Question about Euroshmup

[WitnessOfTheFall]

Hi !

I often see the rather pejorative remark "Euroshmup" which highlights the poor quality of a shmup game. I would like to know more about it.

What game example best represents the concept of Euroshmup ?

And also what are the classic Euroshmup mistakes ?

I'm asking this because I recently received the comment that my fan game smells like Euroshmup. Something I would like to understand in order to improve ^^ .

Can you enlighten me please ?

[visiblyshak3n]

Check out https://shmups.wiki/library/Euroshmups. It has a good description and examples. Some examples are Tyrian or Xenon II.

Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with the design features present in those games and they can be fun. But the biggest offender these games have is movement with added inertia. It doesn't feel precise.

[WitnessOfTheFall]

Thank you for the link

I think I understand better. In the list of games cited as Euroshmup, I found that there were some that looked quite decent (Raptor: Call of the Shadows or Jets'n'Guns).

So, Euroshmup can be a derogatory term but especially for purists of American/Japanese shmups in which we often have:

• Rains of bullets (Like in Gigawing or Ikaruga).

• And a bomb system that allows you to cancel shots on screen.

I don't want to be controversial but honestly, I think this bomb system which cancels all the shots on the screen is boring...
More precisely, it's not that I hate the noise or visual effects that come with them, but this feature seems like laziness to me on the part of the developers... because it compensated for clumsiness in balancing the difficulty of each level.

Developer : Come on, are there too many bullets and monsters on the screen? Is it impossible to dodge!? Dunno. But No need for me to bust my ass to balance difficulty or enemy waves.
No, the player will just have to use a bomb!

As if as a player I have to worry about repeating a level X times in order to understand if it's achievable with or without a bomb??

I totaly accept the existence of this mechanic on arcade shooters (I'm not going to go into details, but I understand the business model is not the same, the games are short and unless you have 1000 euros to spend, the player will rarely have the desire to make a perfect, but rather to go as far as possible in the game or maybe beat a high score).

But on a home console, the player can spend days playing without breaking the bank. The game should therefore be designed in such a way that the player gradually learns from his mistakes and perfects his skills, with the prospect of achieving a flawless performance in your favorite game, even at the highest level of difficulty.
And thus take pride in the satisfaction of having mastered the game 100%.

[Bassa-Bassa]

shmup fans accustom to the design standards of Japanese and North American to arcade games.

European studios releasing games that meet or exceed the standards of Japanese arcade titles (e.g. ZeroRanger, Gunvein, Jamestown, etc.)

as well as Japanese studios and fans releasing shooters that share multiple design characteristics with Euroshmups (e.g. [[Fantasy Zone, Gun-Nac, Area 88, etc.)

That wiki entry is quite something.


Sorry WitnessOfTheFall, I'm not answering your question there. I don't think you've really understood it at all if you think arcade shooters aren't designed "in such a way that the player gradually learns from his mistakes and perfects his skills, with the prospect of achieving a flawless performance". Or that rains of bullets and smart bombs is what draws the line - R-Type (just to name a popular one) is a perfect example of Japanese style and you won't find any of those features on it either. The wiki entry may have a misleading introduction but the definition section is really on-point. Maybe you need to play some stuff and see by yourself first off.

[Rastan78]

I don't want to be controversial but honestly, I think this bomb system which cancels all the shots on the screen is boring...
More precisely, it's not that I hate the noise or visual effects that come with them, but this feature seems like laziness to me on the part of the developers... because it compensated for clumsiness in balancing the difficulty of each level.
a level X times in order to understand if it's achievable with or without a bomb??

In Japanese arcade shmups it's almost always possible to clear any stage or boss without bombs.

As a beginner it can be tough to find strategies. Maybe check out some 1CC or high level scoring replays for reference on a specific game in question to help you along?

[WitnessOfTheFall]

R-Type (just to name a popular one) is a perfect example of Japanese style and you won't find any of those features on it either.

Yes, R-type and also Thunder Force games are indeed Japanese style but do not follow the clichés of the genre (rain of bullets, smart bombs).
I was making a generalization in the same way as those who created the "Euroshmup" label. I haven't checked, but I suppose that there are shmups designed in Europe which faithfully reproduce the Japanese/American model.

