Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

[Ganelon]

Er... I didn't say that dude, I said they have a different kind of depth.

Yeah, you said less strategy and more senses, which is the exact opposite when it comes to RPGs, adventures, strategy, wargames, sims (of any sort), and likely every other genre. In each case, JP games focus on creating an emotional atmosphere whereas US games attempt to offer realism via freedom and/or statistical exactness.

[Klatrymadon]

In each case, JP games focus on creating an emotional atmosphere whereas US games attempt to offer realism via freedom and/or statistical exactness.

I think that's a fair enough appraisal of the major difference in an awful lot of cases, aye...

[The n00b]

I take it one step farther. I won't play a game if a non-Japanese hand has touched it. I can almost smell when a simple minded Westerner has man handled my game with his ape-like appendages. Truly a game smells sort of stale and like Axe body wash if it's been in the presence of a Westerner too long.

I also like to dress up as Chun-li for otaku conventions...

[CStarFlare]

The n00b is a man of noble thoughts.

Westerners can not comprehend the lofty ideals of kawaii and sugoi required to produce quality video games.

[Specineff]

You forgot Moe.

[Stormwatch]

[Skykid]

Er... I didn't say that dude, I said they have a different kind of depth.

Yeah, you said less strategy and more senses, which is the exact opposite when it comes to RPGs, adventures, strategy, wargames, sims (of any sort), and likely every other genre. In each case, JP games focus on creating an emotional atmosphere whereas US games attempt to offer realism via freedom and/or statistical exactness.

I don't think there's any disagreement here, I just think I didn't bother to flesh out my take on the differences between the two.
There's no way I would ever discount the JP efforts in terms of creating an emotional atmosphere - the depth of strategy I referred to are more confined to 2D games like shmups and fighters.

But man, I'm actually getting a little bored of the Japanese take on 'emotional' impact in their games. At first it was kind of cute and endearing because it was a little OTT or off keel. Four Metal Gear Solids later and a bunch of androgynous, possibly homosexual Gackt band members leading every Final Fantasy like some kind of cosplay fanfare, part of me is screaming for the normality of the west.

Shit. Never thought I'd say that out loud.

[kemical]

look to indie games and support that type of stuff.

[Klatrymadon]

"Emotional atmosphere" has a lot more to do with art direction and music than with hokey plotlines and shite characters, to be fair...

[Ed Oscuro]

@ topic title

yes I think it is a good idea to limit myself to gundam hex RPGs and dragon quest along with the occasional shmup

whoops there goes like half the games ever made

[CStarFlare]

You forgot Moe.

You know, I briefly considered moe but decided it was less important since I hadn't heard the word at all until NIS used it in one of their newsletters (I no longer read NIS newsletters)

Though I regret that I neglected to mention kakkoi

[Ganelon]

Shit. Never thought I'd say that out loud.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure we're on the same page. It just seemed like a confusingly described spur-of-the-moment statement.

"Emotional atmosphere" has a lot more to do with art direction and music than with hokey plotlines and shite characters, to be fair...

Sounds like you're tempting me to write another rebuttal...

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

What we need is more stuff like God Hand and Chou Aniki (the gameplay could be a lot better, tho.) Stuff that have impact. Or like RE4 just so that people don't say I'm ghey.

[evil_ash_xero]

And I think Doom sucks.

oh yeah, I went there. lol

But hey, maybe I was just talking about the movie!

...well, maybe not.


Well, obviously there's numerous Western game fans here. Which is cool. But for me, other than the GOW series, all the games i've just went nuts over in the last few years have been Jap.

Dragon Quest VIII
Disgaeas
Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2
Okami
Gunstar Super Heroes and Astro Boy
Metroid Zero Mission
Devil May Cry-s
Metal Gear Solids
Ace Combat V and VI
Soul Calibur IV
Ikaruga and Rez HD
Gradius V
Panzer Dragoon Orta
RE 4

But on a positive East meets West note, Bionic Commando Rearmed got a 9.4 on IGN and they proclaim it to be the best game on PSN network. Can't wait.

I've never even played Bionic Commando for more than 5 minutes when I was a kid.



s/m

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I LOOOOOVE the Ace Combat series.

[evil_ash_xero]

I LOOOOOVE the Ace Combat series.

They could stand to change a little more from game to game(they did some interesting things with VI I thought), and the stories are a bit melodramatic, but they are the premier games of their type. I think V and VI have been the best. I'd have to go with V a little more than VI, but VI's graphics are wonderful, and the game has some interesting new things in it that made it seemed fresher to me.

s/m

[Zebra Airforce]

But on a positive East meets West note, Bionic Commando Rearmed got a 9.4 on IGN and they proclaim it to be the best game on PSN network.

Is this supposed to hold some sort of value?

Western games are amazing. We make the best rougelikes.

[trivial]

Much prefer European driving games to the Japanese ones. I guess I would agree with the OP only about puzzlers.

[Nuke]

I guess I would agree with the OP only about puzzlers.

