What is your favourite shooter and why?

[Sakurei]

I don't want to say elitism, but elitism.

Get out.

Elitism = Pointing out that maybe this guy doesn't actually know anything about the game he likes.

That's good to know then. But you know what they say: That love is blind. I suppose it is not my place to deny a man's pure love for a shooter.

[Eaglet]

Garegga of course.
Because it's the only game i can still play regularly after almost 4 years without getting tired of it.
There's also more depth in it than i'll ever be able to access and that's a good thing.

[Shepardus]

I don't want to say elitism, but elitism.

Get out.

Elitism = Pointing out that maybe this guy doesn't actually know anything about the game he likes.

That's good to know then. But you know what they say: That love is blind. I suppose it is not my place to deny a man's pure love for a shooter.

So what's the required score/graze counter before you're allowed to like UFO? (and while we're at it, how about IN? Do I need to be good at that game to have a valid opinion of it or is it fine to like it while being bad at it because you don't think it's as flawed?)

[Squire Grooktook]

I don't want to say elitism, but elitism.

Get out.

Elitism = Pointing out that maybe this guy doesn't actually know anything about the game he likes.

That's good to know then. But you know what they say: That love is blind. I suppose it is not my place to deny a man's pure love for a shooter.

I'm sorry but you couldn't have sounded more like the stereotypical raging forum nerd with your aggressive, zealous, and self-insistent inquisition/grilling of somebody just because they said they liked a game.

I'm all for appreciating the fine nuances of a game, but it sounded like you were using your supposed competence at the games to bully somebody who holds a differing opinion into submission ("I have higher scores therefore my opinions are more valid"...nevermind that not everyone who has high scores at a game necessarily have the same opinions on it...). Congrats on being right on the internet, at any rate!

[Nameschonvergeben]

Elitism = Pointing out that maybe this guy doesn't actually know anything about the game he likes.

That's good to know then. But you know what they say: That love is blind. I suppose it is not my place to deny a man's pure love for a shooter.

I'm sorry but you couldn't have sounded more like the stereotypical raging forum nerd with your aggressive, zealous, and self-insistent inquisition/grilling of somebody just because they said they liked a game.

I'm sorry but you couldn't have sounded more like the stereotypical raging forum nerd with your aggressive, zealous, and self-insistent inquisition/grilling of somebody just because they said to post a score

[Squire Grooktook]

Nice job calling in your Touhou lackeys. You guys got a secret treehouse or pillow fort or something?

[Sakurei]

So what's the required score/graze counter before you're allowed to like UFO? (and while we're at it, how about IN? Do I need to be good at that game to have a valid opinion of it or is it fine to like it while being bad at it because you don't think it's as flawed?)

Really, any run that full milk Ichirin (Midboss non, first non and second non if lunatic or hard. All of them if easy or normal). You're completely missing the point. It is not about a minimum score or graze counter, it is about Ichirin being a dumb shit of a boss, but being so completely vital for scoring in this game. UFO has other issues, of course (like UFOs becoming invincible whenever the fuck they want once they reach 2 seconds or so) but Ichirin is really the shittiest part about UFO. So saying he actually thinks she's a fun boss must mean he has at least 1 fun with full milking and if he doesn't, he's just full of shit because he doesn't even play the game properly. Not to mention he showed that he has no idea about either UFO or IN by saying IN gives you more lives when if fact you're not supposed to use most of them; a good run will suicide once at best in IN. So from an optimization standpoint, UFO gives you more lives. (of course, the nature of IN allows death without completely ruining your run depending on where it happens, but it's bad so I don't factor that in right now).

Nameschonvergeben isn't my lackey. He's just another scrub I know. But yes, we do have a secret pillow fort and you aren't invited. We're gonna have fun by ourselves.

[KAI]

2hu
serious business
always

[Hagane]

]it is about Ichirin being a dumb shit of a boss, but being so completely vital for scoring in this game

I love graze milking Ichirin's patterns (very hard to execute), and I'm completely fine with suiciding for score, something you seem to think it wrong for no reason at all.

Not to mention he showed that he has no idea about either UFO or IN by saying IN gives you more lives when if fact you're not supposed to use most of them;

Seems like you have no idea about reading comprehension. IN objectively does give you more lives; whether you need to suicide or not for score is irrelevant. But UFO being much harder survival wise due to, among other things, giving you a lot less resources, is relevant despite how much you want to twist things to try to make your opinion look right.

