3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Much

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parallaxscroll2
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by parallaxscroll2 »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutubo_Games
Rutubo Games (ゲームのるつぼ Gêmu no Rutsubo) is a video game developer that was formed partially by former Dempa employees. Rutubo's focus has been on porting arcade conversions, mainly for Sega.
It's a shame Rutubo Games were not tasked to handle the Saturn versions of Galaxy Force II and Power Drift. If they had been, even if they couldn't do perfect ports, they would have done their level best and pulled more out of the Saturn hardware than Appaloosa and Phant did.

Hell, the actual Out Run arcade machine on Sega's super-scaler Out Run board was only 30 FPS. The framerate is no different on MAME or in Shenmue II on Dreamcast and Xbox.
Same goes for Out Run in Yu Suzuki Game Works Vol 1 on Dreamcast. They're all 30 FPS.

However when Rutubo Games ported Out Run to Saturn in 1996 for Japanese Saturn, they went above and beyond. There was a code that unlocked Smooth Mode which ran Out Run at 60 FPS.
This was still present in at least the NTSC U.S. Saturn version released in 1997 that was part of the 3-in-1 SEGA AGES compilation with Space Harrier and After Burner II, published by working designs.

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Saturn Out Run at 60FPS was amazing from a visual standpoint. However the game seems made to be played at the original 30 FPS. So when you played in 60 FPS smooth mode, the game play (not the framerate) seemed weird, it actually seemed to play slower, even though the framerate was 60.

Rutubo Games and Working Designs went all out.


Working Designs Translation Notes from the U.S. manual:

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Fudoh
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by Fudoh »

For OutRun there's fortunately Cannonball.
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BrianC
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by BrianC »

Interesting that Master System/3D is marked for Space Harrier, but not Outrun on that scan. It's EU only, but there is an Outrun 3D for SMS. Come to think of it, AB2 and Outrun aren't labeled for TG-16 either, though they only came out for the JP counterpart, the PC Engine. I noticed the list also checked Sega CD for ABII, despite it only having a port of Strike Fighter named ABIII. Not to mention that the SMS AB is based on the first game, not the second (and the 3D SMS games being technically different games from their non 3D counterparts, though OutRun less so than Space Harrier). NES Space Harrier isn't checked either, though it has a Famicom version. I guess they stick to domestic releases, though GG is checked for Outrun, which I think was JP/EU only (though Outrun Europa GG came out in the US).
parallaxscroll2
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by parallaxscroll2 »

BrianC wrote:Interesting that Master System/3D is marked for Space Harrier, but not Outrun on that scan. It's EU only, but there is an Outrun 3D for SMS. Come to think of it, AB2 and Outrun aren't labeled for TG-16 either, though they only came out for the JP counterpart, the PC Engine. I noticed the list also checked Sega CD for ABII, despite it only having a port of Strike Fighter named ABIII. Not to mention that the SMS AB is based on the first game, not the second (and the 3D SMS games being technically different games from their non 3D counterparts, though OutRun less so than Space Harrier). NES Space Harrier isn't checked either, though it has a Famicom version. I guess they stick to domestic releases, though GG is checked for Outrun, which I think was JP/EU only (though Outrun Europa GG came out in the US).
The list of home ports was very incomplete, even for the time.
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by GaijinPunch »

Anyway, I want a copy of this:

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I think I have an extra one (for sale).
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parallaxscroll2
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by parallaxscroll2 »

null1024 wrote:
EmperorIng wrote:Unfortunately, the Saturn was not strong enough to completely translate Galaxy Force II on its system. The port was a decent attempt though. We can only dream about some Sega Y-board-based console released instead of the Saturn.
The Saturn is about as good as the X-Board, except that it can also do 4 point quads and the background VDP is an absolute beast.
Mind you, I really wish the Saturn had some of the Sega System 32 in it, christ. Now that is a Super Scaler beast.
It was pretty heavily rumored in 1991-1992 (and long after that) that Sega's in-development 32-Bit console was based on the System 32 board.
The never-officially-confirmed codename for this supposed System32-derived console was Giga Drive according to EGM and other publications.

