From Software 'n such

[Blinge]

Holy shit. Despatche in my main haunt!!

Long time no see, bud.

I've only played AC1 and 4A
started with 4A years ago and enjoyed 1 much more.

[Despatche]

The divide between classic AC and AC4 is utterly vast. Some people just absolutely love classic AC, some people just absolutely love AC4, and utterly hate the opposite. I'm hoping that AC6 will be somewhere in-between. But really, I just want people to play ACV more... a rerelease of the ACV games would be very cool. Proper ports of any of these old games would be cool, let's be real. Oh well.

[Sumez]

For how much the AC fanbase seems to be unable to agree on what approach is best for the series (outside of most of them hating on 5), no matter where I look, AC3 really does seem to be the most universally liked game, often forming a sort of unison with Silent Line, and this thread only confirms the same.
On that note, I just finally secured myself a copy. Had to import from the US because the game is practically non-existing in Europe (two copies on eBay, one is sealed) and a lot more expensive here. So even with customs and shipping more than doubling the price, importing still turned out much cheaper. I tried some first-gen AC a couple of years ago and it wasn't able to grab me, so this could form a decent second attempt.

[Despatche]

I should probably clarify some things, that post was kinda rushed. For example, OP-INTENSIFY is weird because you have to also unlock every ability it gives you by doing certain tasks while you have it equipped, and it takes a lot of option slots to equip. Later games do not have Human Plus or OP-INTENSIFY at all, though Gen N gives you the Human Plus blade beams as a standard mechanic. Also, Last Raven is fuck hard, but anyone who's even heard the name knows that.

Armored Core 3, Silent Line, and Last Raven all have PSP ports. (RIP Nexus, I guess they didn't want to try porting the entirety of disc 2.) These PSP ports are... alright, I guess. They made a lot more sense back in the day. There are a few extra parts (from those Brave New World stories being published around that time), and you can transfer AC3 Portable or SL Portable data into LR Portable, but I'd sooner recommend the originals as far as overall experience goes.

If it helps, here are the major complaints about each gen I've heard over the years:

Gen 1: "too old"
Gen 2: "not 'dark' enough"
Gen 3: <absolutely fucking nothing>
Gen N: "too hard"
Gen 4: "too crazy"
Gen 5: "don't make me team up"

I've literally never seen anyone get genuinely upset about the AC3 games. I mean, anyone can pretend to get upset about anything, but there's no low-hanging fruit when it comes to the AC3 games.

[Lethe]

A few years ago I played through all the AC PS2 games in sequence, having played AC2, AA and AC3 before then. Any of those or Silent Line could realistically be a favorite. Nexus is a mess and I don't understand why it'd be picked over any of the others. The way it's balanced is nonsense, it's piss-easy once you start building your AC around that (non-)balance, the maps are boring and you see the same ones over and over and over. I also remember it looking like shit for some reason. The second disc is the best part of it.

I get the complaint that Last Raven's balancing is overtuned (irrespective of its difficulty). IIRC despite the attention given it's still a bit broken because middleweight ACs end up both more heavily armed and faster than lights, thanks to how the weight system's set up. I don't really have a problem with the difficulty besides a couple of the final bosses being really, really cheaty beyond anything else in the series.

[Angry Hina]

Alright folks, time for the Armored Core breakdown. Ignore all reviews of these games, they're always intentionally low scores puked out by idiots. It's like Musou scores but so much worse.

Gen 1 is the PS1 games. The exact sequence of events is unclear, and it's believed that Master of Arena is meant to be at least a partial remake of the first game. I'm not sure what's going on with Project Phantasma, it feels like a prequel story though, or maybe it's just totally a gaiden. Either way, later gens were more civilized with the sequence of events.
[*]Armored Core is a solid singleplayer experience. It's commonly recommended for this, and it's the most thorough singleplayer of gen 1. You can play multiplayer in it, but you want the next game for that. If I remember right, you will need to carry over Human Plus from this game.
[*]Project Phantasma is the game that introduced the Arena mode everyone likes so much. However, it also has a smaller singleplayer to make up for it. That aside though, it's also the best-playing of the gen 1 games competitively, due to having the overall best balance, as well as a very useful movement glitch (inherited from the previous game) that doesn't break the game and actually makes a lot of strategies more viable.
[*]Master of Arena is a great example of doing too much. It has a hilarious amount of singleplayer content (specifically, an entire disc of Arena fights), but there are a lot of silly parts and they removed the great movement glitch. Seriously, fuck the Finger. Unsurprisingly, this is also the game that commonly gets recommended. Dumb.

