Too close for comfort? the revival?

[Sumez]

http://youtu.be/68nrURpTDOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWf_jbrpn4o

[Sumez]

That's still an argument about morals and ethics which are, again, completely subjective.

Lol you can't say I shouldn't rob a bank because whether it's "wrong" is a completely subjective opinion.

Dude, subjective opinions is the reason WHY you can discuss stuff. If everything was objective, everyone would agree on everything.

[mjclark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWf_jbrpn4o

Lol- that's fucking brilliant!

[defected78]

People like the ones in this thread who pirate games and play roms are the reasons that the two greatest ever consoles were destroyed.

Neo Geo and Dreamcast.

Dreamcast is a fatal casualty, so ahead of its time with amazing mostly 60fps VGA games and destroyed by brassic people burning copies of the games. People like you are responsible not only for the death of dreamcast but the death of sega.

WELL DONE and enjoy your roms.

[moozooh]

What are you on about? Dreamcast was already dead in 2001, way before broadband and CD recording hardware became cheap enough to make piracy even affordable. It was Sega's fuckup first and foremost, providing poor marketing support after the development disaster that was Saturn, and rendering it impossible to compete with PS2 which got all the juicy titles as well as much better genre diversity.

[mjclark]

WELL DONE and enjoy your roms.

Thanks, and you enjoy your anti-piracy stance
Remember that honesty is it's own reward and we've all got what's coming to us one way or another so there's no need to get too uptight about all this stuff.
We all love shmups and this is supposed to be FUN, remember?
With Demul 0.5.7 there'll soon be plenty more to enjoy too !

A "What Killed The Dreamcast?" debate would be very interesting as well.
It's one of my favourite consoles but like moozooh says it's demise wasn't due to piracy.

[moozooh]

I also don't understand how Neo Geo, a platform that lasted good ten years while being more expensive all the way, was "destroyed" in the first place. That is an absolutely amazing life cycle, and the only reason it didn't have as much popularity as it could was, yes that's right, steep pricing in the light of way more affordable SNES, Genesis, and Playstation, among others. To survive and enjoy a cult following for so goddamn long while the best consoles of their kind thrived in popularity is a miracle, and the only reason it died was because it was its time to.

[Sumez]

Piracy was EXTREMELY rampant for the DC, but I disagree it's what killed it, there are so many other obvious factors that claiming that is just wrong - once again I don't think it's worth discussing, at least not in this thread.

[defected78]

Around the time that finalburn and neoroage were develpoed. That was the start of the end of the neogeo. If memory serves 1999 right around the time of dreamcast.

[BIL]

You're making a hasty generalization.

We're talking about video games here, not a free ride through life. Is it really that big of a deal? Are people dying because of copyright infringement? Are there food shortages because of copyright infringement? Are wars breaking out because of copyright infringement? Is the environment being destroyed because of copyright infringement?

Read my posts in this thread again. Notice my recurring use of expressions such as "I don't give a toss" and "I couldn't care less" regarding emulation's legitimacy, as well as the repeated admissions that I emulate tons of games myself. You are arguing with someone who doesn't exist, which is amusing on my end, but sillier than any debate on the "morality of emulation."

And yes, we were talking about "free rides through life" because that was the statement put forth by poor old mj in the first place. It has dick-all to do with emulation itself!

The pointlessness of continuing to bring morality into the argument when it's subjective and obviously won't change anyone's mind.

Sorry, I think you've put more thought into that interpretation than mj ever put into the post itself. It was a throwaway little quip that happened to be questionable and someone questioned it! Oh no.

When mjclark(and others) bring up that they never would have bought it anyway, that statement is meant to count the argument that's often made by the industry that every download equals a lost sale. In other words, it's a financial/economic argument, so to counter it with a moral argument about whether or not people should or shouldn't be obligated to buy something is what looks rather silly.

See top of post.

Again, we're talking about video games here. Video games. To personally attack someone and demonize them as a thieving a pirating ingrate because they don't share your views is ridiculous.

LOL. If the references to low-wage employment, lacking intelligence, "say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens" and general incompetence offended you that much, I'm sorry. They originated on the other guy's end, so don't pin it all on me. I think both of us have moved on from this point in our lives, however - it was tough, but we're better men for the experience. Thanks for coming in to mediate post-resolution.

If you want an apology for my commenting on his post in the first place, you will never receive one. Good day!

If you're saying I've been attacking people for emulation, see top of post.

I really don't think that the world is any danger because of some techno geek's hacked game and dumped ROM collection. Seriously, the fact that it goes against what you've brought to believe is morally right notwithstanding, does it really have any tangible effect on your life that people whom you'll never meet outside of a video game forum are playing said games without paying for them?

See top of post.

Who cares?

See top of post.

EDIT: FUCK, THE THREAD WAS JUST GETTING BACK ON-TOPIC! SORRY GUYS

[moozooh]

Around the time that finalburn and neoroage were develpoed. That was the start of the end of the neogeo. If memory serves 1999 right around the time of dreamcast.

