Shmup Junkie & friends rank every Sega Saturn STG

[Acid]

He's such a frustrating individual. His passion and his work ethic are incredible, and there's nobody else out there really doing teardowns like he does. His video on the changes made to the Demon's Souls remake was deliciously in-depth, and really put a spotlight on the misgivings and mistakes the team made in their remake efforts in a way that no other games journalist has done.

Check this guy's stuff out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e19OMrxV0m0

[DMC]

I really liked the decision Shmup Junkie made to outsource the reviews. This video was one of his best.
I think Junkie is best as a producer and editor, and he knows very well how to frame these short reviews, but I think his gameplay perferences differ quite from mine (e.g., he's less into hi scoring) and his opinion are a little safe, so I find it more interesting to listen to most of the others reviewers here if I'm honest.
Pearl's 1940, Spider's Panzer Dragoon, and Boghog's Ray series reviews were all very informative and interesting. Pearl's comment about skipping 1942 alltogether, for example, was funny and not something Junkie would say.
Mark is more of an opinionated essayist, exaggerating a bit to make a point sometimes, but can still be interesting. I think Junkie should have just insisted on Mark making a more accessible intro on DDP's chaining system and the generational bullet hell stuff before delving into the arcade accuracy parts. But I still thought it was interesting to listen to.

[Johnpv]

He's such a frustrating individual. His passion and his work ethic are incredible, and there's nobody else out there really doing teardowns like he does. His video on the changes made to the Demon's Souls remake was deliciously in-depth, and really put a spotlight on the misgivings and mistakes the team made in their remake efforts in a way that no other games journalist has done.

BUT

He's also just insufferable and lives on this bizarre pedestal of "the right way" to play something. Just so much insecure posturing and preening over his elite status wears thin. I rarely finish one of his videos, or at least have to skip around to get to the bits worth listening to.

It's really the second part for me, I enjoy a technical review and analysis as much as the next person, but he just puts himself on such a fucking pedestal and can't get his head out of his own ass.

[Austin]

I was looking forward to this video and then Mark_MSX showed up. That dude just annoys the hell out of me.

Yeah, I jumped ship when he popped up in the video.

[Flashman]

I was looking forward to this video and then Mark_MSX showed up. That dude just annoys the hell out of me.

Yeah, I jumped ship when he popped up in the video.

I said this in your Discord Austin, but that Final Fight video which has just dropped, I got maybe half way in and I literally cannot fathom what his point is; he seems to be making comparisons to Devil May Cry... quite why, I'm not so sure.

He does do some good videos from time to time though - I rather enjoyed his 1cc attempts on Radiant Silvergun and corresponding video. But generally he's a skip for me.

[Creamy Goodness]

Loved the video overall, but feel like it would appeal mostly to people who had a Saturn back in the day as most of the games are ports and these days you can play the actual arcade versions of the majority of the games very easily.

As for Mark_MSX, I can let the whole contrarian/high and mighty vibe slide if it wasn't for the unnecessarily long videos. Having a review of a game that is longer than the actual game is a little much. I like the 1cc commentary videos though.

[StoneofTriumph]

I said this in your Discord Austin, but that Final Fight video which has just dropped, I got maybe half way in and I literally cannot fathom what his point is; he seems to be making comparisons to Devil May Cry... quite why, I'm not so sure.

He does do some good videos from time to time though - I rather enjoyed his 1cc attempts on Radiant Silvergun and corresponding video. But generally he's a skip for me.

I do like that one video that was basically just a plea for ZUN to please, please, please hire an artist, but the only thing I learned from his Final Fight video is that he doesn't quite seem to grasp that Dark Souls isn't a coin-operated arcade beat-'em-up.

[neat_beans]

[accidental double post]

[neat_beans]

I was rewatching this again recently so have updated the OP with a couple of extra notes I missed the first time around.

I did the threads for the previous videos, thanks for taking up the load here. I know it takes time.

