XRGB-mini Framemeister

[fAbZ]

The optimization in wolfsoft's cables is that they use luminance (black & white signal) instead of composite video for RGB sync. On NTSC PS1/2 units this doesn't make a difference. On PAL units this helps to get rid of chroma patterns in solid colors.

The official Sony PS1 RGB cable, both the NTSC and the PAL one just use composite video.

The same mod can be done on the PS1/2 itself. It's just single pin bridged to another. After that you get the same results when using the official Sony RGB cables AND you get the proper switching voltage for RGB.

Ha ok, you can make a wiki with all you helpfull knowledges ! So the mod you advice is on the mainboard of my consoles ? I'm really annoying
I think, but i cant hard-modded my systems, they are all brand new and softmodded only.
But i can use rgb cable using composite sync, i would be 'plug & play' and still working great ....
Sorry for all, all knowledges are well hidden on the net, or i'm quasi blind

[Fudoh]

I'm really annoying

indeed, my friend, indeed.

[fAbZ]

I'm really annoying

indeed, my friend, indeed.

In fact, i'm just searching for the good cables without soldering something, just plug and play. Like a lot of peoples, so it can be usefulll for some readers

Ps: my ps2 do the same, black & white image whatever i try in console menu or scart at the back of my tv.
(Not enought hard plugged at the back of my ps2 the 1st try) and i read somewhere esle that most of rgb cable use C-sync ?
My tv is 50herz, i don't know if it can be important ....

[Fudoh]

and i read somewhere esle that most of rgb cable use C-sync ?

Playstation consoles don't output c-sync, just composite video and luminance. So that's your best solution for RGB without adding a sync stripper inside the console.

PS1 and PS2 output the same 12V switching voltage, so they behave the same.

[tfountas]

Hi all
My PAL snes I've modded for multi region and has a 60/50htz switch and PAL/NTSC switch.
Whenever I use the NTSC and 60htz, the picture breaks up and is fuzzy when using the PAL RGB scart cable and the xrgb-mini.
Using s-video direct to a TV it's fine
Any reason why this?
Would I need a NTSC RGB scart cable for this to work properly?
Thanks!

[Fudoh]

A NTSC RGB cable won't work on your SNES unit. I don't have a PAL or modded SNES, so somebody else has to comment on the compatibility issues.

[tfountas]

So I guess I will just have to wait for the RetronN 5 to come out and grab that.
Not worth going down the path of buying a NTSC SNES etc...

[BuckoA51]

Retron 5? Pah, that won't compare to the real thing, surely if you've spent the money on a Framemeister, finding a second hand Super Famicom is cheap and easy?

[tfountas]

Have spent too much time and money on these things.
A ntsc snes plus all the cables with delivery would cost about $150+ easily.
Retron 5 would be cheaper and much simpler. May even get to sell the framemeister.....

[tfountas]

Played with the synch level on the xrgb and fixed the picture for NTSC games. Problem solved!

[DJ Mike]

Just bought one of these now - looking forward to giving it a whirl.

I found a very old upscaler in my garage the other day - the CYP Presenter 1. It upscales to 1024x768 but it looks terrible! There's strange vertical banding across the whole screen. Suspect the XRGB-Mini will be a very substantial upgrade once I get my head round all the settings!

Suspect I'll be wanting to mod all my old consoles to allow NTSC too... Man, retro gaming is such a lot of effort!

EDIT: I gather having genuine Japanese/US NTSC consoles is better than modding PAL ones to run at 60Hz - I guess I'll find out soon enough. Do Japanese Megadrive and SNES cartridge slots fit and run PAL cartridges?

[Konsolkongen]

EDIT: I gather having genuine Japanese/US NTSC consoles is better than modding PAL ones to run at 60Hz - I guess I'll find out soon enough. Do Japanese Megadrive and SNES cartridge slots fit and run PAL cartridges?

Both need internal modification to run most games. Getting a JAP Mega Drive is definitely the way to go as the square cartridge slot allows for all types of carts.

[ruger]

I tested a X68000 XVI today with the XRGB Mini.
Booted into to Human68k and tested a few games.
The XRGB Mini detected the X68000 signal as 720x521p at 55.44Hz.
Did not try any 15kHz or 24kHz software.

To generate RGBS from RGBHV I used an Extron 160xi.

I simply could not get the Extron 192 to work with the X68000.
On the Extron 192 the signal lamp never changed from amber to green,
so it seems to me that it did not detect any input signal....

Unless anyone else has success with the X68000 and the Extron 192,
I would choose something other than the 192 if you plan to use it with a X68k.

[Fudoh]

The XRGB Mini detected the X68000 signal as 720x521p at 55.44Hz.

and that is correct ? Or does the X68k output something else ?

[ruger]

It also worked fine to convert the RGBS from the X68000 back into RGBHV with the Extron 160xi.

Right now I run:
X68000 --RGBHV--> Extron 160xi --RGBS--> Extron Matrix
Extron Matrix output #1 --RGBS--> XRGB Mini
Extron Matrix output #2 --RGBS--> Extron 160xi --RGBHV--> XPC-4

The XPC-4 seems to require VSYNC - either RGBSV (i.e. from Sync Strike) og RGBHV

[ruger]

The XRGB Mini detected the X68000 signal as 720x521p at 55.44Hz.

and that is correct ? Or does the X68k output something else ?

Should be 768x512p at 55Hz (at 31kHz). XPC-4 detects this correctly.