...Yeah, by the time AES was on its tenth year of consumer availability with no real prospects in sight for a hardware platform so inexcusably old. That's beside the fact that systems like PS2, Xbox 360, NDS, and Wii had their protection cracked or otherwise circumvented within a year or so of release, which didn't really prevent them from explosive popularity.

[mjclark]

I think both of us have moved on from this point in our lives, however - it was tough, but we're better men for the experience.

Yeah- I've started playing XII Stag (and it's a legit disc with box and manual bought for 99p in GAME in Torquay, not even an iso)

[Sumez]

What's a Torquay?

[BIL]

Yeah- I've started playing XII Stag (and it's a legit disc with box and manual bought for 99p in GAME in Torquay, not even an iso)

And I'm playing Last Resort in MAME!

*manly tears*

[mjclark]

What's a Torquay?

It's this:


If you look closely enough you may even see some pirate ships in the harbour laden with their precious bounty of ROMS

[Bananamatic]

People like you are responsible not only for the death of dreamcast but the death of sega.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MWEHwvc ... ideo_title

this is what killed sega

[Nasirosuchus]

That's still an argument about morals and ethics which are, again, completely subjective.

Lol you can't say I shouldn't rob a bank because whether it's "wrong" is a completely subjective opinion.

Dude, subjective opinions is the reason WHY you can discuss stuff. If everything was objective, everyone would agree on everything.

Oh my god, you're serious, aren't you?

First of all, you don't need morality to explain why armed robbery shouldn't be allowed.

Second, at this point, nothing is really being "discussed." You and others are just trying to shove your moral viewpoint down other peoples' throats and then throwing a tantrum because they don't see things your way.

[Sumez]

As much as I don't doubt that is a terrible game, it annoys me a little when people use bugs and glitches as arguments to why a game is "bad".

But yeah, Sega WOULD probably be at least a bit better off if they were still making good games apart from the Valkyria Chronicles games.

[Sumez]

First of all, you don't need morality to explain why armed robbery shouldn't be allowed.

But why it's "bad" to break the law in order to steal a product that is marketed at a certain price in order to cover the production, promotion and distribution costs isn't obvious?

Second, at this point, nothing is really being "discussed." You and others are just trying to shove your moral viewpoint down other peoples' throats and then throwing a tantrum because they don't see things your way.

If you had bothered actually reading my posts, you'd notice that I haven't done this at any point (and the same goes for BIL).

[Udderdude]

People like you are responsible not only for the death of dreamcast but the death of sega.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MWEHwvc ... ideo_title

this is what killed sega

I lol'd.

[Nasirosuchus]

Read my posts in this thread again. Notice my recurring use of expressions such as "I don't give a toss" and "I couldn't care less" regarding emulation's legitimacy, as well as the repeated admissions that I emulate tons of games myself. You are arguing with someone who doesn't exist, which is amusing on my end, but sillier than any debate on the "morality of emulation."

And yes, we were talking about "free rides through life" because that was the statement put forth by poor old mj in the first place. It has dick-all to do with emulation itself!

Um, no. You said early that you didn't care about the morality of it, and yet you keep bringing up moral arguments. That's what I was talking about it.

The man's statement was about video games. To try to expand to the rest of his life makes no sense, so before you start lecturing me on logical fallacies, you might want to look at your own house

Sorry, I think you've put more thought into that interpretation than mj ever put into the post itself. It was a throwaway little quip that happened to be questionable and someone questioned it! Oh no.

I know where he got it from.

LOL. If the references to low-wage employment, lacking intelligence, "say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens" and general incompetence offended you that much, I'm sorry.

It didn't. I'm not one to get offended by what people do with video games.

If you want an apology for my commenting on his post in the first place, you will never receive one. Good day!

If you're saying I've been attacking people for emulation, see top of post.

See top of post.

See top of post.

You do the same.

[Drum]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Stop.

Great argument.

Good enough for who its for.

[BIL]

Um, no. You said early that you didn't care about the morality of it, and yet you keep bringing up moral arguments. That's what I was talking about it.

What "moral arguments," exactly? I'm completely flummoxed here. If you're talking about the welfare angle, that's as much an economical concern as it is an ethical one. I'm a UK taxpayer in full-time employment, I don't need this shit in my life.

The man's statement was about video games. To try to expand to the rest of his life makes no sense, so before you start lecturing me on logical fallacies, you might want to look at your own house

"If that's your attitude to life then good luck and can I have large fries with that?"

Sorry mj, this guy apparently has the short-term memory of a hamster with a reading level to match.

I know where he got it from.

"It?" What?

It didn't. I'm not one to get offended by what people do with video games.

Again you're not making any sense. None of the stuff I mentioned had anything to do with videogames.

You do the same.

Okay, I've gone back to the top of your post. All I'm seeing is evidence of a severe lack of reading comprehension on your part. What else was I meant to find?

If you want to try out for the mod team here, don't beat around the bush with us. PM an admin with a link to this thread!

[Nasirosuchus]

But why it's "bad" to break the law in order to steal a product that is marketed at a certain price in order to cover the production, promotion and distribution costs isn't obvious?

Because what we're talking about here isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement.

