No sex please, we're Japanese

[greg]

No, I just find it interesting that you live in China and unless I'm mistaken, so often you want to complain about how F'ed up Japan is. I'm not defending Japan at all, and what GP just said is totally correct. It just seems to me (and maybe I'm mistaken, since I don't spend much time on this forum anyway) that you often bring up topics like this to rant about Japan's social problems, such as these celibate otaku pussies and such. I'm sure the video you shared is interesting, and again maybe I'm totally wrong about this, but I would think that since you live in China, you wouldn't be so focused on Japan's problems so much.

Maybe you don't even live in China. Maybe I'm wrong on that point, too.

[Skykid]

No, I just find it interesting that you live in China and unless I'm mistaken, so often you want to complain about how F'ed up Japan is.

I like complaining/discussing anything that's fucked up, don't take it personally if it lands on your shores today. Tomorrow it will be someone else's.

you often bring up topics like this to rant about Japan's social problems, such as these celibate otaku pussies and such.

Ha ha, "celibate otaku pussies"! That's a good one, I'll make a note of that. This thread is about Japan's celibate otaku pussies, most other times I'm referring to the celibate otaku pussies of the world, or weeaboos, who are products of Japanese otaku pussyness. Let's be reasonable here, no-one escapes the firing line regardless of race. That would be... racist?

I'm sure the video you shared is interesting

I thought so! Only Blackoak bloody watched it though (thanks Blackoak!)

But I would think that since you live in China, you wouldn't be so focused on Japan's problems so much.

I'm not focussed on Japan's problems. It's not something I think about when I get up in the morning. I watched a documentary, here's a thread. Not the most incredible chain of events, but there was a two-step domino effect.

Maybe you don't even live in China.

I was back in London for three months, recently in Hong Kong, as of today I'm back in China. Not too goofy yet, but I'll let you know if anything happens that's as relevant as the entire country not fucking and threatening the future of its economy.

(EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the 300dpi Sengoku Ace flyer, was win. Always on the lookout for Koyori boob fetishism.)

[brownvim]

Anywho, I contribute a handful of things to why they live so long, and why they are indeed way thinner than their wester counerparts.

1: Walking almost everywhere. This is a city phenomenon, but I'd say there's more of this in the cuntryside than in just about any part of the west
2: Green Tea (and lots of it)
3: Food portions are low. Just... low. No other way to say it.
4: Japanese food is simply healthier. The junkiest thing is the fried stuff, and even that isn't as bad as fucking McDonalds.
5: Universal Healthcare. There's a scary number of quacks parading around as doctors, but everyone gets at least some kind of coverage.

Interesting, I can do small portions, walking and green tea, more years gaming

Off to google a typical Japanese diet.

[Randorama]

I like complaining/discussing anything that's fucked up.

Lies.

Have you ever complained about yourself, at least on this forum? Each single thread you post on anything non-videogame related makes me desire that my Grandfather's side would have won WWII. Among other things, you invariably post "links for discussion" based on sensationalistic videos that simply mispresent something, for whatever purposes. So, any of your "complaints" are at best non-sense (Johnathan Ingram made the most pertinent comment, on this matter). Do you actually read, or just watch the funny pictures?


Whoever unbanned you should feel ashamed.

[Wenchang]

- Most of the "pandering to shut-ins," otaku culture, and such is relatively niche in Japan. They are not any kind of barometer for the behavior of the mainstream Japanese. It's also preposterous to suggest we have any actual knowledge about how much sex the Japanese are having, this is largely speculation(and btw the demand for things like love hotels or the high amount of female participation in the pornographic industry are not exactly good evidence for the claim that the Japanese are not having enough sex, quite the opposite.)

- People who talk of "debt burdens" have no idea how floating currencies work. The debt, which is almost entirely held by the domestic population by the way, is a non-issue. If it was an issue you would see investment in Japan suffer tremendously, but contrary to that, the yen has been looked at as a safe haven for years now.

- As others have pointed out, population decline is taking place in much of the 1st world, why is no one writing about how Germany is doomed because of low birth rates? Should we expect that Germany's low birth rates have something to do with pandering to shut-ins etc?

- The idea that a declining population leads to either a weaker economy or worse living standards is nonsense. In a country like Japan in particular, which has a shortage of arable land(and is resource poor in general), overpopulation is a much bigger problem(there's a reason Japan is one of the biggest purchasers of meat from the U.S. and why food is so expensive there). Japan incidentally has historically recognized this and that is why there have been many attempts to curb population growth.

The exception to this was in the imperial era when Japan was seeking to expand. Not long after WW2 Japanese en masse(rightly so as food shortages were a serious problem in much of the years following the war) began to have only one child and that is what has lead to the supposed "demographic crisis" you see today. One could conceivably argue that as the prices for world resources continue to increase, a declining population will be great for Japan(it also helps that they don't drive everywhere like Americans do, and can rely on an efficient public transportation system, this is also a big positive).