Gen 2 is the first set of PS2 games. They are intended to be distant sequels to the PS1 games, after all the old corporations were destroyed, and new corporations come in that take the fighting to Mars.
[*]Armored Core 2 is an excellent balance of Missions and Arena. Great as a singleplayer game. Multiplayer would be okay but the next game was made to fix most issues; this will become a thing going forward. As with AC1, you will need to carry over Human Plus from this game. Supposedly, there's a bug where the maximum Human Plus level doesn't work properly in this game (supposed to have been fixed in Another Age), but I've got no idea what's really going on there.
[*]Another Age is a love letter to Mission enjoyers and hate mail to Arena enjoyers. It has the absolute biggest set of Missions in any Armored Core game ever, multiple games worth. It's also one of the best multiplayer games.

Gen 3 is the second set of PS2 games, and is meant as a reboot. The setting resembles the gen 1 setting a lot, and feels almost like a genuine remake. These seem to be the most well-liked of the entire series, because of just how appropriately unsettling they are, while also having an excellent balance of all things people like about Armored Core.
[*]Armored Core 3 is simply very good, while having a few competitive issues that were fixed in the next game, just like Armored Core 2. This gen does not have Human Plus, and you instead unlock a cool cheat part called OP-INTENSIFY when you beat the game normally, which does similar things. Probably the better way of doing this, the Human Plus unlock is kinda annoying.
[*]Silent Line is simply one of the best games in the series, if not the best. Everything good about AC3, plus adjustments to multiplayer to elevate it to the top.

Around this point there was a game called Formula Front. This game has absolutely nothing to do with any other Armored Core game and is meant as an entirely unique take on the concept altogether. Play it or don't, it's a pretty strange game. There are many different versions of it, and I'm no longer sure which one is "best". Possibly the PSP game called Formula Front International...?

The next gen is commonly thought of as gen 3, but is largely a unique generation with its own gameplay changes and aesthetic. I believe the name "Gen N" gets thrown around on the internet. It is a sequel to gen 3, taking place about 50 years or so after. War never changes, though. Crazy shit happens in gen N.
[*]Nexus is a polarizing game. Funny enough, it's disliked for the reasons people liked Master of Arena. It's similar to Master of Arena in various ways, including entirely too much content (this time, an entire disc of remakes of older missions, especially from ye old PS1 games), and some very funny ideas of balance. Supposedly, the Nexus we got was an entirely different project from a previous game that was closer to AC3. Why the previous project was shitcanned is a mystery, but I'm gonna assume dumb company politics as usual.
[*]Nine Breaker is... everyone hates this game, but it's far more like Another Age and Silent Line in that it's a very good competitive game. People say they hate it because it has zero Mission content, yet nobody seemed to mind that Another Age had zero Arena content. It's also the ULTIMATE tutorial on classic Armored Core. Instead of Missions, you have extremely elaborate training stages. You get good at these, and you'll have a better idea on how to play every PS1/PS2 AC game than literally anyone who hasn't. Some people are starting to realize what Nine Breaker is really about, now, finally, but it's still going to take a long time for anyone to really care.
[*]Last Raven is even more like Master of Arena than Nexus. Nexus has the sheer content, Last Raven has the "doing too much" with the balance. Sadly, because everyone hates Nine Breaker, everyone says they like Last Raven instead as the best Gen N game, just like Master of Arena. Dumb 2.

Gen 4, if the above gen N is not already gen 4 enough for you, is when the series becomes completely different. This is full on head ass super robot nonsense now. Obviously, this is a total reboot, and is about as far removed from the gen 1/3 setting as you can get.
[*]Armored Core 4 is exactly like Armored Core 2 and 3, except with the wildly different gameplay of gen 4.
[*]For Answer is the game everyone plays competitively. It remains the one game people really care about, probably because it's always had actual netplay while also being P2P. There are still For Answer gods out there to this day.