[fogueman]

Hi guys, i´ve hooked up my Ps2 with the Framemeister, via Scart rgb. Hdmi 720p with scanlines. I am very happy with the results. Looks very good to me.

Will I get any improvements if I use the component to d-terminal and force the ps2 games to 480p? What are the "ideal" settings for ps2 with the meister? i´ve seen the fagins review where he shows some options. The games I play most are 2.5D (Gradius V, Odin Sphere).

[BuckoA51]

Yes, 480p always looks better than 480i. Also remember that the majority of PS2 games are 480i native and therefore don't have scanlines anyway (though may still look kind of cool with them on as a 'novelty' in some cases).

for the recommended settings, please check the wiki http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Playstation_2

[fogueman]

yes I know they dont have scanlines (although they do have them on my trinitron crt) , but i just like scanlines in ps2 titles

Will try to go component and 480p, but im happy with the results right now, thanks buckoa51

[Smashbro29]

Been using this nearly every day for a few months, it's great for playing and it is excellent for recording and streaming but here are two issues that are really becoming a problem, four depending on how you look it:

Issue 1: Ineffective use of screen real estate/Profiles
The TV is a rectangle and the picture is usually a square, the issue is it's a smaller square. Why not stretch it out diagonally to take up as much space as possible without ruining the aspect ratio? Because on another system that'll look messed up, so what do we need? Multiple slots for presets, I know this is a common suggestion but damn it'd make this so much better.

When a game is fake widescreen and I need to set the mini to force 16:9 (Example: Wii) it has the same issue, although beyond the "stretch image that is pushed in" principle I don't know much about the nitty gritty of it so it may impossible to fix.

With so many systems needing such specific settings to set up right it really sucks there's no way to retain that it doesn't even save between input types forcing me to use whatever the default is, which looks great but I imagine it could look even better.

Issue #2: Resolution switching/booting up

I really miss hearing "SEGA". Because the mini is too slow to give me a picture. In Super Smash Bros on N64 it switches to 480i for the credits and reverts to 240p after the credits which really ruins the fun. There's a lot of examples but basically, it's just too slow to get going.

Any hopes for the new firmware? Is there new firmware? I remember there being one with HDMI passthrough.

[Fudoh]

the issue is it's a smaller square

The Mini preserves the underscan present on the source signal. That's currently the only way to get proper scanlines. What you want is a proper overscan adjustment feature, but this can only be done if Micomsoft changes the way scanlines are currently created. They could, but I doubt that they want.

[Smashbro29]

the issue is it's a smaller square

The Mini preserves the underscan present on the source signal. That's currently the only way to get proper scanlines. What you want is a proper overscan adjustment feature, but this can only be done if Micomsoft changes the way scanlines are currently created. They could, but I doubt that they want.

Interesting, I just thought they were being lazy.

But why aren't they at least centered?

[Fudoh]

I've never run into any situation where the picture was not perfectly centered.

[Smashbro29]

I've never run into any situation where the picture was not perfectly centered.

For real? It's never centered for me. It's always slightly off to one side or filling the top more than the bottom.

[Fudoh]

I swear to you. Never happened on my setup. It doesn't even make sense because the Mini essentially scales a 240p (or 480i/p) input to 1080p until it hits top and bottom. Underscan just gets preserved as black lines in the original source. I can't even think of anything why your picture wouldn't be perfectly centered.

[RGB32E]

I've never run into any situation where the picture was not perfectly centered.

For real? It's never centered for me. It's always slightly off to one side or filling the top more than the bottom.

Fudoh can swear all he wants, but H_POS set to 71 is pretty much center for me. That is in part due to centering the RGB NES and AV Famicoms I built require.

[DJ Mike]

Well, I got my Framemeister today and I must say I'm astounded - this thing gives a phenomenal picture!

Tried it out on my Japanese Saturn, my PAL Megadrive and my PAL Dreamcast so far - all 3 look stellar, although I think I need to experiment a bit to find the best deinterlacing setting for the Dreamcast. I will say this - unless the PAL Dreamcast has a better video chip than I thought, running games in 60Hz mode produces absolutely no stutter that I can see. Will be interesting to see if other systems produce any more stutter running at PAL60, but so far so good!

[ZellSF]

Well, I got my Framemeister today and I must say I'm astounded - this thing gives a phenomenal picture!

Tried it out on my Japanese Saturn, my PAL Megadrive and my PAL Dreamcast so far - all 3 look stellar, although I think I need to experiment a bit to find the best deinterlacing setting for the Dreamcast. I will say this - unless the PAL Dreamcast has a better video chip than I thought, running games in 60Hz mode produces absolutely no stutter that I can see. Will be interesting to see if other systems produce any more stutter running at PAL60, but so far so good!

Uh, PAL60 is 60hz, why would the XRGB-mini stutter in 60hz mode when receiving a 60hz input?

[BuckoA51]

Lots of PAL systems stutter when forced to 60hz because the video timings they output are that little bit off, but the Dreamcast is not affected by this problem. The PAL Megadrive however, is known to stutter when running in 60hz, but it also depends how tolerant your display is.

[ZellSF]

Lots of PAL systems stutter when forced to 60hz because the video timings they output are that little bit off, but the Dreamcast is not affected by this problem. The PAL Megadrive however, is known to stutter when running in 60hz, but it also depends how tolerant your display is.

Well that was sort of my point, the Dreamcast is 60hz native, not modded or anything. It's a 60hz source. No way it should stutter on the XRGB-mini in 60hz mode.