For example, I got the Astro Mini V (https://www.the-pixels.com/2022/10/27/s ... 22-review/). I'm having fun with it. But most of these aracde games are shmups with the clichés I mentioned above.

In Japanese arcade shmups it's almost always possible to clear any stage or boss without bombs.

As a beginner it can be tough to find strategies. Maybe check out some 1CC or high level scoring replays for reference on a specific game in question to help you along?

You guessed it right, I'm not an expert player. For example, Thunder Force IV, my favorite game of all time, I still can't finish it 1CC in Maniac (The best I did was get to Stage 8 )?

And your idea of ​​watching 1CC replays is a good one. But that's also what makes me say that I don't really appreciate the smart bomb gimmick (And also the gimmick of weapon bonus which switches type when you wait before catching it). At the time these games were released, there was no Let's Play 1CC. It is therefore complicated to improve alone for the reasons that I cited in my previous message. Whereas if I take Thunder Force IV, the weapon bonuses are generally placed to be used at the moment we grabbed the bonus. Personally, I see this as proof of a more controlled level design.

Finally, even if I don't like smart bombs and the "bonus that changes weapon type before catching it" (is there a shorter name in the shmup vocabulary ?), that doesn't stop me from enjoying playing games that use these gimmicks, it's just that I place them a level below games like Thunder Force, Elemental Master or R-Type

[To Far Away Times]

The main difference between a normal shmup and a Euroshmup is that a normal shmup is designed from the ground up to be cleared on one credit, whereas Euroshmups usually feature several bad design choices that compound into messy and generally thoughtless game design.

A bomb in a bullet hell game does not mean that it is covering for bad difficulty balance. When I made my own bullet hell game, and put a lot of thought into enemy placements and bullet patterns. I had a vision for how the player would be pushed around the stage and where I thought they’d be when the next enemies spawn in. My game has a screen clearing bomb, but every single section can reasonably be no missed/no bombed.

Bombs are a resource you can use when you recognize that you’ve put yourself in a bad spot. Perhaps the player wasn’t willing to commit to a particular dodge and gets forced into the corner, so that is where bombs make a lot of sense.

Euroshmups, by contrast, aren’t designed with a one credit clear in mind. They often feature inertia (which serves no interesting gameplay purpose but makes movement much more difficult). Euroshmups often feature shop systems to power up your ship over many play throughs, since the devs don’t think clearing the game is exciting enough, so they have to provide the excitement through currency systems and upgrades. A Euroshmup might feature many cutscenes and a long campaign. Euroshmups also tend to have basic enemies with way too much health, and a very under powered player ship. Enemy placements will often just be repetitive waves of enemies with no real thought put into how these enemies push the player around the stage.

Now, a shmup from the EU is not always a Euroshmup. Razion EX has rock solid fundamentals and is a great game. I would never consider that game a Euroshmup.

It’s also important to note that a Euroshmup is not a “catch all” just for bad shmups. There are bad Japanese shmups and great European ones, but there is a common theme that many European games have some of the same game design flaws.

TLDR; Euroshmups are shmups made by developers who don’t understand game design.

[Lethe]

shmup fans accustom to the design standards of Japanese and North American to arcade games.

European studios releasing games that meet or exceed the standards of Japanese arcade titles (e.g. ZeroRanger, Gunvein, Jamestown, etc.)

as well as Japanese studios and fans releasing shooters that share multiple design characteristics with Euroshmups (e.g. [[Fantasy Zone, Gun-Nac, Area 88, etc.)

That wiki entry is quite something.

The talk page features a rival of even greater power:

This term is nonsensical and many early (and successful) Japanese shmups fit description. Zaxxon fits it, Alpha Mission fits it, Truxton, etc.That term is anachronistic and ignoring presence of many of these characteristics in Japanese productions that had both slow projectiles and "overly big player hitboxes" [Alpha Mission, Truxton, StarForce], shields (I leave it to you to list them). It's clearly coined by bullet hell crowd that barely know any productions before Batsugun and would get their asses kicked by Truxton or even pretty ancient Alpha Mission.

The virgin "Jamestown exceeds the standards of Japanese arcade titles" versus the chad "Tatsujin is a euroshmup and that's a good thing"

[BIL]

The game should therefore be designed in such a way that the player gradually learns from his mistakes and perfects his skills, with the prospect of achieving a flawless performance in your favorite game, even at the highest level of difficulty. And thus take pride in the satisfaction of having mastered the game 100%.