Gen 5 is the gen everyone loves to hate, even more so than gen N. This is because of a combination of factors that don't really have anything to do with the game's quality: it attempts to return to the pre-gen 4 style, which was seen as a "regression"; and it was primarily a team-based game, which remains an utterly hated concept. See: people constantly trying to be lone wolves in every team-based game ever. In particular, these games had a strong online focus, which was not as liked then as it is now. The game itself is great, of course. It's a distant sequel to gen 4, in a time when everything has gone right back to gen 1/3-level shittery.
[*]Armored Core V is exactly like Armored Core 4 with the gen 5 gameplay, etc etc. The singleplayer is a bit lean, but it's about like Project Phantasma or something.
[*]And then Verdict Day is the game people play for multiplayer. Amazingly it's still up, but I imagine it'll get taken down when AC6 comes out. Shame. Verdict Day has more singleplayer though.

Daemon X Machina absolutely needs to get mentioned here. Some former From folks worked on this game in lieu of an actual AC6. This first game really feels like what AC6 would turn into, it's kinda like AC4 but a bit more reined in. This game has an excellent PC port on Steam, be sure to check it out. ALL that DLC is cosmetic, don't worry about ANY of it unless you actually want it.

And now, after 10000000000000000000000000 years, we have an actual gen 6 coming. Is it an actual reboot? Is it a distant successor to some previous game, in the most cameo-of-cameos way possible? Who knows.
[*]Fires of Rubicon is also the first game of a gen to have a subtitle. Maybe we're in the era of one-game gens, finally? So far the game appears to be similar to gen 4, but reined in a bit. Still looks like a crazy character action game though, just like AC4.

There's also a sequel to Daemon X Machine in development, Titanic Scion. Not sure when it's coming or if it'll even actually release at this point, with AC6 coming. Seems to be pretty far in development though. Since AC6 is coming out in fucking August, and they only showed off Titanic Scion last month, this will probably be a while, hopefully after all the hype for AC6 has calmed down.

So that's about 25~26 years of WOW!! COOL ROBOT!!!. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Great post. And because I've played many of the games myself, Id like to add some things:
Gen1
I was very surprised, how well made the games were as their first attempt and that the mission designs and how intense the fights felt, surpasses sometimes the newer games of Gen2 and 3. The final mission of AC1 was kinda hard for my all purpose reverse joint AC but felt jet very rewarding. I really liked the focussed story line of Project Phantasma and hope to see something like that again. Oh yes, I like the colours. They are often more bold without loosing atmosphere.
(whats the movement glitch you talked about?)

Gen2
I at first was really dissapointed. AC2 starts super boring and feels bland and slow. The graphics are better but also more clean and bland. Another big problem was for me the PAL version I played. This one misses the 60 Hz mode which adds to the kinda boring feel. But I liked the (underepresented) Mars setting and the Leos Klein story arc.
Another Age makes everything a bit better but couldnt catch me whith the story. There is no Arena but you have many Arena like 1 on 1 battles with AC Pilots so its more that it puts story and Arena missions together and not so much that it misses Arena entirely.

Gen3
Played just a bit AC3 so far. looksand feels a tiny bit more advanced but I can not say much more about it

"Gen N"
not played so far

Gen 4
for Answer was my first AC and I wasnt a big fand of the extreme Air combat focus back then. But I played it about 60 hours I guess, which is more as any other AC game. I loved the cinematics, the soundtrack and the drama. Looking now back to it gives me the feeling, that they really did something right

Gen 5
Love the idea of the ground focussed combat and that it feels so heavy and looks so dark. What I dont like so much is the the paper, stone, scissor system of the weapons and the armor. I found it nearly impossible to build a general purpose AC. And the atmosphere again couldnt catch me like ACfA could.

DXM:
looks great but I havent played it that long. I thought the controls and skills were a bit complicated but my biggest problem whith this game are the stupid one dimensional anime characters with its stupid one dimensional dialogues. Couldnt stand it for more than 5-7 hours I guess.

I have a general question about AC by the way: how does the pre AC4 multyplayer scene work? You and others write often about competitive AC play but how has this organized whithout network capabilities, internet or an arcade scene? Havent found that much video material of this on youtube. Just found one channel whith a lot of Last raven Videos so I thought this would be the most widely played Pre AC4 game...

