From Software 'n such

[Air Master Burst]

but they won't play deraciné

Wasn't that basically just Echo Night but in VR?

[Sima Tuna]

Echo Night is a franchise I always meant to play. The space one seemed super cool. But I'm not really an adventure games kinda guy, and the games looked a little pacifistic for my hyper-violent squirrel brain. So I skipped them.

[drauch]

Echo Night rules. They've got their little quirks (like missing one random item and getting a different ending) but they're loaded with soul (lolgetit) and atmosphere. I even bought Deracine to play with my friend's PSVR but haven't gotten around to it just yet. But yeah, it's definitely Echo Night but VR. I'll be seeing that wanker this week, I believe. Perhaps it's time!

[Lander]

Nice to see AC6 in motion at last. Seems a bit slower overall than 4A, but snappy; that's the fastest Overed Boost startup I've seen, and staying airborne looks like it happens by itself now.

The lack of HUD makes it hard to tell what's going on with the lock system, since there's no glowy souls pip to make it obvious whether it's a hard-lock or something else. If I had to guess, I'd say they're probably doing the full-screen lockbox thing again, but with an added hard-lock button for extra control.

And you can really tell that they got a top player to record the footage, the way they have to take hands off the pad so the boss can land some climactic hits

whaaat. that happened?
did they fix it?

That would never happen to me as i don't do day long sessions rofl

Yup, it got patched pretty early I think - well before I laid hands on the game. Fairly rare bug though, since you had to no-life a 12 hour session for the effects to become fully apparent

For instance, poor Lobotomy-garius is significantly worse for wear following the loss of his magic repertoire, channelling his sister series' busted old man energy with every effortful swing.

[Sumez]

AC6 does look pretty fun, but I really don't want it to be the first AC game I actually finish, like I'm some sort of newbie scrub The hardcore AC community would never respect me!

[Blinge]

You got some work to do then boyah

[Sumez]

Hard to get around to when I'm busy running around wasting my time stabilizing signs and shooting cave frogs in Tears of the Kingdom

[Blinge]

Have we spoken about the cringefest that is any game journo interviewing From/Miyazaki about Armored core?

Sorry to bring this up again but I just stumbled across the best example again..
and i hadn't shared it here before.
Enjoy

https://www.ign.com/articles/armored-core-6-interview

[Lander]

Sorry to bring this up again but I just stumbled across the best example again..
and i hadn't shared it here before.
Enjoy

https://www.ign.com/articles/armored-core-6-interview

No, we've not been making a conscious effort to try to direct it towards more Soulsborne type gameplay.

Spoiler

[BIL]

"Sense of darkness" = SOULSBORNE CONFIRMED

I think first of all, speaking to those aspects, you mentioned the heavy combat, the air of mystery, the exploration and sense of darkness. I think rather than being typically Soulsborne, these are just things that are typical of FromSoftware in general.

That's very nice Miyazaki-san haha lmao but I notice the mech can Evade Enemy Attacks™, is this a nod to SoulsBorne™, where you can Evade Enemy Attacks™??? Prior to SoulsBorne™, it was traditional to unplug the console at the wall to Evade Enemy Attacks™, then put on a Dogshit AAA Walking Sim™ or Dogshit Indie Walking Sim™ instead!

[HELLEPHANT]

"Sense of darkness" = SOULSBORNE CONFIRMED

then put on a Dogshit AAA Walking Sim™ or Dogshit Indie Walking Sim™ instead!

Hey, that's unfair. They're not walking sims, sometimes enemies show up and pretend they're trying to hit you

[BIL]

Sorry I think the Sense Of Darkness™ radiating off noted SoulsBorne™ Zelda II, with its Heavy Combat™, Exploration™, and Air Of Mystery™ momentarily overwhelmed me

[BryanM]

Heard about the jealous Ubisoft employees whining about Elden Ring's interface, and saw the memey "Elden Ring if it was made by Ubisoft" mock up.

It really made me sick to my stomach just looking at the thing; it's everything I loathe about post World of Warcraft AAA game design. A huge list of inconsequential chores that haunt your every waking moment, trying to oversaturate the novelty lobe in your brain by doing less work than even the average minimum viable product gacha game does. Staring at a stupid minimap while you move instead of looking at the actual world (something I kind of hate in 1st person dungeon blopper games, too).