Iterative mastery and high-level performance have been the design ideals of Japanese arcade STGs, and JP arcades in general, since the late 70s. Space Invaders and Xevious are useful landmarks there. PS2 DaiOuJou, ESPGaluda, Psyvariar 1 & 2 and Raiden Fighters Aces all bundled superplay DVDs, their producers knowing their audience well. (amongst other 2000s releases that took advantage of the medium, like Ikaruga and Gradius V, and the Darius Rebirth, Ray'z, and Gun Frontier/Metal Black box sets, in addition to INH's entire catalogue; official VHS and LD superplays were very much a thing too, further back) The most acclaimed of these games were always designed with prestige performance in mind.

Star Force is another good example, creating a cottage industry of competition-based console STGs via Hudson and NAXAT's various Caravan and Summer Carnival titles. Incidentally, Thunder Force IV has a trivially easy infinite scoring exploit, fixed not by Tecno Soft in their own Saturn revision, but arcade port stalwarts M2, decades later.

Saying all this as someone at least as into console/PC games as I am arcade ones. Proud owner of TFIV and Elemental Master Mania no-death clears, not that EM's is anywhere near as tricky to pull off.

At the time these games were released, there was no Let's Play 1CC.

There were thriving game centers, and plenty of official media support via professional publications like Gamest and later Arcadia, as well as game-specific mooks, which are full of strategy content and developer insights. There was a communal aspect to these games' heyday that's it's largely fallen to the internet to uphold, nowadays. The famously community-driven Tower of Druaga is an apt microcosm here, but you can dig up similar tales of even relative obscurities like Grobda, let alone massive hits like Xevious and Gradius. Behold, The Legend of the National Battling Association.

the "bonus that changes weapon type before catching it" (is there a shorter name in the shmup vocabulary ?)

That one's canonically known as the Bouncing Powerup Bullshit. Connoisseurs will also cite the Donburi Ramen variant.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Yes, R-type and also Thunder Force games are indeed Japanese style but do not follow the clichés of the genre (rain of bullets, smart bombs).
I was making a generalization in the same way as those who created the "Euroshmup" label. I haven't checked, but I suppose that there are shmups designed in Europe which faithfully reproduce the Japanese/American model.

For example, I got the Astro Mini V (https://www.the-pixels.com/2022/10/27/s ... 22-review/). I'm having fun with it. But most of these aracde games are shmups with the clichés I mentioned above.

Hmm... Are you really ignoring the fact there's a whole history of horizontal scrolling shooters from Japan? That'd come off surprising from somebody who has Thunder Force 4 as his favorite game and uses the term 1CC, but if that's certainly the case, then yeah - there's a hell of a lot of horizontal scrolling shooters from Japan, you can believe that. You can believe as well that many of these do follow R-Type's model, or Gradius', or even Thunder Force 2's, so no rains of bullets nor smart bombs for all those. This particular history is so huge indeed that I wouldn't even try to give you random examples just because, but damn, I can't of many subjects with an easier research than this.

So yep, vertical scrolling shooters from Japan (which is what the V in Astro City Mini V ultimately stands for, btw) use to have a smart bomb feature. There're many which don't, anyway, but you can say it came and kind of stayed, indeed. When something stays after so many attempts and years of history, it must be a bit more than a nonsense gimmick, though. Look at it this way - it adds another layer of strategy. These games are indeed hard (that's a valid generalization, but still a generalization) and smart bombs are just another tool. Most of these games will reward the player for not using them, even.

As for rains of bullets, I believe that even the Astro City Mini has many samples where you won't find them, though I guess that depends in the end on every one's definition. Does Gunbird feature rains of bullets for you? Anyway, again, it's way more usual on vertical scrolling STGs as these usually lack terrain objects/foreground to collide with.

And, while we're on it:

Whereas if I take Thunder Force IV, the weapon bonuses are generally placed to be used at the moment we grabbed the bonus. Personally, I see this as proof of a more controlled level design.

They could give you the weapon at any previous moment so that you can find out where's the proper moment for it and still keep the same level design. They would just be adding some complexity. I don't follow, there?

