Bottom Line: Ibara or Under Defeat?

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:15 pm

duh, Ibara!

*shifty eyes*

*cough*Under Defeat*cough*

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:34 pm

I'm chuckling a bit at BulletMagnet's preference for Garegga 2, er, Ibara.

Oh yeah, that's right, you like Garegga now...

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:39 pm

I'm honestly not sure where the impression got started that I somehow utterly despise Garegga...in most respects I like it a lot, I just think it's flawed (like any other shmup), and somehow that makes me an extremist, heh heh.

But if you must keep that mindset going, say I just bought it for the rank-o-meter.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:58 pm

People need to get out of their head this idea that Under Defeat and Zero Gunner 2 are in any way similar. They both have helis, yes, but they play completely differently.

Also, the gameplay of Ibara and Under Defeat is actually more similar than it seems. Both are "industrial mass destruction" style games, giving points for blowing up lots of shit simultaneously, and Under Defeat also rewards suicide, although not quite to the extent of "Battle Ibara".

Anyway, I'm getting both, but if I had to choose I would go for Under Defeat. It's a fantastic game, and likely will be hard and expensive to find later.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:12 am

I'd actually recommend Under Defeat, since it's 1. the first G-rev game since Border Down (I think?) 2. it's a limited edition, and 3. as much of a Cave fanboy as I am, the last two Taito ports (of Mushihime-sama, and Skonec's Homura) were rather buggy, so I'm predicting some definite faults in the quality of Ibara's port. (but no doubt in the quality of the game itself, before i get pages upon pages of Cave-lover death-mail. XD) get Ibara eventually, but I'd really say go Under Defeat.

Metal Gear Okt · Post by **Metal Gear Okt** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:59 am

Ok, someone please educate me out of my retardedness, but why was Mushi a worse port than either of the last two arika ports (DDP-DOJ/Mushi, which I both have)?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:18 am

Metal Gear Okt wrote:Ok, someone please educate me out of my retardedness, but why was Mushi a worse port than either of the last two arika ports (DDP-DOJ/Mushi, which I both have)?

The two major differences are that DDPDOJ and ESPGaluda ports both have "save replay" abilities, and both have true non-interlace lowres output. The fact they both also have a SuperPlay Bonus DVD bundled with it is pretty nice too.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:16 am

Both of the Arika games also had much better practice modes than Mushi, and better load times. That's not to say that Mushi was a "bad" port by any means, as it had pretty much all of "the essentials," but the Arika ports had those and then some.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:34 am

BulletMagnet wrote:Both of the Arika games also had much better practice modes than Mushi, and better load times. That's not to say that Mushi was a "bad" port by any means, as it had pretty much all of "the essentials," but the Arika ports had those and then some.

Since when were sound glitches standard? o_O
Also, I dare say Mushi was a bad port n.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:53 am

Zweihander wrote:Since when were sound glitches standard?

Forgot about that, heh...not like that's exactly game-breaking, though, at least for me. I still say there have been MUCH worse ports than Mushi (although I readily concede that it could have been better), but if you disagree I won't lose any sleep, heh heh.

Metal Gear Okt · Post by **Metal Gear Okt** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:05 am

I consider Gigawing Generations a "bad port".

While Mushi may not have been given quite the care that DOJ or Galuda did, it was still a great game at its core.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:30 am

BulletMagnet wrote:Both of the Arika games also had much better practice modes than Mushi, and better load times. That's not to say that Mushi was a "bad" port by any means, as it had pretty much all of "the essentials," but the Arika ports had those and then some.

A work around of the long load times of the practice mode I found, is to prause the game and chooice restart before the practicing Stage actually end. This shortern the load time alot. Well there is still no cure for loading the Stage for the first time.

Dave_K. wrote:The two major differences are that DDPDOJ and ESPGaluda ports both have "save replay" abilities, and both have true non-interlace lowres output. The fact they both also have a SuperPlay Bonus DVD bundled with it is pretty nice too.

