Too close for comfort? the revival?

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'm still waiting for my Nuggets.

Service here is terrible.

[Nasirosuchus]

You made a silly comment implying that acknowledging nobody owes you free videogames is some kind of character flaw. I and at least one other guy disagreed. There's little to discuss, really.

And seriously - I don't care about the morality or ethics or what have you of emulation itself. It's just not that important a subject to me. A boring ice-cold ethical potato as opposed to the scalding-hot one some consider it, you know? I do like to watch those people chuck said hot potato back and forth occasionally, though.

Whether a person should be able to play a game for free or whether they should or shouldn't but it after playing a ROM are both moral and ethical arguments and I think we can all agree that morals and ethics are completely subjective. As everyone has already given their point of view on the matter, it's pretty obvious that no one is going to change anyone else's mind on what's morally or ethically right or wrong, and making personal attacks on someone because he or she don't share your views just makes you look like a little kid who can't get his way.

The comment about no one being owed free video games is irrelevant as well as a strawman because no one ever claimed as such.

[moozooh]

I think BIL is dissing mjclark not because he pirates games and isn't ashamed of it, but rather because of the [moral!] justification he uses for it, which isn't just "I want to play games for free" which is what it boils down to. It's when it becomes "I want to play games for free because I have a reason for it" when it gets stupid.

[BIL]

Whether a person should be able to play a game for free or whether they should or shouldn't but it after playing a ROM are both moral and ethical arguments and I think we can all agree that morals and ethics are completely subjective. As everyone has already given their point of view on the matter, it's pretty obvious that no one is going to change anyone else's mind on what's morally or ethically right or wrong

Yes, that would be one reason why I've never bothered with this particular "debate." The other, more pressing one being I couldn't care less.

and making personal attacks on someone because he or she don't share your views just makes you look like a little kid who can't get his way.

Tell that to the guy who blew off a contrasting point of view by insinuating it was faulty thinking that'd lead to a career in fast food. Also, do note every so-called "personal attack" was just this same rubbish turned back at him. It was a shitty post, it got called out, please, don't make another torturous meal out of it.

I get now that mj didn't mean any harm, really. Sumez had the better idea. I didn't plan on posting in here again.

The comment about no one being owed free video games is irrelevant as well as a strawman because no one ever claimed as such.

What would you infer from mjclark's response quoted in this post? That people shouldn't feel entitled to emulate?

I think BIL is dissing mjclark not because he pirates games and isn't ashamed of it, but rather because of the [moral!] justification he uses for it, which isn't just "I want to play games for free" which is what it boils down to. It's when it becomes "I want to play games for free because I have a reason for it" when it gets stupid.

Honestly, I was only taking a potshot at the idea that not carrying around a sense of entitlement about "free stuff" is bad.

[Elixir]

Holy fuck, the shmup genre would be dead by now if it wasn't for emulation, i.e. pirating.
Just stfu content-mafia supporters plz and return to topic.

The rhythm genre is largely dead and has people pirating material such as HDD dumps. You don't see Konami releasing IIDX, Guitarfreaks, Pop'n Music, Drummania, DDR or Para Para Paradise for PS3/360.

However, you have the shooting genre, with developers creating new and ported material with additional features and sometimes region-free releases for western audiences to access, on a western created console. So how does your implying of, "[people] pirating/playing imitations (the definition of emulation itself) of Japanese material discourages game developers from continuing their involvement within the genre" make any sense?

Justification of piracy is pretty funny to watch, but try to understand that it's the offenders who are trying to do the justifying. It's simply as cut-and-dry as buying a game in order to play a game. You can sugarcoat your piracy by pirating material and proceeding to purchase it afterwards, but this is absurdly illogical considering you're using piracy as a medium of decision.

As for me, I really don't care if you pirate games (and I believe PAL regions are more entitled to do so given the delays and high prices), but don't brag about that shit online, you're just making yourself look bad, as an individual, as a member. It's against the rules of this forum for a reason.

[yosai]

Without emulators and MAME this forum would have less members.