Perhaps if you're an economy which relies on massive pools of cheap, unskilled labor, and are unable to evolve past this, population growth is desired. But that description hasn't been an accurate one for Japan in decades. Perhaps no country in the world is more responsible for high-end producer goods(in particular in the electronics industry) and a decline in population growth will have zero impact on this state of affairs. There is no demographic reason to believe Japan's strong export performance(one of the strongest current accounts surpluses in the world) will cease, and it is exports that are the backbone of the Japanese economic system. In fact a growing middle class in places like China only means an even bigger market for Japanese goods(which is something we're already seeing, ignore the rhetoric and look at Japan and China's actual trade relations and you will already see how Japan is benefitting from China's rise).

Try looking for clear historical examples of a nation's economic activity dissipating due to a declining population. Good luck finding some. You'll have a much easier time however finding examples of famines, infrastructure problems, diseases spreading better due to high population density, and general instability in areas featuring high population growth. Finally the point should be made that young children who are not members of the workforce are no less a burden than old retired people, a point that is always ignored in these types of discussions(or how about another point: nations with high population growth tend also to have high emigration rates, how is this good for the economy or general stability?). Moreover if you actually look at the data, long-term Japan's total population will decline, but the ratio of elderly to young is going to change rather drastically, right now and in the near future Japan is an aging population, but this is a temporary situation for obvious reasons.

- Some may say that healthcare wise the growth of an elderly population is an issue for the Japanese. I would suggest anyone raising such concerns actually do a google search to see how much Japan spends on healthcare relative to other first world nations. They spend almost nothing and get very good results(partly because Japan price controls and regulates the fuck out of the health industry to ensure it remains affordable). If any nation can afford an increase in healthcare needs, it's Japan.

- More big picture, Japan is one of the strongest exporting nations in the world, it is stable(low crime and disease rates, highest life expectancy of any major nation, low emigration, minimal security threats, a high amount of economic activity), has excellent public infrastructure, has low unemployment rates, does not have the type of unstable corporate behavior you see in places like the U.S., but because of anecdotal evidence, *insert niche Japanese cultural product which has managed to become relevant outside of Japan*, and the fact that population density is going to decline(as if that's a bad thing), we are expected to view the country as suffering from some major crises in the future. Ridiculous.

Also this, though ignore the hyperbolic last paragraph: http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingl ... nough-sex/

1: Walking almost everywhere. This is a city phenomenon, but I'd say there's more of this in the cuntryside than in just about any part of the west
2: Green Tea (and lots of it)
3: Food portions are low. Just... low. No other way to say it.
4: Japanese food is simply healthier. The junkiest thing is the fried stuff, and even that isn't as bad as fucking McDonalds.
5: Universal Healthcare. There's a scary number of quacks parading around as doctors, but everyone gets at least some kind of coverage.

I agree with most of this, especially point 1, 3, and 5. However, it is worth noting that Japan has the second most McDonalds' in the world and that the reputation of the Japanese "eating healthy" compared to Westerners in recent years is much exaggerated. The fact that they simply eat less and that they have to walk more as part of their daily commutes I think are the more important points as far as obesity. Point #5 is the important as far as overall health indicators.

You expect that though. Japan has this image of being refined, efficient, and technology-embracing.

lol

Japanese manufacturers are refined, efficient, and technology embracing, and in many cases are the best in the world at what they do. The problem is people confuse that state of affairs to how the general population is, and that's obviously not accurate. However there are some public infrastructure domains where Japan is all of the things you described. Compare their transportation and communication infrastructure to the much of the West, in particular the U.S. To say they come out "favorably" in that comparison would be quite the understatement.

[moh]

I WANT YOU ON ME NOW.

[Skykid]

I like complaining/discussing anything that's fucked up.

Lies.

Have you ever complained about yourself, at least on this forum? Each single thread you post on anything non-videogame related makes me desire that my Grandfather's side would have won WWII. Among other things, you invariably post "links for discussion" based on sensationalistic videos that simply mispresent something, for whatever purposes. So, any of your "complaints" are at best non-sense (Johnathan Ingram made the most pertinent comment, on this matter). Do you actually read, or just watch the funny pictures?


Whoever unbanned you should feel ashamed.

Why would anyone complain "about themselves"?

You do love your pot shots, eh Randy. I rarely post links for discussion based on videos, this is an exception. Sensationalistic topics? Sure, if it makes for good discussion, why not.

Insinuating the Nazi's would have been better off wiping out the English is rather coarse, too, but thankfully it didn't happen.

[Vamos]

I like complaining/discussing anything that's fucked up.

Lies.

Have you ever complained about yourself, at least on this forum? Each single thread you post on anything non-videogame related makes me desire that my Grandfather's side would have won WWII. Among other things, you invariably post "links for discussion" based on sensationalistic videos that simply mispresent something, for whatever purposes. So, any of your "complaints" are at best non-sense (Johnathan Ingram made the most pertinent comment, on this matter). Do you actually read, or just watch the funny pictures?


Whoever unbanned you should feel ashamed.

Never a truer word spoken.

[pestro87]

I'm sure the video you shared is interesting

I thought so! Only Blackoak bloody watched it though (thanks Blackoak!)

I actually watched the entire documentary and I thought that it was pretty interesting. I doubt that the otaku culture is the root cause for the declining birth rate but it may be a side-effect of something else that's related to it.

I don't have much to add other than thanks for sharing and I hope that the new president will be able to do something about some of the issues that Japan is facing.

[Skykid]

Never a truer word spoken.

Never ever?

