These are my Shmup confessions...

[M.Knight]

The Recca stage 2 boss gives me more trouble then the other stages.

My strategy against this boss is as follows :
-I position myself at the bottom of the screen, in the middle, and I stop shooting. The two arms are less likely to hit me in this place and the shield absorbs the bullets.
-As soon as I see that the arms are retracting into the boss, I rush into the core and if the boss sends its arms at my location in a straight line , I unleash the bomb attack, and then use my main and sub weapon for extra damage. If the arms unfold in a rotating way, I refrain from moving all the way up, and go back to the starting position and wait for another opportunity.
-After I damaged the boss, I go back to my position to avoid getting killed by the arms.
-Rinse and repeat until the boss dies. It should not take too long.

Otherwise, you can also try this speed-kill strategy that looks riskier but ends the fight in a few seconds.

[dark]

I enjoy Zarlor Mercenary.

[LordHypnos]

After being in the zone and having an exceptionally good run of Fast Striker 1.5 yesterday, I'm afraid to start playing again, because I can't imagine that I'll be able to make it to the 6th stage again any time soon, and that's discouraging

[Blinge]

Sometimes when pissing I shake my dong slightly, so it comes out like the spread pattern from Bashinet Mk.2 in Batrider.

[Aldnox]

I think the original DoDonPachi is not that great. DOJ, on the other hand, is shmup greatness.

[doom_]

mushihimesama is the only shmup I played for more than 50 hours, and since I am so used to it now I cannot enjoy any other shmup any more. It seems that I have to force me to put in some hours in a new game to get used to it and, thus, be able to enjoy it...

[d0s]

- Mahou Daisakusen is my favorite Raizing game, because it's like a Compile arcade game
- The only cave games I truly love are DP and DDP, sdoj is growing on me but I'm complete shit at it and also:
- Shameless moe otaku pandering shit is annoying, anime is fine if used in a way that isn't creepy (Radirgy)
- I think the first R-Type game is a work of art and I don't call video games art often
- I think Vasara is criminally underrated and really fun
- I like Video System more than Psikyo
- I get irrationally mad when people credit feed in arcades and wish the continue function was disabled by default on all boards
- I always get really good at scoring on stage 1, then say fuck it and play the rest of the game for survival
- Late 80's-early 90's were the best time in history for STG and it's been downhill from there
- The word "shmup" is heinous
- I don't like most Gradius games

[MarioNintendo]

mushihimesama is the only shmup I played for more than 50 hours, and since I am so used to it now I cannot enjoy any other shmup any more. It seems that I have to force me to put in some hours in a new game to get used to it and, thus, be able to enjoy it...

haha, I feel exactly the same, but for Crimzon Clover!

[-S.L-]

Apart from the music, Battle Garegga is really lame.

[Lyv]

- I don't find CAVE games fun to play, except on a "one credit a month" basis.
- Batrider is the only Raizing game I like, and pretty much only because of the presentation/aesthetics.
- Shmup meets are a bit disheartening because I'm shit at playing on real cabs.
- I don't even score.
- I don't want "deep scoring systems" and "elaborate mechanisms" in my shmups.
- Shitty art is one of the reasons I like Touhou.
- I think Dragon Blaze is one of Psikyo's easiest games if played for survival.

[d0s]

- Shmup meets are a bit disheartening because I'm shit at playing on real cabs.

It's more like US/western standing cabs are complete shit to play on, and specifically engineered to be so you get uncomfortable and get off as fast as possible, and the sticks and buttons on them are trash designed to survive an apocalypse rather than for precision control. Playing on a candy cab sitting down is completely different and actually fun

[Shepardus]