The missing of true non-interlace lowres output make the screen look terrible when conneting to a RGB monitor. This force me to use a regular TV, and the bigist tatable regular TV I could found is 21" compare to the 29" Astro City RGB Monitor I got, the screen area is noticeably smaller.

And the SuperPlay DVD is really a great Bonus.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:34 am

Zweihander wrote:I'd actually recommend Under Defeat, since it's 1. the first G-rev game since Border Down (I think?) 2. it's a limited edition, and 3. as much of a Cave fanboy as I am, the last two Taito ports (of Mushihime-sama, and Skonec's Homura) were rather buggy, so I'm predicting some definite faults in the quality of Ibara's port. (but no doubt in the quality of the game itself, before i get pages upon pages of Cave-lover death-mail. XD) get Ibara eventually, but I'd really say go Under Defeat.

Whats wrong with the Homura port? Looks good, runs fine... haven't noticed any bugs, aside from my copy not working nowadays... when it did work though, I didn't have any problems in game.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:55 am

Acid King wrote:Whats wrong with the Homura port?

Green doesn't satisfy our bloodlust.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:15 am

Acid King wrote:
Zweihander wrote:I'd actually recommend Under Defeat, since it's 1. the first G-rev game since Border Down (I think?) 2. it's a limited edition, and 3. as much of a Cave fanboy as I am, the last two Taito ports (of Mushihime-sama, and Skonec's Homura) were rather buggy, so I'm predicting some definite faults in the quality of Ibara's port. (but no doubt in the quality of the game itself, before i get pages upon pages of Cave-lover death-mail. XD) get Ibara eventually, but I'd really say go Under Defeat.
Whats wrong with the Homura port? Looks good, runs fine... haven't noticed any bugs, aside from my copy not working nowadays... when it did work though, I didn't have any problems in game.

People were having problems with their burnz copies (boo hoo!). Legit ones run fine.

I really don't know about UD. It's by G rev, but it looks to have even less depth than Raiden 1. 'Mindless fun' type shooter. I've considered cancelling my preorder.

Ibara on the other hand is Garegga with added depth, and will own, scaling+filtering or no. And I'm certainly not going to fuck Taito by waiting for a best version - I'll give them full financial support for bringing this one home.

duh, Ibara!

Great, so all of us who buy Ibara are retards? That's just beautiful.

Go back to Dreamcast scene, will you.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:27 am

Neon wrote:
Acid King wrote:
Zweihander wrote:I'd actually recommend Under Defeat, since it's 1. the first G-rev game since Border Down (I think?) 2. it's a limited edition, and 3. as much of a Cave fanboy as I am, the last two Taito ports (of Mushihime-sama, and Skonec's Homura) were rather buggy, so I'm predicting some definite faults in the quality of Ibara's port. (but no doubt in the quality of the game itself, before i get pages upon pages of Cave-lover death-mail. XD) get Ibara eventually, but I'd really say go Under Defeat.
Whats wrong with the Homura port? Looks good, runs fine... haven't noticed any bugs, aside from my copy not working nowadays... when it did work though, I didn't have any problems in game.
People were having problems with their burnz copies (boo hoo!). Legit ones run fine.

I really don't know about UD. It's by G rev, but it looks to have even less depth than Raiden 1. 'Mindless fun' type shooter. I've considered cancelling my preorder.

Ibara on the other hand is Garegga with added depth, and will own, scaling+filtering or no. And I'm certainly not going to fuck Taito by waiting for a best version - I'll give them full financial support for bringing this one home.

duh, Ibara!
Great, so all of us who buy Ibara are retards? That's just beautiful.

Go back to Dreamcast scene, will you.

"burnz copies"? Um... Sorry to say, but my burned copy of Homura actually runs with less sound bugs than my official copy. I don't know how, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but it does.