I'm sure the video you shared is interesting

I thought so! Only Blackoak bloody watched it though (thanks Blackoak!)

I actually watched the entire documentary and I thought that it was pretty interesting. I doubt that the otaku culture is the root cause for the declining birth rate but it may be a side-effect of something else that's related to it.

I don't have much to add other than thanks for sharing and I hope that the new president will be able to do something about some of the issues that Japan is facing.

Hey no worries, glad some folks watched it. It's kind of surface level BBC broadcasting, but still quite fascinating subject matter. I don't think Otaku is the root cause of the issue, as JI said it's a combination of social and cultural factors that have compounded the problem, but in return Otaku are doing better with digital relations and subsequently putting the future economy at risk. Observing the content of general media and how much is tailored toward Otaku fans, I feel a certain level of irresponsible 'pandering' has occurred. It's not the sort of thing that encourages people to make babies.

Abe injected 7 trillion dollars into the economy, but to be honest that's likely to be the extent of his tricks. It will generate new business in the short, but I can't see it doing much for the debt per capita in the long run short of a miracle!

[Mischief Maker]

I think it is an interesting topic BUT not for Japan alone. I think it is unfair to point at Japan and talk about lack of a sex drive when other countrys have similar problems. Sexual dysfunction is a worldwide problem.

[...]

If you want my honest answer. I think the modern civilization in general is killing off our libido, no only in Japan

I sort of agree sort of disagree. I can only speak from my ugly American perspective, but I think the civilized world is currently in the middle of a cultural transition. We have one foot in the 20th century and one foot in the bronze age, and there has yet to be a Council of Nicea to reconcile the incompatible values of these two ages. Some think turning the clock back to the pre-feminist "good old days" will solve this crisis by putting us back in a situation where everyone knew their place. I, personally, am of the opinion that the solution is to ditch the obsolete bronze age rules and embrace the egalitarian sexuality we as a species are evolved for. Until some consensus is reached, we are stuck in cultural limbo.

Thus, "women" have the right to the same sexual promiscuity as men, but if an individual woman avails herself of this right, her female friends will label her a "slut" and shank her. Modern men disdain "gold diggers" and desire relationships with women who truly love us for who we are, but our default activities for courting women revolve around plying her with money or things worth money. The incompatible forces pulling people in opposite directions while they look for sex, which from a biological perspective is supposed to be a RELIEF from stress, can easily cause several people to check out from the whole endeavor, at least on a temporary basis.

And don't forget the destructive effects of the lottery mentality: Stick with a situation that makes you miserable for several days/months/years until BAM! You hit a payoff that fulfills your every need and desire so much more perfectly than if you'd tried to satisfy yourself on a daily basis. The longer you put off your happiness, the better you get at putting it off and next thing you know you're going through a mid-life crisis.

Money is an abstract concept while overpopulation is a substantive threat to the world. I don't see declining birth rates as a bad thing, but declining sex rates are a VERY dangerous thing. If 9/11 taught us anything, it's never underestimate the destructive power of pathetic horny men.

[Randorama]

Why would anyone complain "about themselves"?

Public complaints, who knows: but frankly, self-criticism is part and parcel of growing up.

You do love your pot shots, eh Randy. I rarely post links for discussion based on videos, this is an exception.

I fail to remember one. Care to offer evidence?

Sensationalistic topics? Sure, if it makes for good discussion, why not.

This is non-sense. You posted a video from BBC that revolves around fried air. Others have explained why:

a. A statistically insignificant segment of the population is not bringing Japan to collapse (or whatever);
b. Anyway, first world countries show similar trends of "chastity";

Besides, since the 19th century the press of your beloved UK has always loved to depict other countries as having all kinds of fundamental and not so fundamental problems, as a means to distract the masses from the problems at home. You could write a Ph.D. thesis, for instance, on only the articles that discuss Italian matters, or matters of any other country, for what is worth. If this is "material for good discussion", you are out of your mind. As always.

Insinuating the Nazi's would have been better off wiping out the English is rather coarse, too, but thankfully it didn't happen.

No, I insinuated that the Nazis could have won the war, and we would have obtained a better result that the mess we are in, now. Of which, your beloved UK is a chief cause.
I won't bother with suggesting you to read some relevant history books, you probably would look for an equivalent TED talk, or some mockumentary you take to present "facts".

[Mischief Maker]

No, I insinuated that the Nazis could have won the war, and we would have obtained a better result that the mess we are in, now. Of which, your beloved UK is a chief cause.

Wow, dude. You really want those trains to run on time!

[BulletMagnet]

Take the personal stuff to PM, please.

[Skykid]

Take the personal stuff to PM, please.

Aw nuts. I was ready to go.

I'm sure Mr. Mensa will go sniping at some point in future, however, at subjects and people beneath his high horse.

I'd just like clarify one thing though: this "beloved UK" business - I don't know what that's all about? I can't stand the grey slab.

Anyway, back OT, this was a good post that I missed in the wash:

It's also preposterous to suggest we have any actual knowledge about how much sex the Japanese are having, this is largely speculation

I agree with this as a basic observation, but isn't a falling birth rate indicative in some way of less sex, or just greater use of contraceptives?