• I judge most games by their soundtrack and characters by their cuteness.
• The more I play a game, the less I tend to like it. Only a handful of games really stand the test of time for me.
• I don't like games being hard. I can put up with it if the game's also fun, but difficulty makes me less willing to invest time in them. Maybe Dodonpachi Daioujou is fun if I get good at it, but why spend the time figuring out when I could play a wide range of other games that are fun right now? So if you're trying to sell a game to me, please don't talk about how hard your game is and try to use that as a selling point; all else considered equal, I prefer an easier game over a harder one. Of course it's never quite "all else equal," but hopefully the point is clear.
• I think adding complex scoring systems to shmups is pointless and usually hurts games more than it helps. With many games you can probably add depth (and fun!) by removing complexity.
• I want to make a shmup with procedurally generated stages and fix the seed so players get the same stages every time, and see if anybody notices that I didn't actually hand-craft the stages.
• I think choosing not to recommend a shmup because it doesn't have enough content is a pretty reasonable thing to do, at least if the game costs money. (If it's free you're only investing your time so it doesn't matter if it only takes half an hour to get through a game)
• I believe shmups have faded in popularity from their heyday because people became too focused on creating shmups rather than creating good games. When developers set out to create good games first and foremost they usually end up with something that's not a shmup.

[Perikles]

- The SFC/SNES is severely underappreciated when compared to its contemporaries regarding the genre. While it's a simple fact that the quantity is not as abundant as it is on the MD and the PCE, the quality of the horizontals (especially the console-exclusive ones) makes more than up for it.

- While I love 16-bit, I have a hard time with 8-bit shmups. There are a few selected games I adore (Famicom Gradius & Gyruss, Sqoon, Zanac), a lot of the rest leaves me indifferent at best.

- I have a lot of tolerance towards slowdowns, not so much on the flicker front which is one of the crucial reasons for the above statement.

- Albeit I have a pronounced fondness for innovative perspectives and camera shifts, I'm usually horrendous at games that implement them. My experience with Einhänder so far has been rather bleak, for example. Also can't play rail shooters to save my life, I can never tell what's going on at any given time. The only game with twists and turns that I can also play with confidence is R-Type Delta.

- Really enjoy endless looping, I perceive it as very meditative in games I find to be pleasing. I wouldn't want Irem games to have more than two loops, though (or more than one in Delta's case), it fits those perfectly as is.

- Always try to dabble with something out of my comfort zone, yet also always get sidetracked shortly thereafter.

- What wouldn't I give for a less painful high-loop Gradius III AC experience. This could've been the best game in the series if not for all those aggravating traits...

I don't like games being hard. I can put up with it if the game's also fun, but difficulty makes me less willing to invest time in them. Maybe Dodonpachi Daioujou is fun if I get good at it, but why spend the time figuring out when I could play a wide range of other games that are fun right now?

That's an extremely interesting point of discussion that surely deserves more attention (in a separate thread mayhap?). I didn't enjoy Raiden II as much as the first game simply because I found it too stressful (just can't cope with extraordinarily fast bullets). I'm convinced Argus and Battlantis must be sick, cruel jokes, particularly Battlantis, a lot of the design choices in those games are the opposite of worthwhile challenges presented for the players. On the other hand, some of the most fun I had was with the second loops of R-Type II, Image Fight and Xexex, respectively, all of which are merciless, back-stabbing sociopaths. The increased difficulty works astoundingly well with the analytical problems it provides, I believe. And after a rough start I also started to greatly appreciate Viper Phase 1 which is not that much easier than Raiden II, mostly because it's such an aggressive game. Fascinating how that works!

[Blinge]

I don't like games being hard. I can put up with it if the game's also fun, but difficulty makes me less willing to invest time in them. Maybe Dodonpachi Daioujou is fun if I get good at it, but why spend the time figuring out when I could play a wide range of other games that are fun right now?

That's an extremely interesting point of discussion that surely deserves more attention (in a separate thread mayhap?).

Haha yes, I also suffer from this. Luckily for Sheppy, he's got enough natural talent that the pool of difficult games is significantly smaller.

I have a similar thing but it boils down to memo games, really. I've been playing a lot of Metal Black lately and getting hit in the ass by an enemy from behind on stage 3 or something cause I didn't have the memo down makes me go from 0 to rage almost instantly.