I've revisited those threads you put together more times than I care to admit, so you're welcome!

I've seen his own video on the DDP ports and watched the stream of him playing the Saturn version, and while I understand why he's being critical about changes to a game near & dear to his heart, I agree he was overly harsh. To the point where it felt a little engagement-baity. If it's not my Saturn game with the most hours played, it's gotta be close. It still feels great to pick up & play and while you can toss stuff like Batsugun & Garegga on the pile, to me it feels like the one true full-on bullet hell in the Saturn's library. Anyone who enjoys playing on the hardware would be doing themselves a disservice skipping it over.

I agree - a game can be an inaccurate port and still a good time. Plenty of home conversions have revised their source material for a console audience and ended up better for it, like Gradius III SNES, Fire Shark MD or Akai Katana X360. I'm certainly not claiming DDP Sat is an improvement or anything, but it's by his own admission such an inaccurate port to the point of feeling like a different game, and it's unique in the library for being a 'true' bullet hell as you say. It deserved a fairer shake IMO.

I can't believe people still think Radiant Silvergun is better on Saturn when honestly, getting a copy and a Saturn feels like everyone's white whale to this day.

What makes the Xbox 360 / Switch ports better?

TBH, before watching, I was wondering if RSG might not get a top rank in this video. Sure it used to be infamous among importers for its secondhand market prices (which are actually rather tame now), but most of the discussion I've seen online about its gameplay revolve around how its chaining & level-up mechanics alongside a 1hr+ length make it exhausting to actually play/learn. That was my own experience with it, and Junkie's own video on 'brutal Saturn Shmups' made much the same point. Does anyone actually like playing this game rather than just owning it?

[xEbb1993x]

It’s literally the same game on the Saturn. But I’m not gonna go all Captain Ahab and hunt for a copy of the game like it’s Moby-Dick. I’m done with that now that I have it on Xbox Live.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Silvergun is not the same game on SAT, at all. The 360 version is pretty much what you'd call a remake.

[xEbb1993x]

Either way, the 360 version is enough for me. I’m not gonna go hunting for the Saturn version even if it’s superior.

[Austin]

but most of the discussion I've seen online about its gameplay revolve around how its chaining & level-up mechanics alongside a 1hr+ length make it exhausting to actually play/learn. That was my own experience with it, and Junkie's own video on 'brutal Saturn Shmups' made much the same point. Does anyone actually like playing this game rather than just owning it?

It's probably still my favorite STG to this day, so yeah, people enjoy it just to play it.

It's slightly over 40 minutes long in an arcade mode run. 60+ for a Saturn/Story mode run, but that seems rather masochistic to me. People really should just stick with a specific route in arcade mode if they're worried about learning the game being too daunting.

Chaining isn't entirely necessary. Recommended, 100%, but even then you can get away with just chaining red enemies on the first stage, then you're pretty much good from there.

Silvergun is not the same game on SAT, at all. The 360 version is pretty much what you'd call a remake.

It has some QOL improvements on the interface, not to mention translated story and cutscenes, but the Story and Arcade modes are basically the same as the Saturn game. You can even tweak the visuals to use the original HUD and low-res, dithered visuals if you want to mimic the original look (just don't play on a CRT, I'm pretty sure the game is made for HD and is letterboxed on an old TV). Perhaps some tiny extra input lag aside, there's no [good] reason to invest in the Saturn one unless you have more money than you know what to do with, or are a mega-fan that just has to have it in your collection.

[Bassa-Bassa]

2D graphics and most textures were remade/resampled at higher resolution, and there's the "Ikaruga" mode.

Despite being higher res, 2D graphics are never "HD", so they're still scaled when displayed on an HD panel. So the SAT version (and AC) is the only one to get non-scaled visuals, and full screen display. The original is a nice-looking game on a low res CRT (I wonder indeed how popular would it be with Night Raid-level visuals), the remake's still nice-looking, just not as much.