Best "non-traditional" shmups?

[BurlyHeart]

I don't think even Konami remember that the game exists

Konami needs to get their heads out of their asses and start porting Gradius, Contra etc. to the PC.

[Sumez]

That's probably the thing I need the least.

[neontropics]

Star Fox 64 is a very good 3D shmup.

I feel like I'm the only person on earth who prefers the original for SNES

It's so cool! The fake polys are so neat! That game is the futuuuuure!

Big fan of the original as well! It's just more focused and aiming lasers is much more satisfying than just doing the homing missile thing in 64 (which you need to do for scoring...). Also the last boss is fun and not a giant letdown. I always thought the game was impossible as a kid but it's pretty easy these days.

Definitely my favourite rail-shooter, it's just a blast to play through from beginning to end.

[BIL]

Super Spy Hunter/Battle Formula, shump with automobiles.

Rare example of inertia done right. Lifebars too. Dodge bullets for style, dodge lasers for die.



For really offbeat car shumping, see the SFC's Battle Mobile. Only projectile attack is a surface-to-air rocket for sniping aircraft. Otherwise you need to HIT TEH BOOST and ram into stuff. Has plenty of stylistic resemblances to Spy Hunter/Battle Formula, but actually plays far more like Konami's tate ram 'em up Road Fighter. Not quite as good as BF/RF, but a curio worth trying out.

[BurlyHeart]

Vanquish probably deserves a mention in here. Coming to PC too.

[Special World]

Vanquish probably deserves a mention in here. Coming to PC too.

Vanquish is an incredible game, but even for me calling a third-person shooter a "non-traditional shmup" is a stretch. Vanquish is definitely one of my favorite Platinum games, though. The story and cutscenes are garbage but the gameplay is 100%. And the battles seem to just get bigger and bigger. Really I think it's probably the most fun game they've put out.

[BrianC]

I don't think even Konami remember that the game exists

There was a PS2 emulation of it from the same publisher as Arcade Archives and other Konami games, including obscure ones like Mr. Goemon, are in Arcade Archives for PS4.

The DS Goemon also has a version of Quarth that has a boss based on the Gradius core boss.

[Elixir]

Vanquish probably deserves a mention in here. Coming to PC too.

It doesn't because it's not a shmup, neither is Hardcore Uprising. Did you sign up just to post incorrectly?

[BurlyHeart]

Vanquish probably deserves a mention in here. Coming to PC too.

It doesn't because it's not a shmup, neither is Hardcore Uprising. Did you sign up just to post incorrectly?

No, just to annoy pedantic plebs. I see it's working.

[Elixir]

Vanquish probably deserves a mention in here. Coming to PC too.

It doesn't because it's not a shmup, neither is Hardcore Uprising. Did you sign up just to post incorrectly?

No, just to annoy pedantic plebs. I see it's working.

I'm not annoyed, but Vanquish just outright isn't shmup related. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

[BurlyHeart]

It doesn't because it's not a shmup, neither is Hardcore Uprising. Did you sign up just to post incorrectly?

No, just to annoy pedantic plebs. I see it's working.

I'm not annoyed, but Vanquish just outright isn't shmup related. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

I totally agree, but shooting is a large part of it so just threw it out there as a game I enjoyed. Have you read the OP? Even then, it's a bit of a stretch to be included, as already mentioned by an actual contributor to this thread.

[Sumez]

I'm not annoyed, but Vanquish just outright isn't shmup related. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

It does take the slow moving visible bullet aspect from the shmup genre, which I really wish more non-shmup action games would.

[copy-paster]

Konami needs to get their heads out of their asses and start porting Gradius etc. to the PC.

Gradius Deluxe Pack, contains AC Gradius I and II. Released on Saturn, PS1, and PC.

Contra

https://www.amazon.com/Konami-Collector ... B00006969T

[Elixir]

I'm not annoyed, but Vanquish just outright isn't shmup related. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

It does take the slow moving visible bullet aspect from the shmup genre, which I really wish more non-shmup action games would.

Pretty sure shmups did not invent bullet time.

[Jeneki]

Pretty sure shmups did not invent bullet time.

Hmm ... Best I can think of is Omega Figher's slomo power.

[Sumez]

Pretty sure shmups did not invent bullet time.

That's not what I meant by the slow moving part. Even without "bullet time", they move slowly in Vanquish, and same for every classic shoot'em up out there.
Typically in these kinds of games, bullets are practically instantaneous, much like a real bullet fired from a gun is moving so fast you can't realistically react to it and dodge around it. So basically you gotta anticipate the bullet and dodge it before it's even fired, or take cover somewhere, or just shoot the enemies before they get to fire at you. Or in the worst examples out there, just tank the damage.

True though, that other games with "bullet time" concept do include genuine bullet dodging, but Vanquish takes it to a whole new level.

[Shepardus]

Pretty sure shmups didn't invent non-hitscan projectiles either.

If you want a Platinum game that clearly does borrow from shmups, there's NieR: Automata. Many of Yoko Taro's favorite games are shmups, and the abstract colored circle projectiles moving in often symmetric patterns is very characteristic of shmups and games inspired by shmups.

Speaking of which, Enter the Gungeon is pretty cool. A bit too stingy with resources and not crazy enough with the guns for my taste, but cool nevertheless.

[Sumez]

Pretty sure shmups didn't invent non-hitscan projectiles either.

Pretty sure no one claimed that. That said, shmups is probably the oldest genre with bullets at all, going all the way back to Spacewar, so technically speaking you could say they did. But I'll agree it's not strictly a shmup trope.