It is 100% in character for the typical AAA dev to feel disgust at even a very small amount of deviance and variety from the cookie cutter templates they use. You know how I constantly bitch about how there are people who hate thinking and can only echo what they're told to do and say, like drones in an ant colony? It's like they're offered the tiniest bit of freedom, and then scamper back into their cage.

It doesn't feel like they're making progress if there isn't a little ongoing "quest" indicator.

[Sima Tuna]

It's why I fucking despise Skyrim, despite spending hundreds of hours playing it when I was in college. Skyrim is a perfect skinnerbox of "turn your brain off and follow the map marker." After a certain point, I realized I wasn't playing the game. Skyrim was serving the same role of staring at a wall or meditating. It was just giving my brain minimal stimulation so I could veg out after classes. It was unhealthy (more so than normal gaming lol.) I wasn't engaging with anything in the game and wasn't accomplishing anything even in the context of a video game. The game had endless radiant quests and shitty dungeons to vomit out at me, and the game world would scale to my level. The "fun" was never-ending. Even the set quests in Skyrim are so slapdash and shittily-put-together that they feel like radiant quests.

When you look at a modern Ubisoft game, or a modern "map marker" game, they've taken all the wrong lessons from Skyrim's (and to a lesser extent, Oblivion's) popularity. It's all the same shit.

I will defend dungeon crawlers a little bit, here. While it's true you're usually staring at the minimap far more than is healthy, dungeon crawlers provide more engagement for your brain. Unless you are vastly overleveled for the zone you're in (in which case, why are you there?), every combat encounter has a good chance of forcing you to retreat from the dungeon to heal. If not wiping your party outright. Trap tiles aren't posted to the minimap until after you've stepped on them. In fact, no tile shows up before you step on it. But they *are* visible when looking through the first-person view. So you can't navigate solely by the minimap. What I usually end up doing is navigating by minimap when retreading zones, but navigating purely by sight when going through a zone for the first time. If you don't look at the layouts, you may not be able to see traps or secrets. Item collection zones may also not appear on the minimap even after you've stepped on that tile.

Then there are the dungeon crawlers that don't have a minimap at all... So I guess you're staring at your piece of graph paper instead of the game.

TL; DR dungeon crawling hits in a different way because the design is so radically different from a modern map marker game. You're constantly thinking actively about where to go, what to do and weighing your resources vs your greed. Dungeons in Skyrim are a joke btw. Braindead "puzzles" where they hand you the solution, mixed with endless click-mashing Draugr to death.

[Sumez]

The solution is easy for dungeon crawlers. Just don't display the map at the same time as the first person view

[velo]

For best experience, the minimap should be on graph paper.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Heard about the jealous Ubisoft employees whining about Elden Ring's interface, and saw the memey "Elden Ring if it was made by Ubisoft" mock up.

I could have sworn I posted that here shortly after it dropped. Maybe not though, it's been awhile. And yeah it's absolutely hilarious.

[Blinge]

It's why I fucking despise Skyrim, despite spending hundreds of hours playing it when I was in college. Skyrim is a perfect skinnerbox of "turn your brain off and follow the map marker." After a certain point, I realized I wasn't playing the game.

" Shit game 0/10 "
Hours Played: 300


y'know.. before I finished my Beldo Rim playthrough.. I went and cleared every remaining copypasta dungeon.
Well hates off to From I guess, I've played a few games, like Skyro Rim... with copy pasta dungeons. Beldo's seem to be the best copypasta dungeons I've ever seen.
I don't know how much of a feat that is, but there we go.

I'd been checking off every finished dungeon on the map by placing a lil' Flag marker there.

THEN
Then... One too many snide remarks about my Sorcerer playthrough (ez mode lul) essentially broke me.
and I've started again, New game. Using a greatsword - now I can be just like everyone else.
Yeah we'll see how much fucking tougher it is.

I've already met a couple of bosses whom i utterly wrecked just because they stagger on hit.

margit fucked me up again

[ryu]

Skyrim is one of the very few games I dropped. I was't enjoying it for like a little over 10 hours and decided it wasn't worth my time. That it's heralded as one of the greatest is saying a lot about the average game player.

[Sima Tuna]

Skyrim is one of the very few games I dropped. I was't enjoying it for like a little over 10 hours and decided it wasn't worth my time. That it's heralded as one of the greatest is saying a lot about the average game player.