[mjclark]

http://youtu.be/68nrURpTDOM

[Uzumakijl]

Nice song

[Nasirosuchus]

Tell that to the guy who blew off a contrasting point of view by insinuating it was faulty thinking that'd lead to a career in fast food. Also, do note every so-called "personal attack" was just this same rubbish turned back at him. It was a shitty post, it got called out, please, don't make another torturous meal out of it.

It was a shitty post because he didn't tell them what they wanted to hear? Yeah, you can make arguments about how wrong it is, but those same arguments can indeed be awfully self-righteous. The fact is, no matter which side is taken, most people don't really have any interest in anyone's opinion except for their own, so perhaps he started with the sarcasm because he realized this.

What would you infer from mjclark's response quoted in this post? That people shouldn't feel entitled to emulate?

I would infer that he was alluding to how pointless it is.

I think BIL is dissing mjclark not because he pirates games and isn't ashamed of it, but rather because of the [moral!] justification he uses for it, which isn't just "I want to play games for free" which is what it boils down to. It's when it becomes "I want to play games for free because I have a reason for it" when it gets stupid.

Honestly, I was only taking a potshot at the idea that not carrying around a sense of entitlement about "free stuff" is bad.

That's still an argument about morals and ethics which are, again, completely subjective.

[Nasirosuchus]

The rhythm genre is largely dead and has people pirating material such as HDD dumps. You don't see Konami releasing IIDX, Guitarfreaks, Pop'n Music, Drummania, DDR or Para Para Paradise for PS3/360.

Your point? Are you saying that those dumps are to blame for the death of the genre? Certainly it has nothing to do with change in tastes and/or that developers saw that there was more profit to be made in other ventures

Justification of piracy is pretty funny to watch, but try to understand that it's the offenders who are trying to do the justifying. It's simply as cut-and-dry as buying a game in order to play a game. You can sugarcoat your piracy by pirating material and proceeding to purchase it afterwards, but this is absurdly illogical considering you're using piracy as a medium of decision.

It can be at times, but many of the arguments against it are pretty damn stupid as well, especially the ones made by those within the industry.

As for me, I really don't care if you pirate games (and I believe PAL regions are more entitled to do so given the delays and high prices), but don't brag about that shit online, you're just making yourself look bad, as an individual, as a member. It's against the rules of this forum for a reason.

There will always be people who look down on some of the things that we do no matter what they may be, and then there will be people who either agree or just don't care. For example, there are plenty of people who would say that you look bad for being so self-righteous about something that really isn't even that important.

The reasons it's against the rules of the forums aren't so much because of whether it's morally right or wrong but moreso because the people in charge want to avoid any potential legal trouble.

[burgerkingdiamond]

All I know is that I've spent a TON of money on building a shmup collection in the past 2-3 years, and it basically ALL comes down to MAME. If you're in the west how else would you even be expected to hear about the bullet hell genre?

[dunpeal2064]

All I know is that I've spent a TON of money on building a shmup collection in the past 2-3 years, and it basically ALL comes down to MAME. If you're in the west how else would you even be expected to hear about the bullet hell genre?

I lve in the west, own a jap 360, and no version of MAME or any arcade emulator.

I learn plenty about a game via these forums and youtube, and if it sounds fun, I buy it. If I don't like it, I re sell it on these forums for little to no loss.

Then again, I'm not the kind of person that feels entitled to try an entire game with no limits before buying it, because, as a hard-working contributer to society, I like to pay people for their hard work.

Thats just me though. I'm not gonna go get angry that a bunch of people I don't know are getting something for free that I paid good cash for.

All I really want is to geek out and talk video games with some folks

[Nasirosuchus]

All I know is that I've spent a TON of money on building a shmup collection in the past 2-3 years, and it basically ALL comes down to MAME. If you're in the west how else would you even be expected to hear about the bullet hell genre?

I lve in the west, own a jap 360, and no version of MAME or any arcade emulator.

I learn plenty about a game via these forums and youtube, and if it sounds fun, I buy it. If I don't like it, I re sell it on these forums for little to no loss.

Then again, I'm not the kind of person that feels entitled to try an entire game with no limits before buying it, because, as a hard-working contributer to society, I like to pay people for their hard work.

Thats just me though. I'm not gonna go get angry that a bunch of people I don't know are getting something for free that I paid good cash for.