The copyright holder still has all property and money from before the unauthorized copy was acquired. You can bring up that it isn't right to enjoy it without paying for it, but I think we can see where that's gone.

If you had bothered actually reading my posts, you'd notice that I haven't done this at any point (and the same goes for BIL).

Yes, you have.

[BIL]

Yes, you have.

I hope you've got a better response than that lined up for me, Mr. Member Moderator.

[Drum]

But why it's "bad" to break the law in order to steal a product that is marketed at a certain price in order to cover the production, promotion and distribution costs isn't obvious?

Because what we're talking about here isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement.

The copyright holder still has all property and money from before the unauthorized copy was acquired. You can bring up that it isn't right to enjoy it without paying for it, but I think we can see where that's gone.

Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that you have talents and abilities that somebody would want to pay you for. One day, your boss comes in and tells you he isn't going to pay you for the work you did all this week, even though it's in the contract, and tells you that he'll see you on Monday. That's piracy, in essence. You can bleat all you like that not paying what you owe is somehow not stealing, but that seems like a trivial distinction.

[Nasirosuchus]

What "moral arguments," exactly? I'm completely flummoxed here. If you're talking about the welfare angle, that's as much an economical concern as it is an ethical one. I'm a UK taxpayer in full-time employment, I don't need this shit in my life.

Ok.

"If that's your attitude to life then good luck and can I have large fries with that?"

Could that possibly just be a comment he made to piss people off instead of being what he actually believes about life????

Sorry mj, this guy apparently has the short-term memory of a hamster with a reading level to match.

A clever and well-composed statement like this certainly proves YOUR intelligence. You can't be rattled in your game, can you? No one can touch such a great mind with a ten-foot pole.

It

The clip and picture you linked to.

Again you're not making any sense. None of the stuff I mentioned had anything to do with videogames.

I'm talking about this thread, which the last time I checked was about the emulation of video games.

You do the same.

Okay, I've gone back to the top of your post. All I'm seeing is evidence of a severe lack of reading comprehension on your part. What else was I meant to find?

If you want to try out for the mod team here, don't beat around the bush with us. PM an admin with a link to this thread! [/quote]

*yawn*

All I'm seeing is someone who's full of himself because he can make snide remarks on an internet message board. I know you think it makes you sound witty and intelligent, but it really just makes you sound like a six-year-old with a large vocabulary. At the very least, you could make them funny.

And really, if I'm such an idiot, then why are you wasting your time by continuing to reply? Someone as intelligent as you should be aware of the fact that the only person worse than an idiot is someone who tries to argue with one.

[Sumez]

The copyright holder still has all property and money from before the unauthorized copy was acquired. You can bring up that it isn't right to enjoy it without paying for it, but I think we can see where that's gone.

And you seriously think the monetary value of a bank isn't all based on digital numbers in this day and age?

I don't discuss whether piracy is right or wrong, and I haven't done so anywhere in this thread. Yeah, I think it is, but I'm not trying to cover you in a billion stupid arguments trying to make you understand why I think it is, I'm just pointing out whenever someone makes a dumb statement, whether it's "Piracy killed the Dreamcast!!" or "Even though it's an obvious illegal act not condoned by the developers, you can still argue that it's OK because it's a subjective matter!!"

Truth is, there ARE a lot of good arguments FOR piracy (they don't mean you can disregard all those against it), and I'm not wasting time arguing with those here.

[BIL]

Ok.

Thank you for admitting you were in the wrong about everything I wrote.

Could that possibly just be a comment he made to piss people off instead of being what he actually believes about life????

Yes, that is one possiblity. It's also possible mj is secretly working for HM Revenue & Customs, and is conducting an anti-piracy sting operation. Or maybe his entire posting history on this forum is a front for his real job as an employee of the Torquay Tourist Board. There are all sorts of fascinating possibilities. I followed the most likely one given the post's content and its context. If he was just trolling, who cares anyway? edit: and I already said I'm sure it was just an offhand remark, geeze.

A clever and well-composed statement like this certainly proves YOUR intelligence. You can't be rattled in your game, can you? No one can touch such a great mind with a ten-foot pole.

Thanks!

The clip and picture you linked to.

Yes, I linked it from the BBC's website. What's your point?

I'm talking about this thread, which the last time I checked was about the emulation of video games.

Yes, but you were referring to my posts, which had nothing to do with the emulation of videogames.

All I'm seeing is someone who's full of himself because he can make snide remarks on an internet message board. I know you think it makes you sound witty and intelligent, but it really just makes you sound like a six-year-old with a large vocabulary. At the very least, you could make them funny.

Yes, I'd probably be avoiding the issue if I were you, too.

And really, if I'm such an idiot, then why are you wasting your time by continuing to reply? Someone as intelligent as you should be aware of the fact that the only person worse than an idiot is someone who tries to argue with one.

Evidently, I'm not as intellectually insecure as you. And I'm not "wasting my time," I'm sat in my study on a nice quiet afternoon with my feet up browsing the internet. This is recreation. Try to stay on-topic please, if you must keep replying to me.

[Sumez]

And now: Torquay





Wow!