6th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:06 am

Why did shoe-sama spam all over the voting thread? Let's show some respect for a venerable tradition.

I like how Dragon Blaze has been getting a lot of votes. I doubt it will make the top 25, but it's still nice to see.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:32 am

Why did shoe-sama spam all over the voting thread? Let's show some respect for a venerable tradition.

Respect.

Unfortunately it doesn't to mean much around here. May it be for traditions, other people's opînions or others.

on topic: From what it looks like its gotta be pretty much the same thing as last year. maybe Psikyo games will rate a bit higher and Takumi games a bit lower.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:54 am

lolwhat fraction abuse

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:04 am

Wait a minute -- we can vote for Outzone? If so, I may have to amend my list.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:45 am

Shoe just seems to get off on acting like a douche. Every internet forum has at least one person like this, just be glad we don't have as many as most others do.

I generally just ignore him. 49% of his posts come accross as flame-bait, another 49% are complete random nonsense, and the last 2% is actual honest to god non-drivel. Though, it's been a while since I've seen that 2%.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:26 am

Turrican wrote:d'oh, so we're voting this year too. I'll send you a jpg summary table if you want it for the first post, Schatten.

That'd be quite awesome.

jp · Post by jp » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:51 am

nimitz wrote: on topic: From what it looks like its gotta be pretty much the same thing as last year.

That would suck.

These lists need more Genesis/PC-Engine love. And for the love of God less manics.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:58 am

I voted for Super Star Soldier ^_^

jp · Post by jp » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:33 am

Me too.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:42 am

I was being kind of facetious. It's the only Turbo Duo title I voted for, I didn't vote for ANY Genesis games, and my list is filled nearly to the brim with manics =P

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:46 am

lol voting system is misleading if calculations are done on %age basis
Just tell people to assign %ages if you're going to take 20 point DP 5 point RSG turns into 80% DP 20% RSG like Rob said in some post on the first page

On the other hand, if it's just addition based then you shouldn't write that 25 points all and 1 point all are the same thing because they're not.

also 25 games = asking people to choose games that they don't like

jp · Post by jp » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:50 am

shoe-sama wrote:
also 25 games = asking people to choose games that they don't like

I'm a fan of every single game on my list. *shrugs*

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:52 am

I like all the games on my list and then some. They're all games I whip out at least a couple times a year.

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:40 am

Ceph wrote:To vote, you should know Nexzr.

BTW, votes for Nexzr and Summer Carnival '93 should be considered the same.

Oh well! Maybe next time...

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:45 am

shoe-sama wrote:lol voting system is misleading if calculations are done on %age basis
Just tell people to assign %ages if you're going to take 20 point DP 5 point RSG turns into 80% DP 20% RSG like Rob said in some post on the first page

I fail to see how that's misleading. And why do you think percentages would be better?
If you really want, you can use percentages and turn them into points before posting, though. It doesn't matter how you come up with your scores as long as they are given in the correct format.

shoe-sama wrote:On the other hand, if it's just addition based then you shouldn't write that 25 points all and 1 point all are the same thing because they're not.

You answered your own question. It's the same, because the system is not addition based. That's why the example in the first post is there: to clarify exactly that.

shoe-sama wrote:also 25 games = asking people to choose games that they don't like

Nonsense. Most people will have a hard time limiting themselves to 25 games. As said in the rules of the voting thread: If you can't come up with 25 games you like, probably you shouldn't vote.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:00 am

shoe-sama wrote:lol voting system is misleading if calculations are done on %age basis

Just tell people to assign %ages

It's simpler to assign points (and change point values). The only thing you have to think about is picking a number between 25 and 1.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:11 am

Wait a minute -- we can vote for Outzone? If so, I may have to amend my list.

No, we're still punishing designers for coming up with their own movement and scroll systems.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:13 am

The first thing shoe would do if we changed to a % system would be to assign more than 100% to the games in his list, I bet.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:53 pm

also 25 games = asking people to choose games that they don't like

I think people who are voting in the top 25 should be able to come up with at least 50 games they really like. If not they should abstain and go play some great shmups they did not play yet.

We got 974 shmups reviews in the shmup.com(french site) database, and still many are missing. Can't come up with 25 out of 1000??....come on!

