Deathsmiles IIX (Xbox 360) - GoD US/Can/Mex, Platinum JP

[Strider77]

I am.... disappointed with the visuals. I hope they get better or just switch over to hi res 2-D.... the ports of SH3 games look great in high res even with the filtered back grounds. Just wish they would high res the backgrounds and move forward with the 2D..... or get alot better at the 3D.

[Phellan Wolf]

I am.... disappointed with the visuals. I hope they get better or just switch over to hi res 2-D.... the ports of SH3 games look great in high res even with the filtered back grounds. Just wish they would high res the backgrounds and move forward with the 2D..... or get alot better at the 3D.

I guess that from now on they're going to follow the 3D fashion. It is cheaper, faster and you get more results with less work. I wish they stick with 2D too but.....
Anyway let's enjoy the game that is the most important thing.

[chempop]

I guess that from now on they're going to follow the 3D fashion. It is cheaper, faster and you get more results with less work. I wish they stick with 2D too but.....

I don't know a whole lot about graphics programing, can someone explain why 2D backgrounds demand more time from programers. I would think it would be the opposite.

[Strider77]

I'm having a hard time enjoying it due to this to be honest. It's visuals are such a step back from 1.

[MaxD23]

I'm having problems getting the dlc to unlock on my uk profile,is it a region thing?

[8 1/2]

I played through the Extra mode this morning...

[chempop]

Strider, I think once you give the game more time it'll be enjoyable. The first time I popped it in I tried Arcade on defaults and almost puked at the TV, but I was in too much shock at how less than half of the screen was actually game-screen. Thank god I could at least enlarge it enough to only loose a few inches from the border, I just moved my TV closer to make up for the difference. Sure the graphics aren't as pretty, but the gameplay is better than the first game, and the level design, bosses and patterns are about as good imho. I'm curious what type of display you have it running on.

[neojma]

It might not deliver the nuanced scoring systems many of us love, but I've found the Arrange modes discussed above a lot of fun as novelties.

I know it's "just an iPhone game", but the Galuda II iPhone mode is really fun. Great mechanic, and it cleverly actually uses the hardware effectively (Kakusei freezes your ship, during the gem countdown you can destroy bullets by tapping them, exiting Kakusei turns all bullets on the screen into medals and is key to scoring in this mode). One of the better Arrange modes I've seen, really.

Even the PCB version Mushihimesame arguably contains arrange modes, even though they are a standard option even on the "original" arcade release. But I don't see many people complaining that Mushi Maniac mode is shit. Maybe it's because it's such a good Arrange mode, maybe it's PCB elitism making it acceptable, but it's still an arrange mode that's good.

I have a soft spot for the utterly ridiculous 360 DOJ:BLX Arrange mode too, but that is indeed just a novelty.

[chempop]

ut I don't see many people complaining that Mushi Maniac mode is shit. Maybe it's because it's such a good Arrange mode, maybe it's PCB elitism making it acceptable, but it's still an arrange mode that's good.

I don't think many would considering Maniac mode an arrange mode. Mushi was a different structure of difficulty settings, rather than easy, medium, hard, very hard, it used the three different versions to replace this system... it's what makes the Mushi series so brilliant.

The PS2 version of Mushihimesama actually does have an Arrange mode that lets you start with 6 option shots and, auto-bombing, and truelast boss, and no continues. I think it only used the Maniac bullet settings. It gets hated on, but I actually think it's a pretty solid version, maybe because it's the only version I can 1CC

[dan76]

Because the graphics in this game are so fugly I'm also finding it less enjoyable to play. However, I'm a huge fan of the first game, I think the graphics are some of the best I've seen in a shooter - so many little details that have character, really lush feel to the colours and design. This game is cold (and not just 'cause it's xmas) - bland 3D textures are charmless... It's weird to think of it as a sequel because visually it looks like a demo. If most of the graphics were converted to 2D sprites I still don't think they'd be a patch on the original designs - those chess pieces at the end... At least the scoring is good.

As to Mushi (1)- I always thought of manic was the main mode...

[MrPopo]

I guess that from now on they're going to follow the 3D fashion. It is cheaper, faster and you get more results with less work. I wish they stick with 2D too but.....

I don't know a whole lot about graphics programing, can someone explain why 2D backgrounds demand more time from programers. I would think it would be the opposite.

2D backgrounds don't require more from programmers, but from the artists. When you make something 3D you make a single model and then you can rotate it in code. With 2D you need to have your artists create every variation. There are software techniques to manipulate 2D graphics on the fly (SNES Mode 7 comes to mind) but in this day and age it doesn't look too good.

[ncp]

when would you need to rotate/manipulate the background of a 2d shooter... ?

[Shuurin]

Because the graphics in this game are so fugly I'm also finding it less enjoyable to play.

