Shooting Game Tournament 2007 (Themes/Game Selection Thread)

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:48 am

Twiddle wrote:The fact that OCD timing on the charge release and destruction control is needed or else you lose 5-15 million off your potential score? That's pretty terrible.

That bad, huh? At least it doesn't look like the artists vomited a bunch of sprites on screen randomly (Kingdom Grandprix.)

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:49 am

That's the only thing it has over KGP.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:52 am

Wow... That sounds like a scoring system Rob might actually hate MORE than enemy chaining o_O

I liked what little of Dimahoo I played, but... I didn't get to the fourth stage, let alone play with scoring mechanics ^_^

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:16 am

I'm having a hard time playing Eco Fighters.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:52 am

Eco Fighters:
Messy. R-type shield effective radius is about 5 pixels. Insufficient for clutter that said shield needs to deflect.
This game gives me cancer.
0 stars.

Xexex:
Checkpoint shooter. Nice and tactical, but not my bag.
2 stars.

Vasara 1:
Uhm....
0 stars.

Cyvern:
Charge shot rivaling Dimahoo in wieldiness.
Medal based scoring system I honestly couldn't give a shit about because lol ammo conservation in a constantly-scrolling shooter
1 star.

Omega Fighter:
Awesome, pointblanking scoring system, secret bonuses, and engine complexity almost modern! From 1989, even!
Special Ver. has gameplay tunings that make it better, though, such as less randomness for the pickups and you keep your intact bombs after death.
(Note: shoe-sama has tried to replicate that OF Special crash to stage 1 on numerous occasions to no avail.)
4 stars.

(Air Gallet would get 3.)

If any

es want to argue with any of these on the basis of purely gameplay (and not "good" graphics/music/other shit that doesn't really matter because if you can't enjoy the game it doesn't matter how pretty it is) please feel free to, otherwise eat my shit.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:06 am

Twiddle wrote:Eco Fighters:
[...]
This game gives me cancer.

Brilliant!

Zigfried the Trizealot · Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:00 am

Omega Fighter would be a nice hidden gem.

Twin Cobra would be another nice one. It's a gem, and it's hidden amidst a sea of Toaplan crap.

//Zig

Post by **Icarus** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:27 am

Protip: It's no longer a "hidden gem" when you post your opinions on it on the forum. :P

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:30 am

Surely, the only sane ballot would be:

[ ] Omega Fighter Special
[ ] Twin Cobra
[ ] Macross II
[ ] Thunder Dragon 2
[ ] Turbo Force

then nix Hidden Gem week for all future STGTs.

"Lower tier" reviews coming up. More good games than "top tier". What the fuck is the logic in putting certain games here?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:31 am

No, it is a hidden gem if only one person's standards are low enough to enjoy it.

WHIP RUSH!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:11 am

Dragon Breed:
I don't like checkpoint shooters, but this isn't as retarded as other Irem fare.
2 stars.

19XX:
Difficulty assessment: Shoe-sama got to the final stage in just 8 hours of gameplay. Something isn't right here.
Scoring losses for missing enemies is roughly 2/3 of Viper Phase 1 level.
1 star.

Sengeki Striker:
Obscure scoring system that depends on letting go of the fire button.
Bullets are hard to see. Doesn't feel very enjoyable or "meaty".
2 stars.

Change Air Blade:
Pointless to score in. Get 6 million ALL in one game, 8 million non-ALL in the next. CPU AI is pretty shitty, and fourth ship just leaves the opponent in the dust.
0 stars.

In the Hunt:
This is possibly the only game where I'd suggest checkpoints. Unless you like doing more dangerous things, hard to recover after death. Scoring system absent for a game like this.
2 stars.

Game Tengoku = The Game Paradise. This is listed twice, both in DIFFERENT FUCKING TIERS. What the fuck?

Outzone:
Not easy with super ball weapon. The game is easier, yes, but you'll still get creamed really quick if you get blindsided, and it's not like super ball has range, nor does it cancel any enemy projectile. (In fact, I can think of games more broken than this. Like Darius Gaiden.)
As of current MAME version, game is HARD AS FUCK. I have trouble getting past the second stage, as rank seems to be 3 times more severe than the last version, and you're given much less bombs.
3 stars.

more to come. Note the increase in average quality!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:09 am

Thunder Cross II:
Not sure how this is hidden, but anyway...
Scoring system revolving around picking up "?" with max power. That's about it, besides destroying enemies.
Don't really enjoy this one, but can't see most people writhing in pain over it.
1 star.

