Discuss my unmade game and stuff...seems fun...

[Motorherp]

If you're thinking of going down the c++ path you might want to have a look at this thread over at shmup-dev. A word of warning though, c++ is just a base programming language, not a game development kit. To eventualy make games with it you'll also have to learn how to use other libraries such as those for graphics, sound, input, etc. You'll also have to do much of the ground work yourself. Therefore, although this route will give you the most flexibility and best performance in the long term, it is a long long path to take and thus not something I'd recommend for your very first project. Instead you might want to consider looking at GameMaker or Torque2D which are game developement environments and tool kits which will take much of the load of your shoulders and make your first project go much smoother.

[Hulkcore]

I need a decent hobby anyway. I've been messing around in gamemaker a bit, and it will prove to be a useful distraction. But if in the long run I'm going to want the real deal, I might as well just get to it. Also, I don't know that this game is even possible to make in GM. Perhaps I'll take a look at Torque2d and see what I think of it. But, the books are on the way, so looks like I'm committed....

[Motorherp]

Well if you think you have what it takes to stick with it then I wish you the best of luck. Just keep in mind that for a long time you will see little to no return on your investment in the form of anything which even remotely resembles a game. Try not to get too discouraged and you'll get there eventualy. If you ever have any programming questions to ask you're always welcome to nip over to shmup-dev and post your queries.

[Shion]

I need a decent hobby anyway. I've been messing around in gamemaker a bit, and it will prove to be a useful distraction. But if in the long run I'm going to want the real deal, I might as well just get to it. Also, I don't know that this game is even possible to make in GM. Perhaps I'll take a look at Torque2d and see what I think of it. But, the books are on the way, so looks like I'm committed....

You can make virtually anything with GM these days. And in case it's something GM can't, you can always write a DLL to use with it, and it will still work
Anyway, learning C++ is a useful way of spending your time, even if you never manage to finish your game. It's definitely better for managing memory usage than GM.

[Hulkcore]

I'll keep messing around in GM because it will satisfy the desire to see something workable with little time investment, but I'm one of those people where simplified things eventually just piss me off because I want to know what's going on behind the curtain that I'm being kept from learning in the name of simplicity. So yeah...

Any thoughts on using the mouse?

[worstplayer]

Any thoughts on using the mouse?

Idea itself isn't bad, but it would be also nice to have alternate control schemes (dual stick, Warning Forever-like "turn" key).

And don't over-emphasize the aiming. Remember it's supposed to be a shmup, not a lightgun shooter

[Hulkcore]

Yeah, if I were actually to implement it (which I think I will) it would be configurable and all.

In the game this thread is about it would be used to control psychic attacks and/or hang gun attacks. The bikes only shoot forward so if you only use vehicle attacks you wouldn't use the mouse at all. Or if you don't use the vehicle attacks at all, I would have an option to neglect the mouse altogether if that's what you want. I don't know if that would be over emphasizing to you or not, but it isn't to me.

[Motorherp]

Hey there, sorry I've not posted posted in a while I've been a bit pre-ocupied with real life. How is the project going? Are you making progress or need any help?

[Hulkcore]

Currently, the end of the semester is this week and I've got no time for pretty much anything. I've been messing around with Game Maker though and started reading Who's Afraid of C++. I've been making a simpler idea that I had in GameMaker and that has been going well for the most part. I need to spend a lot of time on some artwork for it though as I am attempting to do handmade colored pencil scans for all the sprites with mixed results so far. Anyhoo, once I'm through the next week or so I'll have some more free time to mess around/read. Thanks for asking.

[-Bridget-]

I need a decent hobby anyway. I've been messing around in gamemaker a bit, and it will prove to be a useful distraction. But if in the long run I'm going to want the real deal, I might as well just get to it. Also, I don't know that this game is even possible to make in GM. Perhaps I'll take a look at Torque2d and see what I think of it. But, the books are on the way, so looks like I'm committed....

You'd be surprised at exactly what is possible with GM.


I, personally, wouldnt want to waste a gazillion hours trying to code something like that (or the one I myself am making) in C++ or whatever, when there's GM available to take alot of the ARGH out of it.

I always wonder how those on the shmup-dev site can have the undying patience to do it that other way, lol.



As for what you've described,

I'm afraid I have to echo the complaints about the "you WILL take damage" bit.

Even something totally nutty like Mushihime-sama on Ultra isnt designed with that intact.

Granted, with that game, I can in fact say "yeah, you definitely will get hit a buncha times if you play this" to most players, but the simple fact is, with enough skill, it IS technically possible to beat every single section of that game WITHOUT getting hit OR bombing.



The basic idea you've put forth sounds interesting in it's own right, BUT, it's one that would be veeeeeeeery hard for you to do PROPERLY, particularly if you've not done something like this before.

Balance is a very important thing in many games, and usually, it's also the hardest thing to do CORRECTLY.


Perhaps start with something a bit easier? If you dont have experience doing this, you might find that that's the best idea. It's a good way to learn, I say.


And also, mess around with GM and learn what it's capable of. Just be aware that the "demo" version will be missing a buncha useful features (if that's what you're using).

[Hulkcore]

So, I guess I'll update on this and ask a few questions.

I've been making this in GM. I've gotten a lot of work done on the basic engine, still working on the RPG aspects and implementing all of the different skills/stats that I have planned. I'm confident that I will be able to figure out everything that I want to accomplish withing GM. So there's that.

I do however really need artists. So, if anyone is interested in doing either ingame sprites, levels, menus, character art for cut-scenes, or any combinations thereof, I'm definitely interested in having you help. I can do art, but it will suck.

