Milestone hate?

[qmish]

MLP

The only thing that reminds me MLP is Undertale and it's fandom. In many many aspects.

[d0s]

I think Radirgy is visually hideous.... reeks of amateurish fail on that end. No amount of glow sticks, blue hair, "drum & bass" or bagging pants can save it.

Those 3 pics above perfectly illustrate this in my eyes..... cheap photo's with minimal photo-shopping that a 5 year old could do.

They (or Radirgy in general) remind me of those crappy MLP fan art pics you see splattered all over the place on facebook. The kind that winds up being turned into a shitty meme.

neeeeerd

MLP

The only thing that reminds me MLP is Undertale and it's fandom. In many many aspects.

homestuck too

[Strider77]

The hate is real...

[NTSC-J]

I think Radirgy is visually hideous.... reeks of amateurish fail on that end. No amount of glow sticks, blue hair, "drum & bass" or bagging pants can save it.

Those 3 pics above perfectly illustrate this in my eyes..... cheap photo's with minimal photo-shopping that a 5 year old could do.

They (or Radirgy in general) remind me of those crappy MLP fan art pics you see splattered all over the place on facebook. The kind that winds up being turned into a shitty meme.

I was going to post the same. Those three images are just awful, particularly that third one. I checked on google first to make sure it really wasn't just fan art but apparently that image is in the game? It looks like something you'd find on deviantart and has that look that novice manga drawings always have where everything is very flat (usually the eyes suffer from this the most).

[d0s]

The hate is real...

You're the one hating here man

I was going to post the same. Those three images are just awful, particularly that third one. I checked on google first to make sure it really wasn't just fan art but apparently that image is in the game? It looks like something you'd find on deviantart and has that look that novice manga drawings always have where everything is very flat (usually the eyes suffer from this the most).

If you'd actually played the game you'd know these images appear in a subliminal "split second" style semi-randomly at the end of each stage, there must be a hundred of them and they're not exactly a major part of the game. Why would such a tiny studio spend a huge amount of effort & money on things that are meant to be viewed for a fraction of a second?

e: I actually like how love/hate these games are, it's like they made their games for a small group of people who would appreciate it and if you're not feeling it the game feels like a big "fuck you" and you're repulsed by it. Check out how seriously passionate the people who both like and dislike the games are, on the same page you have these wildly polarized opinions about it. Their games past chaos field don't look or play like anything else in the genre before or since, and these are commercial arcade games, not indie games or doujins made in someone's bedroom. To me they represent part of the last gasp of experimentation and artistic creativity in commercial games (dreamcast/naomi days) that may be gone for good thanks to the rigid, autismal demands of otaku and hardcore gamers. Don't worry guys, the future's gonna be exactly what you asked for

[Strikers1945guy]

I was going to post the same. Those three images are just awful, particularly that third one. I checked on google first to make sure it really wasn't just fan art but apparently that image is in the game? It looks like something you'd find on deviantart and has that look that novice manga drawings always have where everything is very flat (usually the eyes suffer from this the most).

If you'd actually played the game you'd know these images appear in a subliminal "split second" style semi-randomly at the end of each stage, there must be a hundred of them and they're not exactly a major part of the game. Why would such a tiny studio spend a huge amount of effort & money on things that are meant to be viewed for a fraction of a second?

Thats true it wouldn't make sense for them to do that so maybe then they should have just skipped that stuff all together. It looks pretty hideous to me, but we aren't allowed to not like something based on looks anymore so I guess it's a great game.

[d0s]

Thats true it wouldn't make sense for them to do that so maybe then they should have just skipped that stuff all together. It looks pretty hideous to me, but we aren't allowed to not like something based on looks anymore so I guess it's a great game.

You don't see all the tiny imperfections you're noticing in the images when you only see them for half a second, it's actually a really cool effect imo. Personally I'm glad they left them in, it's part of what makes the games unique to me. You're allowed to dislike something for whatever reason you want, don't lump me in with the people telling you otherwise.

e: Do you really think that if someone has a creative idea but not the resources to execute it 100% flawlessly that it just shouldn't be done, even if it means compromising their vision? Serious question, no trolling or anything implied. I'd like to have a real convo about this if you would.