People who talk of "debt burdens" have no idea how floating currencies work. The debt, which is almost entirely held by the domestic population by the way, is a non-issue. If it was an issue you would see investment in Japan suffer tremendously, but contrary to that, the yen has been looked at as a safe haven for years now.

I'm quite sure that the Yen has been extraordinarily strong in recent years, harming Japanese exports because production costs aren't competitive. Sony's decade of year on year losses are largely down to their TV and electronics divisions, because they can't sell a TV as cheaply as others. If they dropped prices, there wouldn't be enough profit after factoring in costs based on the domestic currency. I believe the Yen's strength has fallen a little in the last year, something that was being worked toward for a long time, although not to a level where it's easy to keep up with Samsung and China produced equivalents.

I'm interested in the debt per capita being a 'non-issue': can you explain? I was under the impression debt held by the population was reduced through taxation. The point of the documentary is a rapidly ageing populace are claiming pensions and not paying tax: you need young workers and new businesses for that, and Japan isn't foreigner friendly when it comes to bringing in overseas workers to fill the gaps.

- As others have pointed out, population decline is taking place in much of the 1st world, why is no one writing about how Germany is doomed because of low birth rates? Should we expect that Germany's low birth rates have something to do with pandering to shut-ins etc?

Because Japan's fall in birth rates is the highest, most severe, and longest running year on year. I believe its marriage rate is proportionate too, so the discussion is of a potential social issue that may not be so prevalent in other countries - although the documentary does mention similarities beginning to take root in the west.

Anyway, good post. I'm not going to pick out stuff from each paragraph or I'll be here all day, but lots of interesting points.

[Wenchang]

I agree with this as a basic observation, but isn't a falling birth rate indicative in some way of less sex, or just greater use of contraceptives?

I think you answered your own question. But to add, if we were to assume that a falling birth rate is an indicator of lower amounts of sex, we would have to assume that sex is on a massive decline across the 1st world. This is possible, but highly, highly improbably, especially given the enormous differences in conditions across the various 1st world countries(though the availability of contraceptives isn't a particularly strong difference, which is telling).

I'm quite sure that the Yen has been extraordinarily strong in recent years, harming Japanese exports because production costs aren't competitive. Sony's decade of year on year losses are largely down to their TV and electronics divisions, because they can't sell a TV as cheaply as others. If they dropped prices, there wouldn't be enough profit after factoring in costs based on the domestic currency. I believe the Yen's strength has fallen a little in the last year, something that was being worked toward for a long time, although not to a level where it's easy to keep up with Samsung and China produced equivalents.

The strong yen has indeed hurt export oriented Japanese companies. You are right to bring up an example like Samsung, who are a Korean competitor whose lower domestic living standards has presented them with some significant advantages. Chinese companies I think overall are not as strong competitively with Japan yet, though there are some(I think overall Japan is benefitting from the rise of China moreso, as in recent years China has imported more from Japan than any other country). However, it is important not to blow these things out of proportion. Unlike much of Sony's American competitors in the 1980s for example(many of which are answers to trivia questions nowadays), or the collapse of much of U.S. manufacturing in the Midwest in the 1970s and 1980s, , while Japanese manufacturers are suffering from losses they aren't going out of business or relevance largely due to the protective nature of Japan's trade policy and the overall structure of economic life there. By the way if we want to play the game of throwing out names of big companies as examples, I could easily put Toyota out there, whose profits remain exceptional.

In any case my point wasn't to praise having a strong yen. It does hurt Japanese companies and it's a concern the Japanese government I think is well aware of(likely the main reason for the quantitative easing). I brought up the yen being viewed by investors as a safe haven as an example of how the supposed debt burden isn't an issue to investors.

Also it's in high-end producers goods where I think Japanese manufacturing's hidden strength this. Things like high end batteries, semiconductors, and the like. In this area the Koreans, Taiwanese, etc. still haven't entirely caught up with the Japanese. So we can praise Samsung for its success, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that many of the high-end components in that device(and in electronic devices in general) came from Japan(not that others don't come from S. Korea, my point isn't to underrate South Korean manufacturing which follows a similar model to Japan's), and some of those components you literally cannot get anywhere else. Producers goods are an area where the U.S. used to dominate at the height of its power in the years immediately following WW2. Today the U.S. is almost irrelevant in that area, and much of the West outside of Germany is weak in many areas, while Japan is one of the leading producers.

I'm interested in the debt per capita being a 'non-issue': can you explain? I was under the impression debt held by the population was reduced through taxation. The point of the documentary is a rapidly ageing populace are claiming pensions and not paying tax: you need young workers and new businesses for that, and Japan isn't foreigner friendly when it comes to bringing in overseas workers to fill the gaps.

You're under the impression that reducing public debt at all is necessary. It is not. In floating exchange regimes, debt is just numbers on a computer. Any time a country like the U.S. or Japan wants to borrow money the result of their actions is to insert credit into the accounts of who they are borrowing from(which is primarily domestic as I mentioned earlier), and it is often the case that this action actually increases spending power from the populace. Reducing public debts means reducing private credit. People who talk of "debt burdens" are talking about a fixed currencies like the gold standard where the value of the money is based on limited physical reserves. They should be thinking more in terms of balance of payments, as it is an accounting issue and not one of resource constraint. The actual constraints have to do with things like inflation.

