Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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GaijinPunch wrote:
Mischief Maker wrote:This movie isn't that complex, it's just such a betrayal of the original "Alien" that it's throwing people off.
Why is probably why Scott threw up disclaimers from ages ago. The only official word from him was, "it's in the same universe as Alien." In his eyes, it can't be a betrayal.
You know, I'm probably going to get myself in the same hot water I did back when I said Final Fantasy Tactics Advance can and should be judged next to the original FFT, but this movie came to me asking for my time and my money with a trailer that aping the original Alien Trailer, with the scream and the fade in of the title. I'm not going to give it a pass because of some random interview 99% of audience members never read.

I have the tiniest inkling of respect for the fact that Scott came to a movie business that absolutely will not throw significant amounts of money at any movie that doesn't have some kind of nostalgia audience attached and played their game just enough for him to get his art film made... but it's a dumb art film. Hell, that "leaked" script we were groaning over months ago was better than this. Boo to the whole incestuous movie business and the 6 companies that control it, along with over 90% of the cultural output in America, and boo to this movie. Prometheus only seems great because the bar has already been set so very low.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Maybe we'll get to this weird point in time where everyone discovers that Alien3 was a masterpiece all along.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

Post by GaijinPunch »

Mischief Maker wrote: I'm not going to give it a pass because of some random interview 99% of audience members never read.
Hmm... but the same random audience members probably wouldn't have picked up on the Alien references either.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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So, looks like I'm on the other side of the fence for once. :idea:

In the Euro's two day absence, I ventured out in my boredom to see this. It was worth the price of entry.

From the top: not a modern masterpiece. But, it's absolutely what RGC said, an enjoyable popcorn movie, and a cut above the regular I might add.

Several factors may be involved here that I have been contemplating since leaving the theatre:

First, that the standard of popcorn movies out of Hollywood has been so criminally low for so long, that this seemed fifty times better than most.

Second: I love sci-fi, and have been starved of decent genre material over the last decade. It's the best sci-fi movie I've seen since Sunshine and Moon.

Third: Everyone here slashed any expectation I had to absolute rock bottom. By skirting this thread to avoid spoilers, I also ascertained prior to viewing that I shouldn't be expecting exact ties, links or explanations to the Alien movies, nor should I be expecting an 'Alien' movie in the traditional sense. I can only assume this worked out for the better.

Starting with the bad: The casting was irregular. The scottish woman was so appallingly poor, so gratingly bad, that she even made Fyfield's awful overacting and relative insignificance as a character pale in comparison. She actually affected the quality of the entire movie with her presence - a massive faux pas for someone like Scott. I can only imagine her contract was not terminable after shooting had gotten underway. Regardless, casting has something to answer for.

Moving on to the next point: casting. It was a fuzzy job. Noomi Rapace, Theron, Fassbender, Guy Pearce, yes; Male companion of Rapace and Apone the captain, iffy; everyone else, substantially poor.

This wasn't helped by the scripting. The unnecessary exposition at certain points was irritating and should have been edited out. The failings of the script were not absolute, it just wavered from average to poor. Proof of this occurs with the opening twenty minutes being the most artistically striking because very little is said, and certain credibility begins to thaw at the exact same point as the cryo pods.

The good part is, everything else was on form. Visually, it was second to none, a beautiful looking movie that has one of the best uses of 3D I've seen. It also managed to either conceal or refrain from using CG unnecessarily, to its credit.

Although the actors were dodgy, Scott's direction was firm. He told the story very well, simple as it was, and it never flagged or ran out of pace or intrigue. I felt the movie's main commodity was just that: intrigue. It was hugely imaginative, a feast of ideas and unexplored concepts.

Now, I did notice the holes and even errors. Why Rapace states that the inscriptions at the beginning are 5000 years old and then announces during the briefing that they're 35,000 years old was fairly unusual. There are also plenty of odd or unexplainable things that I won't bother to list because they've already been mentioned here.

One thing that irks me is why the crewmen are retards. In the original Alien, the crew are professionals, bar the two mechanics. Here the geologist is a fucking retard and so is his hippie companion, who does little to nothing except die. In Aliens the marines were hardened grunts - superficial, but they could get away with it - everyone else was in control of their positions. I suppose the Alien franchise has always allowed an element of 'civilian' to mix up its casting, but it felt wrong here.

Anyway, all in all, I don't quite understand people's issues with it, unless you allowed yourself to be so bouyed by the hype machine that you were expecting the second coming of Gaijinpunch. I have a remedy for that: don't believe the hype, ever. You'll enjoy everything a lot more with lower expecations.