Most notably in Mushi (both my official AND burned copies) is that, in the higher difficulty modes (or Arrange mode) on the 4th or fifth stages, there's so many bullets and so much slowdown, that you will use a bomb, see it happen, then, ONE SECOND LATER, hear Reko's "nyah" and bomb sound. That's a fact.®

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:39 pm

Zweihander wrote: "burnz copies"? Um... Sorry to say, but my burned copy of Homura actually runs with less sound bugs than my official copy. I don't know how, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but it does.

Well the rippers probably had the time to do some more bug-testing and thus further perfecting the game.

Shouldn't become more ridiculous than ripped versions having less bugs than an original... next time you know it they'll be putting in extra stages and omake stuff.....

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:24 pm

Zweihander wrote:
"burnz copies"? Um... Sorry to say, but my burned copy of Homura actually runs with less sound bugs than my official copy. I don't know how, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but it does.

Most notably in Mushi (both my official AND burned copies) is that, in the higher difficulty modes (or Arrange mode) on the 4th or fifth stages, there's so many bullets and so much slowdown, that you will use a bomb, see it happen, then, ONE SECOND LATER, hear Reko's "nyah" and bomb sound. That's a fact.®

Riiight... so what's wrong the Homura port again?I played quite a bit on mine before it stopped working and never ran into anything... unless you consider quitting during a bosses death and hearing the scream play as it exits to the main menu a big glitch, I haven't run into anything really.

Thunder Force wrote:Green doesn't satisfy our bloodlust.

Well, there's that...

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:39 pm

Acid King wrote:
Zweihander wrote:
"burnz copies"? Um... Sorry to say, but my burned copy of Homura actually runs with less sound bugs than my official copy. I don't know how, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but it does.

Most notably in Mushi (both my official AND burned copies) is that, in the higher difficulty modes (or Arrange mode) on the 4th or fifth stages, there's so many bullets and so much slowdown, that you will use a bomb, see it happen, then, ONE SECOND LATER, hear Reko's "nyah" and bomb sound. That's a fact.®
Riiight... so what's wrong the Homura port again?I played quite a bit on mine before it stopped working and never ran into anything... unless you consider quitting during a bosses death and hearing the scream play as it exits to the main menu a big glitch, I haven't run into anything really.

There are no real bugs on the Homura port unless you're playing a burned, pirated copy. It plays quite flawlessly, and it's an excellent port. People need to buy legit copies and not make up silly stories about how their burned copies play better than their "official" copies (which makes us all doubt they really own official copies).

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:58 pm

twe wrote:
Acid King wrote:
Zweihander wrote:
"burnz copies"? Um... Sorry to say, but my burned copy of Homura actually runs with less sound bugs than my official copy. I don't know how, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but it does.

Most notably in Mushi (both my official AND burned copies) is that, in the higher difficulty modes (or Arrange mode) on the 4th or fifth stages, there's so many bullets and so much slowdown, that you will use a bomb, see it happen, then, ONE SECOND LATER, hear Reko's "nyah" and bomb sound. That's a fact.®
Riiight... so what's wrong the Homura port again?I played quite a bit on mine before it stopped working and never ran into anything... unless you consider quitting during a bosses death and hearing the scream play as it exits to the main menu a big glitch, I haven't run into anything really.

There are no real bugs on the Homura port unless you're playing a burned, pirated copy. It plays quite flawlessly, and it's an excellent port. People need to buy legit copies and not make up silly stories about how their burned copies play better than their "official" copies (which makes us all doubt they really own official copies).

The Homura bug is not with burnt/pirated copies, but happens if you try playing it through HDLoader (which I do for all my imports, which I do own). I'd imagine a burnt CD-R would run quite fine on a modded system. So this is a silly argument.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:41 pm

twe wrote: There are no real bugs on the Homura port unless you're playing a burned, pirated copy. It plays quite flawlessly, and it's an excellent port. People need to buy legit copies and not make up silly stories about how their burned copies play better than their "official" copies (which makes us all doubt they really own official copies).