Now I'm aware there are currently political forces in Japan who seem not to understand this, but just as I did above, acknowledging export problems but cautioning not to blow them out of proportion, again I'm suspicious of claims that these are going to be large scale dealings with massive long-term impacts.

The idea that more workers leads to more productivity is also an oversimplification at best, in particular in manufacturing sector where you mostly want small numbers of high-skilled workers anyway. Anyhow, aggregate demand, not taxes, are the main generator of domestic economic activity. It also follows that a smaller population means smaller amounts of services for which you need tax dollars to generate funds from. For example, if the U.S. had a smaller population for some reason, it's not as if the government would need to build as many public schools for example. So I think the point about having a smaller tax base is basically another non-issue.

I noticed this bit you posted earlier:

To put this in perspective, Japan's debt per capita is not only one of the world's highest, but higher than Greece's. Without the right amount of income tax, this will only increase rather than decrease. Abe's response is to print 7 Trillion dollars worth of currency.

The fact that Greece and Zimbabwe(lol) has lower debt than Japan more than anything should show that Japan's debt isn't a sign of anything. I mean it's incredibly ironic that Japan a year ago was pumping $60 billion into helping out the Euro, but we're supposed to believe Japan's debt is a problem. One has to wonder how that is possible.

The Eurozone features a constrained, fixed exchange currency. And even worse, Europeans in power, particularly the Germans, have been active in destroying economic activity and lending with high interest rates to Greece and other places with the stated intention to reduce debt. Which of course merely reduces economic activity and makes the governments even more incapable of paying off debt. Debt incidentally wasn't the problem with the Eurozone either, but merely a symptom of a Eurozone built on faulty foundations.

Because Japan's fall in birth rates is the highest, most severe, and longest running year on year. I believe its marriage rate is proportionate too, so the discussion is of a potential social issue that may not be so prevalent in other countries - although the documentary does mention similarities beginning to take root in the west.

Again, there are two sides to this coin. Japan's divorce rates(on a purely % of married/formerly married basis), for example are about half that of most Western nations. So what are the social conditions that lead to high divorce rates in most Western nations? In any case, marriage rates are declining worldwide. Largely because the purpose of the institution of marriage is irrelevant in most modern nations(same reason most people don't have dowries and such anymore). In any case I believe those social forces(which I actually mentioned in my previous post about Japan's history of population control) which are credited with curtailing population growth are a good thing. Again, the idea that a resource poor country which lacks arable land should desire an increasing population is absurd and dangerous.

I would again like to re-state that the assumption that declining population leads to a declining economy is a claim for which there is zero evidence. There is a much greater correlation between population growth and poverty(and this applies even to poor countries, as the nation with the 2nd highest economic growth rates in the world is Mongolia with its tiny population).

I should also add that if the people writing these stories were serious in believing in the need for more workers to keep the economy afloat, they might also observe that Japan's population is actually significantly larger than many European nations(amazing that this point is also ignored), in which case, it is absolute accurate to suggest countries like Germany for example which already has a much smaller population are in at least as much of a demographic crisis. That's if you believe in the assumption. Obviously I don't.

I realize that my posts may make it sound like I think everything is rosy in Japan. It obviously is not, and in many ways Japan has stagnated over the years. However, the picture of Japan in the West is highly misleading(and also highly self-serving when it comes to economic matters, as the usual solution is "be more like us"), and, if you actually look carefully, you will find Japan is doing better in many domains than the Western counterparts from which these stories originate.

[greg]

I actually watched the entire documentary and I thought that it was pretty interesting. I doubt that the otaku culture is the root cause for the declining birth rate but it may be a side-effect of something else that's related to it.

It really isn't. The cost of actually raising a child is probably the biggest problem facing couples in Japan. Celibate dorks who'd rather wank off and substitute playing Tokimemo-style dating games with relationships with real girls is not the culprit. There are plenty of dorks in America who can't get girls either. Japanese otaku are just making excuses for not getting laid.

However, these otaku are a rather unique specimen, and hey, so many people like anime these days, so it makes sensational "journalism" to capitalize on this phenomenon and make it into a bigger deal than it really is. Skykid can't stand anime dorks, so of course he's attracted to "documentaries" like this. (I'm actually watching it right now, to be fair.)

The arranged marriage system had kept Japan going for centuries. Now that youth want to have their freedom and reject their parents meddling with their futures, the problem is that typical Japanese guys never figured out how to be nice to women and pretend to be romantic. A few weeks ago, I saw one of the so-called "cool boys" after school. This twerpy punkass always has his uniform open, exposing some T-shirt that looks like he stole it from his older sister, has a pierced ear and a fancy hairdo that sticks up. He had an empty PET bottle in his hand and was bonking a girl on the top of her head. She was wearing a high school uniform, and that dick is a 3rd grade junior high kid. The fact that she would put up with that asshole hitting her on the top of her head with a plastic bottle speaks volumes to how fucked up the priorities and expectations Japanese boys and girls have towards each other.

You know, Skykid, I am not sure if I will finish watching this. I'm nearly 10 minutes in and this is rubbish. "No sex, please" has nothing to do with how that Ibari town is becoming a ghost town. It's a rural mining town and the mine's closed down. The reason why the schools have closed doors is because it's become a ghost town with no job opportunities.

