HDMI/VGA (downscaled) composite transcoder?

[vol.2]

So, any Kramers/Extrons(/TVCorios?) that do 240p VGA > Composite and/or 480p VGA > Composite?

Yes of course, but they are going to cost you $$$ and not lag free. The Super Emotia is probably the best bet, but it will be pricey and good luck finding a working one for sale.

RPi 4 adds cost to where I already have some old but capable PCs.

Much, much cheaper than the high quality conversion boxes will be.

GBS-C doesn't do Composite?

Can't remember, but you can always use an RGB to composite converter if it doesn't. Go ask over on the GBS Control thread for more info.


End of the day, you aren't going to get a cheap solution that is also good. Might as well choose something to spend money on and go with it. Orange's suggestion of getting into GroovyMister is probably the most sensible thing to do as it is extremely versatile and high quality and does whatever you want it to. It will solve problems that you don't know you have yet.

I went with a Pi4 a long time ago because I was interested in the ecosystem early on and I know how to poke around with the software and compile things to my liking. There would be a learning curve for someone who doesn't know how to set it up yet, and a Pi4 has some video output limitations that something like a Mister setup would not have and that you might run into.

Again, as Orange pointed out, your insistence on trying to use your "old PCs lying around" is not going to be the smartest way to do it and you will likely end up spending a bunch of money trying to get things going only to fight with emudriver or other things and maybe get it to your liking eventually (and maybe not).

Consider that your "old but capable PCs" are actually a sunk cost fallacy and go from there.

[kitty666cats]

The best possible composite you’re gonna get from Emudriver or a MiSTer would be an RGB to S-Video transcoder - and then you would want to chain it into an Extron YCS or YCS 100 for S-Video to composite. Kramer makes similar devices.

They don’t have the issues That the Wakaba video and other RGB to Svid+conposites have with the shimmering and rainbows etc on their composite outputs.

I believe it’s because the Extrons have a proper NTSC subcarrier or something. Not sure of the exact reason, but you’re gonna get really, really good composite.

This is also a PITA. But you will get true 240p.

[2mg]

Consider that your "old but capable PCs" are actually a sunk cost fallacy and go from there.

Thanks. I'm aware of that fallacy, didn't expect it tho.

Does any Ali/Bay VGA > Composite box actually convert to 240p or 480i?

The best possible composite you’re gonna get from Emudriver or a MiSTer would be an RGB to S-Video transcoder - and then you would want to chain it into an Extron YCS or YCS 100 for S-Video to composite. Kramer makes similar devices.

They don’t have the issues That the Wakaba video and other RGB to Svid+conposites have with the shimmering and rainbows etc on their composite outputs.

I believe it’s because the Extrons have a proper NTSC subcarrier or something. Not sure of the exact reason, but you’re gonna get really, really good composite.

This is also a PITA. But you will get true 240p.

Is there an actually good RGB > S-video transcoder?
Probably need a HV to C-sync combiner too for RGB > S-video?

YCS I saw being recommended over YCS 100 for some reason?
Which Kramers?

"This is also a PITA. But you will get true 240p." - agreed.

[vol.2]

Does any Ali/Bay VGA > Composite box actually convert to 240p or 480i?

Yeah, I would listen to what Orange said. The random Ali/Bay boxes will "work." But it is also true that the IC inside will be random as they tend to use just whatever they have a bunch of. Just buying a specific box isn't going to guarantee you a specific IC or even design inside. You could just do what some people do and buy a bunch of them and try them all and hope one is better than the others.


You can just get a GBS8200 and do the GBS Control thing. I mentioned this before because I think it's the best suggestion I have for you. It is powerful and pretty good quality. It does downscaling and it can adapt to different resolutions. If you want to do the thing you are trying to do without throwing a bunch of money at it, then I believe you are going to have to do some work in figuring out how to do something. Either that or take your chances with cheapo solutions and hope they work to your liking

[Josh128]

This thread man... I would like to get that authentic childhood Atari VCS experience from my PC or MiSTer. Anybody have any suggestions for an HDMI to RF converter and a high quality black and white TV?

[vol.2]

I think there's at least 2 or 3 workable suggestions at this point. Stick a fork in my ass and turn me over.

