when it comes to scoring, i've never been big on combo-type systems.
i think my favorite game to score on is Feveron. it's hectic and laugh-when-you-die awesome every time.
RNGmaster wrote:
Blackbird wrote:I prefer scoring systems that emphasize survival and/or risk vs. reward.
Extended, game long chains feel a bit unforgiving to me in that a single mistake ruins the whole run.
Yeah, and that's exactly why I don't care for Ibara/Raizing scoring.
on this note, how the fuck does scoring in Dimahoo work? it's one of my favorite games of all time but i've never even bothered to think about how to actually score, because i'm just enjoying bullshitting around and picking up treasure items too much.
Running with what the survivalists are introducing to the discussion - there is a lot of potential for adding scoring frills to that style of play and sort of bridging the gap. Rather than the score being another layer of depth, it could be a more fully-realised indicator of how well the player is taking advantage of the basic mechanics - economy of fire, economy of movement, rewarding the player based on how well risks taken pay off (as opposed to rewarding based on virtually any risks taken at all). Ending each stage with a ludicrous amount of stats that all contribute to a total score and maybe assigning the player a playstyle 'type' based on how they play the game (scorched earth, pacifist, reactionary, confrontational etc.) and awarding extra points baded on how well they do what they do. Complex scoring 'AI' that can calculate/judge stuff like that (a shmup artificial dungeon master, if you will) would be an interesting direction for the genre to go in.
Also, giving you good positive, immediate feedback on the things you actually improved on when you lose a life/game over would help alleviate the frustration of a failed run.
Blackbird wrote:I prefer scoring systems that emphasize survival and/or risk vs. reward.
Extended, game long chains feel a bit unforgiving to me in that a single mistake ruins the whole run.
Yeah, and that's exactly why I don't care for Ibara/Raizing scoring. One mistake drops you back to 100 medals, and those totally screw you rank-wise aside from making you start from scratch and lose scoring ability. I'd say medal chaining is about as bad as DDP chaining.
Medal chaining isn't remotely as bad as DDP chaining, imo. A drop isn't that big of a deal rank-wise, and score-wise (proportionally speaking) it's nothing like a DDP drop. Also, it's much easier to drop your DDP chain than it is to drop your medal chain
Drum wrote:Running with what the survivalists are introducing to the discussion - there is a lot of potential for adding scoring frills to that style of play and sort of bridging the gap. Rather than the score being another layer of depth, it could be a more fully-realised indicator of how well the player is taking advantage of the basic mechanics - economy of fire, economy of movement, rewarding the player based on how well risks taken pay off (as opposed to rewarding based on virtually any risks taken at all). Ending each stage with a ludicrous amount of stats that all contribute to a total score and maybe assigning the player a playstyle 'type' based on how they play the game (scorched earth, pacifist, reactionary, confrontational etc.) and awarding extra points baded on how well they do what they do. Complex scoring 'AI' that can calculate/judge stuff like that (a shmup artificial dungeon master, if you will) would be an interesting direction for the genre to go in.
Also, giving you good positive, immediate feedback on the things you actually improved on when you lose a life/game over would help alleviate the frustration of a failed run.
This is actually a really brilliant idea. I think I may keep this in mind for future game development brainstorms.
RNGmaster wrote:Yeah, and that's exactly why I don't care for Ibara/Raizing scoring. One mistake drops you back to 100 medals, and those totally screw you rank-wise aside from making you start from scratch and lose scoring ability. I'd say medal chaining is about as bad as DDP chaining.
But you bring up Guwange as an example of a good scoring system!?
renardqueenston wrote:how the fuck does scoring in Dimahoo work?
The value of items is determined by how many full sets of one you have. Each item type has 8 variants, corresponding to the level of your charge attack when it destroys enemies. Each set you complete multiplies their value. For example, complete a set boots and all items after are worth twice as many points. Complete a set of accessories after that and they'll be worth 3x. Beware though; the game gets tougher the more complete sets you have. The thing I hate about Dimahoo's scoring system is that the method for seeing your collected items (hold Start for a few seconds and then press button 1 at the same time, Start to cycle through sets) is completely unintuitive and easily gets you killed. Not to mention they're displayed in a fairly unfriendly location. You're almost better off memorizing what you pick up.
Of course, that's just an opinion. Always seeking netplay fans to play emulated arcade games with.