[Strikers1945guy]

e: Do you really think that if someone has a creative idea but not the resources to execute it 100% flawlessly that it just shouldn't be done, even if it means compromising their vision? Serious question, no trolling or anything implied. I'd like to have a real convo about this if you would.

Hard question to answer. I guess absolutely a creator should still try to develop or create their vision as best they can, to their financial ability, even if it means sacrificing some of what they envisioned in the process. When I say I dont like something I dont mean to say its objectively bad, because who am I to judge that? For me it does nothing, so I cast it aside. Others may find beauty or entertainment in it and thats awesome I dont want us all to be the same. Sometimes, as with these particular images, I almost see where they are coming from. I like parts of them (the scenic backgrounds) but other stuff like the tranny with blue hair ruins the entire thing for me.

It would be sad for anyone with talent to never try because they dont have the means to see their creation all the way through, or the financial help to do all of it to the full extent of the jam. I feel like though even if milestone had unlimited financial help, or moss making raiden V, or anyone we still know how the games would feel or look, so we can make some educated guesses that it would be the same game just with more fancy cut scenes and stuff. Which means for me they still would do nothing for me.

They are creative and their music and art style definitely make them stand apart, and I guess thats a good thing.

[d0s]

I feel like though even if milestone had unlimited financial help, or moss making raiden V, or anyone we still know how the games would feel or look, so we can make some educated guesses that it would be the same game just with more fancy cut scenes and stuff. Which means for me they still would do nothing for me.

Yeah I don't disagree here at all, I don't think that if they had a better budget people who didn't like their style before would suddenly like them. But some of the criticism (not by you) for the images posted was about how the photoshopping was bad, or the anime wasn't drawn well enough and stuff like that, so I wonder if those people would suddenly like the game if those images were technically perfect but artistically in the same style. I know your answer, you don't like the games on a fundamental level and nothing's going to change that (and that's ok!) but I wonder how Strider and NTSC-J would feel if the imperfections with the subliminal images were suddenly fixed. Would you suddenly like the game, or is there something more fundamental about it you don't like?

[qmish]

make them stand apart

That's why i call them leftfield of arcade/console shmups.

[Strikers1945guy]

I feel like though even if milestone had unlimited financial help, or moss making raiden V, or anyone we still know how the games would feel or look, so we can make some educated guesses that it would be the same game just with more fancy cut scenes and stuff. Which means for me they still would do nothing for me.

Yeah I don't disagree here at all, I don't think that if they had a better budget people who didn't like their style before would suddenly like them. But some of the criticism (not by you) for the images posted was about how the photoshopping was bad, or the anime wasn't drawn well enough and stuff like that, so I wonder if those people would suddenly like the game if those images were technically perfect but artistically in the same style. I know your answer, you don't like the games on a fundamental level and nothing's going to change that (and that's ok!) but I wonder how Strider and NTSC-J would feel if the imperfections with the subliminal images were suddenly fixed. Would you suddenly like the game, or is there something more fundamental about it you don't like?

I get you. I actually like the images in question minus the blue haired person. They feel very... scenic or kind of, beauty in hidden places. I know they are just short between stages cut scene images but nice none the less.

All of this recent milestone hate (some obviously coming from me) has made me replay some of their games and revisit a lot of it and I'm finding things I do like in them. Stuff like this being one of them. Some of the art style and music is quite good. Still not sold on the game play and scoring systems but that wont change. Radirgy is still my favorite Milestone game if I had to pick and I feel I should really play the sequel now.

I will always stand by my opinion that Chaos Field is just plain bad in almost every way possible.

[NTSC-J]

I was going to post the same. Those three images are just awful, particularly that third one. I checked on google first to make sure it really wasn't just fan art but apparently that image is in the game? It looks like something you'd find on deviantart and has that look that novice manga drawings always have where everything is very flat (usually the eyes suffer from this the most).