But the genre would arguably not exist or be as rich as it is if it weren't for us and european input, especially in it's heyday.
Classics like Tetris, Columns, Klax, Q*bert, Boulder Dash, Pipe Mania, Lemmings, The Incredible Machine, Snake, Deadly Rooms of Death, The Lost Vikings, Gobliiins, Repton, Oddworld, Kye, Oxyd , Marble Madness, Minesweeper, Bridge Builder and Wetrix for example were all made by western developers and it would be a bit premature to dismiss them.
And with modern and upcoming classics such as Portal, Mercury, Elefunk and World of Goo the genre is far from dead, in fact it hasn't been as lively in years (one of the merits of downloadable content and the focus on independent development it brings).

[Klatrymadon]

Sounds like you're tempting me to write another rebuttal...

Sure, why not? The place might not be known for its constructive, friendly discussions, but one of those wouldn't kill it...

[trivial]

I was actually going to mention Oxyd and a few others as counterexamples to my own thesis. But I see things not to like in most Western puzzlers. Hitboxes that haven't been fully optimized, awkward animations, ugly pixel-painting.

[PROMETHEUS]

Western games have a different kind of depth - less strategic and more sensory.

uh very disagreed. Funny cause I would have said the opposite actually ^^ I can't think of Japanese games emphasizing on strategy or tactics as much as the most strategy / tactics focused western games (RTS and FPS).

[Lordstar]

I LOOOOOVE the Ace Combat series.

somehting about that game is just fantastic. depth is great without it bieng MS flight sim type game.

[neorichieb1971]

God Of War, Wipeout, Prince of Persia and Rayman are just 4 franchises that I like from the Western world.

Most Western games have very complex controls, especially FPS. Its almost as if every button has to be used. Turok on N64 used about 5 buttons and did the same thing.

[moozooh]

Most Western games have very complex controls, especially FPS. Its almost as if every button has to be used. Turok on N64 used about 5 buttons and did the same thing.

Yes, and controlled like shit. :)

The reason you have all the input and output devices in, say, your car isn't to make driving it harder. In fact, it becomes natural when you have gained initial experience. It's to make sure you're in control of your car.

FPS games with a high degree of freedom (we've come a long way since Doom, indeed), however, aren't much different. In fact, for a decent level of play, you need only a basic wheel mouse for aiming and firing, four buttons for directional movement, and a button for jumping. All of these don't even require moving your fingers from one key to another. It's not any more complex than Turok, but it's way more efficient.

[D]

Offcourse we are talking about the 5% of games that even matter. For all I care Japan could release 1 billion versions of barbie, the real doll. It's not about percentages. It's about games you'd want/should to play/buy.

OK, quiz time.
name the last decent non-Japanese 3D shmup.
name the last decent non-Japanese 2D shmup.
name the last non-Japanese fighting 3D game.
name the last non-Japanese fighting 2D game.
name the last decent non-Japanese 3D fighting game.
name the last decent non-Japanese 2D fighting game.
name the last decent non-Japanese racing game for ps3/ps2/ps1.
name the last decent non-Japanese 3D arcade game.
name the last decent non-Japanese 2D arcade game.

[jpj]

regarding the racers, the UK have some decent studios

sega rally, project gotham, etc

[neorichieb1971]

Most Western games have very complex controls, especially FPS. Its almost as if every button has to be used. Turok on N64 used about 5 buttons and did the same thing.

Yes, and controlled like shit.

The reason you have all the input and output devices in, say, your car isn't to make driving it harder. In fact, it becomes natural when you have gained initial experience. It's to make sure you're in control of your car.

FPS games with a high degree of freedom (we've come a long way since Doom, indeed), however, aren't much different. In fact, for a decent level of play, you need only a basic wheel mouse for aiming and firing, four buttons for directional movement, and a button for jumping. All of these don't even require moving your fingers from one key to another. It's not any more complex than Turok, but it's way more efficient.

Its not just FPS though. Take the early western arcade games, all of them used a specialized controller almost. All the conversions played like crap, even simple games like Centipede.

As for FPS games that I've played on PS2, all of them played like crap because the controller itself is not that great for it. Turok 1 (n64) is the only Turok I liked. Unfortunately for me I got used to that control scheme and every game after it reversed the Turok style making it hard for me to adapt. I personally hate the twin stick style and have never adapted to it so any FPS game using it loses one sale from me.

[moozooh]

Well, it's safe to say FPS games as a whole weren't meant for console controllers; any setup involving a mouse outperforms them by several orders of magnitude. I still don't understand how the players cope with all the inconveniences; even Metroid Prime 3 with its wiggle-waggle-mote doesn't come close. :(

[Acid King]

It's not about percentages. It's about games you'd want/should to play/buy.

Right, which is why it's bullshit to say that Westerners don't make good games. They just don't make games in the genres you're interested in.

OK, quiz time.

I could produce a similar list of genres to point out all the weaknesses of japanese developers. Unless they're genres you care about, it doesn't mean dick though. And for the record, Rallisport Challenge 2 is the best driving/racing game produced since in the last few generations. There's no japanese competition for that.

Well, obviously there's numerous Western game fans here. Which is cool. But for me, other than the GOW series, all the games i've just went nuts over in the last few years have been Jap.

When you say shit like "I lose interest in a game if I see it's not made in Japan", it's fairly obvious that you prejudge the games before you play them. You have a negative attitude about the game before you play them, of course that's going to affect how you feel about the games.