[Lord of Pirates]

You could always use the computers as is, ditch the composite idea, and then it wouldn't cost any extra . Use a CRT monitor and off you go.

This thread man... I would like to get that authentic childhood Atari VCS experience from my PC or MiSTer. Anybody have any suggestions for an HDMI to RF converter and a high quality black and white TV?

I had a post typed up a few days ago about 'why not RF?' and resisted.

[kitty666cats]

Consider that your "old but capable PCs" are actually a sunk cost fallacy and go from there.

Thanks. I'm aware of that fallacy, didn't expect it tho.

Does any Ali/Bay VGA > Composite box actually convert to 240p or 480i?

The best possible composite you’re gonna get from Emudriver or a MiSTer would be an RGB to S-Video transcoder - and then you would want to chain it into an Extron YCS or YCS 100 for S-Video to composite. Kramer makes similar devices.

They don’t have the issues That the Wakaba video and other RGB to Svid+conposites have with the shimmering and rainbows etc on their composite outputs.

I believe it’s because the Extrons have a proper NTSC subcarrier or something. Not sure of the exact reason, but you’re gonna get really, really good composite.

This is also a PITA. But you will get true 240p.

Is there an actually good RGB > S-video transcoder?
Probably need a HV to C-sync combiner too for RGB > S-video?

YCS I saw being recommended over YCS 100 for some reason?
Which Kramers?

"This is also a PITA. But you will get true 240p." - agreed.

Emudriver has the option to output csync. But there’s some of these converters that don’t need csync over VGA. This one may or may not.


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOocezD


This plus an Extron YCS or YCS 100 (the 100 is only bad if you want 240p composite to Svid. Svid to composite is fine).


Boom. Done.


For Kramer, right now on eBay there is

https://ebay.us/m/nSTeRu

https://ebay.us/m/DPaYEg




Please be aware I can’t 100% vouch for the Kramers, only the Extrons.



You could just use composite from that AliEx thing but Svid into a YCS to composite out is gonna look WAY better..


No idea why people are suggesting GBSC; you don’t need to downscale with Emudriver and GBSC doesn’t have composite or Svid out. My suggestion basically costs less than a GBSC alone.

[orange808]

...you don’t need to downscale with Emudriver...

OP is using an nvidia card. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[kitty666cats]

...you don’t need to downscale with Emudriver...

OP is using an nvidia card. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Egad! OP needs to just casually walk into any company and steal an Optiplex, then buy a $10 Radeon card on eBay babyyyyyy

[2mg]

You can just get a GBS8200 and do the GBS Control thing.

GBS8200 doesn't do S-Vid/Composite, neither as inputs or outputs (except those chinese clones that have varying quality inputs, but afaik no outputs, but I'd have to check for that on Ali, and if they do have outputs too, again, varying quality, maybe laggy, maybe no 240p, unknown to me).
So I'd still need either a scan converter to Composite.

Emudriver has the option to output csync. But there’s some of these converters that don’t need csync over VGA. This one may or may not.


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOocezD


This plus an Extron YCS or YCS 100 (the 100 is only bad if you want 240p composite to Svid. Svid to composite is fine).


Boom. Done.


For Kramer, right now on eBay there is

https://ebay.us/m/nSTeRu

https://ebay.us/m/DPaYEg




Please be aware I can’t 100% vouch for the Kramers, only the Extrons.



You could just use composite from that AliEx thing but Svid into a YCS to composite out is gonna look WAY better..


No idea why people are suggesting GBSC; you don’t need to downscale with Emudriver and GBSC doesn’t have composite or Svid out. My suggestion basically costs less than a GBSC alone.

Those Kramers are Y/C > Composite, and vice versa, I still need something to either convert VGA 480p/transcode VGA 240p...
If you're talking Ali VGA Y/C box > YCS Composite, I'm still at the mercy of an Ali VGA Y/C box, I'm just adding more to the chain for a somewhat better Composite signal.

That Ali link is dead for me, do you have another, or the name of the item?
Is it a converter, or a transcoder, and does it output 240p (and what does it take on input side)?

Yeah, GBSC only has Y/C and Composite inputs on those not-so-cheap clones, dunno if any of them have Y/C or Composite outputs, and from what I heard those "addon" inputs have varying degrees of quality, and potentially lag.