Whatever Sega's early 32-Bit console was, it eventually evolved into Project Mars / 32X for Genesis/MD and the Saturn.
That is not to say the finalized 32X or Saturn had much, if anything, to do with the System 32 board. It has been said though, that Saturn's VDP1 was a progression
on the sprite technology in System 32.
VDP1, was a logical progression of the well established frame buffer-based sprite rendering hardware implemented in Sega's System 24 and System 32 arcade platforms.
http://segaretro.org/Sega_Saturn?rdfrom ... irect%3Dno

I don't know what the truth of the matter actually is, but anyway, it's kinda curious that M2 calls their Mega Drive emulator for the 3DS "Giga Drive"
(read the interviews).

The following is taken directly from EGM in late 1990, into 1991:

EGM Number 15, October 1990
(Gaming Gossip)
...Genesis Giga-Drive in Japan

...First we get the Mega Drive, then the Game Gear, and now the Giga Drive? The latest rumors from Japan tell of an even more advanced Sega system with scaling functions as well as the ability to manipulate a larger number of more colorful characters! Could it be true? From the one game company that seems to be taking an aggressive stab at just about anything, a Giga-Drive could be a possibility, but I have to see it with my own eyes first. Sure sounds rippin' though....

EGM Number 16, November 1990
(Letters to the Editor)
SEGA 32 BIT SYSTEM!

Recently I've heard that there are rumors concerning a 32 bit converter for the Genesis! Please confirm this rumor, because if this is true, then watch out NES and NEC here comes Genesis!

Tim Chung
Calgary, Alta
You've got the most awesome mag out there! How about an in depth on Strider? And what about the 32 bit Genesis?
(ed. There have been many rumors about a 32 bit system for Genesis, Code name Giga Drive (Giga being 1000 times bigger than Mega, as in the Japanese Mega Drive), is still a long ways from production. It's not just a dream though, as the 'System 32' arcade version is up and running. And, we know that what fits on an arcade mother board can eventually be shrunk down to fit inside a Giga Drive case! For the first look at the forerunner to the home Giga Drive, feast your eyes on this!)
(They showed a black & white photograph of the System 32 board here but I don't have scans)



EGM Number 19, February 1991
(Letters to the Editor)
GIGA DRIVE?...

I called Sega and asked them about the Giga Drive. They said there is no such thing. And they said that you made it up. And there is no ' System 32' "up and running". They also said that if you look real close at the picture in issue number 16 of the so called Giga Drive, you'd see that it is a drawing. So, I would like to know what you have to say about this?

Jimmy Burleson
Phil Campbell, AL
(ed. Will Jimmy, these are the kind of problems we run into when we either, know more than the company does, know more than the company wants us to know, or know more than the company wants you to know.
With regards to your questions the 'System 32', a code name for Sega's new 32 bit arcade machine, is indeed up and running. In Japan, that is. Last September, at JAMMA, the Japanese arcade show, one game - Rad Mobile was quite playable. The photo we ran in issue 16 was not an illustration. Rather it was an actual B and W photo of the motherboard of that System 32. And, as MegaDrive/Genesis was born from their 16 bit arcade system, it is not difficult to imagine a Giga Drive emerging from this new System 32. But it is probable that 1991 will be the year of the CD-ROM wars. That would make 1992 the earliest the next-generation of Sega machines would appear, That is, unless NEC makes the 32 bit jump first!?...)


The System 32 board was not defined by Sega as being one of Super-Scaler boards -- Even though System 32 certainly had extremely strong scaling & rotation capability of its own. System 32 was Sega's next step in 2D/sprite technology before moving onto the Model 1 polygon board co-designed with General Electric Aerospace and the Model 2 board co-designed with Martin Marietta (MM bought out GE's Aerospace division in 1993).

Of course, Sega would revisit 2D/sprite tech with the final version of Saturn and the ST-V Titan (Saturn-Titan Video?) arcade board.