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:14 pm

PlasmaBlooD wrote:[1] [In the Hunt]

BORDERLINER ALERT_

PlasmaBlooD doesn't get it.
In the Hunt w/ conventional scroll: shooting game
In the Hunt w/o conventional scroll: bemani wrestling game

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:29 pm

nimitz wrote:
also 25 games = asking people to choose games that they don't like
I think people who are voting in the top 25 should be able to come up with at least 50 games they really like. If not they should abstain and go play some great shmups they did not play yet.

We got 974 shmups reviews in the shmup.com(french site) database, and still many are missing. Can't come up with 25 out of 1000??....come on!

To be honest I dislike most STGs but still think I know enough of them to be able to come up with a list of the ones I find superior to the others. Which means making up a list of 25 games STGs definitely forces me to put games I hate in it.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:45 pm

if you like DDP enough to clear both loops. You definitely have the potential to love dozens of shmups, I think you havn't played enough of them seriously yet. maybe in a few years.

Or maybe its the magical interest about Cave games. But can we call someone who only plays stuff from Cave a shmup enthusiast?

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:55 pm

You could probably say I'm not a shmup enthousiast ^^

I think Cave and Treasure games are just superior, Cave having an edge over Treasure on gameplay that takes a lot of skill, Treasure having an edge over Cave in artistic design, but both being uniquely interesting in both fields.

mikwuyma · Post by **mikwuyma** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:07 pm

Enhasa wrote:Cute em up talk from last year:

CIT wrote:Re: Cute 'Em Up Affirmative Action

We should vote for Twinkle Star Sprites. But not because it's a cute 'em up, but because it has one of the most unique and fun gameplay innovations in a shooter, ever.
This is a fabulous idea! Fans of cute em ups (cups?), PVP, and "cats in shmup" unite!

Seconded, TSS has one of the best innovations in shmups that has rarely been reproduced, a versus mode. If you give the versus mode a chance with a friend, I guarantee you will have fun.

Also, for people who like those manic shooters, this is how manic Twinkle Star Sprites can get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-G7wMMYxNI&l
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T2ujL9kluk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA-qW2B8mJM

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:11 pm

JoshF wrote:
PlasmaBlooD wrote:[1] [In the Hunt]
BORDERLINER ALERT_

PlasmaBlooD doesn't get it.
In the Hunt w/ conventional scroll: shooting game
In the Hunt w/o conventional scroll: bemani wrestling game

There was talk among the mods about banning In the Hunt from the list of eligible games, but we couldn't come to a final conclusion and so it just grandfathered its way in. This might change in future votings, but it stays eligible ...for now.

Note that this is a rare and special case. All other borderliners stay the hell out. (No need for sparking the old shmups definition routine again. Please put down those advanced tables of chemistry.)

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:15 pm

nimitz wrote:
We got 974 shmups reviews in the shmup.com(french site) database, and still many are missing. Can't come up with 25 out of 1000??....come on!

and how many of those games are utterly worthless?

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:53 pm

henry dark wrote:
nimitz wrote:
We got 974 shmups reviews in the shmup.com(french site) database, and still many are missing. Can't come up with 25 out of 1000??....come on!
and how many of those games are utterly worthless?

Quite, like anything from books to paintings, most are god awful.

On the 'knowing enough shmups to vote topic', I certainly know 50 (God, I own far far more than that not counting any MAME/homebrew, but just physical copies), but quantifying how intimately you know them all is the hard part...

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:31 pm

and how many of those games are utterly worthless?

Well, 85 shmups are rated 3/10 or less by their reviewers in the database. and to give you an idea of how harsh the critics are. Shmups like Insector X, Gun & Frontier, Super R-type (snes), Phoenix, Space Invaders DX, Fire Shark (genesis port) are in these 85 worst.

Herr Schatten wrote:Note that this is a rare and special case. All other borderliners stay the hell out.

Is Outzone borderline?

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:39 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:
shoe-sama wrote:also 25 games = asking people to choose games that they don't like
Nonsense. Most people will have a hard time limiting themselves to 25 games. As said in the rules of the voting thread: If you can't come up with 25 games you like, probably you shouldn't vote.

+1. When I was compiling my list a few weeks back, there were still games around about the 50 mark that I love, and should have got some votre loving. I think if you have a hard time thinking of 25 shooters you love, then it'd be best to wait until next year.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:49 pm

I think if you have a hard time thinking of 25 shooters you love, then it'd be best to wait until next year.

Generally, aren't the pickiest people going to have the most well defined decisions? I only like about 7 shooters, but I know why I like them. Asking me to vote for 25 is going to get you a list full of throwaway joke games.