OP is using an nvidia card. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

OP (me) isn't using anything at the moment, the only thing I have is old-ish PCs and mostly Composite TVs.

I mentioned NV card just for shits and giggles so ignore it, and I'm interested in either CRTEmudriver VGA (ATi/AMD gpu) > Composite transcoders, or 480p VGA (any GPU) > Composite converters/downscalers that aren't extremely laggy and actually do 240p output.

Egad! OP needs to just casually walk into any company and steal an Optiplex, then buy a $10 Radeon card on eBay babyyyyyy

Please see above.

[kitty666cats]

I’ll try some more links for ya.

Again, if you’re a stickler for very good composite, you are totally wanna chain a Extron YCS. They aren’t very big and they are cheap. The encoders in all these RGB to Svid/CV all kinda suck for composite due to lack of subcarrier.


I suppose I will start off with my good friend John, I’ve suggested designs to him and he posts here whenever I make a thread about his new devices (such as his recent component to RGB over SCART and VGA. Only one I’ve seen that doesn’t have the issues all others have with Wii)

Anyway, here is his RGB to S-Video. In the late 90s and early 2000s these were all the rage in Europe and he sold TONS. Got a John Logie Baird award for em:

https://www.js-technology.com/store/ind ... er=product

But it’s SCART in and out, so you’d need some specific cables and adapters. Pricey, too (but you get what you pay for with John. One of the best electronic engineers I’ve seen when it comes to analog transcoders)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NOW, we have some nice compact stuff that should work very nicely -

I am gonna link some of Antonio’s; he’s the shit:

https://antoniovillena.com/product/vga- ... e-s-video/


https://antoniovillena.com/product/mike ... e-adapter/

~~~~~~~~~~~~



https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLnBp5H


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLfkyKx


https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806016451623.html


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMoj2Oj


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mM87UPl



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



https://www.ebay.com/itm/174151197805


^ designs are all pretty shit








AliExpress converters come and go all the time, I can post others in here when I see them.

Just don’t buy the AxunWorks one. It’s SOOOO “extra” hahahah

[2mg]

I’ll try some more links for ya.

Again, if you’re a stickler for very good composite, you are totally wanna chain a Extron YCS. They aren’t very big and they are cheap. The encoders in all these RGB to Svid/CV all kinda suck for composite due to lack of subcarrier.


I suppose I will start off with my good friend John, I’ve suggested designs to him and he posts here whenever I make a thread about his new devices (such as his recent component to RGB over SCART and VGA. Only one I’ve seen that doesn’t have the issues all others have with Wii)

Anyway, here is his RGB to S-Video. In the late 90s and early 2000s these were all the rage in Europe and he sold TONS. Got a John Logie Baird award for em:

https://www.js-technology.com/store/ind ... er=product

But it’s SCART in and out, so you’d need some specific cables and adapters. Pricey, too (but you get what you pay for with John. One of the best electronic engineers I’ve seen when it comes to analog transcoders)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NOW, we have some nice compact stuff that should work very nicely -

I am gonna link some of Antonio’s; he’s the shit:

https://antoniovillena.com/product/vga- ... e-s-video/


https://antoniovillena.com/product/mike ... e-adapter/

~~~~~~~~~~~~



http://aliexpress.com/_mLnBp5H


http://aliexpress.com/_mLfkyKx


https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806016451623.html


http://aliexpress.com/_mMoj2Oj


http://aliexpress.com/_mM87UPl



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



https://www.ebay.com/itm/174151197805


There’s also this guy but he’s a dick with a scat fetish and hangs out with a real depraved group from a CRT Discord into diaper stuff and lewd drawings of baby animals. And his designs are all pretty shit








AliExpress converters come and go all the time, I can post others in here when I see them.

Just don’t buy the AxunWorks one. It’s SOOOO “extra” hahahah

Go check my original post, I've also linked a ton of these, also all your Ali links are 404 or "nothing found".
The Wakaba converter is unfortunately NTSC only, I need PAL too.
VGA2NTSC is also only NTSC, original Chi and jnftech versions.

