Sega of America closing its doors who do we blame this time?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Actually, them mass produced Atari 2600 E.T. carts are buried in an undisclosed Arizona desert somewhere according to Steven L. Kent's "First Quarter" book about the history of both arcade games & home video game consoles. I used to play it and get in the neighborhood of 60,000+ points back in the early 1980s.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm kinda skeptical about the game's combat system after this, however.

Capcom has its own history of releasing dodgy peripherals, but Onimusha 3 was a compromise to begin with. 1&2 are the shit (especially 2, combat-wise), as it was really 2D gameplay at heart. It was good to see tank controls alive and kicking in God Hand after all these years, with analogue controls and full 3D making more sense this time around.

Did you play Bayonetta? I'd say that's better than anything Capcom's put out this gen (of course it's by ex-employees, but hey). I've heard a lot of great things about Valkyria Chronicles, and that's Sega-developed.

Have yet to play either, but these two are among the very few current-gen "big" console games I have any interest in. Japanese console games, whoa, rather than something I'd be better off playing on the PC. To be fair, non-Japanese Darksiders look decent too (but the PC version is annouced).
Doesn't matter that much who makes the games, as long as the company's name brands good stuff. Every big company do outsourcing now and then. For example, Capcom made The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons for Nintendo.

As much as I feel blase about their new stuff, however, Konami seems to have a more diverse portfolio of corporate-owned franchises than Capcom - something like Winning Eleven, as much as we laugh, is capturing a part of the market that another fighting game series doesn't necessarily.

PES used to be absolutely huge in Europe. There was a time when EA's FIFA series had nothing on it. When Pro Evolution Soccer 3 hit the PC, mod scene took off etc. It was totally grand.

I'm really trying to rack my brains to think of anything Capcom put out in the platformer game area that I liked as much as the best from Sega or Konami. Ghosts 'n' ? Shinobi or Castlevania please, just for the balance. That said, like Final Fantasy, Mega Man is one of those series I have blocked wholesale from my consciousness. One of these days I'll tackle it.

Strider 2 is rather good (haven't played the original yet). I prefer Ninja Spirit/Saigo no Nindou by Irem (REAL ninja don't have lifebars, I'm tellin' ya), but Strider 2 is about speedrunning rather than sheer survival and bodycount.

[CMoon]

Wonder if this means Sega games will have to be distributed by someone else in the US (not a bad thing), and if that means will see thinks like Yakuza 4 put out by Atlus.

Hope Platinum games finds a different distro.

[Domino]

From what I heard it is only the game studio that is closing down, not the branch itself.

[Jonathan Ingram]

In Japan Yakuza is succesful, but gameplay-wise it's not even a patch on the Onimusha series.

Onimusha wishes its combat was even half as deep as Ryu ga Gotoku`s(not to say that RgG`s combat is incredibly deep compared to some other games, but compared to Onimusha it very much is). Seriously, have you played any RgG games besides the first one, especially Ryu ga Gotoku: Kenzan?

- framerate should be higher than 30 fps (really)

30fps is what 95% of games run at. So, what`s the problem?

- combat system shouldn't suck the dick.

And it really doesn`t.

[cj iwakura]

The last genuinely amazing Sega game I played was Panzer Dragoon Orta.


And Smilebit is gone.


Coincidence?


I was never that impressed by Yakuza. It's Shenmue without a soul.

And to build on that, I didn't like Shenmue II much either. Shenmue I had personality, a community. People you could talk to and relate with.


Shenmue II, you just go around looking for sailors and beating people up.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Im hoping that in the near future Sega will bring back their old IPs like what they are doing with sonic 4 (minus all that crap with the fans etc) Im guessing once they release sonic and have a look at the sales figures that theres plenty of 25- 35 years olds willing to open their wallets for such games (even with the fuck ups I would prolly put the number of sales on par with capcoms megaman 9, anyone know MM9s sales figures?)

Still it is Sega so who knows what new and novel ways theyll "fuck it up" in the future

[ShmupSamurai]

Still it is Sega so who knows what new and novel ways theyll "fuck it up" in the future

Thank you for jinxing the future TVR....

and Sega...

The last genuinely amazing Sega game I played was Panzer Dragoon Orta.


And Smilebit is gone.


Coincidence?

Where the hell is that Panzer Dragoon RPG you promised us after Otra, dammit??

[Specineff]

I'd settle for a remake of Saga with Orta's graphics.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Im hoping that in the near future Sega will bring back their old IPs like what they are doing with sonic 4 (minus all that crap with the fans etc) Im guessing once they release sonic and have a look at the sales figures that theres plenty of 25- 35 years olds willing to open their wallets for such games (even with the fuck ups I would prolly put the number of sales on par with capcoms megaman 9, anyone know MM9s sales figures?)