X-Multiply:
Irem lol
0 stars.

Space Manbow - Not in MAME.

L-Dis - Not in MAME.

Omega Fighter Special:
Like I said before, shoe-sama tried to replicate that bug on numerous occasions and never got it again.
See Omega Fighter writeup.
5 stars.

Captain Skyhawk:
Boring, indeed.
0 stars.

Nostradamus:
Not bad, but I'm sure we can play better games. Scoring based on distance, more or less.
2 stars.

Zunzunkyou No Yabou:
lol
0 stars.

Assault Suits Valken:
Not in MAME, but also not a shmup.
0 stars. (technical penalty)

Biohazard Battle - Not in MAME.

Grindstormer:
No sound.
0 stars. (technical penalty, otherwise 2)

V-V:
See Grindstormer.
0 stars. (technical penalty, otherwise 1)

Black Heart:
Gigantic hitbox.
0 stars.

Iridis Alpha - Not in MAME.

Turbo Force:
I exposed everyone in IRC to this, and they all fucking hated it. I got a kick out of it though, despite how horrifyingly cheap it can be. Hint: Don't hold the fire button.
2 stars.

Boogie Wings:
Nice, a game I can be invincible in for nearly all of the game!
0 stars.

Shienryu:
Not emulated well. Shame, because I like the game.
0 stars. (technical penalty, otherwise 3)

Air Duel:
This is crap. Irem cannot make vertical scrollers for shit. Boring.
0 stars.

R-Type Leo:
The end bonus is more balanced than Darius Gaiden, because the stages actually get harder. Second to R-Type Delta solely for the lack of checkpoints, so +1
3 stars.

Strike Gunner STG:

0 stars.

That's all, folks, suggest more horrible games!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:22 am

Twiddle wrote:Hint: Don't hold the fire button.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:22 am

I ruined the surprise for everyone by posting that. Then they switched to time based instead of ammo based for power in Aero Fighters and it was just lol

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:37 am

Twiddle wrote:19XX:
Difficulty assessment: Shoe-sama got to the final stage in just 8 hours of gameplay. Something isn't right here.
Scoring losses for missing enemies is roughly 2/3 of Viper Phase 1 level.
1 star.

Actually I played it less than 3 hours.

And it was only stage 6 boss, but yeah.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:12 pm

Twiddle wrote:Gun Frontier:
AUTOFIRE SUPRISE! Rank system goes haywire if delay is set to less than 3.
Ugly.
This marks the beginning of an era where Taito doesn't seem to know how to make decent shooting games that aren't Space Invaders sequels, until what became G.Rev came along.
1 star.

I'm gonna have to make a plug for Gun Frontier here, and also explain the autofire issue.

Basically as Twiddle said, rank increases according to how many shots you fire, so if you blast through with no delay, things are gonna get pretty tough, basically this was designed to prevent abuse of autofire circuits. HOWEVER not playing with autofire will crowd the screen with swarms of enemies that you just can't kill off in time, essentially making the game just as difficult as with the rank increase, which is why Gun Frontier pros all play with autofire regardless!
Basically, it's just a tough game.

So basically, full auto would be totally okay for a competition, and players could choose how they want to handle it (either risk rank increase, or try to wing it without auto, or use variable fire). Also keep in mind that this game is the originator of Raizings bombing style, you constantly fill up your bomb stock, so make good use of them rather than simply firing the whole time.

The Saturn port is a bit fucked up, and would have to be disqualified from the tournament, as it has full-auto enabled, but without rank increase, making the game ridiculously easy.

So why is Gun Frontier a good game?

- Great graphics, music and atmosphere - the whole game has a really dusty Spaghetti-Western feel to it, from the decrepit landscapes to the Ennio Morricone inspired soundtrack.

- The game is actually very challenging and difficult. I would expect at most 1 or 2 ALLs.

- Scoring is based around bombing in specific locations and/or pulling off certain "tricks" similar to the ones found in some Raizing games. Since these secrets are poorly documented in the West, it would encourage teams to do a little more strategic work and trial and error than on the previous tournament games.

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:31 pm

Twiddle wrote: Black Heart:
Gigantic hitbox.
0 stars.