Oh here we go, talking about Love Plus at 14 minutes into it. Love Plus isn't drying up rural towns. The lack of work is. Look, Japanese guys are pretty pathetic. Otaku guys are just more pathetic. If even the seemingly swave guys who the girls think are attractive can only flirt with girls by hitting them on the head with a PET bottle, then Japan is in deep trouble. That asshole will probably little trouble finding idiot girls to put out for him. That will lead to pregnancy eventually. That's a whole other problem of its own.

And here we are, 20 minutes into this video, and she's still going on and on about otaku as if they're the real problem with Japan. This video is stupid. As one of the commenters on that video said, if only countries like India could have a declining birth rate!

[Randorama]

Wow, dude. You really want those trains to run on time!

...they may not have sex, but they can achieve this in the land of Japan!
Why BBC does not cover that?

[Xyga]

China's about to ease birth limit policy, but will this stop men from going to massage parlors and shady KTVs ?
Certainly not.
I can imagine the market opportunities for all the baby stuff, but if the governement wishes to see the birth rate actually increase they'll have to help motivate couples to actually do it together and without contraception.
And kill the idea only boys are good as well.

Now I've seen the chinese change centuries-old habits in a matter of months, but I'm having a hard time picturing them changing this.

[Skykid]

That asshole will probably little trouble finding idiot girls to put out for him.

Ha ha, I think that guy's married!

Seriously, it's not a highbrow documentary, the BBC turn out this tin-canned shit on a conveyor belt in recent years. I just thought a programme about gaming nerds would be mildly interesting to a forum full of gaming nerds. I'm glad we're talking about it though.

post

First, I should say thanks much for taking the time to respond in such detail. Really interesting stuff.

Japanese manufacturers are suffering from losses they aren't going out of business or relevance largely due to the protective nature of Japan's trade policy and the overall structure of economic life there.

I don't know much about Japan's economic structure to protect big business. Usually Gaijinpunch tends to paint a narrow view of the ineptness of business practices in Japan, although that tends to be at an admin level rather than government. To add to your own argument of the economic issue being overblown, I suppose we can again go back to Sony who are still chugging away despite a decade of severe losses - I honestly don't know the legal way they manage to stay afloat without closing any their loss-making sectors.

Also it's in high-end producers goods where I think Japanese manufacturing's hidden strength this. Things like high end batteries, semiconductors, and the like.

In this area the Koreans, Taiwanese, etc. still haven't entirely caught up with the Japanese. So we can praise Samsung for its success, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that many of the high-end components in that device(and in electronic devices in general) came from Japan

I was under the impression Japanese production of electronic goods was largely outsourced (or based in) China these days?

You're under the impression that reducing public debt at all is necessary. It is not. In floating exchange regimes, debt is just numbers on a computer. Any time a country like the U.S. or Japan wants to borrow money the result of their actions is to insert credit into the accounts of who they are borrowing from(which is primarily domestic as I mentioned earlier), and it is often the case that this action actually increases spending power from the populace. Reducing public debts means reducing private credit. People who talk of "debt burdens" are talking about a fixed currencies like the gold standard where the value of the money is based on limited physical reserves. They should be thinking more in terms of balance of payments, as it is an accounting issue and not one of resource constraint. The actual constraints have to do with things like inflation.

Now I'm aware there are currently political forces in Japan who seem not to understand this

Well no, clearly they don't since they're working to reduce public debt by way of enormous fiscal injections!

From Wiki:

"On June 30, 2013 for the first time Japan public debt was little over Yen1,000 trillion ($10.46 trillion) or about twice of its annual gross domestic product.

Former Prime Minister Naoto Kan has called the situation "urgent".
In August 2011, Moody's rating cut Japan's long-term sovereign debt rating by one notch to Aa3 from Aa2 inline with the size of the country's deficit and borrowing level. The large budget deficits and government debt since the 2009 global recession and followed by earthquake and tsunami in March 2011 made the rating downgrade. In 2012 the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) Yearbook editorial (Gurría 2012) stated that Japan's debt "rose above 200% of GDP partly as a consequence of the tragic earthquake and the related reconstruction efforts.
Policy response
In order to address the Japanese budget gap and growing national debt, in June 2012 the Japanese National Diet passed a bill to double the national consumption tax to 10%. The new bill increases the tax to 8% by April 2014 and 10% by October 2015."

I thought public debt partly affected the country's credit appraisal? Not that any of that would affect Japan's ability to borrow, currently, but I did indeed think having the world's highest public debt presented some kind of long term issue if it does, as you said, manifest as private credit, which would lead to higher default rates etc.

The fact that Greece and Zimbabwe(lol) has lower debt than Japan more than anything should show that Japan's debt isn't a sign of anything. I mean it's incredibly ironic that Japan a year ago was pumping $60 billion into helping out the Euro, but we're supposed to believe Japan's debt is a problem. One has to wonder how that is possible.

This is true!

Again, the idea that a resource poor country which lacks arable land should desire an increasing population is absurd and dangerous.

Okay, I have all this, and your scholarly economic lesson is incredibly enlightening, but there's one thing I can't quite fathom: does Japan, like any nation, not require taxpayers?

