Shmup Junkie & friends rank every Sega Saturn STG

[neat_beans]

Long time lurker and no-time poster here! I just finished watching Shmup Junkie's latest feature-length epic where he reviews and ranks every shooter on the Sega Saturn, this time with guest reviewers from other well-known shmuptubers in the community.

I came here to see if the final rankings had been documented anywhere and saw that they hadn't, so figured I'd do it myself for the benefit of anyone else interested. I'll also include notes crediting the guest reviews, references to port comparisons, and names of games reviewed within collections where not obvious from the game title (he makes a point that the other non-shmup games included won't influence his ranking). Without further ado:

S+

Spoiler

Darius Gaiden (guest review by Bofner)
Layer Section a.k.a. Rayforce (guest review by Boghog)
Radiant Silvergun (guest review by Mark_MSX) - says it's the definitive version thanks to lowest lag over Xbox 360, Steam & Switch

S

Spoiler

Battle Garegga
Cotton Boomerang
Dezaemon 2
Panzer Dragoon Zwei (guest review by Spiders_STG)
Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus - says Sat = PS1, no notable differences beyond slightly grainer FMV intro on Sat
Sexy Parodius - says Sat = PS1, any differences are "just nitpicking"
Soukyugurentai - says Sat > PS1 as the latter has issues with slowdown and arcade inaccuracies
Thunder Force V - says Sat > PS1 for visual issues on the latter
Twinkle Star Sprites (guest review by Pearl)

A+

Spoiler

Batsugun
Fantasy Zone (guest review by Pearl)
The Game Paradise! a.k.a. Game Tengoku!
Gokujo Parodius Da! Deluxe Pack - says Sat > PS1 since PS1 has some odd resolution cutting on Da. Both games individually are S-tier but lack of extras from the SFC version in Da! and no button remapping ("inexcusable by this time") marginally lowers the score
Jikkyo! Oshaberi Parodius - says Sat = PS1 and both preferable to the SFC original; doesn't make any comparisons of the exclusive content (Extra mode vs Accident stages) between ports
Metal Black - says it's the definitive home conversion due to visual issues on PS2
Thunder Force Gold Pack 2 - notes audio reproduction issues on IV compared to MD original, but extra ship and removed slowdown "almost make it worth owning both"

A

Spoiler

Cotton 2 - says that 2 and Boomerang are mechanically different enough to warrant experiencing both
Detana Twinbee Yahho! Deluxe Pack - says Sat = PS1, no noticeable differences, would rate Detana an A- and Yahho an A+ alone and the only thing stopping the collection getting an S is the lack of Tate mode
Gradius Deluxe Pack - says Saturn = PS1, but lack of extras and his preference for the PC Engine versions drops the ranking
Guardian Force
Gunbird - says Sat > PS1 for actually including Tate
Hyper Duel
Image Fight & X-Multiply - says Sat version has scaling issues in Yoko not seen in the PS1 port, otherwise no differences noted
Konami Antiques MSX Collection (guest review by ShmupsBR)
Night Striker - says Sat > PS1 due to better draw distance and extra content
Sengoku Blade
Strikers 1945 - says Sat > PS1 for slowdown on the latter
Thunder Force Gold Pack 1 - MD > Sat due to muffled SFX and some other audio quirks, no reason to own if you have both the originals, but games play flawlessly so "still a great port"
Wolf Fang - Sat > PS1 for additional stage and cleaner visuals

A-

Spoiler

Kingdom Grand Prix
Shienryu

B+

Spoiler

Capcom Generation Vol. 1 inc. 1942, 1943 & 1943 Kai (guest review by Pearl)
Gun Frontier (guest review by Ak's Arcade)
Sonic Wings Special - says Sat = PS1, except for the PAL PS1 version since it doesn't save your progress
Strikers 1945 II - says PS1 > Sat for oddly large hitbox on the latter
Tempest 2000 - says he probably prefers Jaguar > Saturn overall as the changes aren't necessarily upgrades

