Question about Euroshmup

[To Far Away Times]

We need more shmups with in game shops. BareKnuckleRoo mentioned Drainus as an excellent example. I would also add in the very underrated Trouble Witches AC. Trouble Witches has a random assortment of bombs you can buy in shops with different properties, as well as extends or boosting your resource gauge or boosting your resource recharge time. Your currency is tied to how well you score. It’s a cool mechanic when done right.

[Lemnear]

ahah the incrimanet phrases was:
"Standards for how a shmup should play came late to the west"

I'd disagree with that statement. Stuff like 1942, Terra Cresta, Slap Fight or R-Type were the main source of inspiration for these Euro devs before the 90s. The 90s were a bit more unfocused since the arcades gradually stopped supporting the genre, but many of the liberties they took could already be seen in the 80s.

What were the first SHMUPS to come to the West? (with a worldwide release at launch or shortly after). Both as arcade and console. Some were undoubtedly more influential than others, but is that because they were the only ones to come to the West or not?

I never said that Ikaruga is a Euroshmup, but that all the praise that has been woven over the years was precisely because it has overtuned all the principles of a standard SHMUP known up to that time.

That's more than a stretch as well. Besides, I wonder how much of that praise would have been there with Mars Matrix' audio and visuals, to name a contemporary one.

Among gamers (generic gamers, not shmups, not arcade), Ikaruga is known, while Mars Matrix almost not at all... same thing for almost everyone else.


However, I don't see how a Shop between one stage and another could be so negative...

[Bassa-Bassa]

This thread, I believe, is proof that well-implemented shops are more than welcome and the feature doesn't define the Euro style per se. Focus on customization and management does, though, as it usually goes together with a non-arcade structure.

What were the first SHMUPS to come to the West? (with a worldwide release at launch or shortly after). Both as arcade and console. Some were undoubtedly more influential than others, but is that because they were the only ones to come to the West or not?

Most arcade STGs from the 80s (and 70s) had Western releases, though there's a clear gap there between the US and Europe. Import/bootleg releases were also usual in many countries. Obviously, for anything to be influential it had to come somehow.

I never said that Ikaruga is a Euroshmup, but that all the praise that has been woven over the years was precisely because it has overtuned all the principles of a standard SHMUP known up to that time.

That's more than a stretch as well. Besides, I wonder how much of that praise would have been there with Mars Matrix' audio and visuals, to name a contemporary one.

Among gamers (generic gamers, not shmups, not arcade), Ikaruga is known, while Mars Matrix almost not at all... same thing for almost everyone else.

So you're just agreeing with me?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

ahah the incrimanet phrases was:
"Standards for how a shmup should play came late to the west"

I'd disagree with that statement. Stuff like 1942, Terra Cresta, Slap Fight or R-Type were the main source of inspiration for these Euro devs before the 90s. The 90s were a bit more unfocused since the arcades gradually stopped supporting the genre, but many of the liberties they took could already be seen in the 80s.

What were the first SHMUPS to come to the West? (with a worldwide release at launch or shortly after). Both as arcade and console. Some were undoubtedly more influential than others, but is that because they were the only ones to come to the West or not?

I never said that Ikaruga is a Euroshmup, but that all the praise that has been woven over the years was precisely because it has overtuned all the principles of a standard SHMUP known up to that time.

That's more than a stretch as well. Besides, I wonder how much of that praise would have been there with Mars Matrix' audio and visuals, to name a contemporary one.

Among gamers (generic gamers, not shmups, not arcade), Ikaruga is known, while Mars Matrix almost not at all... same thing for almost everyone else.


However, I don't see how a Shop between one stage and another could be so negative...