Also, in case - Western 2D shooters from the 80's and 90's basically took Japanese games as the templates. Leaving early Atari apart, the genre just was pretty much ignored by US developers (so there never was an "American model"), and those from Europe who tried just added stuff to the formula with no success for the reasons To Far Away Times mentioned so well. Again, a generalization, but exceptions here worth mentioning are almost non-existent.

[emphatic]

Tell tale signs:
Popcorn enemies that take too many hits to kill
Player ship has inertia
Life meter to make up for overly dense (impossible to dodge) bullet patterns (trying to fix bad design while committing to the bad design)
Random enemies
Inferior to any similar game from Japan

[sumdumgoy]

x

[Weak Boson]

My understanding is that it's as simple as: those shmups which don't take arcade design philosophy as their foundation. This was a more common approach for european devs who were estranged from that tradition, hence the name; like JRPG/ CRPG, it's not a comment on the geographical location of the devs, but the approach to design.

It's not an inherently bad thing to try to make a game in a different style, but there were many mediocre games produced from blundering devs who didn't understand the terrain they found themselves on. Of course there are a great variety of styles of Japanese arcade games, many of which have their own design issues. What's really notable about euroshmups, though, is how they frequently made the same mistakes as each other without learning. Imagine if every week in your physics class, a new guy showed up claiming to have devised his own theory of gravity, only to immediately fall to his death from the roof. That's how it became a thing.

The one I always think of is X2.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Capcom/Takumi's CPS2 powered Mars Matrix circa 2000 was innovative with it's single fire button mechanics that allows the player to execute several different functions and did not feature a shop to buy things to help you out gameplay-wise (whereas with the Sega Dreamcast console release of MM does have a shop to buy items + an extra digit added to your overall score to stop the phenomena of "counter-stopping" that's well-known with the CPS2 arcade version of MM indeed).

Sure, Capcom's arcade game stg of Forgotten Worlds does feature an in-game shop selling items to help you out on your way to it's eventual conclusion -- even the classic PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 console stg title of Magical Chase has an in-game shop and even the PCE/TG-16 Super CD-Rom2 based stg of WInds of Thunder/Lords of Thunder has an in-game shop.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[WitnessOfTheFall]

First of all, thank you all for your answers. Now I definetely understand the concept of Euroshmup and what's more, I have lots of cool games to try now

When I made my own bullet hell game, and put a lot of thought into enemy placements and bullet patterns. I had a vision for how the player would be pushed around the stage and where I thought they’d be when the next enemies spawn in. My game has a screen clearing bomb, but every single section can reasonably be no missed/no bombed.

Yes, no doubt about that. I would not say that every time there are clearing bomb gimmick, that's mean developers were forcely lazy for me. I mean that there was a "possibility" to be lazy. Besides, it creates confusion. Am I playing a well designed game with clearing bomb ? Or am I playing a bad game where clearing bomb is a way to hide bad level design ?

Euroshmups, by contrast, aren’t designed with a one credit clear in mind.
They often feature inertia (which serves no interesting gameplay purpose but makes movement much more difficult).
Euroshmups often feature shop systems to power up your ship over many play throughs, since the devs don’t think clearing the game is exciting enough,
so they have to provide the excitement through currency systems and upgrades.
A Euroshmup might feature many cutscenes and a long campaign. Euroshmups also tend to have basic enemies with way too much health, and a very under powered player ship.
Enemy placements will often just be repetitive waves of enemies with no real thought put into how these enemies push the player around the stage.

Most of these aspects can make a shmup bad, indeed. Except for the long campaign and cutscenes stuff, in my opinion, the point goes to the euroshmup side.
I don't see the problem in adding background and story to a game if we can skip the scenes without compromising the understanding of the gameplay. The best is of course to tell a story through narrative design as Thunder Force II and IV do very well (and not Thunder Force III unfortunately).
But many of shmups don't bother with the design narrative, it's a critical aspect for me. The shmup gameplay manage to make me feel in "the zone" and if the game immerse me in its universe to the point of forgetting that I'm playing a video game, it will be the game of the year for me.

Incidentally, Thunder Force IV has a trivially easy infinite scoring exploit, fixed not by Tecno Soft in their own Saturn revision, but arcade port stalwarts M2, decades later.

I don't know that. Can I find video demonstrate that ?