B

Spoiler

Blast Wind (guest review by Ak's Arcade)
Bokan to Ippatsu! Doronbo Kanpekiban
Capcom Generation Vol. 3 inc. Exed Exes, Vulgus, Son Son
Capcom Generation Vol. 4 inc. Gun.Smoke
Galaxy Force II
Kyukyoku Tiger II Plus
Panzer Dragoon (guest review by Spiders_STG)
Williams Arcade's Greatest Hits

B-

Spoiler

3 Wonders inc. Chariot
Darius II (guest review by Bofner)
Donpachi (guest review by Mark_MSX) - says PS1 > Sat by a small margin for better graphics and sound
Gekirindan - says the arcade game is a B+ but let down by a poor porting job
Skull Fang
Steam Heart's

C+

Spoiler

Cho Aniki: Kyūkyoku Otoko no Gyakushū
G-Vector
In The Hunt - PS1 > Sat for the latter's horrendous slowdown
Midway Presents Arcade's Greatest Hits: The Atari Collection

C

Spoiler

Dodonpachi (guest review by Mark_MSX) - says Sat = PS1 but ultimately neither port is worth playing
Layer Section II a.k.a. RayStorm - says it's an S-tier game but PS1 > Sat due to issues with transparencies, slowdown and audio on the latter and better exclusive content on the former

C-

Spoiler

Macross: Do You Remember Love?
Sol Divide
Space Invaders

D

Spoiler

Sky Target
Terra Cresta 3D

F

Spoiler

Planet Joker

Unranked - "But there's more!"

Spoiler

GalaXmas
Shmup Salad - says it's "the best of these homebrews"
Sky Blaster
After Burner II & Space Harrier - says these are the most arcade accurate home conversions
Mobile Suit Gundam - says not really a shmup, and not really a good game either
Keio Flying Squadron 2 - says not a shmup but contains shmup stages, though not a scratch on the original

Overall it's a monumental task to review this many games and Junkie's done it with his usual brand of infectious hype and zeal. I've only played about 1/5th of the games listed here, but of the ones I know I don't see many rankings I disagree with. I'm surprised Sokyugurentai didn't get an S+ ranking as one of the major remaining Saturn exclusives - arguably Layer Section and Darius Gaiden are now best played on PS4 as part of their respective collections - but I can settle for an S lol.

That said, Mark_MSX's review of Dodonpachi stands out as overly harsh. He's entirely correct to point out the substantial arcade inaccuracies, but it would've also been nice for him to give his standalone thoughts on what he calls the "Saturn Arrange" - rather than just making the same observations from his earlier port comparison video and writing it off entirely. No way is it worse than Steam Heart's

[SePh1r0tH]

Definitely an enjoyable watch and a lot of effort and time clearly goes into making these huge videos. I’ve played and own most of these games (a lot of them acquired on this site over the years).

I was super happy to learn about Dezaemon 2 and all of its downloadable “demos” or user made games. I’ve always read that this title was one to avoid mostly unless you had interest in creating your own STG.

IcarusFW has details on how to obtain these extras I assume on his YouTube channel. Will check it out once my copy arrives. Hopefully it works on real hardware or with a saroo!

[Bassa-Bassa]

Are they really saying something it hasn't been said already in places like this for decades now or is it that these days nobody likes reading? Honest question -I'm not that much into Youtubers stuff- but seeing they apparently treat Gradius DP or Gokujou Parodius equally on SAT and PS1 makes me wonder if so much pomp is really deserved.

[SuperDeadite]

Not gonna watch the video, cause his "style" gives me headaches, but Cotton 2 is a better game than Boomerang.

[XtraSmiley]

Neat Beans, thanks for the post, very cool of you to organize it for us!

I love his videos and actually would have enjoyed it if he had reviewed them all himself, but brining in the other reviewers was a neat idea. Of course no one is going to agree with a list of every game and how they compare, but it was definitely a great watch over a few days.

I'm going to have to check out some of these games on MiSTer now...

[neat_beans]

Are they really saying something it hasn't been said already in places like this for decades now or is it that these days nobody likes reading? Honest question -I'm not that much into Youtubers stuff- but seeing they apparently treat Gradius DP or Gokujou Parodius equally on SAT and PS1 makes me wonder if so much pomp is really deserved.

