Han Solo Teh Movie

[neorichieb1971]

Apart from a Raccoon looking creature replacing Chewbacca, I would have thought "Solo" would be akin to another Disney movie.

[Skykid]

Rogue One is bad but you are all smoking crack if you think it's worse than the prequels. Seriously, try and sit through one of those films. It's impossible. And that's a fact!

Yeeeeeahhh... I do know what you're saying. But this is like trying to figure out which is the shinier turd. If I distilled Phantom Menace (for example) by boiling away everything disposable I would be left with Darth Maul, the pod race, and a half decent light saber exchange right at the end. And that's about it. But those three things are possibly more interesting than anything that occurred in RO, which is where we start getting fractional.

[cj iwakura]

I enjoyed Rogue One....

Specifically, I LOVED the fleet battle. The Raddish Maneuver is LEGENDARY.

[Skykid]

So after all this Rogue One talk I fired it up on Netflix just to actually make sure of what I recall about it. I don't think I've put a comment out of place regarding it, to be honest. It's got an absolutely loathesome TV theatricality to it, enforced by an awful shaky cam that not only has no place in Star Wars but removes a layer of its believable fantasy by coupling it with all the other lazily photographed films we've enjoyed post-Bourne Supremacy.

Additionally the direction is flat as a pancake. There's barely any nuance in any of the actor's deliveries, zero expression, and the dialogue is as leaden as everything else. The screenwriting is garbage, to the point where one is amazed this stuff actually made it to production, and the entire Forest Whitaker jaunt is as sleep-inducing as it is pointless.

No need to re-iterate how punchable the lead's face is and why she can't act, along with everyone else bar Riz Ahmad, who seems lost and nameless among all the other lost and nameless so-called protagonists, but whatever, hopefully we'll never have to see them again.

It's a horrible, shitty movie, but it's real crime above all else is that it's so utterly boring. I mean the prequels were boring too, but at least they had a slow-motion-train-wreck level of intrigue. Rogue One is just moving wallpaper.

[Sumez]

Yeah, the prequels were absurdly flawed as movies and full of cringeworthy content, but at least they try to go somewhere (except from Ep3 which seemed like it was just trying to hastily tie its knots together). They are definitely terrible, but never as pointless as Rogue One.

I was actually pretty positive about Rogue One for a large part of the movie, but around the spot where they kill off the protagonist's dad and awkwardly tries to be sentimental about it, and I realised I had absolutely no idea why I should care about what happened to him (or to her), it became clear to me that the movie had no idea how to tell a story.

Actually, it probably already happened a bit earlier when they killed off Forest Whitaker without establishing why he's important at all, but that next bit just cemented it.

[dan76]

But, the thing about a Rogue One is that it's unimportant. It's just a little side story that you can watch if you want. It may as well not exist, no one asked for it, much like the Solo film. So, you can either hate on it or find stuff to enjoy.

Unlike the prequels and TLJ. The prequels fucked up given the potential of what they could've been. Not only were the scripts terrible, they were three of the most poorly made films ever. Ever. No department gets off with the prequels. Uniformly awful. Fuck McGregor as an awful Obi-Wan.

With the sequel trilogy, again we are looking at the blown potential, especially TLJ. I don't think TFA is a good film, but it was what was needed after the prequels. TLJ may be a better film in one sense, but again, look what they've done to the characters and the stories they're telling. Pretty piss poor.

What is this bullshit about having to care about characters? Can't you just watch a story unfold. Rogue One isn't a character story. It's a movie about getting the Death Star plans. That's it, people died, some girl lost her dad who worked on it, oh well. And Forrest Whitaker was in it for some reason. That's not the interesting thing. Actually I've written myself into a corner here... What is the interesting thing in Rogue One? Can't remember.

Yeah, it's crap too.

EDIT: I've got it. I think what I was trying to say was that I'm ok with Rogue One existing because it doesn't mean anything. I'm not ok with TLJ because of what it means for the next film and it's handling of the OT characters.

At least the Solo film has Woody in it, I'm telling ya all, it's going to be great!

[Sumez]

Mah, it's just movies. I don't really think of any of these movies as "important"
But I get your point, I guess.

[Xyga]

Yup

Sometimes I feel like the world forgets that SW is more than anything about showing space-opera/fantasy-mashup themed stuff, cool alien shit with pew pew lazors and monks swinging light sabers.
It's always been about popular entertainment, not great cinema art or literature, and for what they do most episodes main series or not actually do well and more than well for some. The movies don't deserve neither godly praise nor to be utterly destroyed IMHO, there's too much passion.
Personally I've enjoyed most because the nature of SW has always been clear to me (except ep1, it is absolutely awful even just for average space pew pew entertainment)

[dan76]

Mah, it's just movies. I don't really think of any of these movies as "important"
But I get your point, I guess.