Still it is Sega so who knows what new and novel ways theyll "fuck it up" in the future

Sonic going episodic DLC is nothing short of a disaster imo. It's their flagship franchise, and they can't release a proper game on consoles like Nintendo does with Mario?

[Elixir]

Fragging Sega forgot they owned the Streets Of Rage franchise. Which gave us the horrendous Fighting Force (Seriously Eidos, WTF. Get back into the kitchen and make me a Legacy of Kain sandwich.), and other clones that couldn't even measure.

They. Forgot. Their. Own. Franchise.

I think I heard Tom Kalinske weeping, btw.

They didn't forget it, Streets of Rage 4 was in development for the Dreamcast before SoJ decided to kill the DC way early, while games were still in development.

If I knew zero Japanese I'd be pretty annoyed by this news, but even excluding this, what have they localized recently worth playing? As if Resonance of Fate wouldn't get localized without them. Or Bayonetta. Oh yeah, Bayonetta's PS3 port sucked, wasn't that Sega of Japan's doing though? And I remember reading somewhere that the producer of the Yakuza series thought non-Japanese gamers weren't "intellectual enough" for the series. Kiss that series goodbye.

Looking at their lineup, it's pretty grim. I see Thor and Iron Man 2.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Onimusha wishes its combat was even half as deep as Ryu ga Gotoku`s(not to say that RgG`s combat is incredibly deep compared to some other games, but compared to Onimusha it very much is).

I have never claimed Onimusha combat to be deep (much like I wouldn't call Tetris a deep game). The combat in Onimusha on the surface is all about button mashing, whereas under the skin it's all about hissatsu. If I would be able to play through the entire Onimusha killing everyone with the basic sword hissatsu, that'd be pretty sweet.

Seriously, have you played any RgG games besides the first one, especially Ryu ga Gotoku: Kenzan?

I'm playing through the original Yakuza and the combat blows compared to quite a few PS2 fighting games I could name.

- framerate should be higher than 30 fps (really)

30fps is what 95% of games run at. So, what`s the problem?

Oddly enough, fighting games I respect for the combat seem to be running at higher framerate (at least for the most part). Even Blood Will Tell with its unpolished engine and significant framerate drops.
High framerate results in better looking animations and more responsive controls. What's the problem, then? The problem is that even PSX alone seems to have more games with silk-smooth framerate and tight controls than the entire current generation of consoles. Beat 'em up running at 30 fps is a fucking joke. Yakuza plays like a game designed by someone who haven't played (let alone made) any arcade game. THAT is supposed to be Sega's badass poster child of action adventure these days?!

- combat system shouldn't suck the dick.

And it really doesn`t.

Have YOU played God Hand? It's the only freeroaming 3D fighting game I know with the combat system as transparent, fair and neat as in the finest 2D fighters (Onimusha 1&2 don't really count, as they are not in full 3D). I can't see why after God Hand we should demand anything less from a game with the Yakuza level of budget, where you have to beat people up a lot in over the top manner.

[Ed Oscuro]

"In 2006, McDonald's changed the design of their McFlurry containers to be more hedgehog-friendly." - Wikipedia

Come on Sega, everybody is trying to help you out

Actually, perhaps the decline of Sega is inextricably tied to the redesign of the McFlurry cup.

It was in 2001 that a postman first found a hedgehog with its head stuck in a McFlurry carton, and alerted the society, in the first of hundreds of SOS calls.

Fuck I love hedgehogs, but you have to wonder about using a critter as a mascot that literally gets stuck in plastic cup covers.

In any case, a random assortment of similar furries and one hideous fat thing doesn't really compare well to Nintendo's assortment of characters, or even the scattered offerings of a company like Capcom. Sega does have a lot of other characters but they often are so far apart in tone that they can't really leverage them for the "super stars" type thing Nintendo loves to do.

[system11]

- framerate should be higher than 30 fps (really)

30fps is what 95% of games run at. So, what`s the problem?

And 95% of politicians are liars and cheats, but that still doesn't make it OK to be one.

60fps should be the standard.

[The Coop]

could this be the beginning of the videogame crash of 2012? I heard they just buried 1000's of ET cartridges in the Iraqi desert.

Actually it was thousands of 50 Cent: Bulletproof copies. They originally planned for it to be "Blood on the Sand," but felt it would be too oddly fitting.

[s3rris]

I BLAME THE SEGA SATURN.

