The Neogeo CD- Hate it with all the fury of the internet or?

[ACSeraph]

I'm guessing KoF '95 is better played on the Saturn since it has the ROM cart (though that makes it a less than ideal import if you only use a Action Replay 4M plus)?

Imo the definitive non-MVS/AES versions of 94-98 are found on the JP PS2 versions of 94 Rebout, Orochi Saga, and 98UM. The Saturn and PS1 versions of any of them are pointless nowadays. The only catch is that you have to import them, because rebout is Japan only, US Orochi is all sortsa fucked up, and US 98UM is censored. The only game in the series where the PS1 might be closest to AES is 99, because the version of 99 on Nests Collection is based on the 3D Dreamcast "remake".

[BrianC]

It puzzles me how SNK let Terminal Reality do SNK collections that already had a good JP version. Actually it puzzles me how a company like Terminal Reality was allowed to emulate NeoGeo games in the first place.

How exactly are the Saturn ports "pointless"? What exactly is wrong with them? I would think the ROM cart for KoF '95 would circumvent some of the usual issues (I know for sure it doesn't have the same loading issues as the NGCD version. I also meant better played on Saturn compared to the NGCD, not compared to all other systems). I know Metal Slug and some others have slowdown issues.

[ACSeraph]

They aren't bad so much as they have been thoroughly outdone. On Saturn even with the ram cart you still have to deal with load screens and the music stops playing and resets between every round. The Orochi Saga versions are pretty much load free aside from the initial load, and are seemingly exact ports of the MVS titles. They also give the option of switching between the MVS music or the (awesome) arranged soundtracks, and the music does not break between rounds. It's just a vastly superior experience in general, and I don't think you could ask for much more from ports of those games.

As for Terminal Reality, I have no fucking clue. SNK seemed determined to make their entire company terminal no matter how great the games they were producing at the time were. Instead of focusing on things like 2K2UM and Tenkaichi they pour tons of cash into Maximum Impact and Sen. Can you guess which of those games saw an international release? The UMs hit years late, 98 was inexplicably censored, and 2K2 was a bare bones digital only port.

And then when SNK began dipping into VC and PSN, did they give us the interesting late generation games like Last Blade and MotW? Nope, nothing but crusty ass ports of AoF and KoF 94. It took years for them to get around to putting anything decent or interesting on VC, and by then no one cared.

Any then we have SNKs dying breath: KoF13. The game that proved SNK was still filled to the brim with talent. But what do they do? Instead of releasing it on Nesica and having a chance to compete, they foolishly release it on it's own distinct PCB that modern JP Arcades can't afford to buy. No arcade scene in Japan is a death sentance for FG, and by the time it did hit Nesica (again years later) it was too late. At least we can say SNK died (well mostly, I guess they are about as "alive" as Cave) on a high note, but they have no one to blame for it but themselves.

[BrianC]

It's a ROM cart for 95, though the rest use the RAM cart and it does have loading screens. Looks like despite the ROM cart and less loading, it's still based on the NGCD version. While it's disappointing, I still enjoy the PS2 Real Bout collection despite the censorship. At least with Real Bout Special Saturn it's somewhat more viable giving it a try since it's cheap and I have the means to play it, but it's not a high priority on my import list.

And then when SNK began dipping into VC and PSN, did they give us the interesting late generation games like Last Blade and MotW? Nope, nothing but crusty ass ports of AoF and KoF 94. It took years for them to get around to putting anything decent or interesting on VC, and by then no one cared.

Last Blade is on Wii VC, but it did arrive late. Some NeoGeo Wii games didn't arrive until after the WiiU. Sengoku 3 is on there too, though MotW isn't.

[ACSeraph]

I have Saturn 95, and it's more or less the same quality as 96 and 97 on Sat. I think it has that unique cart simply because they hadn't figured out how to optimize their games to run off of their standard 1mb ram cart.

Again, it's not bad, and its better than NGCD if only because the loads arent too rough, but it's been outdone. I can't see any reason to buy it in 2015.