Well yes, they're not important at all. But it's always good to have a film to look forward to seeing. TLJ killed that dead, not that I was looking forward to TLJ much either.

Crikey, it would be better if none of these films existed.

Btw, I guess you've all read about the GoT producers making their own series of Star Wars films. It's never ending.

[Skykid]

But, the thing about a Rogue One is that it's unimportant. It's just a little side story that you can watch if you want.

Yes, and all power to this concept. Indeed, if someone can actually make an unimportant SW side story that also turns out to be a good film, I'd be right behind it. I think the point that's being missed here is that Rogue One is a dreadful little unimportant movie - it's not even passable as light entertainment because it's so fucking dull and boring in all facets of its assembly, from casting and dialogue to cinematography and direction.

What is this bullshit about having to care about characters? Can't you just watch a story unfold. Rogue One isn't a character story. It's a movie about getting the Death Star plans.

Oh. No. No, no, no.

Look, I get that the movie industry is now at the stage where the imagination and producer creativity is the equivalent of a barren, cobwebby tomb that stinks like ass, but that doesn't mean we have to realign our expectations to meet their laziness. Rogue One could have been a wonderful adventure, full of excitement, inimitable characters that we love and don't want to lose, genuine drama and tension and excitement. But it fails on every critical level required for any of those things to come to fruition. It's just been made on a join-the-dots format where the director says action and cut and everyone just does their thing in a take or two and they all go home to bed until it's time to send it to the CGI labs. Nobody gives a shit. The effort is somewhere 0.1 above zero. So as an audience member I can't find any reason to be engaged in this clapped together bullshit; it's only good as a sleeping aid.

[Squire Grooktook]

What is this bullshit about having to care about characters?

It's the heart of any story.

If you don't care about the characters, you don't care about what's going on. No stakes, no tension.

A story is just a vehicle for characters. Just like a setting/world is just a vehicle for stories.

EDIT: I've got it. I think what I was trying to say was that I'm ok with Rogue One existing because it doesn't mean anything. I'm not ok with TLJ because of what it means for the next film and it's handling of the OT characters.

Agreed though. I'm not a big SW fan, but I respect the OT for their creativity/imagination, as well as their pop cultural influence. At this point, turning them into a Disney cow to be milked and squandering (or outright sullying) several OT characters and stories just isn't worth it for a few slightly above average action films that don't really match the OT anyway.

Best thing that could happen to Star Wars right now:

Spoiler

[Zen]

Mah, it's just movies. I don't really think of any of these movies as "important"

Say what now?!


Films are food to the unconscious. Waking dreams.
Star Wars was (and perhaps still is?) a global cultural phenomena.


Which is why it is being debased for the glory of Social Justice.


To Lucas eternal chagrin, he told his tale through the context of the Arthurian cycle. Therefore it must be destroyed.
(Yeah, yeah, I know, "Zen you fuckin Nazi!" etc., etc.)
I predicted here, in March of last year, that Luke ("the once and future King") would have to be debased going forward. I am spoiler free on TLJ but they did, didn't they?
WAIT! Don't tell me!

Re. Rogue One; Its shit. C'mon guys.
Even if I personally loved it, I would still be unable to say that its was anything other than ass.

[Mischief Maker]

To Lucas eternal chagrin, he told his tale through the context of the Arthurian cycle. Therefore it must be destroyed.

Star Wars was Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress in a Buck Rogers setting. From the major plot structure, to specific scenes, to the final twist at the end. That's why the story is told from the perspective of its two lowliest characters, C3PO and R2D2. All that talk Lucas made about Campbell's Monomyth (to which the Arthurian (cycle?) belongs) was pure bluster. However it was influential bluster in Hollywood at the time that I think helped the 80s produce so many dumb popcorn flicks that nevertheless had clear plots and relate-able protagonists.

Lucas failing to stick with Kurosawa or Campbell's Monomyth as the skeleton around which to design the prequels was the series' downfall, not the SJWs hiding under your bed at night.

If he and/or Disney had the discipline to write all their follow-up films around Campbell's Monomyth they could have easily churned out trilogy after successful trilogy of entertaining and profitable popcorn for decades to come.

Turbo Kid, by the way, is an EXCELLENT example of a Monomyth script. People, stop bellyaching about Disney Wars failing to recapture your childhood and recapture it instead with Turbo Kid! It's on Netflix Instant!

[Squire Grooktook]

[All that talk Lucas made about Campbell's Monomyth (to which the Arthurian (cycle?) belongs) was pure bluster.