I could dissalow the obvious scientific problems because this is science fiction, not fact, and it provided plenty to chew on regarding the origin of the Alien and I very much appreciated its open-endedness. Sometimes it's much more preferable to be left with questions that spur the imagination than to be disappointed with all the answers.

8/10 from me, good fun.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Mischief Maker wrote;
This movie isn't that complex, it's just such a betrayal of the original "Alien" that it's throwing people off.

The Engineer at the beginning is Prometheus.

The Canisters are Pandora's Box.

The Android is Pandora.

The Black Goo and the various forms of throat rape it generates are the evils hidden in Pandora's box.

Shaw's faith is the hope hidden at the bottom of Pandora's box.

That's IT. Why is the Android doing all these incredibly stupid impulsive things like dosing the guy's drink? Because Pandora's insatiable curiosity doomed us all. Why did the Engineers leave clues everywhere to lead humanity to discover the black goo? Because the Gods set Pandora up to fail by making the box impossible to resist.

This theme is the engine of the movie, and any previously established details from the original movie are swept aside in the service of it. Whereas the original was nihilistic to its core, all the way down to its "in space, no one can hear you scream" tagline, Prometheus is an artsy tableau, where scientists "believe" and nobody puts on gloves before handling biological crap. Nobody would have watched Prometheus if it wasn't stapled to an already established franchise.

Stop analyzing it in the same frame as "Alien" and the mysteries evaporate.
spoilers....
Good explanations :) , but I would argue that Prometheus is more nihilistic than Alien 1979. The dumb reaction of the living engineer of not bothering to converse with the humans & just OFF'ing them, plus Weyland's last words "There is nothing (croak)" are extremely nihilistic.

EDIT:-
Team Skykid wrote;
Starting with the bad: The casting was irregular. The scottish woman was so appallingly poor, so gratingly bad, that she even made Fyfield's awful overacting and relative insignificance as a character pale in comparison. She actually affected the quality of the entire movie with her presence - a massive faux pas for someone like Scott. I can only imagine her contract was not terminable after shooting had gotten underway. Regardless, casting has something to answer for.
Well if you look back, this was the very first thing I mentioned about the movie. The fact that she CLANGED at least two of her 4 lines in the movie. Horrible non-actress. A crime of casting.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

Computer screen: Free from foreign contagion

Scottish woman: (Turns to camera) Its free from foreign contagion

This must've been a joke. A reference to Sigourney Weaver's character from Galaxy Quest, who just repeats whatever the computer says. The embarrassing regional accents made the whole thing sound like a sub-standard episode of Torchwood.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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:lol: yeh, she was totally dire.

Reckon String's co-pilots actually knew the plan was suicide? I mean, he wasn't explicit about it. They probably thought he had some kind of wicked, space-handbrake turn in mind to bait the Engineer into doing some lunar laps.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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DEL wrote:The fact that she CLANGED at least two of her 4 lines in the movie. Horrible non-actress. A crime of casting.
Absolutely was. Don't know how she made the final cut.

Now I've been able to re-read this thread properly without fear of spoilers, I can see a lot of criticism being driven toward a lack of realism and coherency. It's odd that you folks should feel so aggrieved by these elements in a movie meant to precede the events of a horror movie where a crew land on random planet, get impregnated by an alien egg and proceed to be hunted down and murdered by a large black monster with acid for blood and an extendable brain-chewing mouth.

There was a lot of stupid crap in the movie - I think my biggest irritant of plotting was the spur of the moment sacrifice made by captain don't-give-a-fuck and his have-these-guys-just-wondered-onto-the-set crewmen.

Unfortunately it was a film that Scott clearly thought would need to appear 'clever' - its undoing of sorts - even though Alien and Aliens are simply about people getting fucked up by a mean alien species. There's no real scope for it to be overtly intellectual, so it ends up being flakey and flawed in its attempts.

BUT: It's science fantasy, not Patrick Moore's secrets of the universe. It was fun, engaging, imaginative and visually stimulating; and that's more than I've had out of Hollywood in yonks. I particularly liked its aesthetic, very clinical and medical, but with a tie to the present. It did feel correct for 2091 because it wasn't too elaborate.

It was close to, but probably a touch tighter, than the Dark Knight; maybe equal to Inception and Sunshine, but a little under Moon. Better than Avatar by a fair chalk, and wipes the floor with the likes of In Time.