I'm having a hard time enjoying it due to this to be honest. It's visuals are such a step back from 1.

The graphics aren't the best but if it is seriously impeding your game play or enjoyment of the game you may need to put down the arcade stick and go play some nameless AAA title if graphics are that important. It is a transitional art style if cave releases Daifukatsu looking like this, then hell we might have something to complain about since that would imply Cave is happy themselves with their games looking like late ps1 early ps2 games (if its cave and not 5pb doing to port) in the era of 360 and ps3. The crt resolution issue, there should have been a few more options for that. Arcade mode lacking a scoreboard in that mode is puzzling. Makes me feel they spent too much time with extra mode and not giving arcade mode some love.

[neojma]

I don't think many would considering Maniac mode an arrange mode. Mushi was a different structure of difficulty settings, rather than easy, medium, hard, very hard, it used the three different versions to replace this system... it's what makes the Mushi series so brilliant.

Mushi Maniac adds a chaining system that isn't even present in Original. I honestly can't see how this is less of an Arrange mode than the other Cave extra modes (say, the difference between Death Smiles and DS 1.1). The only difference is the Mushi Original/Maniac/Ultra modes were there from the start and not added in a later PCB revision or console port. I see the PS2 Mushi Arrange mode as just yet another arrangement.

In fact, even many games which just claim different "difficulty levels" (easy/normal/hard) are essentially just different arrangements. When you start changing enemy placement, scoring systems, chaining mechanics... any of those changes are essentially remixes of the same game. Whether you call it a difficulty level, a new mode, or whatever... it's still the same game engine and assets presented differently. Which is the same thing an "Arrange" mode is.

[ncp]

no, an arrange mode is a version of the game that's not in the original/arcade release, often made by different people than the original.

view it however the hell you want but there's still a clear defined difference

[MachineAres 1CC]

adversity: you're a dipshit.

Anyway, I used lock shot In the first game a lot to survive some of the more complex patterns because it slows down movement and gives you more of a chance to concentrate on dodging instead of worrying about whether or not you're hitting the boss or not.

Meanwhile the lock shot in DS2 is just about hitting background enemies you can't normally hit and getting counters up, it doesn't slow your movement and it doesn't stay locked on for more than a few seconds.

[spadgy]

Strider, I think once you give the game more time it'll be enjoyable.

This is certainly the case for me. I'm even falling for X-Mode properly now. Playing everything on level 3 (or every stage but one on level 3) make EX and the final stage crazy fun!

[dan76]

@Shuurin - Yeah, I will go and play a mindless AAA title... like the original Deathsmiles - read the post. And are you seriously saying that Cave aren't happy with the visuals? Of course they're happy with them, would they willingly release a game that they think looks crap.

Isn't this part of the fear - that Cave are really happy with their new 3D direction, and yet to most of us it's a step backwards. We'll know for sure with their next new arcade title.

[BulletMagnet]

would they willingly release a game that they think looks crap.

If they think people will still buy it, why not? Less time spent on visuals equals lower development costs, after all.

[MrPopo]

when would you need to rotate/manipulate the background of a 2d shooter... ?

Let's say you're Axelay or R-Type III.

[Shuurin]

@Shuurin - Yeah, I will go and play a mindless AAA title... like the original Deathsmiles - read the post. And are you seriously saying that Cave aren't happy with the visuals? Of course they're happy with them, would they willingly release a game that they think looks crap.

Isn't this part of the fear - that Cave are really happy with their new 3D direction, and yet to most of us it's a step backwards. We'll know for sure with their next new arcade title.

I think its rather rare a developer is completely happy with anything they release. There is always room for improvement, for the time being I am sure as an experimental step Cave is rather pleased with what they have created in the visual department. Given they only had a set amount of time to create visually something they lack experience in. Now with that bit of experience I can see them making the 3D visuals more varied and easier on the eyes in their next title. What I was getting at is if this development cost reducing plan of theirs to go 3D becomes stagnant and does not improve after this. I might cry foul on Cave's part, even if I have little time to marvel at the background when I am trying to swim through bullet hell. The game in the end is either fun or not, if you need graphics at only the highest of production values to enjoy yourself, then this game might not be for you. For me so long as they don't get in the way of game mechanics I could really give a hoot

would they willingly release a game that they think looks crap.

If they think people will still buy it, why not? Less time spent on visuals equals lower development costs, after all.

Just like any business. Who would have ever thought it possible

[ncp]

when would you need to rotate/manipulate the background of a 2d shooter... ?

Let's say you're Axelay or R-Type III.

aaaaaaaaand that's relevant to Cave's development costs how? I honestly doubt 2d backgrounds are any more expensive for cave than 3d.