Antonio and RetroHax composite transcoders are meant to be powered from VGA pin 9 5V.
I've contacted them about my "setup" and they said these ought to work, RetroHax' needs a sync combiner afaik.
But VGA pin 9 sometimes has low or dirty power, and if using HDMI/DVI>VGA then there is no power at all, so I need to DIY some USB power to them, which is easy, but god forbid I mess something up...
They are also transcoders, 15khz in 15khz out, which is good for Emudriver setup, I'm still looking for some "better than chineseum box" converters.

[kitty666cats]

I edited my post; the AliEx links should be working now.

The JS Tech link, he also sells a PAL-only variant

https://www.js-technology.com/store/ind ... er=product

Definitely better than Chinesium! He is very communicative if you email him with questions


Also: if a HDMI to VGA uses external power, you should be good. They also sell ‘HDMI voltage inserters’ which simply add 5V to the HDMI signal.


https://a.co/d/dJyojLf


Things like this. I guess “injector” seems to be a more fruitful search query

[Josh128]

OK, being serious, your best bet might be to get the latest PCIe ATI Radeon card with a native SVIDEO output and use a passive SVIDEO>Composite cable. You wont have to do any transcoding that way.

HD 4850 seems to fit the bill [[**EDIT - I think it only outputs component from the 7 pin connector, might need to go back to 2000 series for SVid /composite out]] and should be compatible with GroovyMAME/CRTemuDriver. HD 2900 should also work. You will need to be running Windows XP or Windows 7 64bit. Are there lagless component to composite transcoders out there? If so, the 4850 plus the 7 pin HDTV cable + transcoder could still be a viable solution.

https://usermanual.wiki/AMD/4850.1308126806.pdf

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145135499853?_ ... BM1un4ntll





https://www.amazon.com/S-Video-Composit ... merReviews



http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/v ... .php?id=47

Re: 4. CRT Emudriver
4.2. Supported cards and performance.

Only ATI Radeon video cards supported by CRT Emudriver. There are several versions of CRT Emudriver. You must select the one that fits your operating system and video card.

Under Windows XP, we support the range from the Radeon 7000 up to the Radeon HD 4xxx family, in either 32 and 64-bit versions of the operating system. Older cards are supported by the version based on Catalyst 6.5. Newer cards are supported by the one based on Catalyst 9.3. Some cards are supported by both 6.5 and 9.3 versions, in this case it's recommended to use the 9.3.

List of Catalyst 6.5-supported video cards:

ATI Radeon 7000, 7200, 7500, 8500, 9000, 9100, 9200, 9250, 9500, 9550, 9600, 9700, 9800, X300, X550, X600, X700, X800, X850, X1300, X1600, X1800, X1900, X1950, Arcade VGA 9200/9250, etc.

List of Catalyst 9.3-supported video cards:

ATI Radeon 9500, 9550, 9600, 9700, 9800, X300, X550, X600, X700, X740, X800, X850, X1050, X1200, X1300, X1550, X1600, X1650, X1800, X1900, X1950, HD 2350, HD 2400, HD 2600, HD 2900, HD 3200, HD 3300, HD 3400, HD 3410, HD 3450, HD 3550, HD 3570, HD 3600, HD 3610, HD 3690, HD 3730, HD 3750, HD 3800, HD 3830, HD 3850, HD 3870, HD 4230, HD 4250, HD 4350, HD 4550, HD 4570, HD 4580, HD 4650, HD 4670, HD 4730, HD 4750, HD 4800, HD 4850, HD 4870, HD 4890, etc.

Please note: Not every listed ATI Radeon model behaves optimally. The ones marked in red just cannot work under certain dotclock values and therefore the minimum displayed resolution is limited by it. There's a workaround for that which is explained in the Video Mode Maker section, but we particularly recommend the following video cards in case you can choose, since they have been confirmed not to have any low dotclock restrictions:

Radeon 7xxx, 9xxx (*)
Radeon X300, and probably other low-end models from the X series
Radeon HD 4xxx family

The following supported models are known to have low dotclock restrictions:

Radeon X series, except for X300 and probably other low-end models
Radeon HD 2xxx family
Radeon HD 3xxx family

(*) Ultimarc's Arcade VGA models based on these chipsets should be supported. Newer models like Arcade VGA 3000 are not supported.

Under Windows 7, we support the Radeon HD 2xxx, HD 3xxx and Radeon HD 4xxx families, only for the 64-bit version of the operating system.