That's a bit harsh.

Even if it owes the beats to the Hidden Fortress, the Campbell influence is very strong IMO. It doesn't just echo the Monomyth / Heroes Journey, but traces of Campbell's general life philosophies and interest in mysticism are retained in the trilogy, especially when it comes to The Force and how it's handled and portrayed throughout the OT.

I think it's also a biiiit much to say the story is entirely told from the robots perspective. The cast POV is very evenly split, and even then I'd say Luke's viewpoint is the most frequent and prominent.

Don't disagree with the rest though, mind you.

[Sumez]

Turbo Kid, by the way, is an EXCELLENT example of a Monomyth script. People, stop bellyaching about Disney Wars failing to recapture your childhood and recapture it instead with Turbo Kid! It's on Netflix Instant!

I was with you right up to this. I thought Turbo Kid was god damn cringeworthy. And I really wanted to like it, too.

[Zen]

Mischief Maker, I love you buddy but you don't half like to tell porkies and spread mischief. Or, to put it in the context of your post, you are the "Trickster".

Star Wars was Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress in a Buck Rogers setting.

In truth, this should read; "some of Star Wars was framed in Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress".
There is an enormous amount of cinema history influences that "frame" the first Star Wars film but crucially, they are not the soul of the story.

Re. Campbell's "Monomyth.
It has long been said, that Lucas was a "favourite" of Campbell's. Moreover in Lucas, Campbell could see the myths of subconscious memory brought back to life in the "now".
Obviously, in a sense, for Campbell this was the culmination of his work.

Here is where it gets "problematic".
Myth emanates from subconscious archetypal forms. Of course this is universal to all peoples and (wait for it) races.
Here's the rub; there is variance between how the tales are told. Oh, the horror!
Since these "variants" have emanated from particular cultures, which in turn have emanated from particular races, these tales obviously resonate more with said races.

Star wars does indeed, in its form, display elements of Campbell's Monomyth.
But Georgie boy (subconsciously?) channelled Thomas Malory.



Oh, dear!

Guess what race Star Wars resonates most with? Post 1945, this was considered, shall we say, not "ideal"

So, we get Merlin and Excalibur and the Once and Future King . . .
Hell, even John Williams felt compelled to ape Wagner, for Christ sakes!

Obviously, all of this is not Wikipedia "friendly" but is so grotesquely conspicuous by its absence as to be a giant sore thumb.

Lucas failing to stick with Kurosawa or Campbell's Monomyth as the skeleton around which to design the prequels was the series' downfall,

No, but Lucas failing (not wanting to?) to stick with Le Morte d'Arthur, might be.

not the SJWs hiding under your bed at night.

There are no SJWs under my bed, I can assure you of that, Mischief Maker.
There are quite a few over at Disney though, finding new an novel ways to stick Lightsaber's up whiteys arse.
When they have Luke take a black lover, the "training" will be "complete".

[Lord Satori]

Mischief Maker, I love you buddy but you don't half like to tell porkies and spread mischief. Or, to put it in the context of your post, you are the "Trickster".

I mean... that IS his username.

[neorichieb1971]

I think SW would have faired better if it were reborn again with different planets and characters. Since its obvious at this point Disney cannot use the template of the OT to good effect.

That deleted scene that was in the trailer for Rogue One just goes to show that you can make something look good, but leave yourself nowhere to go.

[Jeneki]

Hmm the movie is called "Solo", so I expect a bunch of Stormtroopers having a kegger, with everyone holding red cups.

Actually this reminds me of a conversation I had in the 90s while rewatching A New Hope, during the line about "wretched hive of scum and villainy", and how cool it would be to see a movie focused on that. Smugglers, bounty hunters, etc, with no force users around. I'd like this movie to be decent, but we'll see how it goes.

[Zen]

"wretched hive of scum and villainy"

When I first saw Star Wars as a child and heard Alec Guinness say that line, Mos Eisley instantly became the most interesting place in the Star Wars universe to me.
Dogobah, Death Star, Bespin you can keep them. Take me back to Mos Eisley.

Good, healthy criminal enterprise, with no interference from Jedi, is definitely the Solo film I would like to see.

[Lord Satori]

I'd like this movie to be decent, but we'll see how it goes.

It won't be. They'll likely undermine Han's entire story arc by painting him as if he was a great hero from the start.

[Jonny2x4]

Rogue One is quite easily the worst Star Wars movie ever, it's a total bag of shit in pretty much every way possible.