All I really want is to geek out and talk video games with some folks

That's fair AND honest.

[Elixir]

oh great, a mediator.

[dunpeal2064]

oh great, a mediator.

If thats aimed at me, my intention wasn't to mediate. Just to point out how cute you all are with your arguing with no chance of actually fixing anything.

If I'm gonna get my panties in a bunch, it'll be over something that I can actually affect and find really important, like fighting hunger or disease.

As it is, my life isn't so boring that I need to come argue morals on the internet. You all argue all you want, but I try to have fun with my free time, especially when we are talking about video games.

Life is complicated enough as it is.

[Zeron]

I find it baffling that this thread has not been locked...

[DrTrouserPlank]

..and I find it baffling that I still haven't got my Nuggets yet.

[dunpeal2064]

..and I find it baffling that I still haven't got my Nuggets yet.

Still never specified the size on that Sprite either.

Its like dealing with a bunch of animals!

[BIL]

It was a shitty post because he didn't tell them what they wanted to hear?

No, it was a shitty post because it apparently suggested it's a problem to not go through life expecting handouts and free rides.

I would infer that he was alluding to how pointless it is.

LOL. How pointless what is, emulation? Be specific.

Honestly, I was only taking a potshot at the idea that not carrying around a sense of entitlement about "free stuff" is bad.

That's still an argument about morals and ethics which are, again, completely subjective.

Thank you Mr. Holmes, I am well aware. But in that case I'm more than happy to object because I personally dislike it when people go around expecting handouts. Note that even then my reply will be tastefully limited to something along the lines of "LOL STFU BRO" (see my first post in this thread).

I find it baffling that this thread has not been locked...

If you can't take the too close for comfort, stay out of the kitchen.

[Udderdude]

Well this thread has gone off the deep end, so here's a picture of a cat being shot at by the rebels on Hoth.

[DrTrouserPlank]

..and I find it baffling that I still haven't got my Nuggets yet.

Still never specified the size on that Sprite either.

Its like dealing with a bunch of animals!

I find the concept of a lemon-lime hybrid drink both ethically and morally objectionable.

[Horacechin]

Well this thread has gone off the deep end, so here's a picture of a cat being shot at by the rebels on Hoth.

WOW that's so awesome.

[Drum]

All I know is that I've spent a TON of money on building a shmup collection in the past 2-3 years, and it basically ALL comes down to MAME. If you're in the west how else would you even be expected to hear about the bullet hell genre?

I lve in the west, own a jap 360, and no version of MAME or any arcade emulator.

I learn plenty about a game via these forums and youtube, and if it sounds fun, I buy it. If I don't like it, I re sell it on these forums for little to no loss.

Then again, I'm not the kind of person that feels entitled to try an entire game with no limits before buying it, because, as a hard-working contributer to society, I like to pay people for their hard work.

Thats just me though. I'm not gonna go get angry that a bunch of people I don't know are getting something for free that I paid good cash for.

All I really want is to geek out and talk video games with some folks

I have paid money for every single game its possible to pay money for via collections and such but I prefer to play all those games via MAME (or console emulation) partly for convenience's sake and partly because the emulation is, almost without exception, better. I play plenty of roms that aren't available to purchase and have no problems doing so. I have discovered so many great games via emulation - virtually all my favourite classics. I love emulation but piracy pisses me off. When the rights to the games aren't held by the original creators I find out what the creators are doing and buy their latest work. I bought Lufia DS because I found out the lead designer of Wibarm, a game I never paid for, worked on it. When I found Owen Rubin (creator of Major Havoc) has a site that said how he could be compensated for his old work by donating to a certain food bank, I donated - but I didn't bother buying Major Havoc from XBLA because Atari isn't even a shell of its former self. When its not clear who the money goes to, I pay for the game just in case.

Nasirosuchus: Please no more.

[Nasirosuchus]

No, it was a shitty post because it apparently suggested it's a problem to not go through life expecting handouts and free rides.

You're making a hasty generalization.

We're talking about video games here, not a free ride through life. Is it really that big of a deal? Are people dying because of copyright infringement? Are there food shortages because of copyright infringement? Are wars breaking out because of copyright infringement? Is the environment being destroyed because of copyright infringement?