Oh also warning about the SNK stuff on Saturn: some of them don't run properly on the Capcom 4MB ram card. For some reason they only work perfectly with SNKs usual 1MB Card. So a 4MB Action replay might not work out.

[BrianC]

The Action Replay RAM cart is designed to auto detect between the 1m and the 4m. Cotton 2 (the only non-Capcom game I have that supports it) works fine with it, though that only uses it for voices, as far as I know. Thanks for the info on KoF '95. Looks like I'll be skipping it if I decide to mod my Saturn with a region switch. I'm actually a bit relived that it's not all that great a port since it's one of the few games that isn't ideal to play with the Action Replay 4m. The funny thing is I actually have the 4m Capcom cart, as well, mainly because it came with Vampire Savior.

I don't get what's up with the censorship of some US SNK PS2 games. If I remember correctly, FFBA v.1 was not censored, though the second one definitely is.

[Strider77]

https://youtu.be/zuArCXeCz_8

This shows 95 on a CDZ... the loading between characters isn't to bad to me. The initial load at the very start of a new match is a little long though.

[BryanM]

https://youtu.be/zuArCXeCz_8

This shows 95 on a CDZ... the loading between characters isn't to bad to me. The initial load at the very start of a new match is a little long though.

Seraph's right. This game is basically designed to perform terribly with slow loading mechanisms.

Think how hellish it'd be if its team feature were extended - like say you have an entire army of pokemon instead of just 3 people, and the life bar were half the size.

Still kind of miss what SNK was. We're down to what, one game company that sells hardware now?

[Strider77]

The local crowd in my area back in the day played ALOT of these on Neo CD.

[ACSeraph]

Think how hellish it'd be if its team feature were extended - like say you have an entire of army of pokemon instead of just 3 people, and the life bar were half the size.

The worst part of KoF on the NGCD is when you win a close round. Lets say you barely lose a match. The game loads your next character after like 30 seconds or so, your opponent only has a sliver of health left so you kill him within 3 seconds of the fight starting, only to be rewarded with another 30 second load. It's hell.

I have every KoF on NGCD (94-99) but I don't really ever play them because of this issue. They are really just shelf pieces, it's more fun to admire the case than it is to actually play it unfortunately.

[Skykid]

Think how hellish it'd be if its team feature were extended - like say you have an entire of army of pokemon instead of just 3 people, and the life bar were half the size.

The worst part of KoF on the NGCD is when you win a close round. Lets say you barely lose a match. The game loads your next character after like 30 seconds or so, your opponent only has a sliver of health left so you kill him within 3 seconds of the fight starting, only to be rewarded with another 30 second load. It's hell.

I have every KoF on NGCD (94-99) but I don't really ever play them because of this issue. They are really just shelf pieces, it's more fun to admire the case than it is to actually play it unfortunately.

Basically why I ditched the machine twice. Admittedly games like Top Hunter were ok because it loaded a stage at a time (I believe it loaded before bosses though, can't remember).

But I was (and still am to an extent) hardcore about KOF.I migrated from CD to SAT/PSX and then AES and that was the end of the journey.

[Strider77]

But... you bought it TWICE. How dare you do that.

[BryanM]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... I can't get fooled again.

[Skykid]

But... you bought it TWICE. How dare you do that.

CD -> CDZ. Didn't deliver on its promise.

Worth noting I worked in an environment that made it very easy to obtain such things. Console turnover was hardly a rare thing.

[ACSeraph]

But I was (and still am to an extent) hardcore about KOF.I migrated from CD to SAT/PSX and then AES and that was the end of the journey.

I gotta agree here. I love the later PS2 ports of the KoF games that include well implemented arranged soundtracks, but there's something very special about playing on the AES even if it means you are stuck with the chiptunes. I've got 94, 96, 99, and 2K on AES and I would never be willing to part with them.

As I said before I like my CDZ, and think it's sufficient for most non-KoF titles, but AES is a world above. You only have to play the system once to realize it. The pride of my collection; just wish it wasn't stuck back in the US out of my reach.

[Skykid]

My AES collection is KOF heavy, 94 - 98.

Pretty sure they're not chiptunes though, that's Game Boy era.