Also notice that there're no performance differentiations between AGP- and PCI Express-based cards. Keep in mind, though, that the card must output an analog signal through either, VGA or DVI-I output. If the card happens to have both outputs, the one in use needs to be the primary output. As the cable you'll be using will likely have a 15-pin D-sub connector, you'll also need a DVI-I-to-VGA adaptor in order to use the DVI-I output if this happens to be the card's primary output (newer models).

[vol.2]

OK, being serious, your best bet might be to get the latest PCIe ATI Radeon card with a native SVIDEO output and use a passive SVIDEO>Composite cable. You wont have to do any transcoding that way.

I thought there was always some processing overhead for the PC video cards with an s-video output. Like they are doing the transcoding on the card or whatever. Idk, been a long time since I looked into that, but I remember people warning me off of it.

[Josh128]

Well, I may need to edit my previous post-- the 4850 contains a 7 pin DIN connector that most likely outputs only component video via a 7 pin HDTV cable accessory. Earlier models have S Video and composite out on the same 7 pin connector, so the 4850 might not work for him. He'd have to look for an earlier model unless he can procure a component to composite lagless transcoder. Hmmm....

https://usermanual.wiki/AMD/4850.1308126806.pdf

[vol.2]

https://usermanual.wiki/AMD/4850.1308126806.pdf

Yes, I believe that connector is not s-video at all. I think it's actually YPbPr.

Also, I'm still pretty sure that the cards which do have s-video have processing lag and the actual quality of the video output might not be that good as compared to using something external to do it.

[2mg]

I edited my post; the AliEx links should be working now.

The JS Tech link, he also sells a PAL-only variant

https://www.js-technology.com/store/ind ... er=product

Definitely better than Chinesium! He is very communicative if you email him with questions


Also: if a HDMI to VGA uses external power, you should be good. They also sell ‘HDMI voltage inserters’ which simply add 5V to the HDMI signal.


https://a.co/d/dJyojLf


Things like this. I guess “injector” seems to be a more fruitful search query

Regarding your links - these are all NTSC only (except JS Tech), and I presume they handle 240p since they are 15khz machines, but what about lag?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLnBp5H
RGB inputs/outputs have weird name, like what is "RGBS (H) - OUT" or what is "Support lotus head RGBS input."?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLfkyKx
No Composite (gotta find an YCS?), and those RGB potentiometers, I presume they can be lowered to 0.7Vpp (or 1Vpp), I don't wanna fry the TV?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806016451623.html
broken link

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMoj2Oj
broken link

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mM87UPl
Weird naming scheme, "S terminal" is that S-video maybe but no mention of Composite (tho it looks like it has it on the yellow output?), "N standard" I presume is NTSC, also what are those connectors on the input side (Y/R/W and R/G/B) since it says it takes only RGBS SCART and RGBHV VGA, also it lacks RGB potentiometers but apparently has a brightness setting, I presume that's the same thing?

https://www.js-technology.com/store/ind ... er=product
This one is complicated since it's SCART (RGBS/RGsB) to SCART (S-video), so I need VGA > SCART + sync combiner for input, and a simple SCART to Composite for output, and then an YCS? But does it handle 240p properly?

Someone said YCS 100 (compared to regular YCS) is either laggy and/or doesn't handle 240p properly, true?
Is YCS the only worthwhile S-video to Composite box, because it's old and I'd like to skip it if possible for something newer?

Regarding PAL in general, which I need, under which system do the work - PAL-B, PAL-G, PAL-I, etc, as these aren't interchangeable (especially if YCS does PAL)?

Regarding those HDMI voltage injectors - AFAIK the issue is that the "to VGA" transcoders apparently don't use/passthru Pin 9?

PS: If you know any worthwhile 400p/480p VGA > Composite converters lemme know.

OK, being serious, your best bet might be to get the latest PCIe ATI Radeon card with a native SVIDEO output and use a passive SVIDEO>Composite cable. You wont have to do any transcoding that way.