For Lemnear,

In the West, both Taito's Space Invaders up-right cab circa 1978 made it's way to the USA arcades (courtesy of Taito of America's arcade subsidiary of parent company, Taito of Japan) and had an Atari VCS/2600 release for it's home game console release. You could say the same thing with Bally Midway's arcade game of Galaxian (licensed through Namco) in American arcades back in 1980 and subsquentially released for the Atari VCS/2600 and Atari 5200 Super System consoles later on. Here's a 1/4th scale Taito Space Invaders cab replica that's playable: https://stoneagegamer.com/official-tait ... binet.html

You might recall when the American arcade licensee/distributor, Fabtek, brought Raiden stateside to arcades back in 1990-1991 and it's Raiden II sequel to arcades in early February of 1994 -- the home game console port of "The Raiden Project" (with both Raiden & Raiden II included) on Sony's Playstation gaming console was a U.S. PSX launch title when the console launched for it's debut back in September of 1995. It was a quite a big deal at the time back in 1995 with the ability to properly tate both Raiden & Raiden II arcade stgs (they aren't 100% arcade accurate-wise with some minor differences compared to their original arcade jamma pcb counterparts but still fun to play nevertheless) at home with The Raiden Project console port handled by Seibu Kaihatsu developer/publisher themselves.

Eventually, I did buy the PSX port of The Raiden Project marked down on clearance for a mere $19.99 usd brand new back in October of 1997 from the local Kay-B Toys store -- still have it in my PSX gaming collection to this very day. Broke down and bought a Fabtek USA region Raiden II jamma pcb later on as I wanted to be able to play it at my leisure on both a supergun & candy cab setup -- it doesn't any better than playing Raiden II as it was meant to be played on real arcade hardware at it's best.

It wasn't until Hamster finally released it's ACA port of Raiden considering that it was the very first time that an 100% accurate arcade version of it appeared for home gaming console use -- prior to that, it was either play the PSX port, on Mame or own/play the actual Raiden jamma pcb itself. Hamster has yet to release an ACA port of Raiden II whether that may be in 2025 or possibly even later down the road, it's eventual arrival will be met with such joy & passion for it -- the wait & anticipation for it continues on.

As with the Hamster ACA port of the Seibu Kaihatsu SPI "Viper Phase 1" released back in December of 2024 for the PS4/PS5 & Switch gaming platforms, that's the very first time that it has gotten a proper home gaming console release -- prior to that, it was either play it via emulation on either Mame & Final Burn Neo or own/play the actual SPI arcade cart of VP1 itself (the USA region SPI cart of VP1 U.S.A. has an exclusive "two loop" feature thay's not present with it's Japanese counterparts of VP1 "Old Version" nor on the updated VP1 "New Version" either). Of course, Fabtek had released brand new arcade jamma pcb conversion kits of VP1 U.S.A. (complete with a full-sized arcade marquee included) during it's initial grand debut in American arcades back in September of 1995 -- it was quite something to see/play at that particular moment in time, indeed, especially for a brand new arcade stg title/IP offering. I do own the highly desired and coveted SPI cart of VP1 U.S.A. myself and very rarely does it pop up for sale on the secondary arcade game collector's market nowadays.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Acid]

Euro shmups let you shoot hotdogs out of a flying carrot.

[Austin]

To the OP, how old are you, and how long have you been playing shoot 'em ups? That can give us better insight as to your level of experience (and a better understanding of your perspective). Some of us are dinosaurs, while many of you are not. Our perspectives are going to be vastly different to younger folks, as we actually lived through the evolution of this genre (and videogames as a whole). For some of us, we understand why certain design principles are in place and where they evolved from. It's interesting to hear some of them referred to as "bad game design", where many of us don't see it as such. It is interesting to have our perspectives challenged.

You speak of long games being a good thing. Unfortunately, back in the day, that really only worked well for PC shmups where you could save your progress between levels. Raptor, Tyrian, Stargunner, etc (early '90s, MS-DOS era). That sort of thing didn't exist for arcade or console STGs at the time. Though in fairness, those STGs generally were developed with arcade design sensibilities, games that are better in short bursts with full runs lasting 30 to 45 minutes tops. Console STGs during the 8/16-bit eras in particular wouldn't even so much as much as save your scores, so implementing longer experiences was unlikely to ever be a thing. Though in hindsight it would have been neat if there was a Raptor-style console STG released that at least had password saving. I'm not aware of any that existed during those console generations.

[-Fish-]

We need more shmups with in game shops. BareKnuckleRoo mentioned Drainus as an excellent example. I would also add in the very underrated Trouble Witches AC. Trouble Witches has a random assortment of bombs you can buy in shops with different properties, as well as extends or boosting your resource gauge or boosting your resource recharge time. Your currency is tied to how well you score. It’s a cool mechanic when done right.

Best recent shmup with a shop system is Ganablade on Steam. It's integrated perfectly.