I think it says a lot about what gamers have been engineered to consider quality. We've been conditioned for decades with increasingly skinnerbox-like games. The only thing Skyrim doesn't do that a modern game would is paywall everything. People think "play game" and they want a shallow open-world experience where you do fetch quests and roam empty, large environments. GTA V is kinda the same thing and that game was (is) hugely successful too. I came to GTA V from Vice City and the Stories titles and found it a dramatic downgrade. But what I like isn't what most people like usually. Insert hipster wearing glasses meme.

Spoiler

Liking a fromsoft game is a super pleb normie opinion and I like most/all of them, so whatever.

" Shit game 0/10 "
Hours Played: 300

Bruh, at least. I probably had 100 hours on each character and made tons of them. Guess what though? Every character ends up the same in the end. It's all a big gray blob of dragonborn, no matter how you try to build them. Every character ends up godlike at everything and certain skills are too useful not to build them first.

[Sumez]

I have also spent way too many hours on games I didn't like. Maybe not 300 hours, but relatable regardless.

[Angry Hina]

I prefer real robot mech sims or simcades to super robots flying around, but the genres been dead for either option. I guess I can always hope Armored Core 3 might get an HD port someday.

ACV was again more ground based. Even more than any other AC game before, I think.

Put Armored Core 3, Silent Line and Nexus

is it common to put these three on top of the PS1/PS2 time? Ive played all AC1-, AC2-, AC4- and ACV-games but just starting with the AC3-games. But AC3 doesnt have come very far compared to AC2 another age I guess... and what about Last Raven?

Stamina isn't lifted from KF either, doesn't function the same way. In KF you're never incapable of taking an action. Your swing will just do less damage/stagger.

You can but you nearly do no damage. I think its very comparable to Kings Field. Of course they developed the system a bit further.
KF feels much distinct gameplay wise but its obvious that DS was some kind of: "lets create a KF for the modern world... wait, replace the first person view, nobody wants that anymore". But many Souls elements were entirely new so... KF IV isnt the best Soulslike because its not a Soulslike but its an awesome spiritual predecessor and Souls fans should give it a chance.

But most importantly: KF II (jp) is better compared to IV because of better difficulty balance and world design.

Sadly DS cannot replace a new KF. It needs the first person view, the even slower combat and the mesmerizing dungeon synth soundtrack

[Blinge]

certain skills are too useful not to build them first.

This is where it all breaks down tbh.
that's you.

Souls fans should give it a chance.

A lot do but i've met many who wouldn't even consider it. I can't really explain this phenomenon. tis what tis.

I don't care about the comparison anymore but for the sake of completeness - you can also sprint infinitely in KF games, even with 0 stamina. As such it's not even a stamina gauge, it's a strike-power gauge

[Angry Hina]

But running depletes it as well. Its not as it has nothing to do with the gauge of DS.
KF is especially interesting for those who love the atmosphere of DS. I totally understand every DS fan who dont want to have anything to do with KD because of the gameplay difference ^^

[Sima Tuna]

Put Armored Core 3, Silent Line and Nexus

is it common to put these three on top of the PS1/PS2 time? Ive played all AC1-, AC2-, AC4- and ACV-games but just starting with the AC3-games. But AC3 doesnt have come very far compared to AC2 another age I guess... and what about Last Raven?

They made small but meaningful improvements. AC2 is a good set of games too though. Hell, even AC1 is impressive for ps1. AC3, Silent Line and Nexus are what I consider the last in the "classic" style, before From diverged into super robot territory with AC4 and For Answer. I played some of ACV and yeah, it is more ground-based. But there was something about the game I couldn't connect with. No idea what.

I mentioned Nexus because Nexus added full modern controls for those who want that, a harder campaign, used parts, a stricter economy and generally just a harsher world state for veteran players. But I don't like Nexus nearly as much as AC3 and Silent Line. AC3 is a fairly easy game, but it has so much depth and strategy in the mission structure, arena and combinations of mechs. You can build a general-purpose mech or you can devise a unique strategy to trivialize specific missions. There are so many ways to succeed in AC3 and I credit that partly to the fact the game is NOT super difficult. It's just hard enough to punish you for being careless.

That balance continues into Silent Line, but they dial up the challenge, since by now it's assumed you've finished AC3 and can handle what's next. Silent Line is a fantastic expansion. It's AC3 but just more of it, with missions of greater intensity and with stronger opponents. Some of the mission bosses are extremely fun.

AC3 and Silent Line, at least on psp, have fully customizable controls. This is another aspect that pushes AC3 above AC2 and AC1 for me. I don't play with the default control mappings. I prefer to set strafe on dpad and use triggers to turn. With custom controls, you can play the game whatever way you want and that's always great.

