Racism common in London?

[burgerkingdiamond]

Chris Rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4

I've seen that before. Funny funny shit.

[O. Van Bruce]

I myself, am an inmigrant, but I still have problems with muslims and african inmigrants here in Barcelona... sometimes.

The trick would be that everyone has enough wealth to live confortably and the interaction will do the rest of the integration. The problem is that poverty makes people less empathetic about other races while they look for help using their race as a plus (eg: while looking for jobs). As they may find more jobs that the locals due to accepting less money for the job and/or getting jobs from people from the same nationality (here you will NEVER see a non-chinese working in a chinese bussines).... well... the locals tend to be jelous of that.

If you want your "white superiority" back... then just copy the good customs of the inmigrants, but the white "master race" is so short-sighted that they'll never do that and in some generations those inmigrants will run the country. Not that they are doing anything bad.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I myself, am an inmigrant, but I still have problems with muslims and african inmigrants here in Barcelona... sometimes.

The trick would be that everyone has enough wealth to live confortably and the interaction will do the rest of the integration. The problem is that poverty makes people less empathetic about other races while they look for help using their race as a plus (eg: while looking for jobs). As they may find more jobs that the locals due to accepting less money for the job and/or getting jobs from people from the same nationality (here you will NEVER see a non-chinese working in a chinese bussines).... well... the locals tend to be jelous of that.

If you want your "white superiority" back... then just copy the good customs of the inmigrants, but the white "master race" is so short-sighted that they'll never do that and in some generations those inmigrants will run the country. Not that they are doing anything bad.

who said I want white superiority? If there was a major influx of middle easterns, or whites or blacks or whatever into China would they tolerate it? People don't like it when others come and try to inject their language, culture and customs into their home. You can be proud of your culture and nationality without automatically jumping to the conclusion that your are the rightful master race.

http://www.metro.co.uk/showbiz/77494-mo ... ntity-lost

[louisg]

This is ridiculous. A country's culture is not static, it changes radically from generation to generation, and it's always been multicultural in ways you don't necessarily recognize. So to say that somehow your culture is being diluted by immigrants is asinine, clueless and/or hypocritical. And learning another language is good for you, not that you'll ever have to

[burgerkingdiamond]

This is ridiculous. A country's culture is not static, it changes radically from generation to generation, and it's always been multicultural in ways you don't necessarily recognize. So to say that somehow your culture is being diluted by immigrants is asinine, clueless and/or hypocritical. And learning another language is good for you, not that you'll ever have to

I disagree (not about the language part though).

why do people emigrate to another country? Isn't it because there is a lack of opportunity in their homeland and they're looking for something better? If so, then don't you think it's arrogant to reap the rewards of a superior country without assimilating into it's culture?

Would you go to a friend's house, head to the kitchen make a sandwich, proceed to bathroom to take a shit, and then lay down in their bed for a nap without even the courtesy to take your shoes off at the door so you don't track mud all over the carpet?

EDIT: Although I do think this argument is a good one, I just realized the irony of it since there are so many things about American culture today that I despise and don't think are worth assimilating to. You only have to watch 5 minutes of TV to get what I mean. I haven't had cable in over a year, but I watched some TV at my mom's the other day and it was pathetic.

[louisg]

This is ridiculous. A country's culture is not static, it changes radically from generation to generation, and it's always been multicultural in ways you don't necessarily recognize. So to say that somehow your culture is being diluted by immigrants is asinine, clueless and/or hypocritical. And learning another language is good for you, not that you'll ever have to

I disagree (not about the language part though).

why do people emigrate to another country? Isn't it because there is a lack of opportunity in their homeland and they're looking for something better? If so, then don't you think it's arrogant to reap the rewards of a superior country without assimilating into it's culture?

Would you go to a friend's house, head to the kitchen make a sandwich, proceed to bathroom to take a shit, and then lay down in their bed for a nap without even the courtesy to take your shoes off at the door so you don't track mud all over the carpet?