The primary purpose of the video is to rank and review the entire console's library, which I'm not aware of anyone having done before. The port comparisons are more of a bonus - they admittedly do range from pretty thorough (Raystorm, Tempest, Donpachi series) to fairly superficial (Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius has exclusive content that could've definitely been discussed and I know Sexy has transparency issues on Saturn - but maybe that's the "nitpicking" he meant).

While anyone who's been living and breathing this stuff for decades is unlikely to learn of any 'hidden gems' in a library as well-documented as the Saturn, I'd say it's still fun to get opinions from genuine genre enthusiasts (rather than clout-hunting collectors). And as a resource for new players getting into the genre, videos like these are uniquely excellent for introducing the platform's highlights.

[AGermanArtist]

I hate that fucking cycling hat.

[hamfighterx]

That said, Mark_MSX's review of Dodonpachi stands out as overly harsh. He's entirely correct to point out the substantial arcade inaccuracies, but it would've also been nice for him to give his standalone thoughts on what he calls the "Saturn Arrange" - rather than just making the same observations from his earlier port comparison video and writing it off entirely. No way is it worse than Steam Heart's

Absolutely wild that, if we're talking about dropping the score for Saturn ports of otherwise good games that have technical issues/inaccuracies with the port, Saturn GEKRINDAN is ranked above DoDonPachi (TBH, I was clicking through the spoilers waiting to see Gekrindan near the very bottom of the list).

I'm glad to see the video putting everything in one place, really nice resource. As is this excellent list, thanks neat_beans!

[davyK]

It's well known that Mark hates the DoDonPachi port but he's 2-ALLed the game. For anyone on normal skill level it deserves a better rating than that.

[1KMS]

.

[it290]

Tempest 2000 - says Jaguar > Saturn as former version is more arcade-accurate

The original game was made for the Jaguar. Tempest 2000 was never an arcade game.

[neat_beans]

Tempest 2000 - says Jaguar > Saturn as former version is more arcade-accurate

The original game was made for the Jaguar. Tempest 2000 was never an arcade game.

You're absolutely right, thanks for pointing that out - updated now.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Tempest 2000 - says Jaguar > Saturn as former version is more arcade-accurate

The original game was made for the Jaguar. Tempest 2000 was never an arcade game.

You're absolutely right, thanks for pointing that out - updated now.

On the PSX, Tempest 2000 was released under the name of "Tempest X3" with development done by High Voltage Software -- it does have support for the Namco NeGcon controller as well.

----------
On the Sega Saturn & Sony Playstation consoles, the USA region ports of "In The Hunt" were done by American video game publisher, Kokopeli Studios, which was a subsidiary of T-HQ. As it is, ItH was their only video game software title to be released on both the SS & PSX consoles before "going under" making it truly a rare video game title collectible indeed. The PSX port of ItH has a bit more user adjustable game options compared to the SS port of the same name.
----------

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[xEbb1993x]

I can't believe people still think Radiant Silvergun is better on Saturn when honestly, getting a copy and a Saturn feels like everyone's white whale to this day. And Darius Gaiden is far from the best game of the franchise. CS blows everything else out of the water.

[MJR]

I can't believe people still think Radiant Silvergun is better on Saturn when honestly, getting a copy and a Saturn feels like everyone's white whale to this day. And Darius Gaiden is far from the best game of the franchise. CS blows everything else out of the water.

You are, of course, fully entitled to your wrong opinion

[xEbb1993x]

You are, of course, fully entitled to your wrong opinion

Hey, me gunning for Radiant Silvergun for the Saturn used to be my white whale too, but it was impossible to begin with! Getting it on Xbox Live was merely a blessing! And CS combined everything good about Darius and made it one huge title!

[Firehawke]

For someone who hasn't actually bothered to dig into it, I get the impression from replies here that saying PSX:Saturn in regards to Gradius DP is not correct; what would be the differences? I seem to recall someone telling me that the resolution on Saturn was a bit crushed, but that may not be right.