Apologies, I can't really think of many memorable popcorn sci-fi fantasy movies of late to compare it to - but it was enjoyable enough that, if he can keep the pace and mystique, I'd happily see what's in-store in the sequel.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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RGC wrote:Reckon String's co-pilots actually knew the plan was suicide? I mean, he wasn't explicit about it. They probably thought he had some kind of wicked, space-handbrake turn in mind to bait the Engineer into doing some lunar laps.
I got the impression they did, from the breezy reference to settling their bet on "the other side."

I'm okay with the three of them cashing in their chips to avert what they must've assumed would be the end of humanity. It's a rather convenient bit of altruism, but at least there's some rational motive. Unlike Professor Facefucked and his phallic friend in the cave. He's scared of aliens... unless they look like cocks! (and we need a Rage Zombie for later on)

I guess they could've made things less extraordinary by having String, after his long thoughtful consideration, go "fuck this shit nigga, sheeeit!" then prove he really was a "shit pilot" as Benedict Wong said by crashing into the croissant while trying to escape. :lol:
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Ah well. I just saw them as Tom Paris and Harry Kim type characters anyway. Only, in this case I hoped they'd die and they actually did. Why the fuck did that never happen in Voyager...

Edit: :lol:
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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BIL wrote: I'm okay with the three of them cashing in their chips to avert what they must've assumed would be the end of humanity. It's a rather convenient bit of altruism, but at least there's some rational motive. Unlike Professor Facefucked and his phallic friend in the cave. He's scared of aliens... unless they look like cocks! (and we need a Rage Zombie for later on)
Nah! It was a convenient bit of finish-off-the-rest-of-the-cast-quickly. Based on the characters in question, I don't believe altruism was high on their agenda, and I don't believe Rapace's "trust me please, kill yourselves" one liner would have been a clincher either.

Realistically they would have charted a collision course and set the thrusters accordingly, then everyone would have gotten back to the Hilton Hotel life pod and jettisoned with it. Unless, despite the massive technology they possess in being able to make their way accurately to a solar system a billion light years away, they could only rely on manual steering to ram something at 500 meters distance. :lol:
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Skykid wrote:Nah! It was a convenient bit of finish-off-the-rest-of-the-cast-quickly. Based on the characters in question, I don't believe altruism was high on their agenda, and I don't believe Rapace's "trust me please, kill yourselves" one liner would have been a clincher either.
Stringer argued forcefully for Holloway to be brought back onto the ship despite being infected with an unknown disease, and he also went down to the cargo bay personally to fight Rage Zombie despite it having killed several other men singlehandedly at that point. He's obviously not the type to overly prioritise his own safety over others'. He also came up with the theory that the moon was a bioweapons r&d facility housing some extremely bad shit. The character has the bare minimum of development needed to make his conveniently altruistic choice at the end of the film, when presented with the scenario of the Engineer heading straight for Earth with a cargo hold full of what he's concluded is lethal bioweaponry.

The other two can barely be referred to as characters, they're just cannon fodder who in this case happened to conveniently agree with Russell, who is apparently a shit pilot who needed their help to stop the croissant, hence their conveniently declining his offer to GTFO.

That this is all very convenient isn't being disputed by me, as you can tell from my post. ;]
Last edited by BIL on Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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BIL wrote: That this is all very convenient isn't being disputed by me, as you can tell from my post. ;]
Well we're agreed on that. I'm just thankful the absurdity of many of the plot devices didn't stop me from having a good time with the film. :)
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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SPOILER (as if there weren't enough in here already!)

Is the opening scene in the film meant to be the creation of mankind? I thought it was a sacrifice by the engineer whose DNA ends up in the bed of the ocean, disintegrates and then reforms? Since their DNA is the same as humans, it's the only relevance I could think of for the scene. Does anyone else know otherwise?
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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It's open to interpretation but that sounds about right.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Skykid wrote:SPOILER (as if there weren't enough in here already!)

Is the opening scene in the film meant to be the creation of mankind? I thought it was a sacrifice by the engineer whose DNA ends up in the bed of the ocean, disintegrates and then reforms? Since their DNA is the same as humans, it's the only relevance I could think of for the scene. Does anyone else know otherwise?
This is my take on it, given the film is called Prometheus. The first alien we see may either be a renegade or maybe the event is accidental. Why leave a marker to find the black goo though? Is this an inversion of the sentinel idea in 2001 or something else?