People emigrate for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it's economic, sometimes there are other reasons. By claiming one country is all-around "superior" is in itself arrogant-- superior in what way? Economically? Culturally? Better values? Who knows. Is there nothing about the person's country of origin which is of value? That's probably not the case. I generally take the stance that we can all learn *something* from each other, and come to understand each other even if we have different approaches.

No, there is nothing arrogant about retaining your own culture- at least to some degree- after you move. What IS arrogant is trying to force people to conform while stating that your one way of behavior is clearly the best (when a lot of it is, in fact, subjective). It also seems telling to me that nobody seems to ever have a problem with multiculturalism until non-whites get involved. Then it's the end of the world.

Anyway, your culture is part of your identity, and I think honestly this is something most people probably cannot understand as they represent the mainstream, and it's pointless to argue. Either you get it, or you don't. And yes, if you don't care for a lot of American culture and you're American, then it is ironic since you're probably representing a distinct subculture yourself which may be disapproved of by more mainstream people who probably would prefer it if you conformed a little more.

I have no clue what the second paragraph of your post is supposed to mean.

[GaijinPunch]

PLEASE HIT EARTH 2012 DA14

edit:

This is an immigration problem. If you live in London and you sit in a underground tube carriage and your the only white person on it, I think you would raise an eyebrow.

I know what you mean. I find myself to be the only whitey on the train all the time, and it is unsettling.

GP, do you have a twitter? If not, please make one.

I do. My main one I don't update. There's another one I have made but have only tweeted about 4 things. I wanted to see if it would gain traction by *not* revealing my identity.

why do people emigrate to another country? Isn't it because there is a lack of opportunity in their homeland and they're looking for something better? If so, then don't you think it's arrogant to reap the rewards of a superior country without assimilating into it's culture?

I stated this earlier in the thread. I'm a fucking immigrant as well. While I never try to revolutionize anyone in Japan (I did try to get my students to 'teach themselves' when I taught English, which is a hugely foreign concept here), I will actively criticize it for things that should be criticized. These things are ample. I am fair though, and bitch just as much about America, and probably would more if I lived there. You shouldn't just accept all things as they are. If you live some where, you pay taxes there, that earns you the right to have at least some say. For the record, anything I'm negative about and say it should be done "like back in my home country" is simply coincidental.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I think you probably at least have an idea of what I meant, although you may not agree with it, and my analogy is not perfect.

I don't think any country is absolutely superior, but there must be something better about it to make someone want to leave their homeland. In my edit I acknowledged that there is alot about America for instance that I don't like at all.

And of course I don't think that immigrants should abandon all of their culture. My girlfriend moved here from Vietnam with her whole family when she was 13 and I think it's great. I love going to her parent's house (they don't speak very good English) and being around that whole thing. I of course understand that it's a lot harder to pick up a language after a certain age.

I do believe that there is a tipping point where the # of immigrants will become too high and it will begin to displace the original population. You can have your own opinion of whether that's a bad thing or not. Something must be going on in England because I seem keep hearing the issue come up in various places. Plus it's probably has to do some with the general state of unhappiness and fear due to the fucked economy and such that is causing people to lash out, and foreigners are an easy target.

Something that I think would go a long way towards easing immigration issues is the banning of private religious schools. I get that a country's culture is not static, but if everyone goes to school together doesn't that mean that there is a greater chance of citizens at least changing in the same direction? I've heard that in England there are a lot of these religious schools for Muslims, Jews, and Christians and it's pretty obvious that secluding kids from their neighbors and teaching them that everyone who isn't part of their particular religion is different is not a good thing. Make everyone go to school together and keep religion private (or better yet just grow a brain and stop believing in fairy tales altogether).

I usually do not get into these long pointless debates so I'm just going to end it here.

[xbl0x180]

Chris Rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4

I've seen that before. Funny funny shit.

