear.

[Strikers1945guy]

Does anyone even have solid information on how the rank system in Ibara works like we do for Yagawa's Raizing games? Note that the medal fountain is also where superplayers such as Archer start saving up lives and bombs and intentionally driving up rank, and the game gets fairly difficult around stage 5 regardless of rank.

Even if the medal fountain does forcibly raise rank to a significant degree and can't be counteracted by suicides, that's basic risk/reward for you. Even the most basic games with scoring/extend systems based entirely on kills are risk/reward at their essence.

Watch the STGWeekly episode on it.

Everyone either play the shit ps2 port of ibara or seems to get the Pcb and claim it's too hard.

Most beginners of the game grab every falling thing on screen they can (medals, powerups) and get curbstomped by the stage 2 boss (if you don't know the trick) and claim it's too hard

Also this (you have to bomb everything) is really just stage 1 and 2 and that's for score. For a simple clear you won't bomb much of anything. You save bombs to make hadous to take down all the bosses easy.

Ibara is essentially battle garegga 2. If you want to say it's shit you are insulting Garegga to the same degree. If that's fine with you then cool but if you love garegga and say Ibara is shit then Bananamatic would say learn2play.

Except he doesn't play Yagawa games.

[iconoclast]

I also don't really get why the give you a choice on what stage to go to when only certain stage orders make the bonus life and bomb items appear.

Scoring differences.

[Obscura]

Does anyone even have solid information on how the rank system in Ibara works like we do for Yagawa's Raizing games? Note that the medal fountain is also where superplayers such as Archer start saving up lives and bombs and intentionally driving up rank, and the game gets fairly difficult around stage 5 regardless of rank.

Even if the medal fountain does forcibly raise rank to a significant degree and can't be counteracted by suicides, that's basic risk/reward for you. Even the most basic games with scoring/extend systems based entirely on kills are risk/reward at their essence.

Watch the STGWeekly episode on it.

Everyone either play the shit ps2 port of ibara or seems to get the Pcb and claim it's too hard.

Most beginners of the game grab every falling thing on screen they can (medals, powerups) and get curbstomped by the stage 2 boss (if you don't know the trick) and claim it's too hard

Also this (you have to bomb everything) is really just stage 1 and 2 and that's for score. For a simple clear you won't bomb much of anything. You save bombs to make hadous to take down all the bosses easy.

Ibara is essentially battle garegga 2. If you want to say it's shit you are insulting Garegga to the same degree. If that's fine with you then cool but if you love garegga and say Ibara is shit then Bananamatic would say learn2play.

Except he doesn't play Yagawa games.

>Save bombs to get past the first two stages easier
>essentially Battle Garegga 2

Bro, have you even played Garegga? You know, the game with the flamingos?!?!

(Actually, knowing this forum, you probably haven't actually played it, because it isn't Cave, and isn't danmaku either.)

[chempop]

Bro, have you even played Garegga? You know, the game with the flamingos?!?!

Good one Obscura
Also, trolling us about garegga and ibara, you are going to need to try a lot harder.
Cave told YGW to "make a sequel to garegga", and he did.

[Obscura]

Nah, it's actually a lot more like Batrider than Garegga. Except it's not nearly as good as Batrider.

[pokemon123]

daioujou and ddp. Hate the chaining in those games.

[KAI]

it's actually a lot more like Batrider than Garegga

Except it's not KOF95: The Shmup

[Despatche]

Oh you're doing that thing where you give the name of a Toaplan game to try and sound smart, because Toaplan became Cave. That is just adorable!

Not at all, Ikeda made Grind Stormer and Batsugun. Donpachi directly succeeded these games.

Seriously though, get over yourself. Not every single thread in this forum needs to turn into a Despache argument shitstorm, you're almost as bad as Hagane talking about fighting games.

The only thing that causes these "shitstorms" are bait posts like yours. I guess that's your point.

[Bananamatic]

Ibara is essentially battle garegga 2. If you want to say it's shit you are insulting Garegga to the same degree. If that's fine with you then cool but if you love garegga and say Ibara is shit then Bananamatic would say learn2play.