HD 4850 seems to fit the bill [[**EDIT - I think it only outputs component from the 7 pin connector, might need to go back to 2000 series for SVid /composite out]] and should be compatible with GroovyMAME/CRTemuDriver. HD 2900 should also work. You will need to be running Windows XP or Windows 7 64bit. Are there lagless component to composite transcoders out there? If so, the 4850 plus the 7 pin HDTV cable + transcoder could still be a viable solution.

https://usermanual.wiki/AMD/4850.1308126806.pdf

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145135499853?_ ... BM1un4ntll

https://www.amazon.com/S-Video-Composit ... merReviews

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/v ... .php?id=47

AFAIK any GPU that has S-Video and/or Composite can't output 240p thru those outputs, but correct me if I'm wrong!

Your links are broken btw.

https://usermanual.wiki/AMD/4850.1308126806.pdf

Yes, I believe that connector is not s-video at all. I think it's actually YPbPr.

Also, I'm still pretty sure that the cards which do have s-video have processing lag and the actual quality of the video output might not be that good as compared to using something external to do it.

See above, afaik you can't get 240p from those outputs too.

[jd213]

Right, I'm not too familiar with them but I had a card with S-Video out back in the day, and I believe it just converted everything to 480i. I assume it would do the same for 240p, but I'm not sure.

[Josh128]

True, but nobody had CRTEmuDriver to force 240p resolutions back in the day, so who knows? In any case, I'd be willing to bet that the 48XX series that outputs component via the 7 pin port WOULD be able to output 240p, because it is capable at a minimum of multiple HD resolutions.

[2mg]

True, but nobody had CRTEmuDriver to force 240p resolutions back in the day, so who knows? In any case, I'd be willing to bet that the 48XX series that outputs component via the 7 pin port WOULD be able to output 240p, because it is capable at a minimum of multiple HD resolutions.

I still need composite, not component.

[vol.2]

I still need composite, not component.

I don't think there is currently a single device solution that will do what you want.

If you need something off-the-shelf for the RGB to composite step, get this one with the sync combiner version and pair it with your favorite device that outputs 15kHz RGBHV. It uses an AD723, so it's a good one.

https://antoniovillena.com/product/vga- ... e-s-video/

[2mg]

I still need composite, not component.

I don't think there is currently a single device solution that will do what you want.

If you need something off-the-shelf for the RGB to composite step, get this one with the sync combiner version and pair it with your favorite device that outputs 15kHz RGBHV. It uses an AD723, so it's a good one.

https://antoniovillena.com/product/vga- ... e-s-video/

Yup, I'll prolly get those "Mister-like" ones and add USB power and cut pin9 just in case, maybe try one of those 15khz random ones from Ali/Bay that was also mentioned here.

Too bad about 480p > 240p composite boxes that aren't crap.

Fun fact I was starting to consider RPi4, found out it downclocks when using composite to cca RPi3B+ levels and has switchres issues. GPIO apparently with VGA/RGB hats also has some artifacts.

[vol.2]

Yup, I'll prolly get those "Mister-like" ones and add USB power and cut pin9 just in case, maybe try one of those 15khz random ones from Ali/Bay that was also mentioned here.

I'm not sure which those are. The device I linked above will provide excellent RGB to Composite (as good as it can get really). The datasheet for AD723 is not only in-depth, but also contains one of Analog Device's best application guides if you want to see exactly what it's capable of.

Fun fact I was starting to consider RPi4, found out it downclocks when using composite to cca RPi3B+ levels and has switchres issues.

Switchres has issues period. There's nothing specific about the Pi or the Pi4 in general that make it more of a pain in the ass to setup. The best approach is to install an old version of Pi OS from 2019 and then compile a version of RetroArch inside of the OS. That way you will be able to take advantage of dynamic recompilation and you won't have to worry about additional layers of the video subsystem like what Retropie introduces.

In any case, the Pi3's main issue isn't the system clock, it's that the pixel clock is not only capped, but it can't be arbitrary; there is some number that your clock must be a multiple of, though I haven't fucked with it in years and I don't remember the details. The Pi4 has no such limitations; you can set the pixel clock to any wacky number you want and the system will respect it, and it will output exactly whatever graphic modeline you tell it to by setting it in the kernel. Outside of that, the Pi3 is actually fairly capable of most retro consoles up to but not including Playstation and N64. The Pi4 is at least twice as fast as the Pi3 clock for clock, and even fast if you consider dynarec. You will have more than enough horsepower with a Pi4.