When I used to hear this type of criticism in Latin America (aimed at other latinos), it was just a criticism of good-for-nothing criminals, lazy miscreants, and those who are generally stupid. Here in the U.S., you get called a "racist" for it

[louisg]

Something that I think would go a long way towards easing immigration issues is the banning of private religious schools

Are those home-grown American values I hear? Living in a free country can be a bitch

There are a lot of religious schools here BTW-- lots of Catholic schools, some Jewish schools, etc. I do agree with you that ideally everyone should grow up knowing people of different faiths and races. All you have to do to see why is look at how people behave in a suburb Unfortunately, it's also up to choice. If someone's folks want to send them to a whackjob Christian fundamentalist day camp that teaches them that gays are evil and that I killed Jesus, then they're totally within their rights to do so. Same for anyone of any other faith. I'm not stoked about it, but it's part of our core values as a nation to allow our citizens that choice.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Something that I think would go a long way towards easing immigration issues is the banning of private religious schools

Are those home-grown American values I hear? Living in a free country can be a bitch

There are a lot of religious schools here BTW-- lots of Catholic schools, some Jewish schools, etc. I do agree with you that ideally everyone should grow up knowing people of different faiths and races. All you have to do to see why is look at how people behave in a suburb Unfortunately, it's also up to choice. If someone's folks want to send them to a whackjob Christian fundamentalist day camp that teaches them that gays are evil and that I killed Jesus, then they're totally within their rights to do so. Same for anyone of any other faith. I'm not stoked about it, but it's part of our core values as a nation to allow our citizens that choice.

too bad the kids don't have much choice in the matter. Even if they're parents are religious nutjobs if they at least if they go to a public secular school there's some chance that they'll escape.

Have you ever seen Jesus Camp? Man, what a creepy movie.

[GaijinPunch]

And of course I don't think that immigrants should abandon all of there culture. My girlfriend moved here from Vietnam with her whole family when she was 13 and I think it's great. I love going to her parent's house (they don't speak very good English) and being around that whole thing. I of course understand that it's a lot harder to pick up a language after a certain age.

Statistically speaking, you're lucky they haven't shamed her out of the family (unless you're Vietnamese). That's the experience I've had w/ Vietnamese friends.

Have you ever seen Jesus Camp? Man, what a creepy movie.

I have worked for zealots before. I remember when one of my bosses actually asked one of the partners what he would do if one of his children turned out gay. Gay Camp was of course the answer. They pray the gay away. I of course said, "I'm sure there's tons of hooking up at that camp."

[xbl0x180]

And of course I don't think that immigrants should abandon all of there culture. My girlfriend moved here from Vietnam with her whole family when she was 13 and I think it's great. I love going to her parent's house (they don't speak very good English) and being around that whole thing. I of course understand that it's a lot harder to pick up a language after a certain age.

Statistically speaking, you're lucky they haven't shamed her out of the family (unless you're Vietnamese). That's the experience I've had w/ Vietnamese friends.

Have you ever seen Jesus Camp? Man, what a creepy movie.

I have worked for zealots before. I remember when one of my bosses actually asked one of the partners what he would do if one of his children turned out gay. Gay Camp was of course the answer. They pray the gay away. I of course said, "I'm sure there's tons of hooking up at that camp."

Well, if he's white, he'll get a by from the family even if they were to disapprove. I've had horrible experiences with Korean and Japanese families of girls I happened to be going out with... and I imagine the families of Vietnamese girls aren't too far off from hating latinos. I mean they absolutely hate latinos and make no beans about it. Hahahah

[Op Intensify]

If my dad had accepted a well-paying job offer before I was born, I would have grown up in and would probably still be living in England.

I'm starting to realize how lucky I was that didn't happen.

[GaijinPunch]

Well, if he's white, he'll get a by from the family even if they were to disapprove. I've had horrible experiences with Korean and Japanese families of girls I happened to be going out with...

Sounds like they were aware of your emoticon habits.

[xbl0x180]

Well, if he's white, he'll get a by from the family even if they were to disapprove. I've had horrible experiences with Korean and Japanese families of girls I happened to be going out with...

Sounds like they were aware of your emoticon habits.