There were thriving game centers, and plenty of official media support via professional publications like Gamest and later Arcadia, as well as game-specific mooks,
which are full of strategy content and developer insights. There was a communal aspect to these games' heyday that's it's largely fallen to the internet to uphold, nowadays.
The famously community-driven Tower of Druaga is an apt microcosm here, but you can dig up similar tales of even relative obscurities like Grobda,
let alone massive hits like Xevious and Gradius. Behold, The Legend of the National Battling Association.

No doubt about that. But I do not need all this stuff with most of the shmup game I really enjoy. That's the definition of a well designed game for me.

The one I always think of is X2.

Oh ! I played this game long time before. I can't explain why but it makes me feel weird, as if the seems cursed

[BIL]

Incidentally, Thunder Force IV has a trivially easy infinite scoring exploit, fixed not by Tecno Soft in their own Saturn revision, but arcade port stalwarts M2, decades later.

I don't know that. Can I find video demonstrate that ?

I'll see if I can find a video, but for now, here is the ancient lore. TLDR: milk the Strite enemy-launching midboss forever.

EDIT: Aaand dammit, our own Rastan78 found yet another infinite in the Switch version. I wonder if it was ever patched.

There were thriving game centers, and plenty of official media support via professional publications like Gamest and later Arcadia, as well as game-specific mooks,
which are full of strategy content and developer insights. There was a communal aspect to these games' heyday that's it's largely fallen to the internet to uphold, nowadays.
The famously community-driven Tower of Druaga is an apt microcosm here, but you can dig up similar tales of even relative obscurities like Grobda,
let alone massive hits like Xevious and Gradius. Behold, The Legend of the National Battling Association.

No doubt about that. But I do not need all this stuff with most of the shmup game I really enjoy. That's the definition of a well designed game for me.

I would call that depth. I think STGs that maintain their immediacy while being substantial enough to reward close reading by multiple competitors, and even professional exhibition plays, are the best of the field. Even if I don't necessarily enjoy playing one the most, and even if one is eventually tested to destruction, as with Battle Garegga. (green plane exploit, discovered almost twenty years into its lifespan)

It also depends what metrics you're going by, of course. From competitive perspective, TFIV is very obviously limited to survival play. I'd never call it a bad game though. I don't care about its scoring in the least. I just like going from Lightning Strikes Again to Stand Up Against Myself without my supercar-beautiful Rynex getting blown up and respawning. I've never even checked if my #1 Tecno Soft game Elemental Master has infinite milks. I would bet a whole tree fitty it does. I'd still regard it as a model of excellence in player/enemy balance, with its finely-measured frantic pace. Gun.Smoke is one of my favourite games of any genre, full-stop, and you can infinite it right from the first boss. Its excellence is not in scoring, or any formal design really, but a controlled corpse-stacking chaos that kills hesitators dead, no matter their preparedness level.

"Hesitation is defeat." ~ Winston Churchill
"You can't bluff your way through this one. Die." ~ Will Munny

To bring things back around, a Gun.EuroSmoke that fixed the scoring, but had zako take multiple hits apiece, and gave Billy movement inertia, would find itself not praised by me, but instead, express-mailed into freeway traffic.

[Rastan78]

EDIT: Aaand dammit, our own Rastan78 found yet another infinite in the Switch version. I wonder if it was ever patched.

Nope. Maybe someone should do a counterstop on the switch leaderboard so they get the message lol

IIRC after a couple hours you get a popup that says the replay recording time has run out

As far as depth, luckily most arcade genres have enough to support the need for strategy guides, tutorials, superplays, player to player sharing of strats etc.

To simplify things to the point where that's eliminated would alienate dedicated players. Then again there could be an argument made that by the late 90s or so things were getting too complex for the average player and devs began to cater to an ever-diminishing base of hardcore players.

[BIL]

Nope. Maybe someone should do a counterstop on the switch leaderboard so they get the message lol

Ah man 3; Thanks for confirming!

IIRC after a couple hours you get a popup that says the replay recording time has run out

Success!

[To Far Away Times]

I would call that depth. I think STGs that maintain their immediacy while being substantial enough to reward close reading by multiple competitors, and even professional exhibition plays, are the best of the field. Even if I don't necessarily enjoy playing one the most, and even if one is eventually tested to destruction, as with Battle Garegga. (green plane exploit, discovered almost twenty years into its lifespan)

Never heard of this one, what’s the exploit?