This is where it all breaks down tbh.
that's you.

I knew you'd say that. Yes, I choose to pick the fun and useful skills instead of the shit ones. Even if you don't minmax, you're still going to end up with a blob of a character who does a little of everything and uses the same spells everyone else uses. Because there aren't actually that many useful spells in the game. And the combat is a big mass of click-spamming no matter what weapon spec you pick. It all feels the same.

[Blinge]

I don't remember clickspamming much tbh.
I always preferred shield bashing and using power attacks to stagger enemies.
I refused to menu heal.

I mean, you are mostly right about the blob thing and character builds not being much of a factor.
but there is more to the combat if you want there to be.

[Steamflogger Boss]

" Shit game 0/10 "
Hours Played: 300

Elder Scrolls is shite though. I have hundreds of hours in Morrowind. Oblivion is the game that made me realize how terrible it all was. Well that and playing games that don't suck.

[Angry Hina]

they made small but meaningful improvements. AC2 is a good set of games too though. Hell, even AC1 is impressive for ps1. AC3, Silent Line and Nexus are what I consider the last in the "classic" style, before From diverged into super robot territory with AC4 and For Answer.

But last Raven came even later. What about this one? Its the only AC I don't own because of the price, so I don't can tell by myself

[Despatche]

Alright folks, time for the Armored Core breakdown. Ignore all reviews of these games, they're always intentionally low scores puked out by idiots. It's like Musou scores but so much worse.

Gen 1 is the PS1 games. The exact sequence of events is unclear, and it's believed that Master of Arena is meant to be at least a partial remake of the first game. I'm not sure what's going on with Project Phantasma, it feels like a prequel story though, or maybe it's just totally a gaiden. Either way, later gens were more civilized with the sequence of events.
[*]Armored Core is a solid singleplayer experience. It's commonly recommended for this, and it's the most thorough singleplayer of gen 1. You can play multiplayer in it, but you want the next game for that. If I remember right, you will need to carry over Human Plus from this game.
[*]Project Phantasma is the game that introduced the Arena mode everyone likes so much. However, it also has a smaller singleplayer to make up for it. That aside though, it's also the best-playing of the gen 1 games competitively, due to having the overall best balance, as well as a very useful movement glitch (inherited from the previous game) that doesn't break the game and actually makes a lot of strategies more viable.
[*]Master of Arena is a great example of doing too much. It has a hilarious amount of singleplayer content (specifically, an entire disc of Arena fights), but there are a lot of silly parts and they removed the great movement glitch. Seriously, fuck the Finger. Unsurprisingly, this is also the game that commonly gets recommended. Dumb.

Gen 2 is the first set of PS2 games. They are intended to be distant sequels to the PS1 games, after all the old corporations were destroyed, and new corporations come in that take the fighting to Mars.
[*]Armored Core 2 is an excellent balance of Missions and Arena. Great as a singleplayer game. Multiplayer would be okay but the next game was made to fix most issues; this will become a thing going forward. As with AC1, you will need to carry over Human Plus from this game. Supposedly, there's a bug where the maximum Human Plus level doesn't work properly in this game (supposed to have been fixed in Another Age), but I've got no idea what's really going on there.
[*]Another Age is a love letter to Mission enjoyers and hate mail to Arena enjoyers. It has the absolute biggest set of Missions in any Armored Core game ever, multiple games worth. It's also one of the best multiplayer games.

Gen 3 is the second set of PS2 games, and is meant as a reboot. The setting resembles the gen 1 setting a lot, and feels almost like a genuine remake. These seem to be the most well-liked of the entire series, because of just how appropriately unsettling they are, while also having an excellent balance of all things people like about Armored Core.
[*]Armored Core 3 is simply very good, while having a few competitive issues that were fixed in the next game, just like Armored Core 2. This gen does not have Human Plus, and you instead unlock a cool cheat part called OP-INTENSIFY when you beat the game normally, which does similar things. Probably the better way of doing this, the Human Plus unlock is kinda annoying.
[*]Silent Line is simply one of the best games in the series, if not the best. Everything good about AC3, plus adjustments to multiplayer to elevate it to the top.

Around this point there was a game called Formula Front. This game has absolutely nothing to do with any other Armored Core game and is meant as an entirely unique take on the concept altogether. Play it or don't, it's a pretty strange game. There are many different versions of it, and I'm no longer sure which one is "best". Possibly the PSP game called Formula Front International...?