Maybe I'll take a cue from you and act like douche with the next girl's family

[GaijinPunch]

Maybe I'll take a cue from you and act like douche with the next girl's family

How is taking a cue from me acting like a douche?

[BPzeBanshee]

Although I understand what you're saying (and I've been to Leicester) I would suggest framing your comments with a little more tact. The last time this arose I had to remind someone that unless you live in multicultural Britain, people will likely find your sentiment coarse.

Actually compared to me I thought he worded it quite well. Plus it's not like 'coarse' sentiments are uncommon on this forum anyway - you of all people should know.

For what it's worth I don't think the woman should've gotten jail time. It was a stupid mad rave, granted, but I don't see people doing stupid mad raves anywhere else (Britain's not the only 'multicultural' place on this planet) and getting arrested and doing jail time for it - that sounds more along the lines of China where saying 'our government sux we need more freedom' gets you carried into a black van and disappeared.

On the flipside I wouldn't stop anyone from knocking her teeth out or mouthing off at her in response, however - I've heard such has happened in US/AU sometimes in front of security/cops and they've sat there and watched because said person had it coming (mind you they use a different excuse in public, ie. "we're not allowed to actually touch people once they're technically outside the premises").

[burgerkingdiamond]

[img]Gaijin%20Punch[/img]

yeah I did get lucky in that respect. I was a little worried when I first went over there, but I turned out to not matter at all. Maybe I've just seen Gleaming the Cube too many times (haha I wonder how many people will get this?).

Her parent's really couldn't care less that I'm white. They always feed me and her dad is always eager to give me some Heinekens. I do wish that their English was better though. It can be hard to have a coherent conversation sometimes and I think that her mom just avoids it altogether because of poor English skills.

[Skykid]

Actually compared to me I thought he worded it quite well. Plus it's not like 'coarse' sentiments are uncommon on this forum anyway - you of all people should know.

Indeed.
It wasn't you I was thinking of though, it was Trevhead who brought up the same debate and got pounced on by someone. Glad it didn't go that way this time.

For what it's worth I don't think the woman should've gotten jail time.

Multicultural Britain takes racist rants seriously:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18251807

[BPzeBanshee]

It wasn't you I was thinking of though, it was Trevhead who brought up the same debate and got pounced on by someone. Glad it didn't go that way this time.

The one that set jonny5 off?

Multicultural Britain takes racist rants seriously:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18251807

Wow, serious business is serious. Maybe a little too serious. Must be one of those 'only in the UK' things or something because I swear if that happened for every remark construed as racist here then the jails here would be filled with 60+ people per cell. Being drunk probably didn't help her though (unless I read the article wrong).

[xbl0x180]

yeah I did get lucky in that respect. I was a little worried when I first went over there, but I turned out to not matter at all. Maybe I've just seen Gleaming the Cube too many times (haha I wonder how many people will get this?).

Her parent's really couldn't care less that I'm white. They always feed me and her dad is always eager to give me some Heinekens. I do wish that their English was better though. It can be hard to have a coherent conversation sometimes and I think that her mom just avoids it altogether because of poor English skills.

Here in SoCal, I don't know if it's common, but I have seen quite a few white dudes with Vietnamese girls. Three of those couples are from my old section at work. If I tried anything of the sort, in spite of the girls themselves being receptive to my advances, I imagine it'd be more like China Girl (I wonder how many people will get that reference)

[O. Van Bruce]

About how people feel about inmigrants in the UK... Isn't it almost the same in every other european country? I mean, The least racist country on Europe is, supossedly, France and we get a lot of news about muslims from there... here in Catalonia you can hear racists statements from every social class and there is a lot of political debate going on, specially from extreme right-wing parties that have gotten a lot of municipalities (even one from a city of over 200.000 inhabitants).

I think we will have racists everywhere but we hear more problems from britain specially due to their isolationism policy that they've allways had toward the world and "the continentals"... people are less likely to accept other cultures due to that mentality. In fact, I don't hear any real news about integration from britain... the integration of the inmigrants in the islands is inexistent, what you see is a lot of different comunities living separately and having contact only for bussiness and everyday live.