One thing is certain, Sega had many R&D projects going on, for both arcade and consumer products, over generations of hardware. Some saw the light of day, others did not.
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by ZellSF »

Fudoh wrote:For OutRun there's fortunately Cannonball.
Sadly it hasn't resulted in any good portable versions yet. Unless you're one of the very few that have an OpenPandora.
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by null1024 »

ZellSF wrote:
Fudoh wrote:For OutRun there's fortunately Cannonball.
Sadly it hasn't resulted in any good portable versions yet. Unless you're one of the very few that have an OpenPandora.
I am desperately wishing that Cannonball gets ported to the PSP.
Playing the Genesis version on it just isn't the same.

Also, OutRun does that odd thing that NiGHTS does -- the background does run at 60fps. The rest of the graphics are updated at 30.
Come check out my website, I guess. Random stuff I've worked on over the last two decades.
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by ZellSF »

null1024 wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
Fudoh wrote:For OutRun there's fortunately Cannonball.
Sadly it hasn't resulted in any good portable versions yet. Unless you're one of the very few that have an OpenPandora.
I am desperately wishing that Cannonball gets ported to the PSP.
Playing the Genesis version on it just isn't the same.
I think there's some performance problems with it still, the OpenPandora port doesn't run it fullspeed if you use high resolution assets and 60fps at the same time either... then again the OpenGL update might've fixed those problems.

Second problem being that the PSP homebrew scene isn't very active. Updated ports of Duke3D, Doom, Quake, Star Control 2, Tyrian, Quake etc sure would be nice too...

I really wouldn't count on it happening, ever.
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by parallaxscroll2 »

Man, Taito sure ripped off Galaxy Force when they made Galactic Storm in '91:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=205TMQ1Nkfw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l6rBA8B_2g
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by null1024 »

Damn. Taito's hardware certainly was impressive. Looked like an F3 game, although if it was, the flyer certainly would have mentioned it.

also, Googling the game [galactic storm taito] links an old-ass thread from 2007 about it: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16752
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by parallaxscroll2 »

null1024 wrote:Damn. Taito's hardware certainly was impressive. Looked like an F3 game, although if it was, the flyer certainly would have mentioned it.
I'm not very knowledgeable about Taito hardware but according to System16.com Galactic Storm is on Taito 68020 Based Hardware.
Sounds like it's got features from both Taito Z System and F3.
CPU : 68020
Sound CPU : 68000
Sound Chip : Ensoniq ES5505 @ 16MHz
Custom Tilemap Chip : TC0480SCP
Custom Chips :
TC0470LIN - ?
TC0510NIO - known input chip
TC0570SPC - must be the object chip (next to spritemap and OBJ roms)
TC0590PIV - Piv tilemaps
TC0620SCC - lightgun ??? pivot port ???
TC0650FDA - palette ? (Slapshot and F3 games also have one)
Notes : Chase Bombers and Under Fire combines the sprite system used in Taito Z games with the TC0480SCP tilemap chip plus some features from the Taito F3 system. It has an extra tilemap chip which is a dead ringer for the TC0100SCN.. Why did Taito give it a different name in this incarnation?
http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=663
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by louisg »

I thought Power Drift on Saturn was a really good port. It's better than the Galaxy Force II port, at any rate-- that one could've been a little better probably.
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by slk486 »

Love this thread. Still waiting for a proper port of Thunder Blade myself :lol:
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by GaijinPunch »

parallaxscroll2 wrote:Man, Taito sure ripped off Galaxy Force when they made Galactic Storm in '91:
Galactic Storm is awesome though.
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by parallaxscroll2 »

slk486 wrote:Love this thread. Still waiting for a proper port of Thunder Blade myself :lol:
The only good port was for X68000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtE6bDAqWmU

Not arcade perfect but still really sweet.
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slk486
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Re: 3D Galaxy Force II is Incredible - On Saturn? Not So Muc

Post by slk486 »

Does look quite good. Now to get an x68000 :lol:
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