The next gen is commonly thought of as gen 3, but is largely a unique generation with its own gameplay changes and aesthetic. I believe the name "Gen N" gets thrown around on the internet. It is a sequel to gen 3, taking place about 50 years or so after. War never changes, though. Crazy shit happens in gen N.
[*]Nexus is a polarizing game. Funny enough, it's disliked for the reasons people liked Master of Arena. It's similar to Master of Arena in various ways, including entirely too much content (this time, an entire disc of remakes of older missions, especially from ye old PS1 games), and some very funny ideas of balance. Supposedly, the Nexus we got was an entirely different project from a previous game that was closer to AC3. Why the previous project was shitcanned is a mystery, but I'm gonna assume dumb company politics as usual.
[*]Nine Breaker is... everyone hates this game, but it's far more like Another Age and Silent Line in that it's a very good competitive game. People say they hate it because it has zero Mission content, yet nobody seemed to mind that Another Age had zero Arena content. It's also the ULTIMATE tutorial on classic Armored Core. Instead of Missions, you have extremely elaborate training stages. You get good at these, and you'll have a better idea on how to play every PS1/PS2 AC game than literally anyone who hasn't. Some people are starting to realize what Nine Breaker is really about, now, finally, but it's still going to take a long time for anyone to really care.
[*]Last Raven is even more like Master of Arena than Nexus. Nexus has the sheer content, Last Raven has the "doing too much" with the balance. Sadly, because everyone hates Nine Breaker, everyone says they like Last Raven instead as the best Gen N game, just like Master of Arena. Dumb 2.

Gen 4, if the above gen N is not already gen 4 enough for you, is when the series becomes completely different. This is full on head ass super robot nonsense now. Obviously, this is a total reboot, and is about as far removed from the gen 1/3 setting as you can get.
[*]Armored Core 4 is exactly like Armored Core 2 and 3, except with the wildly different gameplay of gen 4.
[*]For Answer is the game everyone plays competitively. It remains the one game people really care about, probably because it's always had actual netplay while also being P2P. There are still For Answer gods out there to this day.

Gen 5 is the gen everyone loves to hate, even more so than gen N. This is because of a combination of factors that don't really have anything to do with the game's quality: it attempts to return to the pre-gen 4 style, which was seen as a "regression"; and it was primarily a team-based game, which remains an utterly hated concept. See: people constantly trying to be lone wolves in every team-based game ever. In particular, these games had a strong online focus, which was not as liked then as it is now. The game itself is great, of course. It's a distant sequel to gen 4, in a time when everything has gone right back to gen 1/3-level shittery.
[*]Armored Core V is exactly like Armored Core 4 with the gen 5 gameplay, etc etc. The singleplayer is a bit lean, but it's about like Project Phantasma or something.
[*]And then Verdict Day is the game people play for multiplayer. Amazingly it's still up, but I imagine it'll get taken down when AC6 comes out. Shame. Verdict Day has more singleplayer though.

Daemon X Machina absolutely needs to get mentioned here. Some former From folks worked on this game in lieu of an actual AC6. This first game really feels like what AC6 would turn into, it's kinda like AC4 but a bit more reined in. This game has an excellent PC port on Steam, be sure to check it out. ALL that DLC is cosmetic, don't worry about ANY of it unless you actually want it.

And now, after 10000000000000000000000000 years, we have an actual gen 6 coming. Is it an actual reboot? Is it a distant successor to some previous game, in the most cameo-of-cameos way possible? Who knows.
[*]Fires of Rubicon is also the first game of a gen to have a subtitle. Maybe we're in the era of one-game gens, finally? So far the game appears to be similar to gen 4, but reined in a bit. Still looks like a crazy character action game though, just like AC4.

There's also a sequel to Daemon X Machine in development, Titanic Scion. Not sure when it's coming or if it'll even actually release at this point, with AC6 coming. Seems to be pretty far in development though. Since AC6 is coming out in fucking August, and they only showed off Titanic Scion last month, this will probably be a while, hopefully after all the hype for AC6 has calmed down.

So that's about 25~26 years of WOW!! COOL ROBOT!!!. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[Sima Tuna]

Good breakdown, thanks for that. My personal gameplay experience is with AC1, AC2 (a bit), lots of AC3, lots of Silent Line, some Nexus, maybe a bit of Last Raven, lots of AC4, a bit of For Answer, and a bit of AC5.