Cave x Steam teaser!

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:07 pm

Seeing as Mushi is one of the few 360 ports I didn't buy ..

CloudyMusic · Post by **CloudyMusic** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:27 pm

Seems like a good first choice to me. Since I don't own the 360 port, I'll happily buy this...not that I wouldn't have anyway, just to support future releases.

Teufel_in_Blau · Post by **Teufel_in_Blau** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:37 pm

I am very, VERY happy with the game choice!

20 bucks is bargain bin considering what you have to pay for the 360 game alone (and don't get me started what a Japanese 360 costs to import)! I'm fine with the DLC for 1.5. The explanation from Blackbird make perfect sense to me.

Again, great job, guys!! I can't wait to play Mushi on my PC! And to all the guys complaining: I hope that you will all buy the shit out of this game. Let's not fool ourselves here, money is the only way to convince Degica/CAVE to do a Muchi Muchi Pork HD or even a Ibara Black Label HD port!

Also, Blackbird posted this on GAF:

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:56 pm

Just to derail it all before it starts:

Yes, that's probably a macbook air.
It's running windows, settle down.

Obscura · Post by **Obscura** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:56 pm

Teufel_in_Blau wrote:Let's not fool ourselves here, money is the only way to convince Degica/CAVE to do a Muchi Muchi Pork HD or even a Ibara Black Label HD port!

I hate seeing this "buy something you don't want, so that publishers/devlopers makes something that you do want!" logic.

Capcom keeps pulling this crap ("if you want a real DMC 5, you'll buy DMC 4 a second time!") as does ASW ("If you want Xrd on PC, you'll buy Isuka on Steam!"), and it's a type of behavior that really shouldn't be rewarded. For one thing, "the thing you really want" never seems to materialize. For another thing, it's not (or, at least, shouldn't be) up to the consumer to take the risk in a project such as "DMC 5" or "Xrd on PC"; the risk should be on the company. Finally, the "prove to us that you really love us!" angle is kinda gross.

(I'm well aware that Cave and Degica haven't stated anything about using the kind of "let's hold the game you really want hostage!" tactics that Capcom and ASW use. Honestly, I think that Degica are above that kind of nonsense. I just hate seeing anyone use it as a reason to buy anything.)

KAI · Post by **KAI** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:17 pm

Based on Mushi HD

YESS!!!!!!! Thank god it wasn't Futari, I'm sick of that game.

Strikers1945guy · Post by **Strikers1945guy** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:18 pm

zakk wrote:Just to derail it all before it starts:

Yes, that's probably a macbook air.
It's running windows, settle down.

Why bother owning the mac then

Mantrox · Post by **Mantrox** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:22 pm

Obscura wrote:
Teufel_in_Blau wrote:Let's not fool ourselves here, money is the only way to convince Degica/CAVE to do a Muchi Muchi Pork HD or even a Ibara Black Label HD port!
I hate seeing this "buy something you don't want, so that publishers/devlopers makes something that you do want!" logic.

Capcom keeps pulling this crap ("if you want a real DMC 5, you'll buy DMC 4 a second time!") as does ASW ("If you want Xrd on PC, you'll buy Isuka on Steam!"), and it's a type of behavior that really shouldn't be rewarded. For one thing, "the thing you really want" never seems to materialize. For another thing, it's not (or, at least, shouldn't be) up to the consumer to take the risk in a project such as "DMC 5" or "Xrd on PC"; the risk should be on the company. Finally, the "prove to us that you really love us!" angle is kinda gross.

(I'm well aware that Cave and Degica haven't stated anything about using the kind of "let's hold the game you really want hostage!" tactics that Capcom and ASW use. Honestly, I think that Degica are above that kind of nonsense. I just hate seeing anyone use it as a reason to buy anything.)

What can you do when it comes to this type of niche genre?
How can you justify investing in releasing another title if the response to the first one is weak and non expressive?

One thing is to milk the IP's based on their fanbase; but when you take in to account that the company wich underwent a big restructuring effort, and refocused all of their resources on a completly different platform (iOS) is pushing to have a bigger audience where it can really make a difference (you wont have people posting replays and being competitive with an audience behind them on a mobile platform; at least as it exists today); isn't it incentive enough that you can buy a good game and helping building the momentum for some more releases?

What course of action would be better?
A kickstarter? Give us your money now so we can maybe give half of what you didn't ask for in a year (**Exclusive 15.000€ tier, limited edition PCB**)?

If you really don't like the game, don't buy it. That's a given.
But if you have the oportunity to support a company that has a really unique set of people and skills, would you rather have it disband?

Im just trying to understand the reasoning behind the passive agressiveness that rises up when developers keep trying to please fans.

Obscura · Post by **Obscura** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:39 pm

I get the feeling you didn't read my post at all (either that, or you're not familiar with Guilty Gear Isuka, or the fact that it's liked by exactly zero people in the entire world).