[neorichieb1971]

You can't blame the Sega Saturn. A new challenger came into town at that point. If Sony had not entered the ring with the super heavy weight Playstation the Saturn would have been a success. You have to remember the Saturn launched in Japan first and was a mega hit for the first week or so. But then PS1 came out with Ridge Racer and Sega realized the Saturn wasn't up to that standard. Not to mention Sega had nothing beyond Virtual Fighter to sell the system. I think it took Saturn 4 months for Panzer Dragoon to come out. By then Sony had Jumping Flash, Toh shin den and Tekken lined up.

I would also argue the 32X, Neptune, Game Gear and whatever else they made hurt its reputation as well.


The main reason Sega failed is purely marketting, dev support, cost of system, competition and the closedown of arcades worldwide. Sega could easily have Pioneered their way out of it by pushing technology further in ways where arcades were still needed. But all they did was make 3D games that were easily ported to the Playstation and a headache to port to the Saturn. Thats like russian roulette.

[Ed Oscuro]

Game Gear itself wasn't too bad, it was the fact that it was expensive, huge, and a battery glutton that did it in. Some good games though. Looking forward to getting one modded with a new screen someday.

32X was definitely garbage, library-wise.

[Jockel]

In other news, Jet Set Radio, Shenmue and Sonic Adventure probably coming up for XBLA (at least they are on Partnernet from what i've read).
Honestly if the new DLC squad pumps out games like those on a regular base,
i'm all for the paradigm shift from new and shitty DVD releases to awesome downloadable re-releases.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Still it is Sega so who knows what new and novel ways theyll "fuck it up" in the future

Thank you for jinxing the future TVR....

and Sega...

Its allways my fault, im eternally unlucky, for every word i type someone somewhere in the world will catch his knob on his fly. The reason why i type so much is because im a evil bastard

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha

As for Sonic been episodic i too am not too keen on it as the length of the old sonics was just right. Still it might not be that bad when we can play em 2 at a time or all together if we so wanted. BTW how many episodes is there planned?
I hope sega doesnt pull a valve a take forever between episodes (Where the fuck is HL2 ep 3?)

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Game Gear itself wasn't too bad, it was the fact that it was expensive, huge, and a battery glutton that did it in. Some good games though. Looking forward to getting one modded with a new screen someday.

32X was definitely garbage, library-wise.

The portable gaming handhelds of the Atari Lynx, the NEC Turbo Express & the Sega Nomad all share a fine appetite for eating batteries by the handful. Best bet is to get a handy A/C adapter for each one and that battery gluttony issue is solved.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Obiwanshinobi]

As the locked thread where we just had a nice derailment is locked, I'm gonna continue my rant here.

Elixir's right on this one (oh god, I'm agreeing with Elixir?!), they are really different games. God Hand is all about the combat where it is kind of a minor thing in Yakuza. You have an arcade style game, and you are comparing it to a completely story-driven console oriented game. If God Hand and Yakuza are the same genre, than Contra and Metal Gear Solid should also be the same genre.

Oh dear.

God Hand is all about the combat where it is kind of a minor thing in Yakuza.

Um, no it's not a minor thing in Yakuza at all. The combat's mediocrity doesn't change the fact that beating the game requires plenty of it, and I mean PLENTY.

You have an arcade style game, and you are comparing it to a completely story-driven console oriented game. If God Hand and Yakuza are the same genre, than Contra and Metal Gear Solid should also be the same genre.

It is possible for a game to be in multiple (sub)genres at once. For instance, God of War is technically a DMC clone (even though Onimusha was a direct inspiration), and yet at the same time can be rightfully called a cinematic platformer as it derives heavily from the likes of Another World (Out of this World) and Heart of Darkness, which is more than I can say about DMC.
Letting Yakuza get away with its poor combat/low framerate just because it's got the story is like letting SotC get away with its poor framerate and overall technical cackness just because "Ueda pushed the platform". I know right, when they ask you "why, after all those years of development for Sony's money, your game runs like shit?", what else san you say than "because I have pushed the platform"? Such excuses, however, do not alter the nature of things the games in discussion consist of, like "the gameplay".
If Yakuza isn't about the combat, then why it consists mostly of combat (certainly more than 50% if you count in the loadings and don't spend even more time playing on slot machines or something like that)? It's practically a 3D brawler (you can't do much else about people trying to mug you every 20 seconds or so than beat 'em up between two nice, fat loadings). At 30 frames per second.

[Elixir]

I'm gonna continue my rant here.

Why?

Let's see:

Yakuza's combat is mediocre - opinion, apparently influenced by FPS, leading into
FPS matters in either game - wrong, leading into
Yakuza's content could run at 60 fps without "pushing the console to its limits" - wrong
A developer claiming they're "pushing console limits" is an excuse, wonder why Yakuza doesn't - wrong
The games are related merely because you beat people up - wrong
Yakuza's emphasis isn't about story and development - wrong
God Hand's story is relevant and comparable to Yakuza - wrong

I don't feel like putting any more effort into this, your entire view is completely and utterly wrong in every possible form. The fact that you *actually* resurrected a dead thread to persist with such absurd views is only showing everyone how desperate you are.