[Bassa-Bassa]

^I guess you mean my reply so yeah, you get no full-screen graphics on SAT (unless you enlarge the viewport, but that's not the same game) whereas you do on PS1, which, in the case of G2, comes off inexcusable since the former is able of the PCB resolution mode. But there're other minor differences like the BGM wisely played in real time by the SAT chips (allowing better loops when needed), improved loading times on SAT so the stage-to-stage transitions are almost seamless and it is said that the PS1 even has more uncalled slowdowns.

What I found more unsettling though is how its inaccuracies when you compare both versions with the PCBs don't seem to matter according to the OP. They're not as significant as those of the 'pachis, but I mean, you have all the freaking turrets on the floor not shooting at you on G2, whichever the stage, whichever the loop, whatever you do. Having a preference for the PCE versions already says they didn't play the originals that much, I guess. I haven't watched the video, though! Ranking by different persons depending on the game sounds a bit dumb.

[SavagePencil]

Tempest 2000 - says Jaguar > Saturn as former version is more arcade-accurate

The original game was made for the Jaguar. Tempest 2000 was never an arcade game.

No but it did include a modest recreation of the arcade game as one of its modes, which is what I assume they are evaluating.

[Augemitbutter]

happy to see people making great videos

[Sengoku Strider]

I came here to see if the final rankings had been documented anywhere and saw that they hadn't, so figured I'd do it myself for the benefit of anyone else interested.

I did the threads for the previous videos, thanks for taking up the load here. I know it takes time.

That said, Mark_MSX's review of Dodonpachi stands out as overly harsh. He's entirely correct to point out the substantial arcade inaccuracies, but it would've also been nice for him to give his standalone thoughts on what he calls the "Saturn Arrange" - rather than just making the same observations from his earlier port comparison video and writing it off entirely. No way is it worse than Steam Heart's

I've seen his own video on the DDP ports and watched the stream of him playing the Saturn version, and while I understand why he's being critical about changes to a game near & dear to his heart, I agree he was overly harsh. To the point where it felt a little engagement-baity. If it's not my Saturn game with the most hours played, it's gotta be close. It still feels great to pick up & play and while you can toss stuff like Batsugun & Garegga on the pile, to me it feels like the one true full-on bullet hell in the Saturn's library. Anyone who enjoys playing on the hardware would be doing themselves a disservice skipping it over.

I haven't watched the video, though! Ranking by different persons depending on the game sounds a bit dumb.

It's a 4 hour long video with a ton of quality editing that he had been working on for a long time, I'm pretty sure he first announced it more than a year ago. But he's talked about how life has pulled him away from YouTube, so I understand why he brought in collaborators who know particular individual games well in order to finally get it done. They're mostly all names anyone who follows shmup content creators will be familiar with, he didn't just haul in randos.

Having a preference for the PCE versions already says they didn't play the originals that much, I guess.

There's nothing else that has a vibe quite like the PCE, and given the extra content I think he's completely right to say its version of Gradius is better than the arcade. Gradius 2 is more debatable because of how much of the playfield gets cut off, but I think I personally still agree with him there too. Somewhere out there is a better worldline where we got an arcade card CD version of Gradius III.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I haven't watched the video, though! Ranking by different persons depending on the game sounds a bit dumb.

It's a 4 hour long video with a ton of quality editing that he had been working on for a long time, I'm pretty sure he first announced it more than a year ago. But he's talked about how life has pulled him away from YouTube, so I understand why he brought in collaborators who know particular individual games well in order to finally get it done. They're mostly all names anyone who follows shmup content creators will be familiar with, he didn't just haul in randos.

I mean, "rank every Sega Saturn STG" is the catch phrase. I'm not against different reviewers for different games, much the contrary, but for ranking them all in a list, it's pointless. The people ranking Darius Gaiden, Layer Section, or Twinbee DP, or Image Fight & X-Multiply so high just would have never placed the 'pachis so low for their inaccuracies if they know them well enough, and viceversa. I myself can perfectly understand and share why the 'pachis get below B - those are just lazy ports and the system was able of much more, but then all the aforementioned are at least below A as well. At the very least, they all should have agreed with the prerogative - reviewing them just by their qualities or as ports/alternate versions.