[Skykid]

The least racist country on Europe is, supossedly, France

Wat? France is one of the most outwardly racist/hostile European countries towards foreign visitors and immigrants I've ever been to. In contrast, they make Britain look like a champion of racial benevolence.

[Aliquantic]

What the man above said, and then some more, with Paris and Marseille taking the cake for hostility towards nigh everyone. London is indeed warm and fuzzy in comparison, and even the Southern US feels more tolerant to me (though a lot more violent, of course). Next I need to go to Japan for more comparative cultural studies.

[O. Van Bruce]

Oh... I've allways had the impression after visiting Paris that the French were more tolerant than that... well, at least the political and intellectual elite are more tolerant... aren't they?

[KAI]

Come to Argentina, and you will know the true meaning of racism.

[GaijinPunch]

Okay, I've been quiet long enough. No personal attacks here. Some people have different opinions. I know that's how it is. But, here's mine.

Saying that immigration is okay is small numbers is pretty cowardly. That's like saying "I don't mind gay people if they don't act gay in front of me". Cool.. so gay people should hide who they are in front of you. Awesome. Good luck w/ that.

If your motivation against mass immigration is financially motivated then cool. You actually have an argument... although a highly debatable one, and one I only agree with minimally in the short term. Humans have been around for about 20,000 years last count, but our borders only a few thousands years at most. Probably less. Hmm....

If it's for anything else, you basically don't have an argument. Autonomy? Give me a fucking break. How long ago was it the UK was pushing their beliefs (rather violently I might add) on the entire world? Nobody gives a fuck about your autonomy [especially if your'e English] just as nobody gives a fuck what the US thinks now since we've officially stolen the title of world-wide bad guy from you. I have chosen to immigrate to a country that has clinged to it's autonomy like it was it's life force itself. Look at the results: Japan is the laughing stock of the free world. 20 years of declining economy and the forecast has nothing but even more dire consequences. Now I have to worry about bringing up a child in this fist fuck of a mess. If I was a political cartoonist, I would make an illustration of one of these cheese dick Japanese politicians clinging to a giant bolder w/ the words "autonomy" on it as it took him to the bottom of the ocean.

There really is no middle ground here. You're for a little immigration but not a lot? The fucking borders are a new phenomenon. You're acting like they've been around as long as the sun. What a fucking crock of shit. The United Kindgom? The United States? Fucking hilarious. The former used to force itself on any country it could find, and the latter is based on people that made it from any of those countries. Yet, 200 years later, people want to speak as if they have been divinely chosen. Hilarious. Take a step back. Maybe even smoke a joint. In the big picture, you are shit, and probably don't deserve the land you inhabit. In another couple of hundred years, there will either be no jackasses to debate it, or they will be debating something even more asinine than we are.

The cunt in the video in the original post is just that. So the fuck what. She's British, and she sees a bunch of dark-skinned people. Boo fucking hoo. At some point people have to wake up and smell the roses. It's no longer a bunch of countries...it's a single planet. There are infrastructure and economical issues to think of when it comes to immigration, but after living in a country that has flat out ignored the fact that immigration is it's saving factor, I have a strong opinion on the subject. You're a human first and foremost. If you want to do things your own way, fine. You can watch the rset of us assimilate and live a prosperous life while you have your impending doom to deal with.

Don't be a fucking moron. Globalization will either happen, or we won't live to see awesome shit like a meteor wipe us all out.

French

I went to France w/ my at-the-time wife, and nobody gave me shit. Of course, I was speaking Japanese to her most of the time. If you're American and as loud as most Americans, you will probably not be so lucky. They probably thought I was Canadian, even though I refused maple syrup at every chance. Was on a diet.

[SuperPang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2H6mpUnsLI

[Friendly]

This topic isn't about racism, it's about xenophobia. Those two terms are not the same. Xenophobia means fear (and dislike) of foreigners.