Thats what I'm saying. Homura is a good port. Aside from the problems I have with my copy, I have no complaints about the actual game or the porting. Taito is taking an unnecessary amount of flack for a port Cave did that could have been better and a tate-less Gigawing Generations, despite the fact that Raiden 3 came out fine, as well as pretty much every other shooter they've done recently.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:18 am

Super Laydock wrote:
Zweihander wrote: "burnz copies"? Um... Sorry to say, but my burned copy of Homura actually runs with less sound bugs than my official copy. I don't know how, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but it does.
Well the rippers probably had the time to do some more bug-testing and thus further perfecting the game.

Shouldn't become more ridiculous than ripped versions having less bugs than an original... next time you know it they'll be putting in extra stages and omake stuff.....

What I mean is, oddly enough, the copies which i ripped from MY copies of the game which I BURNED run better than the original copies.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:43 am

Ibara because the announcer is like:

EEE BAR AHHHH

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:11 am

Neon wrote:
duh, Ibara!
Great, so all of us who buy Ibara are retards? That's just beautiful.

Go back to Dreamcast scene, will you.

That just makes my day right there. Did I call anyone a retard? I'm looking and I don't see it. I don't make such rash unintelligable comments such as that. Only reason I said ibara was that no one would expect me to recommend it over the game I've been salivating over since it's first rumours.

I don't have any intention of doing such a childish thing as calling someone a "retard", and I don't think my previous post conveyed the message you got at all. If I don't like you for some reason, I'll tell you why I don't like you, and not call you something you aren't, or do it with any subtle implications.

For your information, I'll actualy be buying both titles once I get my ps2.

can we drop this now? There's better things to be discussing.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:22 am

Kingbuzzo wrote:
Neon wrote:
duh, Ibara!
Great, so all of us who buy Ibara are retards? That's just beautiful.

Go back to Dreamcast scene, will you.

That just makes my day right there. Did I call anyone a retard? I'm looking and I don't see it. I don't make such rash unintelligable comments such as that. Only reason I said ibara was that no one would expect me to recommend it over the game I've been salivating over since it's first rumours.

I don't have any intention of doing such a childish thing as calling someone a "retard", and I don't think my previous post conveyed the message you got at all. If I don't like you for some reason, I'll tell you why I don't like you, and not call you something you aren't, or do it with any subtle implications.

For your information, I'll actualy be buying both titles once I get my ps2.

can we drop this now? There's better things to be discussing.

I assumed wrongly I guess. You have to admit that was pretty vague, though.

Jedah Doma · Post by **Jedah Doma** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:16 am

I'd say Ibara. For my money, you can't go wrong with Cave. Hell, I've got everyone of the PS2 Cave shooters plus other Cave PCBs and I've never gone wrong with Cave.

Cave.

Shooter.

What more do you need?

tekneekz · Post by **tekneekz** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:28 am

has play asia started shipping yet? i hope i dont have to wait longer since i preordered like a month ago. were so close to a enw shmup

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:52 am

Jedah Doma wrote:I'd say Ibara. For my money, you can't go wrong with Cave. Hell, I've got everyone of the PS2 Cave shooters plus other Cave PCBs and I've never gone wrong with Cave.

Well, I am sorry. Ibara dosen't play like other Cave shmups, it plays like a Raizing/8thing shmups instead.

If you like BG, this game is great for you. Otherwise, you might not like it.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:39 am

Yeah, people seem to be pretty misinformed.

Ibara ≠ other Cave games
Under Defeat ≠ Zero Gunner 2

Both games are great, and will be well worth their money. Can't go wrong with either. But some of the reasons people are giving here are just absolutely based on nothing.

"Under Defeat less depth than Raiden 1" - gimme a break! Although I guess it's coming from Neon, so why am I even surprised...

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:42 am

"Under Defeat less depth than Raiden 1" - gimme a break! Although I guess it's coming from Neon, so why am I even surprised... Rolling Eyes

Keep in mind I'm just talking about like, 3 videos I've seen. How does the scoring system work? Is there one?