It may not require an increasing population, but I'm sure it doesn't require an increasingly ageing population? If the balance tips toward having a vast proportion of the population in retirement or unable to take up labour based jobs or even produce new businesses, doesn't that strain government funds to the point where they're forced to keep borrowing as opposed to working on reducing national debt?

[Randorama]

Okay, I have all this, and your scholarly economic lesson is incredibly enlightening, but there's one thing I can't quite fathom: does Japan, like any nation, not require taxpayers?

It may not require an increasing population, but I'm sure it doesn't require an increasingly ageing population? If the balance tips toward having a vast proportion of the population in retirement or unable to take up labour based jobs or even produce new businesses, doesn't that strain government funds to the point where they're forced to keep borrowing as opposed to working on reducing national debt?

...But then the problem would be NEETs, rather than specifically Otakus. The two populations do not coincide, as far as I know. Furthermore, NEETs are a global first world problem, for an endless list of reasons. One key factor is that, say, the EU block is trying to solve this problem by increasing immigrants, and offering more generous welfare support for parents (well, some countries). Japan clearly has a problem with immigration, as they still have basically xenophobic policies on immigrants. I am pretty sure that rancor posted has several links on reading material regarding this matter.

Once more: blaming Otakus for the fall of Japanese civilization is so much of a stretch that it is actually offensive (then again, it's BBC, who can take them seriously...?). Among other things, I can't think of a single prime minister that addressed the public debt problem at atll, in Japan...and in most first world countries, for that matter.

I agree that blaming the ultra-marginalized in some other place helps to escape the task of facing real problems at home, though. Maybe that was the true intent of the video.

[drauch]

Let's go back to more picks of GP on the beach.

[Jonst]

As cool as gp's pics on the beach are,I was so disappointed he didn't look anything like frank oz...sigh...

[Skykid]

Okay, I have all this, and your scholarly economic lesson is incredibly enlightening, but there's one thing I can't quite fathom: does Japan, like any nation, not require taxpayers?

It may not require an increasing population, but I'm sure it doesn't require an increasingly ageing population? If the balance tips toward having a vast proportion of the population in retirement or unable to take up labour based jobs or even produce new businesses, doesn't that strain government funds to the point where they're forced to keep borrowing as opposed to working on reducing national debt?

...But then the problem would be NEETs, rather than specifically Otakus. The two populations do not coincide, as far as I know. Furthermore, NEETs are a global first world problem, for an endless list of reasons. One key factor is that, say, the EU block is trying to solve this problem by increasing immigrants, and offering more generous welfare support for parents (well, some countries). Japan clearly has a problem with immigration, as they still have basically xenophobic policies on immigrants. I am pretty sure that rancor posted has several links on reading material regarding this matter.

Once more: blaming Otakus for the fall of Japanese civilization is so much of a stretch that it is actually offensive (then again, it's BBC, who can take them seriously...?). Among other things, I can't think of a single prime minister that addressed the public debt problem at atll, in Japan...and in most first world countries, for that matter.

I agree that blaming the ultra-marginalized in some other place helps to escape the task of facing real problems at home, though. Maybe that was the true intent of the video.

Appropriately, considering your current anti-British flagpole, NEET was an acronym coined in the UK. That said, while it applies completely to the UK, where people are increasingly both braindead and lazy, I can't see the same kind of lack of initiative or education being so widespread in Japan. It's not a country known for juvenile delinquency in great numbers or benefit hounds. First world countries becoming increasingly moronic as a rule, however, is something I can get behind.

I feel widespread commercialism is to blame, which inadvertently cycles back around to Otaku, who feed on a specific arm of media.

[Randorama]

Appropriately, considering your current anti-British flagpole

Sorry, but: my well-established anti-"Outer Church" position. I'd clarify, since I didn't, that I loathe the endless sequences of people in charge in the UK and USA (say, the Tories and the monarchy, the "City" conglomerate). I am not exactly fond of the masses, either, but I tend to blame the biggest shots.

NEET was an acronym coined in the UK. That said, while it applies completely to the UK, where people are increasingly both braindead and lazy, I can't see the same kind of lack of initiative or education being so widespread in Japan. It's not a country known for juvenile delinquency in great numbers or benefit hounds. First world countries becoming increasingly moronic as a rule, however, is something I can get behind.

The numbers would tell you a different story. I can't find it, but there should be an article showing that Japan is the land of DINK (Double Income No Kids), since virtually 40% of married couple have realized that they can spend more money on luxury items, more free time for themselves, etc. if they don't reproduce. This is another global phenomenon, even in countries were welfare is generous (here in Sweden, for instance).

Dictatorships an religions had a fairly simple system to avoid this problem: they told people to breed, or else. Democracies can't officially use this trick, so without incentives and by turning any parenthood choice into a martydom...the results can't be good.

I feel widespread commercialism is to blame, which inadvertently cycles back around to Otaku, who feed on a specific arm of media.

Once more: Otakus are, I don't know, the 0,001% of the population. That's statistically irrelevant, so I can't see how you can possibly blame them, at least not on solid empirical grounds. Besides, have you reproduced, yet? If not, you're guilty as they are. I haven't, I won't unless I get tenure and a clean planet, and won't feel guilty for it.

And I do have sex, even (also with the wife!).