[Elixir]

Pretty sure shmups did not invent bullet time.

Even without "bullet time", they move slowly in Vanquish, and same for every classic shoot'em up out there.

No they don't, most of them in Vanquish are near instantaneous, much faster than shmups without the bullet time mechanic.

AR Mode

This is the mode built into the battle suit where it increases the reactions of the user ten-fold, essentially a form of 'bullet time', allowing them to dispatch most enemies quickly and effectively in combat and escape near-death situations. It also appears that the suit limiters are removed to allow the user to move around faster as it is clear that time is not actually slowing down but Sam is just speeding up. Using this mode, unfortunately, causes the suit to build up heat and can overheat if used for too long.

It's LITERALLY bullet time, which didn't even originate from gaming.



Automata would be a better point of reference, not simply because it has 3D bullet patterns in it but because it has many shmup references and the hacking minigames are arena shmups (the intro sequence is one huge Ikaruga/Radiant Silvergun reference), but I think the topic at hand is actually referring to non-vert/hori/omnidirectional shmups, stuff like Shoot the Bullet.

[Sumez]

I gotta admit it seems I remember Vanquish wrong. I recall a ton of Nier-style bullets in the game, but to be fair I only ever played the demo.

One thing that does confuse me is why people constantly bring up Nier Automata without even considering the original Nier, which almost every element of Automata was lifted from?
Sure, Automata does have some genuine straight up shmup sequences, but those are actually pretty traditional shmup gameplay (if kinda europshmuppy), unless you discount twin stick stuff.

[BurlyHeart]

Speaking of which, Enter the Gungeon is pretty cool. A bit too stingy with resources and not crazy enough with the guns for my taste, but cool nevertheless.

Love this game. You can see it was made with a lot of love.

I just wish I could play it on my arcade stick.

[BurlyHeart]

I think the topic at hand is actually referring to non-vert/hori/omnidirectional shmups, stuff like Shoot the Bullet.

Sounds much more encompassing than you suggest.

Well, that's fine--but are there any non-traditional shooters that you got really into?

Euroshmups, run n' gun, rail shooters, arena shooters, roguelite shooters, etc.

ED: If your reaction to anything is "that's not really a shmup!" Well, that's kind of the point of the topic. But I'm hoping people use their best judgement to say "this game I like is pretty shmuppy" even if it doesn't fit the textbook definition. For example, I would say Metal Slug 3 is "shmuppy" even if most people consider it a run n' gun and not a true shmup. Super Mario World, on the other hand, is clearly a platformer.

[Bananamatic]

pro evolution soccer is my favourite shmup

[Sumez]

pro evolution soccer is my favourite shmup

I recommend Goal! Goal! Goal!. It's the only soccer game I can think of that rewards bullet cancelling.

[Bananamatic]

pro evolution soccer is my favourite shmup

I recommend Goal! Goal! Goal!. It's the only soccer game I can think of that rewards bullet cancelling.

are there any that reward using melee attacks instead of punishing you for using them?

[Sumez]

Mike Tyson's Punch-Out

[BrianC]

Super Spy Hunter/Battle Formula, shump with automobiles.

Rare example of inertia done right. Lifebars too. Dodge bullets for style, dodge lasers for die.

Magneto's favorite video game!

[Elixir]

I think the topic at hand is actually referring to non-vert/hori/omnidirectional shmups, stuff like Shoot the Bullet.

Sounds much more encompassing than you suggest.

Well, that's fine--but are there any non-traditional shooters that you got really into?

Euroshmups, run n' gun, rail shooters, arena shooters, roguelite shooters, etc.

ED: If your reaction to anything is "that's not really a shmup!" Well, that's kind of the point of the topic. But I'm hoping people use their best judgement to say "this game I like is pretty shmuppy" even if it doesn't fit the textbook definition. For example, I would say Metal Slug 3 is "shmuppy" even if most people consider it a run n' gun and not a true shmup. Super Mario World, on the other hand, is clearly a platformer.

No, it really does not. When you asked if I had read the OP, I didn't respond because I a) have already read the OP and b) am not the person trying to talk about things like Vanquish, which doesn't fall into any of the categories mentioned and has nothing to do with the thread much less the genre much less anything but the Off-Topic subforum.

Christ you're a daft cunt.

[Pedro Lambrini]

Star Fox 64 is a very good 3D shmup.

I feel like I'm the only person on earth who prefers the original for SNES

It's so cool! The fake polys are so neat! That game is the futuuuuure!

Big fan of the original as well! It's just more focused and aiming lasers is much more satisfying than just doing the homing missile thing in 64 (which you need to do for scoring...). Also the last boss is fun and not a giant letdown. I always thought the game was impossible as a kid but it's pretty easy these days.

Definitely my favourite rail-shooter, it's just a blast to play through from beginning to end.

Well, I'm another person who prefers the first Star Fox game. I would love to see the game exactly as is but running at 60fps. A smooth framerate and those polys would be lovely to see.

As for my tuppence worth for the OP, I'd throw Doom into the ring. It's pretty much a twin stick shooter but (obviously!) from a FPS view. It's a pure and simple shooting experience.

[Special World]

Brutal Doom is one of the funnest things I've ever played. I don't actually like the last two acts though, just the first one. So much simpler and more pure. None of this mazey keycard business. The new Doom was pretty fun too, but kinda started to drag on a bit. Didn't have the same type of level design, either.

P.S. please learn to love each other, shmups forum