I'm glad you enjoyed the movie--I agree that I've been jonsing for some good sci-fi, and this is certainly better than what hollywood makes (though I don't think it is better than Inception if you want to start that shit up!) Ultimately I think it is a sci-fi B movie with super high production values. Seriously, there are parts I'm laughing at gleefully and I'm glad I saw it; but I don't think it is a terribly good film.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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CMoon wrote: This is my take on it, given the film is called Prometheus. The first alien we see may either be a renegade or maybe the event is accidental. Why leave a marker to find the black goo though? Is this an inversion of the sentinel idea in 2001 or something else?
2001 was how it felt to me. I didn't think it was accidental at all, it had a ritualistic nature: ship drops robed man off, discards robe to reveal Seth from SFIV, kneels down and sacrifices self to introduce DNA to eco system of planet.
That said, such a race could easily introduce DNA without sacrificing themselves lol, but everyone loves a good ritual.
I'm glad you enjoyed the movie--I agree that I've been jonsing for some good sci-fi, and this is certainly better than what hollywood makes (though I don't think it is better than Inception if you want to start that shit up!)
Don't want to start it up but I felt it was equal to Inception if that helps:
Skykid wrote:It was close to, but probably a touch tighter, than the Dark Knight; maybe equal to Inception and Sunshine, but a little under Moon. Better than Avatar by a fair chalk, and wipes the floor with the likes of In Time.
Both films have glaring issues, Inception does a better job of confusing you into not noticing them. I think Scott, when it comes right down to it, is a more accomplished artistic director than Nolan, and that shines through, but I wouldn't say either film had done anything significant to elevate itself above the other.
Ultimately I think it is a sci-fi B movie with super high production values. Seriously, there are parts I'm laughing at gleefully and I'm glad I saw it; but I don't think it is a terribly good film.
I thought it was good enough. I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't crushingly disappointed (something I've prepared myself for with everything since Transformers) it lingered in memory and, after Resurrection essentially eradicated any creative opportunities the Alien ethos had left, that Scott re-introduced an element of intrigue into the franchise. I think that was probably its biggest success.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Skykid wrote:It was close to, but probably a touch tighter, than the Dark Knight; maybe equal to Inception and Sunshine, but a little under Moon. Better than Avatar by a fair chalk, and wipes the floor with the likes of In Time.
How is Dark Knight even related?

Sunshine was godawful. I liked it better when it was a B movie called "Event Horizon." Sunshine was a watered down Event Horizon that replaced scares and horror with pretentiousness. I think when your movie is driven by such idiot details as "The manual controls to lower the CPU into the deadly coolant are beneath the deadly coolant (!) and so deep that you must completely immerse yourself to reach them," you haven't earned the right to be pretentious.

"In Time" was "Gattaca" with a smarter concept but dumber execution.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Mischief Maker wrote: Sunshine was godawful. I liked it better when it was a B movie called "Event Horizon." Sunshine was a watered down Event Horizon that replaced scares and horror with pretentiousness. I think when your movie is driven by such idiot details as "The manual controls to lower the CPU into the deadly coolant are beneath the deadly coolant (!) and so deep that you must completely immerse yourself to reach them," you haven't earned the right to be pretentious.

"In Time" was "Gattaca" with a smarter concept but dumber execution.
In Time was Bonnie & Clyde for farmyard animals.

I didn't mind Sunshine, I liked the concept. I'm a sucker for sci-fi and starved, and Boyle's usual visual/audio polish did it for me, even if some of the science was questionable... and it once again featured trained professional crewmen brawling inside of fifteen minutes (as you would expect to find on a mission to save mankind :roll: )
How is Dark Knight even related?
It's one of the only Hollywood movies in the last five years I can think of that was worth the price of the ticket. I'm just comparing it to the very small pot of recent commercial movies that hold any semblance of value for me - there are so few it's tough to think of examples.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Skykid wrote:
How is Dark Knight even related?
It's one of the only Hollywood movies in the last five years I can think of that was worth the price of the ticket. I'm just comparing it to the very small pot of recent commercial movies that hold any semblance of value for me - there are so few it's tough to think of examples.
Can't argue with that.