Except he doesn't play Yagawa games.

i'd tell you to play better games

[NTSC-J]

Aside from DFK BL and other remixed versions of previously mentioned games, the only Cave shooter left to be shat upon is Progear.

So if anyone wants to chime in to explain why someone who likes it is an idiot and/or be told that they're an idiot because they don't, now is your chance.

[Shepardus]

Not at all, Ikeda made Grind Stormer and Batsugun. Donpachi directly succeeded these games.

I get what you're saying (Batsugun in particular is really reminiscent of early CAVE), but technically that would also open up Battle Garegga and Yagawa's other pre-CAVE games for this thread. Though I guess we could do that since as NTSC-J pointed out we're running out of games to list here. Speaking of which, who wants to start the "Least Favorite Touhou Shooter" thread?

[Despatche]

That might be a bit boring. 90% of the thread would be 14 and 15 bashing.

I'm surprised noone's complained about DOJBL being too easy and Futari BL ruining their "perfect" game.

I don't really see a most favorite or least favorite in CAVE right now. However, I can say that I really like Grind Stormer and that I really hate Batsugun, so I just picked those. I wouldn't be able to do the same for Yagawa's games.

Ikeda is the king of CAVE. I feel that Grind Stormer and Batsugun are more "important" to CAVE, and I feel that Donpachi would have been made at Toaplan if they had lived long enough. Meanwhile, Yagawa was kinda "drafted" years later and slowly had the power of CAVE beaten into him.

I really appreciate the OP's understanding of language. It used to seem like the universally hated game was Donpachi, but there are a lot of people here who actually like the game.

[Blinge]

I tried gitting gud at esp.rade a couple of weeks ago.

I haven't wanted to play shmups since.

[Nameschonvergeben]

I hope you learned your lesson, don't try to git gud

[AxelMill]

Speaking of which, who wants to start the "Least Favorite Touhou Shooter" thread?

I'd really want someone to create a "Best and Worst" thread (only one, two are unnecessary, in my opinion) for every major developer (Psikyo, Raizing, Taito, ZUN...), because I like this kind of stuff. If no one does so, and if mods allow this board to be filled with these, I'll take the lead. One each week, maybe.
Tell me what you guys think!

[Strikers1945guy]

Does anyone even have solid information on how the rank system in Ibara works like we do for Yagawa's Raizing games? Note that the medal fountain is also where superplayers such as Archer start saving up lives and bombs and intentionally driving up rank, and the game gets fairly difficult around stage 5 regardless of rank.

Even if the medal fountain does forcibly raise rank to a significant degree and can't be counteracted by suicides, that's basic risk/reward for you. Even the most basic games with scoring/extend systems based entirely on kills are risk/reward at their essence.

Watch the STGWeekly episode on it.

Everyone either play the shit ps2 port of ibara or seems to get the Pcb and claim it's too hard.

Most beginners of the game grab every falling thing on screen they can (medals, powerups) and get curbstomped by the stage 2 boss (if you don't know the trick) and claim it's too hard

Also this (you have to bomb everything) is really just stage 1 and 2 and that's for score. For a simple clear you won't bomb much of anything. You save bombs to make hadous to take down all the bosses easy.

Ibara is essentially battle garegga 2. If you want to say it's shit you are insulting Garegga to the same degree. If that's fine with you then cool but if you love garegga and say Ibara is shit then Bananamatic would say learn2play.

Except he doesn't play Yagawa games.

>Save bombs to get past the first two stages easier
>essentially Battle Garegga 2

Bro, have you even played Garegga? You know, the game with the flamingos?!?!

(Actually, knowing this forum, you probably haven't actually played it, because it isn't Cave, and isn't danmaku either.)

I compared ibara to being garegga 2 as it is basically the spiritual successor. It's the closest we will ever get to a Garegga 2 from Yagawa. I didn't say the levels were identical you pleb.

Why do I even bother. You're right !! I haven't played garegga! I don't own the Pcb ! I didn't vote it in the top 5 of the best games ever !

Yagawa hate is strong in this thread. Let the hate flow through your blood.

[Bananamatic]

y u mad tho