[mycophobia]

I would call that depth. I think STGs that maintain their immediacy while being substantial enough to reward close reading by multiple competitors, and even professional exhibition plays, are the best of the field. Even if I don't necessarily enjoy playing one the most, and even if one is eventually tested to destruction, as with Battle Garegga. (green plane exploit, discovered almost twenty years into its lifespan)

Never heard of this one, what’s the exploit?

here's a short video on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMazw9puRyM

but in brief, you can have a green ship in Cloud loop around you for like 20 minutes and then time out Black Heart's first couple of phases. this glitches out and freezes the scrolling during his final phase, and also glitches out the boss timer, so you can just shoot his wings forever

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

To answer the question properly, Euroshmup does not truly denote a game of bad quality. The name is very self-explanatory, it denotes a shmup made with European design principles, trends and standards.

The problem: Most of these gamedev decisions are seen as negative by the shmup community, and even historically, people who preferred japanese STGs would find western space shooters irksome. As the genre evolved over time, proper Euroshmups became more rare outside outside of slop games.

Thus, someone can call a bad shmup a Euroshmup even if it has nothing to do with the subgenre. The usage would essentially be by comparsion - "X is a euroshmup" merely being short for "X makes me feel as bad as I would if I were playing a euroshmup".

And yes, good Euroshmups do indeed exist. Take a gander at Tyrian and its spiritual successor Jets n Guns, for the most textbook examples out there. You will find them vastly different than the shmups boasted about here, but objectively bad? Not a chance. Great games.

So, I mentioned (by now historical) european gamedev practices, what are they?
• The worst: Unbalanced weapons, enemies with too much health, life bars and unavoidable damage, inertia movement, mouse control. (Standards for how a shmup should play came late to the west, resulting in many fresh and uninformed takes for the genre. The issues that plagued bad euroshmups were usually very different than that of an eastern 'kusoge' shmup. Take for example Thunderbolt II, a horrible bootleg game, and yet it has none of these issues. Good euroshmups typically either circumvented these issues or had ways to avoid experiencing them.)
• Trying to appear very serious. The prevelance of realistic-style graphics (sprite or otherwise), overdone or overly dramatic lore and a general sense of pride from the game. (Can mostly be blamed on marketing, overhyping and games-as-art culture gone wrong of the time)
• In-game shops. Somewhat tied to the first point, a powerup system tied to a shop, with money usually gained by killing enemies. Nothing is really wrong with this idea, but bad euroshmups resulted in this concept being linked to early levels being the hardest, most weapons being bait, and so on. (This was also used in some non euroshmups, the most famous probably being fantasy zone, there is nothing wrong with the concept inherently).
• Huge length. Euroshmups would often be longer affairs than their eastern counterparts, though there are exceptions on both sides of course.
• Big hitboxes, no bombs. Euroshmups usually did not practice the smaller-hitbox rule, with ships being exactly as they appear. This is, again, not a real issue, with real problems being in unavoidable attacks. Bombs were also rarely seen as a mechanic, though things with similar use pop up in a few games.
• Different pattern style. Before the idea of bullet hell was developed, Euroshmups usually stuck to stock patterns. Classic lasers, spreads, missiles, and so on. Indeed, it was not too uncommon to see a boss made out of glued-together parts that each shot a static projectile. Over time, this primitive design slowly gave way to more modern standards. While such design was seen historically worldwide, western shmups were on-average late to the party compared to jp when it came to moving on from it.

Finally, some interesting examples that can help with comprehension:
Apidya is a western shmup that was developed on purely non-euroshmup standards.
Cambria Sword is a modern indie shmup that incorporates many euroshmup standards not asosciated directly with bad quality.
Bioship paladin is an eastern shmup that suffers from several design decisions usually asosciated with euroshmups.
D-Force is widely considered as one of the worst shmups ever made, but not called a euroshmup, nor is it western.
Forgotten worlds is a jp game that features a shop and lifebars, yet not considered a euroshmup for lack of meeting other criteria.
Cy-Clone (a niche favorite of mine) for an example of a western game with clear euroshmup designs that's still enjoyable despite.
Play In the Hunt today

[Lemnear]

To answer the question properly, Euroshmup does not truly denote a game of bad quality. The name is very self-explanatory, it denotes a shmup made with European design principles, trends and standards.