I still say the premise of "In Time," where money is literally an exchange of your life, is freaking brilliant. The impression I got from the trailers was that it took place in a future where medical technology got so good that everyone <I>could</I> live forever young and beautiful, so a "Logan's Run"-esque time economy had to be imposed. Nope. Everyone was genetically engineered to be plot devices and the movie blew its speculative fiction load in the first 20 minutes.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Mischief Maker wrote: I still say the premise of "In Time," where money is literally an exchange of your life, is freaking brilliant.
Too right, a concept of such enormous potential that it seduced me into the theatre to spend my hard earned cash, only to realise I'd once again been duped into paying for two hours of used toilet paper. :(

At least the chick was hot.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Moon is probably the best sci fi I've seen in a while, but I went into it not expecting a hell of a lot, and Sam Rockwell is arguably a better actor than anyone in any of the movies listed in this thread. I will give a hat tip to Ken Watanabe though, as he seems to deserve his breakout coming from a country that redefines awful acting.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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GaijinPunch wrote:Moon is probably the best sci fi I've seen in a while, but I went into it not expecting a hell of a lot, and Sam Rockwell is arguably a better actor than anyone in any of the movies listed in this thread. I will give a hat tip to Ken Watanabe though, as he seems to deserve his breakout coming from a country that redefines awful acting.
Sam Rockwell has been good in everything I've seen him in - probably best in Moon. He's a little limited in range, but always gives a solid performance.

And Ken Watanabe, I concur, is also the best Japanese actor I've seen cross the border in a good while. I had to do a google for a moment because I got confused with Hiroyuki Sanada, who was captain Kaneda in Sunshine and is exceptionally poor. He has a good face but he's totally wooden and expressionless when it comes to delivery of... well of anything. He was just as flat in Twilight Samurai.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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Look say what you want about about Ridley Scott but don't be talking jive with me about Hiroyuki Sanada.

Especially when he starred in one of the greatest ninja movies ever made.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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EmperorIng wrote:Look say what you want about about Ridley Scott but don't be talking jive with me about Hiroyuki Sanada.

Especially when he starred in one of the greatest ninja movies ever made.
He's not bad. I'm not going to dis him outright as it was on TV, but he was rather meh in Lost. I'm not too familiar with anything else with him other than one of the worst abominations to hit the screen: The Last Samurai.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

Post by blackoak »

Good summary of several conversation strands here, and a thoughtful review in its own right:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jun20 ... -j27.shtml
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

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EmperorIng wrote:Look say what you want about about Ridley Scott but don't be talking jive with me about Hiroyuki Sanada.

Especially when he starred in one of the greatest ninja movies ever made.
That may be, but he can't act.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

Post by dave4shmups »

I like to read articles on National Review sometimes, and this is a well-written review, although it DOES contain spoilers:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/30 ... h-goldberg

Like Goldberg writes, it makes no sense for the aliens who supposedly created us to send out Xenomporhs, rather then something else to wipe us out. And why not send them directly to Earth, instead of just waiting until colonists are sent out to LV-426?? And, I've heard, Scott will do sequels?

I was looking forward to this movie clarifying the origin of the Space Jockey, and the Xenomorphs, but it just sounds like a total mess that adds more confusion to the Alien franchise then anything else.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

Post by GaijinPunch »

dave4shmups wrote: I was looking forward to this movie clarifying the origin of the Space Jockey, and the Xenomorphs, but it just sounds like a total mess that adds more confusion to the Alien franchise then anything else.
Nobody will ever admit it, but I would wager a guess that the studio had him set it up for possible sequels, which would have been hard if it was simply Alien 0. Studios want something they can come back to with little risk.
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Re: Ridley Scott to direct prequel to Alien!!!!!!....

Post by Skykid »

dave4shmups wrote: I was looking forward to this movie clarifying the origin of the Space Jockey, and the Xenomorphs, but it just sounds like a total mess that adds more confusion to the Alien franchise then anything else.
Disagree. Looking at the movies alone, there's not much story to confuse beyond people landing on strange worlds, encountering hostile Alien species and fighting for survival. That's the Alien saga in a nutshell.

Prometheus can be taken as a dark sci-fi movie that explores the origin of mankind in a 2001 'advanced beings created us' way, and as long as you accept it's purely comic book fantasy, it works well enough.

On the other hand it titillates with possibilities about the origin of the Xenomorph without blowing its load. It doesn't confuse anything despite being massively ambiguous; which is preferable anyway as it maintains a sense of mystery. I'm glad Scott didn't decide he was going to give the audience a list of bullet point explanations, and instead focussed on the space jockey links.

It's much better to be left with curiosity about what might be than to know exactly what's what. Whereas Resurrection pretty much hit a brick wall, Prometheus has given the franchise new scope for horror sci-fi exploration.
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