GPIO apparently with VGA/RGB hats also has some artifacts.

Whatever you are reading is unreliable. Lots of people just can't setup the software correctly.

[2mg]

I'm not sure which those are. The device I linked above will provide excellent RGB to Composite (as good as it can get really). The datasheet for AD723 is not only in-depth, but also contains one of Analog Device's best application guides if you want to see exactly what it's capable of.

There's a few of these that I linked in this thread if you wanna take a look, ie RetroHax' one.
By RGB you mean RGBs instead of RGBHV, because Vilena has 3 versions of them and one is pretty much "use this, it has sync combiner too".

Switchres has issues period. There's nothing specific about the Pi or the Pi4 in general that make it more of a pain in the ass to setup. The best approach is to install an old version of Pi OS from 2019 and then compile a version of RetroArch inside of the OS. That way you will be able to take advantage of dynamic recompilation and you won't have to worry about additional layers of the video subsystem like what Retropie introduces.

In any case, the Pi3's main issue isn't the system clock, it's that the pixel clock is not only capped, but it can't be arbitrary; there is some number that your clock must be a multiple of, though I haven't fucked with it in years and I don't remember the details. The Pi4 has no such limitations; you can set the pixel clock to any wacky number you want and the system will respect it, and it will output exactly whatever graphic modeline you tell it to by setting it in the kernel. Outside of that, the Pi3 is actually fairly capable of most retro consoles up to but not including Playstation and N64. The Pi4 is at least twice as fast as the Pi3 clock for clock, and even fast if you consider dynarec. You will have more than enough horsepower with a Pi4.

1. Isn't Pi3B+ enough for PS1 at least (I've heard that it has lag for PS1 for some reason, but apparently performance is good)?
2. Pi4 must underclock when using composite, and it goes down to near Pi3B+ levels and has that new KVM stuff so it messes with mode switching in general.
3. Apparently Pi4's GPIO also has some weird issues.

Whatever you are reading is unreliable. Lots of people just can't setup the software correctly.

Random sources that got stuck in my head:
https://www.reddit.com/user/ErantyInt/c ... _your_pi4/
https://github.com/b0xspread/rpi4-crt

[kitty666cats]

Extron YCS 100 is fine for Svid -> composite, you just don’t want to use it the other way around (for games).

You could definitely just stick with one of the things specifically designed for games that also outputs composite. You don’t need RGB -> Svid -> composite.

And, come to think of it, since you’re using PAL you might not even need to worry about the rainbowing artifacts + dot crawl people normally get with those Antonio etc converters: AFAIK that issue is mainly from the lack of a NTSC subcarrier. But you’re not using NTSC.

P.S. JS Tech RGB to Svid does 240p fine.

[2mg]

Extron YCS 100 is fine for Svid -> composite, you just don’t want to use it the other way around (for games).

You could definitely just stick with one of the things specifically designed for games that also outputs composite. You don’t need RGB -> Svid -> composite.

And, come to think of it, since you’re using PAL you might not even need to worry about the rainbowing artifacts + dot crawl people normally get with those Antonio etc converters: AFAIK that issue is mainly from the lack of a NTSC subcarrier. But you’re not using NTSC.

P.S. JS Tech RGB to Svid does 240p fine.

I read, even on this board, that YCS is better than YCS 100 - something about their internals and how they treat 240p, but I need confirmation for this.
They also add cost, and people around here are saying old tech like those Extrons/Kramers usually need new PSUs and possible recapping, so even more DIY and cost.

JS Tech need RGBS/sync combiner on inputs, and SCART>S-vid cables I presume on outputs, and then I still need YCS, so basically I'm adding a long chain of hardware, while I can just settle for "whatever quality Composite, but low lag if possible".

Regarding those 15khz Mister optimized converters - apparently they have Ytrap/luma trap to improve the quality slightly anyway, and even if PAL has no issues, I don't really care much about what comes out of them.

[Lord of Pirates]

I think you're at or near the point where you're going to have to experiment and see what will give you results you find acceptable.

True, but nobody had CRTEmuDriver to force 240p resolutions back in the day, so who knows? In any case, I'd be willing to bet that the 48XX series that outputs component via the 7 pin port WOULD be able to output 240p, because it is capable at a minimum of multiple HD resolutions.