LOL. How pointless what is, emulation? Be specific.

The pointlessness of continuing to bring morality into the argument when it's subjective and obviously won't change anyone's mind.

Honestly, I was only taking a potshot at the idea that not carrying around a sense of entitlement about "free stuff" is bad.

When mjclark(and others) bring up that they never would have bought it anyway, that statement is meant to count the argument that's often made by the industry that every download equals a lost sale. In other words, it's a financial/economic argument, so to counter it with a moral argument about whether or not people should or shouldn't be obligated to buy something is what looks rather silly.

Thank you Mr. Holmes, I am well aware. But in that case I'm more than happy to object because I personally dislike it when people go around expecting handouts. Note that even then my reply will be tastefully limited to something along the lines of "LOL STFU BRO" (see my first post in this thread).

Again, we're talking about video games here. Video games. To personally attack someone and demonize them as a thieving a pirating ingrate because they don't share your views is ridiculous.

I really don't think that the world is any danger because of some techno geek's hacked game and dumped ROM collection. Seriously, the fact that it goes against what you've brought to believe is morally right notwithstanding, does it really have any tangible effect on your life that people whom you'll never meet outside of a video game forum are playing said games without paying for them?

Who cares?

[Naglfar]

Well this thread has gone off the deep end, so here's a picture of a cat being shot at by the rebels on Hoth.

Crazy dodging there, is that cat one of those Japanese players?

We have to derail this before someone loses an eye. All the points everyone wants to make have been clearly established, everything else now is hopeless bickering. And here are those nuggets.



Sorry it took so long, we were held up by pirates.

[Drum]

No, it was a shitty post because it apparently suggested it's a problem to not go through life expecting handouts and free rides.

You're making a hasty generalization.

We're talking about video games here, not a free ride through life. Is it really that big of a deal? Are people dying because of copyright infringement? Are there food shortages because of copyright infringement? Are wars breaking out because of copyright infringement? Is the environment being destroyed because of copyright infringement?

LOL. How pointless what is, emulation? Be specific.

The pointlessness of continuing to bring morality into the argument when it's subjective and obviously won't change anyone's mind.

Honestly, I was only taking a potshot at the idea that not carrying around a sense of entitlement about "free stuff" is bad.

When mjclark(and others) bring up that they never would have bought it anyway, that statement is meant to count the argument that's often made by the industry that every download equals a lost sale. In other words, it's a financial/economic argument, so to counter it with a moral argument about whether or not people should or shouldn't be obligated to buy something is what looks rather silly.

Thank you Mr. Holmes, I am well aware. But in that case I'm more than happy to object because I personally dislike it when people go around expecting handouts. Note that even then my reply will be tastefully limited to something along the lines of "LOL STFU BRO" (see my first post in this thread).

Again, we're talking about video games here. Video games. To personally attack someone and demonize them as a thieving a pirating ingrate because they don't share your views is ridiculous.

I really don't think that the world is any danger because of some techno geek's hacked game and dumped ROM collection. Seriously, the fact that it goes against what you've brought to believe is morally right notwithstanding, does it really have any tangible effect on your life that people whom you'll never meet outside of a video game forum are playing said games without paying for them?

Who cares?

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Stop.

[mizuiroRSG]

Well this thread has gone off the deep end, so here's a picture of a cat being shot at by the rebels on Hoth.

Crazy dodging there, is that cat one of those Japanese players?

We have to derail this before someone loses an eye. All the points everyone wants to make have been clearly established, everything else now is hopeless bickering. And here are those nuggets.



Sorry it took so long, we were held up by pirates.

DATS EPIC

[neorichieb1971]

I care if you pirate videogames. In my perfect world you would be slammed to the wall and lashed with a whip 50 times.

In the real world. The tool to copy, exploit and *uck over anyone exists to freely use. Therefore like anyone said its a pointless exercise trying to change anyones mind.

[sorhp]

I haven't laughed so hard in a long time, I mean tears laughing!... Everyone is so serious, then from left field, the damn cat dodges the laser attacks every time!

[emphatic]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Stop.

Great argument.