[Nameschonvergeben]

If UFO gives you less resources for survival than IN you must be really bad

[Bananamatic]

S D O J
D
O
J

[Hagane]

If UFO gives you less resources for survival than IN you must be really bad

Surviving =/= playing for survival. To get resources in UFO you must actively ignore scoring UFOs, in a game like IN you are given resources no matter what. To make it easier to read for the likes of you: UFO is much less forgiving.

[Shepardus]

S D O J
D
O
J

Out of curiosity, which one do you like more, Futari Ultra or SDOJ?

[Bananamatic]

hard to say with the futari port being perfect and the sdoj port being shit
but probably sdoj

[Sakurei]

]it is about Ichirin being a dumb shit of a boss, but being so completely vital for scoring in this game

I love graze milking Ichirin's patterns (very hard to execute), and I'm completely fine with suiciding for score, something you seem to think it wrong for no reason at all.

Not to mention he showed that he has no idea about either UFO or IN by saying IN gives you more lives when if fact you're not supposed to use most of them;

Seems like you have no idea about reading comprehension. IN objectively does give you more lives; whether you need to suicide or not for score is irrelevant. But UFO being much harder survival wise due to, among other things, giving you a lot less resources, is relevant despite how much you want to twist things to try to make your opinion look right.

This is going to be my last post because evidently you're not going to post your scores.

If you want hard execution, PCB, IN (and probably EoSD) are much more difficult overall than UFO. Then again, to think that hard = good is stupid anyway. I never said suiciding for score is wrong. I think PoDD, EoSD, PCB and GFW are good games and they all gave suicides in their route. UFO is bad for other reasons.

IN gives you more lives in total numbers, but you are supposed to use 0 of them for most shots, whereas UFO uses up all their lives, sometimes skipping very difficult attacks (e.g the midboss in stage 5). That is what I was saying. This is an optimal run scenario that is unlikely to happen. And I did say that IN is more lenient because your run isn't dead by dying just once, in most cases.

In any case, I can't believe you like milking Ichirin without posting any scores or runs that at least attempt doing so. Maybe you just like other people doing it in which case, you just like watching the game but not play it.

[Squire Grooktook]

you must be really bad

POST YUR SCORES DURR HURR I'M SO FUNNEH

I've never liked that weird little toohoo clique* around here ever since that hilariously stupid thread that resulted in Zengeku being banned (wherein they all acted like unfunny asshats), but geez you guys make yourselves hard to like with every post.

Here's some advice: restructure your entire internet persona's from the ground up. You guys don't post that often, so it shouldn't be too hard to divorce yourself from the brand.



*

Spoiler

You can tell who's a part of the little offsite group by the sudden appearance of 1 or more low post count users out of nowhere backing each-other up whenever one of them starts an argument (almost always caused by them and somewhat related to Touhou).

[Seppo Hovi]

Stop liking touhou games I don't like.

[Xyga]

I wonder if SkyKid still has that meat grinder around.

[Bydobasher]

R-Type. The artwork is beautiful. The weapon system unprecedented -- so powerful and flexible. The stage design is unmatched; for example the checkpoint halfway through stage 7 could not be more perfectly constructed. It's exhilarating to 1LC the game, but it's just as much fun to die at every checkpoint and fight your way to the end. It will soon be 30 years old but I have not played a shmup I admire and enjoy more.

[Nameschonvergeben]

you must be really bad

POST YUR SCORES DURR HURR I'M SO FUNNEH

I've never liked that weird little toohoo clique* around here ever since that hilariously stupid thread that resulted in Zengeku being banned (wherein they all acted like unfunny asshats), but geez you guys make yourselves hard to like with every post.

Here's some advice: restructure your entire internet persona's from the ground up. You guys don't post that often, so it shouldn't be too hard to divorce yourself from the brand.



*

Spoiler

You can tell who's a part of the little offsite group by the sudden appearance of 1 or more low post count users out of nowhere backing each-other up whenever one of them starts an argument (almost always caused by them and somewhat related to Touhou).

Great out of context quote, if you look at my post and are not already set on hating me because I'm part of some evil clique, you will notice that the implication was, that UFO does in fact give more resources than IN if you play for survival and not that he is actually bad.

I guess to prevent the argument that would be the logical consequence I should also add that it is kind of out of place to discuss which game is harder survival wise in a scoring run between IN and UFO because a scoring run of IN has almost no survivalstrats except for very few spells. (this was bascially just a misunderstanding that has now been clarified)

Now that I'm already making an unnecessairy post to reply to your unnecessairy post, I also want to use this opportunity to ask you the (rhetorical) question if you really think it is a good idea to call people, that ask someone - who says that he enjoys scoring - to post a score, elitist and then at the same time make fun of peoples postcount (of all things).