The problem: Most of these gamedev decisions are seen as negative by the shmup community, and even historically, people who preferred japanese STGs would find western space shooters irksome. As the genre evolved over time, proper Euroshmups became more rare outside outside of slop games.

Thus, someone can call a bad shmup a Euroshmup even if it has nothing to do with the subgenre. The usage would essentially be by comparsion - "X is a euroshmup" merely being short for "X makes me feel as bad as I would if I were playing a euroshmup".

And yes, good Euroshmups do indeed exist. Take a gander at Tyrian and its spiritual successor Jets n Guns, for the most textbook examples out there. You will find them vastly different than the shmups boasted about here, but objectively bad? Not a chance. Great games.

So, I mentioned (by now historical) european gamedev practices, what are they?
• The worst: Unbalanced weapons, enemies with too much health, life bars and unavoidable damage, inertia movement, mouse control. (Standards for how a shmup should play came late to the west, resulting in many fresh and uninformed takes for the genre. The issues that plagued bad euroshmups were usually very different than that of an eastern 'kusoge' shmup. Take for example Thunderbolt II, a horrible bootleg game, and yet it has none of these issues. Good euroshmups typically either circumvented these issues or had ways to avoid experiencing them.)
• Trying to appear very serious. The prevelance of realistic-style graphics (sprite or otherwise), overdone or overly dramatic lore and a general sense of pride from the game. (Can mostly be blamed on marketing, overhyping and games-as-art culture gone wrong of the time)
• In-game shops. Somewhat tied to the first point, a powerup system tied to a shop, with money usually gained by killing enemies. Nothing is really wrong with this idea, but bad euroshmups resulted in this concept being linked to early levels being the hardest, most weapons being bait, and so on. (This was also used in some non euroshmups, the most famous probably being fantasy zone, there is nothing wrong with the concept inherently).
• Huge length. Euroshmups would often be longer affairs than their eastern counterparts, though there are exceptions on both sides of course.
• Big hitboxes, no bombs. Euroshmups usually did not practice the smaller-hitbox rule, with ships being exactly as they appear. This is, again, not a real issue, with real problems being in unavoidable attacks. Bombs were also rarely seen as a mechanic, though things with similar use pop up in a few games.
• Different pattern style. Before the idea of bullet hell was developed, Euroshmups usually stuck to stock patterns. Classic lasers, spreads, missiles, and so on. Indeed, it was not too uncommon to see a boss made out of glued-together parts that each shot a static projectile. Over time, this primitive design slowly gave way to more modern standards. While such design was seen historically worldwide, western shmups were on-average late to the party compared to jp when it came to moving on from it.

Finally, some interesting examples that can help with comprehension:
Apidya is a western shmup that was developed on purely non-euroshmup standards.
Cambria Sword is a modern indie shmup that incorporates many euroshmup standards not asosciated directly with bad quality.
Bioship paladin is an eastern shmup that suffers from several design decisions usually asosciated with euroshmups.
D-Force is widely considered as one of the worst shmups ever made, but not called a euroshmup, nor is it western.
Forgotten worlds is a jp game that features a shop and lifebars, yet not considered a euroshmup for lack of meeting other criteria.
Cy-Clone (a niche favorite of mine) for an example of a western game with clear euroshmup designs that's still enjoyable despite.
Play In the Hunt today

I consider EuroSHMUPS as those Cult films, legendary, loved by fans, but at the same time full of flaws.
And then if they didn't have the typical characteristics they wouldn't be EuroSHMUPS.
And then who says that "it has to be done like this?".

In the end in Japanese SHMUPS the basic scheme is very rigid in this regard, they can invent new score systems, but the basic skeleton is the same for everyone in practice.
The reason why Ikaruga is considered the best of all time by many is precisely because it subverts this order of things.

So what you're essentially saying is that there's a right way to do shmups and a wrong way? It seems limiting to me to think this way.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

Seems strange that you'd reach this conclusion after I specifically pointed out otherwise. I accuse you of TLDR!

[mycophobia]

Ikaruga is a euroshmup

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Rains of bullets (Like in Gigawing or Ikaruga).

And a bomb system that allows you to cancel shots on screen.