Ignore all reviews of these games, they're always intentionally low scores puked out by idiots. It's like Musou scores but so much worse.

By the way, I've written Reviews of AC1 and 2 for those who are interested (and can read german ) or want to see cool screenshots
https://www.nexgam.de/games/2017/Sep/07 ... mored-Core
https://www.nexgam.de/games/2018/Nov/06 ... red-Core-2

Of course Despatche is right anyway (its true for most gameplay focussed games) but I had to give AC2 a low score because of the in many cases stronger Gen1 games.

[Lander]

Decided to try out King's Field 2 (i.e. KF USA, curse the numbering split) and man, there's nothing like going straight from PRESS START to being dropped straight into a hostile world with no explanation, fanfare, or guardrails.

Only had chance to wander around a bit and find the first save, but it certainly has that signature From feel - I died to the sea within 30sec, and to a giant squid shortly after

[Blinge]

Ah man.. first KF2 play ?
that's a special experience, enjoy!

[Lander]

Yep, first proper brush with the series at large.

Really enjoying further adventures into the opening area - lots of nice little spokes to make the player feel accomplished while cobbling together their starting gear, and nifty secrets for the observant.
I've just reached the point where the lost-as-fuck vibes start to kick in somewhere around the second village and mine, with a couple of mysterious key items in tow.

Pleasantly surprised at the combat - it's fairly perfunctory, but does a good job of keeping things interesting and dangerous with encounter and enemy design.
The pirate spear guys are the highlight so far; they've an interesting you-zig-i-zag trick to their AI that makes for some fun jousting before the fatal stunlock.

Getting dumped directly back to square one on death is great as well. Bit annoying to do the slow memory card load every time, but there's a sense of distance evoked by delving too deep into the underworld, getting immolated by something, and then waking up naked on that dim shoreline again.

[Sumez]

I died to the sea within 30sec, and to a giant squid shortly after

Certified first KF2 moment!
Did you find the chest with the skeleton behind a hidden door? This is mandated King's Field stuff.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Only had chance to wander around a bit and find the first save, but it certainly has that signature From feel - I died to the sea within 30sec, and to a giant squid shortly after

We've all been there! Or falling from the staircase in the nearby tower as you try to work out how not to accidentally throw yourself off it.

Getting dumped directly back to square one on death is great as well. Bit annoying to do the slow memory card load every time, but there's a sense of distance evoked by delving too deep into the underworld, getting immolated by something, and then waking up naked on that dim shoreline again.

Yeah, it's something that's been lost from games with rapid respawning checkpoint systems, a feeling of deaths carrying more "weight" to them makes that progress more meaningful.

[Lander]

The adventure has well and truly taken off - I started taking notes, figured out fast travel and how to reliably refill magic, found the item descriptions (bravo to that piece of design ), and have manipulated the economy into letting me have good gear. Smashing RPG upcurve.
Starting to taste the From interconnectedness too now I have an ample supply of keys. And I do believe it's only going to get better, if the conspicuous JAMMED LOCKED WON'T BUDGE doors dotted around are what I think they are.

And, most unexpectedly, KF2 seems to be scratching the "man, I wish La Mulana but 3D and a bit less obtuse" itch I've had for a while now.
It doesn't quite have the artifice, but the overall structure of delving into the underworld with periodic returns to the surface to recoup, all while powering up and collecting interesting items and keys, is just the ticket.

Even better that there's a whole series plus sister titles to look forward to - a rare and pleasing instance of discovering some of the super good stuff that you know is out there somewhere.

Did you find the chest with the skeleton behind a hidden door? This is mandated King's Field stuff.

I did! Spied it as soon as I found the pirate's map. Bit of a surprise to find a skeleton in such a safe place seeing how dangerous they are at the start - would have been a nasty shock if I'd been wallhumping from the get go
I noticed that the fisherman got some new dialogue at some point hinting about secrets containing something terrible too - nice touch.

We've all been there! Or falling from the staircase in the nearby tower as you try to work out how not to accidentally throw yourself off it.

That whole section is great. Nautical tightrope walking under fire, terrifying narrow corners, pretty setpiece, and double treasure! All the more tense for the player not having their tank legs yet.
With stuff like that and cheeky "mind the hole" signs behind pit traps you have to sprint over, I daresay the locomotion design has a sense of the knowing wink about it.