Anyways I hope we can stop derailing this thread now, since scores won't be posted and there is nothing else to say, unless of course you again feel the need to insult us for great justice.

[Squire Grooktook]

Great out of context quote, if you look at my post and are not already set on hating me because I'm part of some evil clique,

I don't hate you because your a part of an evil clicque, I simply mistrusted you from the beginning when you appeared out of nowhere on a forum you obviously don't frequent otherwise, in order to back up your buddy. It feels like something straight out of the playground, which is further reinforced by your "I know you are, but what am I!"-esque first post.

, I also want to use this opportunity to ask you the (rhetorical) question if you really think it is a good idea to call people, that ask someone - who says that he enjoys scoring - to post a score, elitist

No, I think it's elitist to see someone saying "I like this game!" and then start an argument about why their opinion is wrong while constantly insinuating a lack of skill or effort all the while in order to cow them into shutting up.

My advice would be to just accept that maybe these things are subjective and that there's no harm in someone liking something you don't like (and vice versa) and refrain from trying to "prove" anything, especially with "POST YUR SCOREZ".

The scoring thing isn't even valid anyway. Many of the people who make these games (Ikeda etc.) often admit to not being too great at them. Game design knowledge, taste, and skill are all completely different things. And besides, even if he did have a decent/average score+clear, putting someone on the spot like that is a good way to get them to lose confidence in it and just shut up, which I suspect might be the sole advantage (and possibly the main intention) of that demand.

unless of course you again feel the need to insult us for great justice.

I suggest leaving the hive mind. Hive minds and group identity are pretty bad in general. You'll thank me.

[Frenetic]

Let's keep the discussion friendly, please.

--F

[Squire Grooktook]

My apologies, I'll drop it (I can delete the previous and current post and leave it, if anyone wants).

Next post I make will be about Dangun Feveron or something.

[chum]

apologies on the behalf of my clique in the treehosue but just want to mention something you apparently didn't pick up on

you made more than one post where you were clearly not happy about two posters banding together. I got the same sense from Hagane's post. so referring them as "us" is understandable, keeping that in mind, and perhaps not something he would have done otherwise, nor anything that implies "hivemind".

dangun is kool.

but great fairy wars is best game.

thanks

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah.

After cooling off a bit, I have to say I'm sorry if I came off too strongly or insulted anyone, though I do not retract my opinion about certain posts that were made and how they came off.

Keep in mind, I may not like certain posts or posting habits, but I make no real presumptions about peoples fundamental character* or intelligence based on internet talk. I don't hold a grudge if I stop seeing that behavior, either.

Sorry if there were any hurt feelings, I should have held myself back a little more.

Next post will be about Dangun. And Garegga.



*Except that guy who started talking about his rape fetish and wacko anti-birth philosophies on a fighting game forum. That guy was a nut.

[finisherr]

I'd say Furtari black label. Like the different modes. If that didn't exist then ddp doj as close second. So many good games though. DDP SDOJ is great too, just a bit above my skill level to really enjoy it.

[gimebe]

My favorite shooter is Boost, from Crimzon Clover.

The mechanics of the scoring system are simple, but bear repeating:

• The hypers of regular Crimzon Clover have been replaced with Boost Break, where there is only a single hyper gauge (instead of two gauges on top of each other, one for Single Break and one for Double Break) that will automatically make you enter Boost Break when the gauge is filled, and fills up the gauge again after entering Boost Break.
• Break rate, the big score multiplier in Crimzon Clover, is tied to the progression of the hyper gauge. After entering Boost Break, it scales from 8.0 to 16.0. Further, at 16.0 (Boost Gauge MAX), you gain major additional bonuses on top to the Boost Timer, survival points, chip points, and star items gained from point-blanking.
• The rank is also tied to this gauge. From 8.0 to 16.0 Break Rate, it increases linearly. Once at Boost Gauge MAX, rank keeps increasing based on two factors: the amount of Boost Timer accumulated and the star items gained since entering Boost Break. At Break Rate 8.0 - 15.9, enemies release a small amount of suicide bullets aimed directly at the player. At Boost Gauge MAX, enemies release more suicide bullets. At low rank, suicide bullets will slow down depending on your distance from the enemy; once the rank is high enough, they stop slowing down and will be fired at full speed even at close range, unless sealed with pointblanking.
• To control rank, you can use a bomb, which will take you out of Break Mode. Taking an E-item pick-up right after using a bomb allows you to re-enter Boost Mode quickly afterwards, and is the main rank control method used.
• The lock-on shot is similar to that in normal Crimzon Clover: you acquire a lock-on multiplier by killing enemies using the game's radar laser, and kill enemies when it's active to get more points. The Boost Timer increases when you stay in Boost Break, and gives major boosts for milking bosses by killing all of their parts. Pointblanking is also a major source of points, giving more star items and chip points. An important detail to note is that the amount of survival points and chip points increases based on your star item count - this means that taking a star item pick-up has potential score gain throughout the rest of the run beyond the immediate score, and pointblanking for stars is also worth more than the initial gains.