RNGmaster wrote:Yeah, and that's exactly why I don't care for Ibara/Raizing scoring. One mistake drops you back to 100 medals, and those totally screw you rank-wise aside from making you start from scratch and lose scoring ability. I'd say medal chaining is about as bad as DDP chaining.
When I play Raizing games I dont play them for score, the rank becomes much easier when you avoid medals and certain items (varys from game to game, in Batrider its the little weapon upgrades and reverse in Garegga I believe). I felt proud when I 1cced Batrider on normal mode the other day.
renardqueenston wrote:how the fuck does scoring in Dimahoo work?
The value of items is determined by how many full sets of one you have. Each item type has 8 variants, corresponding to the level of your charge attack when it destroys enemies. Each set you complete multiplies their value. For example, complete a set boots and all items after are worth twice as many points. Complete a set of accessories after that and they'll be worth 3x. Beware though; the game gets tougher the more complete sets you have. The thing I hate about Dimahoo's scoring system is that the method for seeing your collected items (hold Start for a few seconds and then press button 1 at the same time, Start to cycle through sets) is completely unintuitive and easily gets you killed. Not to mention they're displayed in a fairly unfriendly location. You're almost better off memorizing what you pick up.
i never even knew about the method of looking at your collected items! i'm just gonna keep playing this one for funsies.
is it true, that in Dimahoo, the items effect your ship too> boots make you faster, armor shrinks your hit box, swords make you stronger, etc? That's what I had always thought, and that was my only "score" ha ha, the faith that I was becoming faster and stronger all the time.
I play DoDonPachi (and now DOJ) solely for survival and I still enjoy them a lot. Is that weird? I figure after I can 1cc them that I'll start trying to chain.
bostongeorge wrote:I play DoDonPachi (and now DOJ) solely for survival and I still enjoy them a lot. Is that weird? I figure after I can 1cc them that I'll start trying to chain.
i've always done the same. i can't score for crap in DDP, but it's still way fun. the only CAVEs i haven't really been able to get into due to their emphasis on complicated scoring is the Espgaluda games. the content just isn't for me, so i can't enjoy it as a plain ol' shooter.
dpful wrote:is it true, that in Dimahoo, the items effect your ship too> boots make you faster, armor shrinks your hit box, swords make you stronger, etc?
Nah, they don't affect your ship. They do, however, make the rank increase. The game gets very difficult (as if it wasn't hard enough already) by your 4th set, and insanely by your 7th.
Edit: Items do make the adaptive difficulty increase but the biggest factor by far is how much time you spend fighting bosses. You can try to speed kill them and keep it down a bit around the middle of the game, but unfortunately by the time you beat Infernon you're almost guaranteed to have the difficulty maxed out for the final stage, making any sort of adaptive difficulty management by holding back on picking up point items a bit pointless.
Last edited by MathU on Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Of course, that's just an opinion. Always seeking netplay fans to play emulated arcade games with.
RNGmaster wrote:Yeah, and that's exactly why I don't care for Ibara/Raizing scoring. One mistake drops you back to 100 medals, and those totally screw you rank-wise aside from making you start from scratch and lose scoring ability. I'd say medal chaining is about as bad as DDP chaining.
But you bring up Guwange as an example of a good scoring system!?
It's a lot better than DoDonPachi has always been.
bostongeorge wrote:I play DoDonPachi (and now DOJ) solely for survival and I still enjoy them a lot. Is that weird? I figure after I can 1cc them that I'll start trying to chain.
It's worth learning how to chain the first few stages, which you'll be playing a lot anyway, for the extends.
RNGmaster wrote:Yeah, and that's exactly why I don't care for Ibara/Raizing scoring. One mistake drops you back to 100 medals, and those totally screw you rank-wise aside from making you start from scratch and lose scoring ability. I'd say medal chaining is about as bad as DDP chaining.
But you bring up Guwange as an example of a good scoring system!?
Chaining sucks, but shikigami use is just amazing.
RNGmaster wrote:Yeah, and that's exactly why I don't care for Ibara/Raizing scoring. One mistake drops you back to 100 medals, and those totally screw you rank-wise aside from making you start from scratch and lose scoring ability. I'd say medal chaining is about as bad as DDP chaining.
But you bring up Guwange as an example of a good scoring system!?
Chaining sucks, but shikigami use is just amazing.
I second RNGmaster's thought - I wouldn'tve gotten into Guwange if it weren't for the really cool use of a second entity to control. And with this method of control you'd be surprised how precision controlling Guwange in MAME with the controls set to the mouse works.