I'm a total cave whore in that respect, I much prefer big lenient clouds of bullets that I can improvise dodge for lengthy credits, even in a new game. My brain says "fun" when presented with bullet hell, it says "hard work and grind" for Memorisers. The only reason I kept playing Metal Black was because I love the aesthetics and atmosphere enough to force myself to practice; that and wanting another trophy for the wall.
Now I have the game roughly memo'd and the end is in sight, I'm enjoying it a lot more.

Wouldn't touch R-Type with a bargepole atm.

[pegboy]

I've never cleared a Cave game. (I don't count novice mode clears, and even then I've only done DDP DFK which is probably the easiest clear of all time). That said, I AM a fan of Cave.

[jochen]

I know and think that R-Type is one of the greatest and defining shmups.

But I suck at it.

So I must confess that I have still more fun playing the ripoff Katakis with its faults on the C64 ( emulated - but deep in my cellar, well hidden, I still own a C64).

On a sidenote - I played Giana Sisters on the C64 long before any Super-Mario-Bros-Game - so for me every time I play a Mario-Game it feels like a
copy of Giana Sisters for me ( you can know the truth but sometimes feelings wont change).

[copy-paster]

Glad I found this thread, here's mine :

- Most of my 1cc's is done by save state practice.
- I think Battle Garegga, DoDonPachi, and Ketsui is the perfect example of "shumps for real men".
- I really want to play Dariusburst CS and Crimzon Clover so bad, until now I never played them. EDIT : Have played CW, so good.
- Despite the high praise, Radiant Silvergun is really lame and shit.
- I want to love Einhander, but limited ammos hate me.
- Never played Thunder Force games, except IV.
- I never played Touhou games, but I like some of the music.
- I don't like suicide bullets tbh, can't stand with this.
- Wing Force is the only shmup I've ever ALL'd.
- If Batrider gets a console/PC release, I bet it would be a massive hit.
- I realized that DFK's A.I is so fucking cute, perhaps the cutest female Cave character.
- I haven't 1cc Espgaluda, yet everyone still says it's an easy game.
- I just pretend Otomedius doesn't exist.
- As much as I like DOJ, playing for score is not fun for me.
- I think Gradius II PCE is superior over the original arcade, despite with it's limitations.
- The lack of worldwide release is what makes shmup somewhat unpopular genre.
- Taito is the most unique shmup developers, just look at their shmup library...

There's more of my confessions, but I am too lazy to write...

[Dirty Casual]

- Most of my 1cc's is done by save state practice.

I think about this a lot.

I don't mind learning some easier shmups without savestates, but having to play the whole game to learn each segment really protracts the learning process.

Of course, when learning something, you need time to digest information. Hammering against the same challenge over and over will bring you to fatigue, and you won't internalize what's happening. But fatigue is not instant.

On the other hand, time away from a challenge can make it hard to study exactly what is going on. You need time to play with the thing that's giving you trouble. My friend puts it like this: if you're learning to play piano, and you have trouble with a certain measure, you wouldn't replay the whole songbook from the beginning every time you mess up. Instead, you would focus on that measure.

But then, I wonder if a savestate approach leads to a more memorization-centric play style. When you use savestates to practice a challenge, is this training any of your reflexes? Or is it just a matter of knowledge, just a way of logging information and memorizing how a challenge works?

[Squire Grooktook]

-I really like cute anime girls
-I really want someone to make a vanilla hentai doujin starring the girl from musha.
-I would also like similar doujins for Karte from Dimahoo, Shorty from Batrider, the chick from Rayforce, Fossil Maiden from Hellsinker, and a few others.
-Writing the above, I just realized I've never searched for Hellsinker doujins. Probably going to go do that after I finish making this post.
-Cave has shitty waifus except the girl from Guwange and the guy from Galuda when he's a girl
-Why be a spaceship when you can be a waifu
-^^^Except most character shmups have godawful player sprites, animation, poses, and perspective. This is not necessary.
-If a pattern doesn't have rng, it's not as good as it could be
-Speed killing and catching shiny things are the only legitimate signs of dominance and thus the true master race scoring systems.

[WelshMegalodon]

- Most of my 1cc's is done by save state practice.

I think about this a lot.