The resulting system is simple and sinister: very balanced and accessible to players of all levels with basics that are easily picked up, while having a lot of room for optimization throughout the game. At a low rank, applying scoring techniques is quite feasible. An entry-level player (such as myself) can bomb for rank control on every E-item to keep the rank relatively low throughout the game, and use bombs during boss fights for additional management. For stronger players, the sky is the limit; the chaining is simple at low rank, but becomes far less trivial when the bullet speed is very high and allows no room for mistakes.



Now let me tell you why I love the game so much.

• The gameplay, graphics and sound are smooth as butter, owing to it being Crimzon Clover. The reverse-Ketsui lock-on shot is amazingly fun to use, and has similar pointblanking as it locks on faster if you're closer.
• In particular, the rank system is transparent and gives power to the player, unlike most of its kind. It is the primary scoring mechanic, without relying on exponential scoring; even with generous rank control, it's possible to reach high scores, while still rewarding higher risk appropriately for the strong.
• Very fast bullet patterns with a small hitbox. The bullet patterns of the game are a mix of more traditional shooter attacks and bullet hell - and it strikes a much better balance in that regard than say, Mushihimesama Original. I think the implementation of suicide bullets is fantastic - they make up more than half of the bullets in Boost Break while blending seamlessly into the patterns.
• Great variance in shot types, with all four being viable and having unique playstyles. In Crimzon Clover's other modes, every ship becomes a wrecking ball with a screen-wide shot during Double Break and don't have a highly different feel; but in Boost, all shots retain their characteristics throughout the game. Type-II's trace options can cover nearly anything, but require challenging micromanagement. Type-III's narrow shot stays narrow throughout, and forces larger movements than on the other; its lock-on shot also doesn't generate chip points, so it is important to focus on its more powerful frontal shot. The Type-I's speed is more of a disadvantage than in other modes, and is very different from both Type-II and Type-III. And the Type-Z, the overpowered ship, is the easiest to play; but its scoring potential is balanced by it getting only half of the survival points and chip points of the other ships, making it the lowest-scoring ship in the mode.
• Did I mention the rank system yet? The way it scales to higher scores is great. It is like boiling a frog alive, sucking in the player while tempting them with the potential gains of playing at higher rank.
• The game has a TLB, but it is not a resource check or a survival-focused effort. Instead, the fight is difficult but fair, and has a lot of scoring potential - both forms of the TLB have a lot of Boost Timer to give if killed in Break Mode, especially at max gauge. I think the TLB is better than any of the other ones in Crimzon Clover.

In my opinion, the only flaws of the game are that it's not a good game for survival play and largely inferior to Crimzon Clover's other modes in that regard: without scoring, you miss out on half of the bullets due to the lack of suicide bullets (which makes the patterns dull as hell), and the speed is slow; and the very lengthy boss milking on some bosses, mainly on Hecatoncheir and Diabolos.

In the spirit of posting your scores, here is my current PB. For an example of high-level play, fufufu's replay is the WR as far as I know, and shows the extent of its depth.

the reason i like it more than other crimzon clover modes could be that i can't dodge bullets

[chempop]

Dimahoo, because our treehouse is exceptionally roomy (there are 3 of us), and it's fun to occasionally throw rocks and pinecones at the touhou treehouse.

[Frenetic]

Thank you so much everyone!

[Illyrian]

Definitely Futari BL.

It's the shmup that really got me into these games in the first place, and original mode was my first ever Cave 1cc.

The 3 scoring systems are great. Original mode can be really tough if you get to high counter. Maniac/Godmode just feel amazing, letting the screen fill up with bullets and getting massive cancels is so awesome!