[quash]

I realize that my posts may make it sound like I think everything is rosy in Japan. It obviously is not, and in many ways Japan has stagnated over the years. However, the picture of Japan in the West is highly misleading(and also highly self-serving when it comes to economic matters, as the usual solution is "be more like us"), and, if you actually look carefully, you will find Japan is doing better in many domains than the Western counterparts from which these stories originate.

No shit. The more I learn about this country, the more it seems like the people here are deathly afraid of changing anything. And why shouldn't they be? They boast one of the best public infrastructures in the world and one of the strongest private sectors, as well. The only reason they've taken a step back from nuclear energy is because of the public hysteria in the fallout of Fukushima; and even then, we're already seeing reactors coming back online.

I agree with most of what you've posted here; it's refreshing to see a perspective on Japan as worldly as yours. Most Japanese seem to think their country is stagnating itself into irrelevance, and the Western narrative of Japan is fairly dated, if not downright ignorant.

From my (still rather limited) perspective, Japan is still in good shape overall. Among the few problems I see are:

- Militarization. If you ask me, this has the potential to be Japan's downfall. They have a good thing going with China and South Korea in regards to trade, and like you said, the rhetoric is just that. Japan has nothing to gain from a war with China; if anything, this quabble over the Senkaku is going to be the continued status quo until China decides they don't care anymore. By then, China will have a middle class larger than they know what to do with, and Japan will be reaping the benefits of China's growth. So why is Abe hellbent on reinstating a standing peacetime military? It seems counterproductive and I would hope many Japanese are able to see through the rhetoric.

- Energy. If the political pressure proves to be too much, and Japan does indeed permanently reduce their nuclear output, that would increase the price of energy like no tomorrow. No matter how they decide to make up that lost ground, it wouldn't come cheap, and it would likely increase the cost of goods, too.

- Tokyo. Specifically, that it's now roughly 1/3rd of the country's population. Tokyo certainly has the infrastructure to support this kind of population, but where does that leave the rest of Japan? I don't see an easy solution to this, as there isn't much keeping people in rural Japan right now.

In spite of those things, I may see myself coming back here once I'm done with the military. I could definitely do a few years as an exchange student here.

[drauch]

This is starting to get weasels.

[BulletMagnet]

I thought public debt partly affected the country's credit appraisal? Not that any of that would affect Japan's ability to borrow, currently, but I did indeed think having the world's highest public debt presented some kind of long term issue if it does, as you said, manifest as private credit, which would lead to higher default rates etc.

Speaking as a decided non-expert on this issue, and coming from a U.S. perspective (not sure how much our situation can be compared to Japan's), the general gist I tend to get from reading about the debt-reduction issue is that yes, it is something that will cause problems if not dealt with at some point, but that it isn't the "oh my god start cutting everything (for poor people) nownowNOW or else everything is doomed" issue that some sectors like to say it is ("deficit hawks" have been insisting that runaway inflation is right around the corner since roughly the moment Bush left office, and it's nowhere in sight), especially not to the point that it should dictate government spending (or lack thereof) in the midst of a recession. As Wenchang wrote, though "conventional wisdom" dictates that China basically owns us now, the truth is that the majority of our debt is money we owe to ourselves.

[Randorama]

As Wenchang wrote, though "conventional wisdom" dictates that China basically owns us now, the truth is that the majority of our debt is money we owe to ourselves.

If I understand it correctly, 90% of the current "public debt" is part of a thick network of hedge funds and derivatives that have accumulated over the decades. We are supposed to give back money that somebody (the banks, for instance) wants back, because they agreed (without our consent) to have ever-growing interest rates, or to "insure" that if they would fuck up their speculations, we would give back the money they fucked up in this high-stakes gambling level.

I don't know if the otakus are to blame (I'd nuke the city in London and Wall Street in New York, instead), but I'd say that the simplest solution would be to just reset everything, a bit like in Kaiba's finale. Then again, the giant system of controlled slavery we live in would crumble, and the ones in power would not like that, I guess.


Whether Japan is doing better than Western counterparts, though, is an issue of debate (Weichang's point). "The West" is not a monolithic entity as some of you seem to believe (being anglo-centric, I guess). Surprisingly enough, some western countries are doing very fine (say, Denmark, Canada, Oz and NZ to a good extent,...). So, the kind of disgusting self-serving propaganda that the BBC (and the economist, for instance) dish is really a distractor for the local masses. This is hardly news, since it is a trend that started in the Victorian age.

Aside this, a more basic question I have is: even if people don't fuck, what's the big deal? It's not like sex (and breeding) is the engine of civilization. Actually, how on Earth can someone be so naive to believe this?

































I am off to an orgy anyway, so you guys have fun.

[Xyga]

The world's total riches have doubled since 2008 but about 1/3 are hidden in tax havens.

All the crap about debt is pretty much ideological control on the masses to make us accept the disappearance of the comfortable middle classes and overall empoverishment of society.

I see this whole crisis as a hold-up, a large scale robbery on the middle and lower classes schemed by the upper and hyper classes, just for them to be able to suck-up more of everything, become richer than rich, and once-and-for-all show that the finance and corporation world has more power than the People and the State.

I'm no commie, no intention to 'steal' from the rich, but would everyone including the rich just pay reasonable taxes there would be more than enough for everyone on this f* planet.

Also this is so off-topic it's not even funny.