[CMoon]

*sighs*

I don't have any real clue what point you were trying to make, but super-technical arcade style brawler is not the same genre as text-driven adventure story with sloppy fighting engine.

I really like both God Hand and Yakuza and have sunk countless hours into both, but for the life of me I can't figure out what the hell you're going on about.

[CMoon]

If Yakuza isn't about the combat, then why it consists mostly of combat (certainly more than 50% if you count in the loadings and don't spend even more time playing on slot machines or something like that)? It's practically a 3D brawler (you can't do much else about people trying to mug you every 20 seconds or so than beat 'em up between two nice, fat loadings). At 30 frames per second.

How much Yakuza have you actually played?

[BryanM]

Anybody here familiar with Golden Axe Warrior? That was on nice Zelda clone. Really, it's atrocious they've fallen so far..

Their franchise power isn't really that great. Remember how in Shadow Dancer, the #1 nemesis was Redneck With A Knife. You have a ninja as the hero, a top of the food chain super predator, and his villain... is a redneck.. with a knife...

Now, Altered Beast? You could maybe turn it into a GTA clone with good combat. Or a cutesy platformer like Cave Story. But it wouldn't be Altered Beast - just some game where you play a shapeshifter.

Is trying to update an arcade game, while trying to remain faithful to its roots, as hopeless as trying to update Joust or Pac-Man? Are these types of games just innately better as one-offs?

Shit remember how they frittered away the Shining Force brand? Those guys did extraordinarily well with the constraints given, and the suits shitted all over them.

Compare this to Nintendo, which has managed, especially since the 90s, to "lock down" the art into something familiar

I had this freaky dream last night, that the art style of every pokemon game changed with each major release. Like, the last one had a bright, simple color palette, with the colors extending "outside the lines", a bit like a NES game..... while the latest one all of the pokemon where just people dressed up, like with a mask or in the style of one of those chinese dragon costumes.

My dreams are always better than reality.

[Cuilan]

Is trying to update an arcade game, while trying to remain faithful to its roots, as hopeless as trying to update Joust or Pac-Man? Are these types of games just innately better as one-offs?

Pac-Man CE >>>>>>> Pac-Man

[BryanM]

I'm not saying awesome niche improved versions can't be released, just that the well isn't so deep. And for every Ms. PacMan and CE, there's stuff like Gaplus, the GBA Altered Beast game, um, Joust 2.

It's a lot like yearly sports titles, where the heart of the thing changes very slowly, as making something "different" often means just making it worse, since if that design choice was really better, it probably would have been in the original game.

[Obiwanshinobi]

*sighs*

I don't have any real clue what point you were trying to make, but super-technical arcade style brawler is not the same genre as text-driven adventure story with sloppy fighting engine.

I really like both God Hand and Yakuza and have sunk countless hours into both, but for the life of me I can't figure out what the hell you're going on about.

The point being: "sloppy fighting engine" and low framerate WOULD be excusable in an action adventure game IF the combat was only a marginal feature (like in, say, Ocarina of Time), which isn't the case with Yakuza. In Yakuza the combat is exactly what happens MOST of the time when there is no cutscene going.

How much Yakuza have you actually played?

I seem to be near the end of the first one. Don't know how many hours in, but I've got pretty much all stats maxed.

Yakuza's content could run at 60 fps without "pushing the console to its limits" - wrong

The combat happens on closed arenas which actually take their sweet time to load in. No need to stream the crowds or anything. There's nothing during the combat that PS2 wouldn't be able to render at 60 fps, dare I say.

The fact that you *actually* resurrected a dead thread to persist with such absurd views is only showing everyone how desperate you are.

See, everyone? That's how desperate I am.

[Skykid]

Letting Yakuza get away with its poor combat/low framerate just because it's got the story is like letting SotC get away with its poor framerate and overall technical cackness just because "Ueda pushed the platform".

Oh my god, broken record syndrome. How many different threads are you going to attempt to post in whereby you find a way to wrangle in something to do with ragging on SOTC because of it's framerate. It's like every time a topic is raised, regardless of subject, it ends up on this.

Forget trying to convince the community of the shmups forum that framerates are as important as you perceive them to be, you can take a framereate bible onto the streets and preach to the global community. Maybe you can be a travelling vagabond, Ryu style, telling everyone you meet that they've sinned for enjoying the hell out of SOTC because it actually isn't the great game they think it is because of the framerate.

Seriously though, it's getting boring listening to someone being wrong all the time.