[Stevens]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned it/played the demo (I didn't) - but Lies of P is the real fucking deal. Watched 20 minutes of it. Sold.

If the first area is any indication this is the closest were ever going to get to BB 2.

[Blinge]

caught that.
thought it looked rad

[KAI]

Damn, some people apparently already tried AC6 and the opinion is not good at all. They are also saying the music is super lame compared to the previous titles.
Seems like fromsoft really turned this game into mech souls after all.

Gameplay preview on yt scheduled for tomorrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDjyestr4Y

[Blinge]

ah.. Who played it? what's the source?


Anyway.. I made this King's Field Iceberg. Enjoy..



(in a few months i'm gonna disseminate it when i'm ready to make a vid explaining )

[Lander]

Food for thought, nay, a banquet for thought

Leon dies - Checkmate Fromsoft, I sold the Jail Key to Celffy for a handful of pennies hours ago. Can't die if he's safe and sound inside a cell, or so I assume
I wonder if the Big Mine Softlock is related to the Gates; I've found at least three places where KF2 pulls the old Hope You Have Fast Travel trick, most often to hide a Water Crystal.

Going to finish it up today, I think - assuming that the very-final-feeling boss rush area isn't a fakeout for Act 2.

Damn, some people apparently already tried AC6 and the opinion is not good at all. They are also saying the music is super lame compared to the previous titles.
Seems like fromsoft really turned this game into mech souls after all.

Gameplay preview on yt scheduled for tomorrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDjyestr4Y

Just caught that live, and it didn't give me any mech souls doomer vibes. If anything I'd say they purposefully showed more traditional AC stuff - no sword combos, more box-dodging autoaim gunplay, a comfortably maximalist UI.
Lots more action this time, which is nice, though they still seem to be highlighting some big zones without many enemies in them, I suppose to show off the scale of the mission zones.

[KAI]

No minimap, and huge enviroments full of half asleep enemies is a no-no for me, knowing in this game you are not using an OP machine like in 4A, which needed a lof of zakos to highlight that game's power fantasy.
I really dont like what I've seen so far tbh, I seriously think this middle ground between the old AC and new Fromsoft style could alienate both fandoms and make the game sell like shit (compared to the soulsborne titles).

ah.. Who played it? what's the source?

Some people from the biggest ac discord claimed they saw or played the game this weekend, but who knows if it was true. The music on that gameplay video was crap as they claimed tho.

Edit:
Iron Píneapple and VaatiVidya also made vids after playing a demo of the game including a few missions
https://youtu.be/m5cxXmbSIks
https://youtu.be/1c1crLkr56E

Vaati's vid at least make it look like a lot of fun.

[Blinge]

I'd listen to vaati.

Iron pineapple i wouldn't trust to tell me the sky is blue

[Blinge]

Food for thought, nay, a banquet for thought

Leon dies -

Bahahah.. to quote the old JoJo meme.
Leon Dies in part 3.

(not really)

As for the softlock. Yeah it's possible not only to lock yourself in the big mine, you can also SAVE THE GAME there and completely fuck yourself. if you don't have fast travel or the MP to do it, or other means.. you're done for. and your save is done too.

[Lander]

Finished up KF2 - smashing game.

Love the way it prefaces the credits with a showcase of top-tier magic and secrets to tempt you into coming back for another go, which I'll certainly be doing. In traditional fashion, this first run was a somewhat intentional idiot baby affair after realizing I'd locked myself out of Leon - save nobody, finish the game in blissful ignorance - so I have unfinished business to attend after exploring the rest of the series.

I rather fancy doing a pseudo-challenge run with a full set of dark armor, since it seems pretty strong if you're willing to put up with all the inconvenient debuffs.

Rewatching the KF2 Magic Only run was seriously eye-opening. You can jump the bridge at the start? ...I DIDN'T PICK UP THE SKULL KEY?! FFFFFF unfinished business indeed!
And I'm still baffled by some of the chests (i.e. the very first one) that seem to require a key I never found.

As suspected, the game can be broken wide open by someone with knowledge of the world layout and rhombus key system. It's cool to see such a different route through the game; I avoided Central Village and the Big Mine for ages after getting blasted near the treasury, so ended up cleaning out much of the early game through sheer attrition.