[Domino]

KOF 96 OST > KOF 96 AST

On topic I love the better voice acting samples on NAM-1975 CD compare to AES.

[Strider77]

I have MVS also.... there are still some I prefer on CD. Then there are some I'm indifferent about.

[ACSeraph]

KOF 96 OST > KOF 96 AST

I actually totally agree with you on this one in this case, it's one of the few where I don't prefer the arrange.

WHat is everyones favorite arrange NGCD soundtrack anyhow? I've gotta go for Gowcaizer, such a fun soundtrack that would be impossible on MVS.

[Kino]

.

[Strider77]

The shodown series in general. Pulsar also.

[stryc9]

For me, the only thing stopping the Neo Geo Online Collection being the definitive ports is the inconsistent video settings. Both of the FFBAs have 240p. Orochi 480i, Samurai Spirits and ADK Damashi both force a vaseline filter etc.

On the other hand you can toggle the soundtracks between arcade and arrange, so that's something.

I have a NGCD with a bunch of games, and the loading ranges from good (earlier games) to absolutely unacceptable (KOF and Last Blade 2). My console died a few years ago and I was thinking of picking up a new one to get the non-fighters in the library, but I'm really not sure if it's worth it given the prices on a few of the titles I know I'd want to pick up. Ironclad for example.

Crossed Swords II looks and sounds awesome though.

[ACSeraph]

Samurai Spirits and ADK Damashi

The video settings on most of them look nice and sharp on my TV so it's not a problem for me, but Samsho and ADK are fucking horrible. Having played Ninja Masters quite a bit on CDZ, I was surprised by how messed up and unclean the actual gameplay felt in that one. ADK also doesn't even have the arranged soundtrack option. It's a good thing the SS and ADK titles all function quite well on NGCD. No idea why those two are among the most expensive of the PS2 collections despite being totally terrible.

[Strider77]

Do the KOF ports on PS2 support 480p?

[ACSeraph]

I think some do, but stryc9 is right it's not consistent.

My NGCD Love:

[stryc9]

IIRC the only one of those games that supports 480p is Garou MOTW.

@ACSeraph: Nice collection

As far as the arranged versus arcade soundtracks go, I don't think anything can touch the earlier Fatal Fury games OST, so chunky and awesome sounding. The arrange versions on the FFBA (I'm assuming they're the same as the original NGCD) are mostly pretty wimpy sounding.

Samurai Spirits series on the other hand I think benefits from the arrange tracks, even though the originals were excellent anyway. Fuun Super Tag Battle is also probably better in it's arranged incarnation. Jury's out on most of the KOFs, but '95 arrange beats '95 original hands down IMO.

I think Samurai Spirits II is probably my favourite arrange overall.

[ACSeraph]

Jury's out on most of the KOFs

99 Arrange is one of the best soundtracks in the entire series IMO

[Strider77]

I think Samurai Spirits II is probably my favourite arrange overall.

This one was the one that kept nagging me in the back of my head when I sold my Neo stuff. I told myself I didn't need a CD unit after I built up my MVS carts. I bought back a CDZ and this game weeks after doing that. Actually bought back my copy. To me that CD version is the definitive version of Shodown 2.

[stryc9]

Actually I don't have '99, it's one I never really liked too much in the arcade, I'll have to give it a listen. I had the Dreamcast version at one point but I can't remember the soundtrack. I do think that KOF music sort of got worse as time went on, and XIII doesn't do anything to change my mind on that.

Interesting regarding your comments on ADK Damashi Ninja Masters. I've only played the game on the collection so I never knew the control was dodgy. I've heard Twinkle Star Sprite's graphics weren't replicated properly or something or other as well. The other games seemed OK, I used to have Ninja Combat on AES and it seemed pretty authentic, same with Ninja Commando.

There should have been one or two more of these less fighting-orientated collections IMO.

[Leandro]

I do think that KOF music sort of got worse as time went on, and XIII doesn't do anything to change my mind on that.

I think it only got bad after SNK's bankrupcy. Until 2000, it was getting better. KOF 2000 soundtrack is brilliant.