I don't want to be controversial but honestly, I think this bomb system which cancels all the shots on the screen is boring...

Unusual to mention Giga Wing when complaining about games with bombs being an excuse for "lazy design". The reality is bombs afford a bit of leeway so if a player struggles with a particular pattern, or makes a mistake and needs to escape, it's a way to get out of a tight spot that still requires the skill and resources to actually use the bomb. It's very easy to accidentally die to something with a whole bunch of bombs saved up if you get too greedy after all!

Giga Wing goes beyond that, with a recharging meter that allows you to throw enemy bullets back at them, but is designed in such a way that you are never really forced to use the reflect mechanic, and if you happen to mistime a reflect things are still entirely dodgeable. The game is even doable without ever reflecting, and feels quite fun and balanced, and bombs exist as a limited recovery resource that not only gets you out of a jam but also immediately recovers your reflect meter when used. Giga Wing has very few extra lives, so using those bombs effectively really, really count when it comes to survival.

It's entirely possible to get a feel for what games are good and balanced where the bomb isn't an excuse for poor design, whereas in euroshmups with gigantic hitboxes and recharging shields, it's a lot harder to find examples that reward player precision rather than resource management. Even one of the best examples of a euroshmup in terms of design quality, Tyrian 2000, suffers from this at time with patterns not being dodgeable so much as you dodge in such a way as to take minimal damage and allow your shields time to recover between shots. It's a very different design philosophy from Japanese styled arcade games where 1 hit = death.

[(In-game shops were also] used in some non euroshmups, the most famous probably being fantasy zone, there is nothing wrong with the concept inherently).

Drainus is probably the best example in a modern game with tight design of how to implement a shop. It's really, really well done in my opinion and is the gold standard of how a shop should be incorporated into a game.

[Starfighter]

Bombs are a resource you can use when you recognize that you’ve put yourself in a bad spot. Perhaps the player wasn’t willing to commit to a particular dodge and gets forced into the corner, so that is where bombs make a lot of sense.

This would be my defense of the smart bomb as well. It's absolutely a resource, that provides the player with a get out of jail free card for when they make a mistake or feel overwhelmed - and the less mistakes made and the more decisive playstyle the more points you're rewarded with when counting bomb stock at the end. The bomb management is almost like a separate mind game all on its own.

[Lemnear]

Seems strange that you'd reach this conclusion after I specifically pointed out otherwise. I accuse you of TLDR!

ahah the incrimanet phrases was:
"Standards for how a shmup should play came late to the west"
this imply that there is a standard to follow like this >_>

Ikaruga is a euroshmup

I never said that Ikaruga is a Euroshmup, but that all the praise that has been woven over the years was precisely because it has overtuned all the principles of a standard SHMUP known up to that time.

[mycophobia]

Seems strange that you'd reach this conclusion after I specifically pointed out otherwise. I accuse you of TLDR! :twisted:

ahah the incrimanet phrases was:
"Standards for how a shmup should play came late to the west"
this imply that there is a standard to follow like this >_>

Ikaruga is a euroshmup

I never said that Ikaruga is a Euroshmup, but that all the praise that has been woven over the years was precisely because it has overtuned all the principles of a standard SHMUP known up to that time.

i never said you said it was :P

[Bassa-Bassa]

ahah the incrimanet phrases was:
"Standards for how a shmup should play came late to the west"

I'd disagree with that statement. Stuff like 1942, Terra Cresta, Slap Fight or R-Type were the main source of inspiration for these Euro devs before the 90s. The 90s were a bit more unfocused since the arcades gradually stopped supporting the genre, but many of the liberties they took could already be seen in the 80s.

I never said that Ikaruga is a Euroshmup, but that all the praise that has been woven over the years was precisely because it has overtuned all the principles of a standard SHMUP known up to that time.

That's more than a stretch as well. Besides, I wonder how much of that praise would have been there with Mars Matrix' audio and visuals, to name a contemporary one.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

I think the confusion comes from the assumption that the "how a shmup should play" statement refers to some view I have personally, when I meant it purely as an objective observation. Case in point, pretty much every person I showed a shmup to lately, who wasn't part of the community, immediately brought up bullet hells or touhou. The genre's defining identity has shifted over time, and that has nothing to do with my own ideals (which were entirely unmentioned in this thread).