[8 1/2]

Kind of a slow week outside of Mario Galaxy 2, but quite nice to see a Cave game crack the top 10 in Japan. I don't recall any of the other Cave releases except perhaps the first DS doing the same.

01. Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii) - 340,000 / NEW
02. Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Masou Kishin - The Lord of Elemental (DS) - 81,000 / NEW
03. Soccer Tsuku DS: World Challenge 2010 (DS) - 50,000 / NEW
04. Medarot DS: Kabuto / Kuwagata (DS) - 50,000 / NEW
05. Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 2 (DS) - 34,000 / 1,099,000
06. Lost Planet 2 (PS3) - 34,000 / 118,000
07. Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (PSP) - 25,000 / 698,000
08. World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Aoki Samurai no Chousen (PS3) - 22,000 / 79,000
09. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii) - 16,000 / 3,860,000
10. Death Smiles IIX (Xbox 360) - 16,000 / NEW

[lawnspic]

I know most people here have beef with the visuals, but i think this game looks just fine. What other games in this genre can you compare. I cant think of any modern shmup that looks leaps and bounds better. Sure if you want to compare some recent XBLA arena shooters or some HD remake's then yes they look better. It seems we have all been spoiled by this generation of hardware capabilities to hold high expectations for new shmups. Now if people have a preference for 2D vs 3D then there is no discussion as that is individual taste. To say the game looks horrid is exaggerated IMO.

[ex.machina]

Kind of a slow week outside of Mario Galaxy 2, but quite nice to see a Cave game crack the top 10 in Japan. I don't recall any of the other Cave releases except perhaps the first DS doing the same.
10. Death Smiles IIX (Xbox 360) - 16,000 / NEW

Well, to be in the top ten with 16k units doesn't speak for a strong sales week overall.

[Strider77]

I'm curious what type of display you have it running on.

I have a Sony HD CRT, it does 480p and 1080i naitively, I can do the arcade mode fine and full screen. I played x mode on the 3rd difficulty setting and I am having more fun with it. But I do think it looks worse than the 1st... just disappointed with the step back in the visuals but I don't hate the game. I'll confess I wind up liking the games that deliver the visuals and gameplay the most.... that's understandable right?

It's just that cave's 2D outdoes this 3D to me so far... and even when comparing this with something like Gradius 5.... G5 looks better. If you just bumped up G5's visuals to HD and nothing else it would look way better than this. But... for a 3D shooter it's ok looking. Some parts I'm ok with, some parts I don't like. That snake level is really underwhelming and so are some of the enemies. It was the knee jerk reaction to caves past titles ect.

To me deathsmiles, futari, well most of the SH3 games look better in low res or their hi res 360 ports over this. Like I said though parts of DS2 look ok to me, but there are some parts that disappoint me also looks wise.

What are the main differences on scoring between x mode and arcade (besides the bugs)?

you may need to put down the arcade stick and go play some nameless AAA title if graphics are that important.

or almost any other cave title.... I'm not that harsh, it's just a step back ect.

[chempop]

I'd be shocked if they start making their verts with 3D poly backgrounds, haven't they always used single layer art for the level maps? What does DDP-DFK have for backgrounds? I can't even see them in replays because there is so much carnage!

Hori's often take a bit more art and programing for multiple-scrolling 2D backgrounds. I still think that the 3D takes more time and money to produce. I give them credit for trying something new, and I bet in time they will have a great handle on making the 3D look really nice. I have a feeling that the main team at Cave asked themselves, "what could we do to improve our games?" they probably noticed that their style usually is lacking the visual depth that many other great shmups have and incorporate with the gameplay.

[TaygetaVendetta]

I suck at SHMUPs in general and was able to make it to the tail end of the first half of the final stage (EX Carnival included) on level3 difficulty on my first playthrough of level3 diff. Once I figure out how to beat the Carnival bear boss without bombing all the time and not panicking on the edges of the rotating rocks in the ruins, I can see myself 1CCing it. Follett is either broken or something is wrong. I should not be able to get this far so soon! Granted I am still enjoying the game immensely.

I still think that the 3D takes more time and money to produce.

Vs 2D sprites? I wouldn't think so. If you're bored you can google for articles talking about SNK's King of Fighters XII and how much that cost to make, sticking with 2D sprites versus going 3D. Granted the resolution/size of the sprites for that game are much larger than what you'd see in a Cave game, but I believe the same logic would apply. I'm not a technical person, but wouldn't getting a 3D model to animate be a much faster process than drawing frames one by one?

[legztec]

I'm no expert but fidled with 3dmax for a while but i think 3d modeling/texturing then animating is much less time consuming than making every frame of animation to make something look fluidly.
On top of that 3d is more flexible in animation once you got the basics done.

[MrPopo]

Follett is either broken or something is wrong.

I'm pretty sure that Follett's broken. It might be that character strength is proportionate to their cleavage.