My point is that the "buy it even if you don't like Mushihimesama, because if you do, you might get the game you really want!" call-to-action is ridiculous. If you like Mushihimesama and would buy this because you like Mushihimesama, then, definitely, buy this. But, if you don't like Mushihimesama, buying Mushihimesama on Steam in the hopes of getting MMP/SDOJ/whatever later is stupid.

TransatlanticFoe · Post by **TransatlanticFoe** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:42 pm

Excellent, previously region locked so guaranteed purchase from me.

Bananamatic · Post by **Bananamatic** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:42 pm

Elixir wrote: Ultra - Same bullet speed as above but with very fundamentally different patterns. Multiplier still exists but isn't emphasized on as much due to the sheer difficulty (kind of like Futari Ultra), but S-power destroys bosses quicker with a trade-off of stages being harder due to the linear shot it has. Also, the only mode with the TLB.

iirc W is superior even for bosses with the point blank damage, especially when done with a bomb you remove a ton of their health

copy-paster · Post by **copy-paster** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:52 pm

Ah good Mushi being 1st title, hope they added some extras like image gallery and challenges, prepare for my money.

KAI wrote:Thank god it wasn't Futari, I'm sick of that game.

Futari feels mixed bag for me, so maybe I agree with you.

Mantrox · Post by **Mantrox** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:02 pm

Obscura wrote:I get the feeling you didn't read my post at all (either that, or you're not familiar with Guilty Gear Isuka, or the fact that it's liked by exactly zero people in the entire world).

My point is that the "buy it even if you don't like Mushihimesama, because if you do, you might get the game you really want!" call-to-action is ridiculous. If you like Mushihimesama and would buy this because you like Mushihimesama, then, definitely, buy this. But, if you don't like Mushihimesama, buying Mushihimesama on Steam in the hopes of getting MMP/SDOJ/whatever later is stupid.

Can you dissociate supporting a developer from buying the games?

Im not John doe in 1997 saying buy the upcoming square game because we might get good rpg's.

Im saying if you want to Support a developer that caters to a very small market and is not in very good shape, a good way to do that is buying the games.

You have to do it in context, thats all.

Pardon any mistakes, as im on the phone.

Xyga · Post by **Xyga** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:08 pm

Mantrox wrote:Im just trying to understand the reasoning behind the passive agressiveness that rises up when developers keep trying to please fans.

This is the internet...take a picture of a beautiful landscape and post it: 3 out of 10 will enjoy it, 7 will complain about: because of the bird in the background, the poor contrast choice, the watermark in the corner, accuse you of photoshopping it, stealing it, being a nazi, WHATEVER.

We're living in the era where people pressured Facebook to add a 'Do Not Like' button and won. It's just that.

@Oscura: can you compare Cave's capital and investment power to Capcom's ? Can you compare the game markets they're aming at ? Or their sales figures ?
No because they are worlds apart.
There's a real meaning in saying we should try buying whatever we can from this batch of Cave re-releases, much much more meaningful than Capcom's BS.

Muchi Muchi Spork · Post by **Muchi Muchi Spork** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:13 pm

The 1.5 max modes are where it's at. Definitely some of the most fun I've ever had with a video game. My maniac max clear is one of my favorite clears of all time. Maybe the #1 fav. You can see it in my youtube channel.

Obscura · Post by **Obscura** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:24 pm

Mantrox wrote:
Obscura wrote:I get the feeling you didn't read my post at all (either that, or you're not familiar with Guilty Gear Isuka, or the fact that it's liked by exactly zero people in the entire world).

My point is that the "buy it even if you don't like Mushihimesama, because if you do, you might get the game you really want!" call-to-action is ridiculous. If you like Mushihimesama and would buy this because you like Mushihimesama, then, definitely, buy this. But, if you don't like Mushihimesama, buying Mushihimesama on Steam in the hopes of getting MMP/SDOJ/whatever later is stupid.
Can you dissociate supporting a developer from buying the games?

Im not John doe in 1997 saying buy the upcoming square game because we might get good rpg's.

Im saying if you want to Support a developer that caters to a very small market and is not in very good shape, a good way to do that is buying the games.

You have to do it in context, thats all.

Pardon any mistakes, as im on the phone.

"Supporting a company" is a dumb mentality.

It's not up to the consumer to support the company; it's up to the company to produce what the consumer wants. It comes back to "if you like Mushihimesama, buy this; if not, don't".

You're a customer, not a charity worker. Cave are a company, not a homeless man in line at the soup kitchen. You buying a game from Cave should be seen as a transaction, not a donation.

nekketsu · Post by **nekketsu** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:47 pm

Not my first choice by far, but I'll happily buy this day one.

In case some didn't notice, Cave isn't Capcom, and they've been exclusively making mobile games the last few years. Throwing $20 their way to show them that shmups are viable on Steam/PC is a very small price to pay to help keep my niche interest, and their niche product alive.