If you'd actually played the game you'd know these images appear in a subliminal "split second" style semi-randomly at the end of each stage

I played it once ten years ago and didn't care for it, but my comment was just about the look of the game. Forgive me for not committing each of these lovely images to memory.

there must be a hundred of them and they're not exactly a major part of the game. Why would such a tiny studio spend a huge amount of effort & money on things that are meant to be viewed for a fraction of a second?

ESPrade does the same thing and those are mostly pretty good. At any rate, these images were posted to show off the awesome style of the game and I think they look ugly. The fact that there are so many of them and they didn't have much time or money or the ability to do better doesn't make them look any better to me.

I should stress that I have no comment about how the game plays since it was so long ago that I played it. I'm just commenting on the aesthetics.

[KAI]

Oh yeah, Radirgy's eyecatches are awful, cheap and poorly shopped

[Strider77]

You're the one hating here man

Ya think? 

Oh yeah, Radirgy's eyecatches are awful, cheap and poorly shopped

Yeah... more good examples.

[M.Knight]

The eyecatches may not be glorious pieces of art, but I like the concept of randomly selected split-second loading screens. I don't think any other shmups do that, as the ESP series' eyecatches are AFAIK not random. Here, you rarely have the exact same screens twice in a row.
It is a part of the Milestone identity and as a result is a bit quirky, so that's probably not what is going to change non-fans' opinion on the games.

[ciox]

The eyecatches may not be glorious pieces of art, but I like the concept of randomly selected split-second loading screens. I don't think any other shmups do that, as the ESP series' eyecatches are AFAIK not random. Here, you rarely have the exact same screens twice in a row.
It is a part of the Milestone identity and as a result is a bit quirky, so that's probably not what is going to change non-fans' opinion on the games.

Sanvein has 'em, even show you cut content from the game, see here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43003
I have seen the loading screens in random order in Esprade, they might be tied to stages but stages are partially random without the button trick so their appearance is still kind of random even in that case.

[Shepardus]

Deathsmiles does that too, I can't remember if they're random though.

[BIL]

OT, I love Sanvein's raw, kinetic yet chilly technosthetic. Kind of a Garage EP Psyvariar 0.

To escape from our utopia...

Wish it handled a bit tighter, but it's cool (and cheep!) enough for me to keep around.

[AxelMill]

Huh, I didn't know Sanvein was made by Milestone.
Relatively fun game, though the "stage clear" theme playing every five seconds pissed me off a lot. I want to listen to the actual stage music, damn it.

[BulletMagnet]

Huh, I didn't know Sanvein was made by Milestone.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't, I believe Success did that one.

[qmish]

I thought Sanvein was by Psyvariar devs

[BIL]

Sanvein is indeed by Success, thats why I put OT aka Off Topic ;3

Relatively fun game, though the "stage clear" theme playing every five seconds pissed me off a lot. I want to listen to the actual stage music, damn it.

Bahaha, this is exactly the sort of thing I like about it. I love music, film, games etc that combine velocity and angular, abrupt stop/starts. map->fight->ALL DEAD->map->boss->BOSS DEAD->map etc, all with the clock hammering down. Cute game.

[qmish]

Sorry, but usually OT sounded like OT which means "Official Thread" and i thought you meant OP which is Opening Poster

[AxelMill]

Sanvein is indeed by Success, thats why I put OT aka Off Topic ;3

Relatively fun game, though the "stage clear" theme playing every five seconds pissed me off a lot. I want to listen to the actual stage music, damn it.

Bahaha, this is the sort of thing I like about it. I love music, film, games etc that combine velocity and angular, abrupt stop/starts. map->fight->ALL DEAD->map->boss->BOSS DEAD->map etc, all with the clock hammering down. Cute game.

Yay me for not reading those two important letters.

You can do that even without wasting all the hard work your composer did. It's even good!

[BIL]

Of course, WASi303 and friends ownz. ;3

[M.Knight]

Interesting refrences you got here. I briefly heard of Sanvein before, but completely forgot about it before having a chance to try it out.
It looks very stylish and fast-paced!