I wonder, which KF-or-adjacent should I play next?

AC EDIT

Vaati's video makes a pretty strong case imo. Seems like a game that's going to require LEGENDARY ARMORED CORE GRIP, or an equivalent paddle-equipped pad.

The point about lack of minimap is interesting - I didn't internalize that at all while watching. Bit of a shame, even if unlocked camera makes it less obligatory. Though there's nothing to say it won't end up being an OS Tuning element in the full release, since other previously-default stuff like weapon eject is now an upgrade.

[Angry Hina]

Last weekend I finished AC3 after a long time with several month between the last plays. I hadnt the feeling, that I got anything new after AC2 Another Age and this is mostly true for the missions which offer nothing really interesting. Also the whole feel of the controls and the weapons or the background music was nothing special after playing the predecessors. There was also a short time in wich I thought about not trying to finish the game anymore and just put it back in its case. The reason for that was the mission "Defend Energy Reactor". After this one only two other missions would remain.

But this one was very tiring. You have a long corridor to walk until you can destroy an mighty cannon which protects the energy reactor you have to reach and protect. If you play this mission the first time, there is a lot of try and error until you figured out working tactics because there are several defensive systems trying to kill you. You also have to defeat an AC in the reactor room which deals nerly 1k dmg with every hit so you have to be really quick and especially loose no health on your way of possible or have an extremely defense and atack power focussed AC.

I tryed to build one but had not enough cash and this would have been the first time I had to do something like that and not clearing every mission with my all purpose AC. So..., at least this was not necessary and I found a good tactic on my own after watching some yt vids with tactics which doesnt worked for me.

The big problem was, that you have to reload the game after loosing / trying out a strategy. Which makes it really lengthy and depleting.

After figuring out, what strategy was working for me, I recorded my run (and the two after that) , because I think this one will work for most AC-assamblies whithout doing snipering or building a brute force AC. Here it is:

https://youtu.be/Iphq10WtpCY

[Sumez]

I wonder, which KF-or-adjacent should I play next?

There's two ways to go. Either you play the highlights and appreciate all the great experiences (KF2->ST->KF4->STA) or you do the whole shebang and follow the ups and downs, appreciating both the things they improved and the things they didn't (KF->KF2->KF3->ST->ER->KF4->STA)

Either way I'd go in release order

[Blinge]

Or take the Blinge route

KF2 > KF > KF3 > KF4 > ST > ST:A > ER

I personally see KF3 as a much enriched experience if you play it while hot on the lore/characters from the first 2 games

I guess the STs can be thrown in wherever though.
Glad you liked my stuff, Lander

[Sumez]

Ending on ER is a bit anticlimactic though, following something as amazing as KF4. Playing the games in order, ER still felt exciting going from the PS1 games to the first PS2 one. ER ironically is also the one of the three that performs the best, running quite smoothly most of the time.

[Blinge]

Hm.. it is but.
Actually yeah finish on ST:A

I thought of ER as an oddity to be played whenever the hell you want. far from required reading

[Steamflogger Boss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi7o_WyN43E

Not From but a decent looking Souls clone perhaps.

[Sumez]

Lords of the Fallen? I could have sworn that game already came out nine years ago

[drauch]

It was, yeah. This is like a reimagining or sequel or something from what I'm reading.

[Sima Tuna]

The Surge 1 was good. I didn't play Surge 2 because it looked like wankery. I mean, gameplay seemed fine but the story in Surge 2 was a big step down, based on what I saw. Surge 1 has an unusually strong main storyline for a soulslike. I don't mean lore, either. I mean actual, told-to-the-player story. It's pretty interesting.

Deck 13 are certainly a talented group of devs and they can put together some fun games. I'm not sure why they would want to revisit Lords of the Fallen, however, unless it's to correct what they see as a black mark upon their honor. Lords of the Fallen was panned by many when it released.

Last I heard from them officially (this one let's player actually had deck 13 staff on his videos, talking about the games and their company), they wanted to step away from the world of The Surge and work on something different. I suppose Lords of the Fallen qualifies, but it's not exactly something new, is it? I naturally assumed "new IP" when I heard them say they wanted to work on new projects.