I have zero interest in touchscreen "swipe-dodging" and it pains me to see a once-great company working only in that market. If Cave went from porting games to mobile, to actually developing new, original mobile products, then I don't see why successful Steam sales couldn't translate into new, original PC games down the road.

As was already said, context is key. It's fine to take a strong, principled stance with how you spend your money, but me I'll put my money toward things I want to see more of in the future.

Obscura · Post by **Obscura** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:01 pm

You could also show the world that shmups are viable on Steam by buying Kamui, CC:WI, Raiden III, or, tomorrow, Eschatos.

You'd also actually get a good game out of the deal.

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:09 pm

I would recommend getting Crimzon Clover and Raiden III off GOG because if I remember right the publishers didn't actually bother to remove the Steam CEG DRM from the Steam versions even after they got a DRM-free GOG release. Remember to show the world that you want PC shmups, not Steam shmups.

Edit: Maybe it was just Crimzon Clover actually.

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:12 pm

Mushihimesama is a great choice...even though I haven't guessed it

Will buy on day one

Shepardus · Post by **Shepardus** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:18 pm

Elixir wrote:
Blackbird wrote:If someone knows a lot about the differences between the modes, a brief overview would be really helpful actually. I can make a stronger pitch for different modes if I know more detailed info about the differences between them.
Mushi's my thing so I'll try, but it's not as difficult as what people seem to think.

Thanks for the writeup. If anyone's interested Icarus wrote an explanation of the mechanics in Maniac/Ultra.

supergrafx77 · Post by **supergrafx77** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:24 pm

Just wanted to echo my great satisfaction w/ this choice. Between Mushi 1.5 and SDOJ, either one would have been great decisions for a first Steam port.

I still pray though, that although this is an x360 port, the x-ray of the pcb blitter can be implemented and used in conjunction with this Steam augmentation to provide almost 100% accurate pcb slowdown.

nekketsu · Post by **nekketsu** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:35 pm

Obscura wrote:You could also show the world that shmups are viable on Steam by buying Kamui, CC:WI, Raiden III, or, tomorrow, Eschatos.

You'd also actually get a good game out of the deal.

Yes but I want to show Cave that their shmups are viable. And FWIW I do like Mushihimesama, it's just not among my faves from them. Plus I already own most of those games you mentioned

MathU wrote:I would recommend getting Crimzon Clover and Raiden III off GOG because if I remember right the publishers didn't actually bother to remove the Steam CEG DRM from the Steam versions even after they got a DRM-free GOG release. Remember to show the world that you want PC shmups, not Steam shmups.

My only gripe with the GOG version of CC is that they still haven't released the latest update which was available to Steam users months ago.

Mantrox · Post by **Mantrox** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:36 pm

"Supporting a company" is a dumb mentality.

It's not up to the consumer to support the company; it's up to the company to produce what the consumer wants. It comes back to "if you like Mushihimesama, buy this; if not, don't".

You're a customer, not a charity worker. Cave are a company, not a homeless man in line at the soup kitchen. You buying a game from Cave should be seen as a transaction, not a donation.

Context is key. There is a time and a place, a how and a why.

Aisha · Post by **Aisha** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Blackbird wrote:To everyone disappointed that it's not Futari, I think CAVE wanted to start with this one first. Rest assured, I'm a big fan of Mushi Futari, so it won't go ignored! Futari's not planned currently, but if things go well, it's a natural future step on Steam..

So I guess it's safe to assume that the second game CAVE is teasing isn't Futari. Any hints?

Also, are there any more details about the 1.5 DLC, like pricing and whether or not it will go live with the game or be released at a later point in time?

slateman · Post by **slateman** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:52 pm

Sounds like a good start and I never got to play Mushi HD, so I'm kinda psyched. I think Futari would've been better as well...but if maybe SDOJ or Futari come in the future, I'd be friggin' psyched to have all three at my fingertips. Haven't played Mushihimesama in ages. Man, the music on stage 4 is just brilliant.

So, $20 for the base, $10 for 1.5, is that what I just read?

Shalashaska · Post by **Shalashaska** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:10 pm

Great news! Mushi isn't my favorite and I already own this on my J360 but I'll buy the Steam version just to show support.

I find the first two stages of Mushi Original extremely boring. The 1.5 version is much better, imo, (especially on Max); you guys that haven't tried 1.5 are in for a treat I think.

slateman · Post by **slateman** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:58 pm

Shalashaska wrote:I find the first two stages of Mushi Original extremely boring.

This. I felt the same about the first ESP Galuda. Just so dry and slow.

Shalashaska wrote:The 1.5 version is much better, imo, (especially on Max); you guys that haven't tried 1.5 are in for a treat I think.

= worth the price of admission. Now to figure out how to / if I can turn my monitor.

Obscura · Post by **Obscura** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:59 pm

Your monitor probably has a universal mount on the back. Just attach it to any monitor stand that supports page view, and voila -- instant, easy tate.

Lemone · Post by **Lemone** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:12 pm

Might we actually get a playable release of the original Ibara?

shmups.system11.org

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