Sorry sorry, that statement excluding the prequels. There are many times I genuinely forget they exist. Although... damn, it's hard to be absolutely certain with Rogue One. The prequels didn't make me almost fall asleep, and technically speaking their cardboard cutout characters still had more personality than the RO squad, so it's a matter that deserves serious deliberation.

I think he was implying that the Star Wars Holiday Special exists.

[Sinful]

https://youtu.be/oM_WvP4bVKs

Solo Trailer But With "I'm Han Solo" From The Star Wars Kinect Soundtrack.

[dan76]

So, the new trailer. Everything looks, eh, ok, except the guy playing Solo and ironically the "look" of it. Are directors afraid of using colours these days or what. Everything either has to be washed in mustard yellow, sea grean or midnight blue. Looks like a Rogue One, that looked like shit too.

At least we will be getting a lot of Chewy in this. I'm hoping the western feel is really pushed. Kasdan has said some good things around Star Wars in recent years, but he wrote TFA so who knows. Can't be worse the TLJ can it?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Sometimes a character with no known backstory is a good thing. It adds mystery, mystique to the character. The unknown can actually make a character more interesting than having every little aspect of their character explained and told to us.

Sometimes when you decide to make a prequel/backstory to a beloved character who didn't need it, you write a shitty, canonical backstory involving them getting emo about sand and lightsabering children to death, and ruin the character for future generations. No more being shrouded in mystery and unknown.

Aaaaaaaaaaaagh.

I totally get why these stupid backstory movies are being made though. Disney has a cash cow, and it's gonna milk it for all it's worth.

[BryanM]

Man, I really want to want to watch Turbo Kid. But it's a movie and I've already seen some movies before.

Can't be worse the TLJ can it?

Oh ye of little faith. At least TLJ made you feel something again, even if those feelings were hate or crippling depression. This one will probably be less interesting than the wacky stuff about Darth Vader's suit in the novels.

I do feel a little bad that the best Expanded Universe stuff you Star Wars brahs will ever see is from some of the games.

That Ted Talk where J.J. Abrams talks about "The mystery box" is such a great metaphor for his writing philosophy. In a sense, yes, what's in the box isn't important. But also, in a very valid counter observation, if your story is made up of nothing but dozens of these boxes, people will expect you to start opening some of the them. And when they find out there's nothing but air inside of them, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

[Despatche]

Please remember that the prequels were incredibly popular and important on release. Years and years of Memey Bitching on the Internet has buried years and years of important history and context.

[BryanM]

I remember watching The Phantom Menace pretty well. Long line snaking a bit past the building. The two guys in the back who cheered at the R2-D2 cameo, before stopping mid-cheer perhaps out of shame or embarrassment. The sense that my parents did not enjoy it very much, when on the other hand I was like "Why do you look bummed out? It was a Star Wars movie."

A big appeal of these flicks were merely as cultural touchstones - if I did not have other people to go see them with, I would not have watched them.

Which reminds me of another movie I want to want to see: Valerian. The books were an inspiration for The Fifth Element. While reviews on it are middling, how could it be worse than going to see Han win a spaceship from a poker bet and Chewy chew on some fried chicken, if you don't have kids at our age. Even if it's terrible, it'll be terrible in new and possibly exciting ways.

(Says the man who kind of liked The Prometheus Trap and respects how its "stasis chambers" were just plastic sheets. That's some kickass set design. In a world where everything is a special effect, reality itself becomes "special".)

[Sumez]

The Valerian comic books were some of my favourites as a kid, though they are not particularly aimed towards kids - they are truly well written, and the world building is incredible. Citing them as simply the inspiration for The Fifth Element really isn't doing them justice (and honestly I didn't see the connection when Fifth Element came out). Though they do have a lot of comic relief, they generally have a much more mature tone, as well as unique and interesting themes.

That said, the movie doesn't look like it has much to do with the comic books at all. If you have never read them, you really should check them out.

[Zen]

I'm hoping the western feel is really pushed.

So do I

Sometimes when you decide to make a prequel/backstory to a beloved character who didn't need it, you write a shitty, canonical backstory involving them getting emo about sand and lightsabering children to death, and ruin the character for future generations. No more being shrouded in mystery and unknown.

Like purposefully including Chewie in a shot where his grief is ignored and instead Leia makes a bee-line to a new, meaningless character instead.
Like Han being cuck-killed by his cosplaying, emo son.
Like the debased Luke, that you have already mentioned.
There is clear intent here.
I mention all the above, as preface to commenting on your last sentence;

I totally get why these stupid backstory movies are being made though. Disney has a cash cow, and it's gonna milk it for all it's worth

Its not about the money. At least not for Kathleen Kennedy. Decisions were made that damaged the franchise and thus the profits. Why? See all the above.