I don't mind learning some easier shmups without savestates, but having to play the whole game to learn each segment really protracts the learning process.

Of course, when learning something, you need time to digest information. Hammering against the same challenge over and over will bring you to fatigue, and you won't internalize what's happening. But fatigue is not instant.

On the other hand, time away from a challenge can make it hard to study exactly what is going on. You need time to play with the thing that's giving you trouble. My friend puts it like this: if you're learning to play piano, and you have trouble with a certain measure, you wouldn't replay the whole songbook from the beginning every time you mess up. Instead, you would focus on that measure.

But then, I wonder if a savestate approach leads to a more memorization-centric play style. When you use savestates to practice a challenge, is this training any of your reflexes? Or is it just a matter of knowledge, just a way of logging information and memorizing how a challenge works?

Reading this and the other thread, I sometimes wonder whether I'm the only person on this site who thinks music and video games should be approached differently.

I do get a kick out of the whole wasting time argument. It's like bragging about how "I just don't like to waste as much time playing video games as you" or "I want results as fast as possible, because I have better things to do" Then there is the whole "guys guys, _insert something that has stage/state practice_ has it built in, we're okay, right.. right?" As if some inner voice is questioning the validity and if a false sense of accomplishment is going to whack you in the head some day and you realize the truth.

I can't tell you how much I agree with this.

[Dirty Casual]

Reading this and the other thread, I sometimes wonder whether I'm the only person on this site who thinks music and video games should be approached differently.

Nice, a thread on this! Thank you for the link. I've got some reading to do.

[Bananamatic]

not this shit discussion again

Nice, a thread on this! Thank you for the link. I've got some reading to do.

don't read it, it's full of 40 year old dads thinking there is some "arcade honor code" but god forbid you make a suggestion else they get pissed off at you for being an "elitist" (but don't use stage practice that CAVE themselves put in the game for a reason, that's cheating!)

play however the hell you want but if you want to improve then focusing on the parts where you actually need to improve the most will make you progress faster, that's common sense
just don't be a grumpy geriatric forcing your playstyle on others

here's a more reliable source to check out, a livestream of the DFKBL world record holder using stage practice on the steam version to practice the game
therefore:
1) stage practice is a very good idea if you want to improve
2) he's not banned from the arcade rankings so it's allowed
3) don't let 40 year olds on an internet forum with buyers remorse from spending their life savings on PCBs without stage practice guilt trip you into playing the game their way

[Shepardus]

If peak efficiency/performance is your priority then I don't see any reason not to use practice savestates or stage practice modes or whatever's available. There are unproductive ways of using them but having the option is better than not having it or pretending it doesn't exist.

For me the possibility for improvement is an important motivating factor, but it's not my purpose in playing these games. When I use savestates, it's generally because I no longer find it fun to play the game from the start but still want to play the game for whatever reason (e.g. to finish up a clear that's within reach, or to enjoy later stages without the drudgery of lame early stages). This tends to happen when I'm stuck at a particular moment in the game that isn't very dependent on preceding sections, which makes my early performance feel inconsequential because it's all going to end at the same point regardless. Sudden difficulty spikes can produce moments like this, as can memorization-dependent games where experimentation is key in finding a route (e.g. Psikyo games).

Designers can alleviate this by giving players multiple ways of dealing with situations (e.g. reactionary micro-dodging, memorizing a macro-dodge technique, stocking up bombs, rank control, different character/weapon choices, the option to forego risky scoring techniques) and ensuring the challenge isn't too heavily dependent on one certain skill (e.g. a challenge where there's no way through unless you've got stellar reactions) - in other words, giving them more tools than they need. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on who you ask) top-tier scoring in many games requires mastery of all your tools, so you don't get as much freedom to deal with situations in different ways to play to your strengths. That, along with the generally higher standards for score-play and the competitive aspect, lends itself to savestate practice.