The hitbox is tiny! its roughly just the size of the dragon riders head.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:32 pm

Knightmare

It's a shooter, but you are playing the wrong game. I believe who recommended it was talking about the MSX game.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:41 pm

Knightmare - Not in MAME.

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:48 pm

Surely there must be an NMK game in hidden gem week, P-47 Aces and Thunder Dragon 2 are the best choices (Rapid Hero isnt hard enough)

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:50 pm

CIT wrote:I'm gonna have to make a plug for Gun Frontier here, and also explain the autofire issue.

Basically as Twiddle said, rank increases according to how many shots you fire, so if you blast through with no delay, things are gonna get pretty tough, basically this was designed to prevent abuse of autofire circuits. HOWEVER not playing with autofire will crowd the screen with swarms of enemies that you just can't kill off in time, essentially making the game just as difficult as with the rank increase, which is why Gun Frontier pros all play with autofire regardless!
Basically, it's just a tough game.

So basically, full auto would be totally okay for a competition, and players could choose how they want to handle it (either risk rank increase, or try to wing it without auto, or use variable fire). Also keep in mind that this game is the originator of Raizings bombing style, you constantly fill up your bomb stock, so make good use of them rather than simply firing the whole time.

The Saturn port is a bit fucked up, and would have to be disqualified from the tournament, as it has full-auto enabled, but without rank increase, making the game ridiculously easy.

So why is Gun Frontier a good game?

- Great graphics, music and atmosphere - the whole game has a really dusty Spaghetti-Western feel to it, from the decrepit landscapes to the Ennio Morricone inspired soundtrack.

- The game is actually very challenging and difficult. I would expect at most 1 or 2 ALLs.

- Scoring is based around bombing in specific locations and/or pulling off certain "tricks" similar to the ones found in some Raizing games. Since these secrets are poorly documented in the West, it would encourage teams to do a little more strategic work and trial and error than on the previous tournament games.

Actually the rank stays pretty stable with auto 3/4, which also provides reasonable enough firepower to clear enemies with.

I'd like to know what drugs you're taking re: graphics. The sprite work looks awesomely amateurish and the tilesets do not blend with each other well.

The pointgain for keeping your bombs is higher than using them for scenery. Granted, I haven't played past stage 4 in my attempt of trying to like it, though (maybe the game throws in 5000 point bombing spots later on but that just makes things uneven.) Also, I'd like to know the method in which one would find "tricks" in this game, as this game would be slightly improved. For these I'd rather be playing Garegga.

Battle Garegga for hidden gem week!

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:55 pm

Twiddle wrote: I'd like to know what drugs you're taking re: graphics. The sprite work looks awesomely amateurish and the tilesets do not blend with each other well.

I think the graphics look pretty damn good. Lots of small details, and an overall style that was later mimicked in Garegga (and then Batrider and Bakraid)

Maybe you just dont like all the brown? Perhaps the artists did go overboard in the brown department.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:58 pm

Yeah, probably.

Garegga was 70% grey though, but that's easier on the eyes.

(The style wasn't mimicked in Batrider.)

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:59 pm

Cave games are 90% purple.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:50 pm

No... there's more blue and pink than purple o_O

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:04 pm

Twiddle wrote:Battle Garegga for hidden gem week!

Now there's an idea!

About the Gun Frontier secrets, it's basically bombing certain scenery, killing certain enemies with bombs rather than shots, letting certain enemies live then killing them once they reach a certain spot, etc. The first big scoring area is the stage 2 where you can get 10000 instead of 1000 pts for bombing certain enemies (it's not the flamingoes btw). I can tell you more, but only after hidden gem week.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:05 pm

Let me guess. Airships!

And the two tanks in stage 1 right on the bridge.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:08 pm

No, the tank you're supposed to let live is in a later stage. Bombing him in the correct spot wil yield you the much coveted max power up item! ^^

And yeah, airships.

Post by **Icarus** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:13 pm

Twiddle wrote:Surely, the only sane ballot would be:

[ ] Omega Fighter Special
[ ] Gun Frontier
[ ] Macross II
[ ] Trigon
[ ] Kyukyoku Tiger 2

then nix Hidden Gem week for all future STGTs.

Fix'd.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:15 pm

Gun Frontier only gets a 1 point upgrade, sorry.

Also, Trigon sucks.