Another bit I don't quite understand - the Dragoons or Fantasy Zone qualify for the roundup but the Senjou no Ookamis or P. Daisakusen don't?

Having a preference for the PCE versions already says they didn't play the originals that much, I guess.

Gradius 2 is more debatable because of how much of the playfield gets cut off, but I think I personally still agree with him there too.

Misplaced extra stage, intro and extros is enough to forget about the smaller viewport, the severe slowdowns and sprite clipping, the palette and samples reductions, or the fake parallax?

[gray117]

Yeah great vid...

... I honestly thought maybe he'd had enough a while ago - but then he comes back with a few videos and now plus chums - opinions will vary (and that's part of the fun of watching these), but you can't really knock the quality content - cracking stuff.

[Flashman]

It was an enjoyable watch, and I can understand why Junkie chose this format (farming out the reviews to others, to reduce his workload) I know he's been struggling for time - quite understandably it's a hobby to him after all - to produce the videos and it did look like he was calling it quits entirely at one point.

For me though, there was a bit too much Electronic Underground in there, been his usual premadonna self - 25 year old ports of arcade games were not 1:1 accurate? There's a surprise, but I don't think it needed a 10 minute segment of ramming this home.

Overall a great video though, maybe not in the leagues of the really outstanding stuff from a couple of years ago, but it's good to have him back.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

25 year old ports of arcade games were not 1:1 accurate? There's a surprise, but I don't think it needed a 10 minute segment of ramming this home.

Yeah, the PS1 / N64 / Sega Saturn were not really necessarily going to be capable of 1:1 ports for newer games and treating them as worthless compared to the original arcade version kind of strips some of the historical context of the ports. Dreamcast has seen some very good ports (Giga Wing, Mars Matrix, GW2) but that's in part because it's a fairly strong system and very similar to the Naomi platform a lot of arcade games were released. Even on PS2 arcade ports still were a bit hit or miss with things like Giga Wing Generations. It was only really XB360 onwards where the hardware was strong enough that arcade emulation/porting started to really become amazingly good (RF Aces, many of CAVE's ports).

Back in the day before arcade emulation became convenient and widely available, I'm sure some of these ports would have been an amazingly fun way to scratch the itch if you couldn't make it to the arcade itself. The same is true of things like Outrun and Outrunners on the Genesis, compared to the original arcade versions they're clearly inferior, but in the context of the kid who'd otherwise have to dump tons of quarters to play them in the arcade, a home port was wild.

I'd only really be harsh on arcade accuracy on games released from the XB360 era onwards as we finally had the hardware strong enough that aiming for perfect accuracy was a reasonable expectation.

[charlie chong]

the thing that is funny is that guy uses runahead to play dodonpachi which isn't accurate anyway . if you played the pcb loads and then try playing it on retroarch with runahead you will quickly notice that chaining is more forgiving and you will make chains you couldn't make in the past.ship movement also feels different to the pcb so really i don't think he is qualified.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Runahead has never been a serious tool unless you know really well what you're doing. And only coders like those of M2 do.

[Johnpv]

I was looking forward to this video and then Mark_MSX showed up. That dude just annoys the hell out of me.

[Panorama Cotton]

I like the Electric Underground, but his style doesn't go along with this type of videos, he's too autistic to just do a quick review of a game in 3 minutes.

[Jonpachi]

He's such a frustrating individual. His passion and his work ethic are incredible, and there's nobody else out there really doing teardowns like he does. His video on the changes made to the Demon's Souls remake was deliciously in-depth, and really put a spotlight on the misgivings and mistakes the team made in their remake efforts in a way that no other games journalist has done.

BUT

He's also just insufferable and lives on this bizarre pedestal of "the right way" to play something. Just so much insecure posturing and preening over his elite status wears thin. I rarely finish one of his videos, or at least have to skip around to get to the bits worth listening to.