[LordHypnos]

my shmup confessions:

-The only arcade difficulty game I have ever 1cc'd is Mars Matrix
-There is a good chance I will never be able to 1cc another arcade difficulty game because I generally can't keep interested long enough to git gud.
-The only other games I have been able to 1cc are extremely easy because I tend to get bored with practicing easier games, and only the extremely easy (like Mecha Ritz easy) are easy enough for me to clear without any practice. I guess Samidare might have been a little more medium difficulty (though far from arcade difficulty, I'd say)
-I would probably have never been able to get past the stage 4 boss of Mars Matrix without save state practice, though I didn't use save states much for any other part of the game and pretty much not at all for pre stage 4 stuff. Also haven't used for my recent scoring improvements, because it's not really easy to keep a chain going from a save state or find a good spot for the next save state. I use stage practice all the damn time, though.

[MaXXX]

I shun the traditional arcade/action style gameplay of shmups and instead choose to play them like a turn based strategy game. I advance the game one frame at a time, giving myself time to think about my enemies moves before I choose mine. This turns them into more of a thinking mans game, rather than one where you twitch like some kind of freakish nerd trying to pull off "sick dodges"

[Shepardus]

I shun the traditional arcade/action style gameplay of shmups and instead choose to play them like a turn based strategy game. I advance the game one frame at a time, giving myself time to think about my enemies moves before I choose mine. This turns them into more of a thinking mans game, rather than one where you twitch like some kind of freakish nerd trying to pull off "sick dodges"

So basically you play roguelikes

There actually was a shoot 'em up released on iOS and Android called Time Locker that implements a SUPERHOT/Red Rogue-style system (time moves only when you do).

[Blem]

I shun the traditional arcade/action style gameplay of shmups and instead choose to play them like a turn based strategy game. I advance the game one frame at a time, giving myself time to think about my enemies moves before I choose mine. This turns them into more of a thinking mans game, rather than one where you twitch like some kind of freakish nerd trying to pull off "sick dodges"

Move > Left
Action > Shot
End Turn
Move > Right
Action > Shot
End Turn

[maximo310]

Shmup confessions
-I'm a namco nutcase
- I feel that either save states or credit feeding to practice for the 1cc's works; use whatever method works best
- I try to learn at least one tune from each shmup I play
- Scoring systems can make or break a game
- There's a huge lack of competitive 1 vs 1 shmups
- I like to brainstorm what sequels ( that were never released for existing games) could add to the table
- Nasty popcorns ruin my day
- Gunbird is so bad
-Ikaruga is so artsy its not even funny
- A good shmup should have a good balance between risk vs. reward
- I never thought I would have a bunch of clears after only playing seriously for more than a year and a half
- Finding info, making replays,and guides can only have a positive effect on the community and for helping other players out
- I got distracted from 1 looping dodonpachi/ espgaluda despite reaching the final stages in previous attempts

[d0s]

not this shit discussion again

Nice, a thread on this! Thank you for the link. I've got some reading to do.

don't read it, it's full of 40 year old dads thinking there is some "arcade honor code" but god forbid you make a suggestion else they get pissed off at you for being an "elitist" (but don't use stage practice that CAVE themselves put in the game for a reason, that's cheating!)

play however the hell you want but if you want to improve then focusing on the parts where you actually need to improve the most will make you progress faster, that's common sense
just don't be a grumpy geriatric forcing your playstyle on others

here's a more reliable source to check out, a livestream of the DFKBL world record holder using stage practice on the steam version to practice the game
therefore:
1) stage practice is a very good idea if you want to improve
2) he's not banned from the arcade rankings so it's allowed
3) don't let 40 year olds on an internet forum with buyers remorse from spending their life savings on PCBs without stage practice guilt trip you into playing the game their way

I'm not gonna read that bad thread but are there actually people who think practicing with savestates is cheating or something and admonish other people who do it or is this a case of being repulsed by some guy's decision to not use them personally

edit: personally I like to play a credit at a time on PCBs but when I hit a hard part I have no problem loading up mame and figuring it out with savestates, but doing it too much feels like work. I don't care how other people practice because that is retarded

[Blem]

I'm not gonna read that bad thread but are there actually people who think practicing with savestates is cheating

One guy compared save state practice to an athlete using steroids.