I have an X700 Pro (running on XP) I could possibly test if someone wants to step me through what needs doing.

[Bema]

Extron YCS 100 is fine for Svid -> composite, you just don’t want to use it the other way around (for games).

You could definitely just stick with one of the things specifically designed for games that also outputs composite. You don’t need RGB -> Svid -> composite.

And, come to think of it, since you’re using PAL you might not even need to worry about the rainbowing artifacts + dot crawl people normally get with those Antonio etc converters: AFAIK that issue is mainly from the lack of a NTSC subcarrier. But you’re not using NTSC.

P.S. JS Tech RGB to Svid does 240p fine.

I read, even on this board, that YCS is better than YCS 100 - something about their internals and how they treat 240p, but I need confirmation for this.
They also add cost, and people around here are saying old tech like those Extrons/Kramers usually need new PSUs and possible recapping, so even more DIY and cost.

JS Tech need RGBS/sync combiner on inputs, and SCART>S-vid cables I presume on outputs, and then I still need YCS, so basically I'm adding a long chain of hardware, while I can just settle for "whatever quality Composite, but low lag if possible".

Regarding those 15khz Mister optimized converters - apparently they have Ytrap/luma trap to improve the quality slightly anyway, and even if PAL has no issues, I don't really care much about what comes out of them.

HI! A new member to the forum and probably my first post here. Thank You for the membership. First; I'm from Finland, so apologies if my English may be "rough". I'll do my best.

I recently acquired the EXTRON YCS transcoder and can confirm that 240p works through it from AV Famicom, NTSC NES and Sega Master System to my JVC pvm and Sony consumer Trinitron. I briefly tried NTSC Saturn for the s-video to composite route and that seemed to work too. I can recheck on request because that wasn't my route of choice, so honestly i didn't pay much attention, a quick test. But it seems whatever you read here or anywhere else, I can confirm that based on any knowledge the EXTRON YCS is your first choice (in the comparison between an YCS or YCS 100). Because even without confirmation about 240p on the YCS 100 the YCS IS confirmed. The psu fail is something that people probably confuse with the power adapter or I believe the power "brick" in the States, am I correct? Anyway, the adapter that plugs into the YCS or any other Extron device and from there to the wall outlet. The YCS can take the same power adapter that you can have for let's say a SNES in terms of the plug size and there on out the only thing you need to take care of is amperage and polarity. And those kind of adjustable properties on power adapters are everywhere. The plug size is something like a very generic 5,5 x 2,1 size. So the psu problem is something that can be fixed via DIY easy, fast & cheap. The caps can be problematic but my unit has everything running fine. Even if it's the age of the device or something that was caused by the power adapter failing, recapping is also something that can be easily learned and with less cost than you may think. I did so a few weeks back and it took me about 15 years to build the courage to start learning this skill. Now after recapping SNES, XBOX, fixing a Yamaha keytar and region-modding a Master System I feel really stupid about not doing it earlier. This hobby is costly, ridiculously costly at times, so it's logical to learn the tools and skills to make it less costly. Patience with anything with the prefix "retro" is more gold than gold itself.

I also have an EXTRON ISM 824 and those are big racksized units that can take rgbhv on bnc's and vga to bnc cables are common. They can output via their Scan Converter board the composite required. No sync voltage worries here for those interested. The composite output isn't shared with any sync line on the converter board. This is just an example named if someone is okay with a bigger device and they have the same need. I know that any Extron device sold used is a gamble technically and by availability; this is a "check it out if you come across one" thingie for the ISM. The typical Extron one frame of lag but a less discussed fun "box" from Extron for purposes such as this. It helped me to do the Extron rgb unit faux scanlines trick slightly better because it has a funky scaling option to push the size down to 240/288 lines (lines the correct naming?) that made the effect better. At 50Hz...

Lastly, I own the Tink 5X and could easily some day have the purpose for it as the OP. But I believe for my own purposes that simply is not the right device taking in consideration the same requirements as the OP has stated. The aforementioned is hypothetical for me since I try to collect different devices for different purposes but I'm also personally interested about this search of knowledge. Best of luck and I hope my first post here is of help to someone somewhere at least.