The final thing is a question for discussion, I thought about making a new thread so more people see, but I'll just post it here.

Basically it involves story-telling in shmups. This shmup is an RPG, so it will have a deep story with (hopefully) compelling characters and conflicts, etc... My main question is, apart from an option to totally shut this off and just play (which I will include), what in you guys/gals opinions is the best way to do storytelling?

ToHo style portraits with dialog during parts of levels, dedicated out of level cutscenes, or something else that I haven't thought of?

EDIT: PS, I mean presentation, not content or style when I say ToHo. I won't be having hentai girls (or anime for that matter) in my game.

[monkeyman]

Dear god DON'T interrupt the actual game play with in game storytelling (ie pausing mid level to throw up some portraits and text etc). Inter-level cutscenes is fine, and if you can tell some story with in-game events (without taking control away from the player) then I guess that would work.

Just my opinion of course!!

[Hulkcore]

If I did ingame portrait style it would generally be at the beginning and/or end of a level, not midway or anything. This would probably be the easiest to do as it requires a little less artwork. I'll probably end up doing a mix of the two, but I'll probably end up never finishing this.

[Drakon]

rename the thread to "I'm looking for someone to make the game for me but I'll take all the credit yeah!"

[Ed Oscuro]

The sad part is I saw the thread title, the number of replies, and knew exactly what I'd find inside

although the action / RPG confusion always brightens my day a little Was that ever on the road to being fixed or what

[Shatterhand]

I'll give my 0.02 cents.

First, learn to code. No one is going to make it for you unless you pay people to do it. You could assemble a team with people doing graphics, music and stuff, but you WILL need to code, or else you may forget about it. If you don't know how to code, learn it. Gamemaker is a good tool to get you going, you can learn it quite fast and can make games with it quite fast too. And yes, it WILL take time. And when I say "time" its not like 6 weeks.... more like 6 years or something. Do you *REALLY* want to see your game happening? You will need a LOT of preserverance and patience to do it...

I've been doing games for a hobby for a long time, and I know what I'm talking about

Second... your idea will simply not work. It looks great on paper, but it won't work. RPG players will complain that the shmup sections gets into the Role Playing and that they would prefer a more strategic battle system , and that the RPG part is under-developed. Shmup players will complain that the shmup part is badly designed and the RPG part gets into the action - But they won't even care, as the shmup sections won't be very good, from what you are writing. It is looking Sol Divide mixed with Tyrian mixed with Sigma Star Saga ... and none of them are exactly good examples of shmups.

People have tried mixing shmups with RPGs before, and it never worked. And I mean big teams made of professional people being paid to do a good work, not a single guy still learning how to code. Both genres are too far apart from each other to be mixed in a sucessful way.

And I mean no personal offense to you, I have once before worked with an "original concept" for a while ( a couple of months actually) and then see that the concept simply didn't work (It ended up being a very boring game), and scratch 2 months of work is really annoying.

(Even worse is working on a game for like 4 years, something I am doing now, and still don't see the end of the work getting any near.... heh )

[pixelcorps]

i suggest if you havent done anything like this before, just try making a basic balls out shooter before you try and innovate.

it takes skill and pre planning to make a good game period, it may be a good idea not to bite of more than you can chew by melding genres that don't necessarily mix.

[Hulkcore]

To the last 4 posters:

Way to join the topic 6 months too late and not add anything that has already been said.
The fact is this: the game is being made, by me, in GM.
I don't care if you don't like my concept, I'm going to make it anyway.
I don't need people to tell me what I can't do, I need people to help me with what I AM DOING.

As I've said in my last few posts, I'm looking for artists. If someone with a lot more knowledge in GM or GML wants to help out, that's great. They're welcome to join. Right now I've got some ripped sprites that I'm working with, but I will obviously need a lot of art eventually.

To Shatterhand in specific: First, you really haven't said anything new in your first paragraph, but I will use your second paragraph to address something that needs to be said to everyone that has posted in this thread. I really don't care what RPG players or Shmup players in specific think about this game. I'm not making it for anyone other than myself, and I play both.

I've played this game in my mind for the past 4 years and it's great. So I don't care if you think that it won't work. As a shmup player, all I'm asking of you is help me make the shmup part great. If you're an artist or someone good with GML, than I'm asking if you want to help.

Finally, I fully expect to spend a couple hours a week or so on this for the next ten years and never show it to anyone. I'm fine with that. If I get half done by then I'll be pleased. Maybe by then I'll have enough money to spend on some good art. Whatever.

And I still only have one opinion about the question I asked a while ago about story. Would like more input on this, as long as it's not "You can't put a story in a Shmup, the shmup players will think it's too RPGish!!"

[Hulkcore]

Double Post WARNING:

Also, the name of this game has officially been changed to "Street Named Hell" so the name from earlier posts can be ignored.

[worstplayer]

GML: If I could learn it, you can too. If you need some help just post here, lot of people know GML and can help you with things. Just don't expect someone to program whole game for you.

Artwork: Just draw some primitive shapes of your objects (ABA style ) and use them as placeholders. When your game becomes at least partially playable, you can start worrying about gfx.

Shmup/rpg mixing: Unlike others, I don't think it's inherently bad (I like Jets'n'guns). It's just that it'll be bitch to balance and you'll have to sacrifice parts of both concepts to make them work together.
But hey, do it however you want, if it works, fine. If it doesn't, you can just change it

[Shatterhand]

First, you really haven't said anything new in your first paragraph, but I will use your second paragraph to address something that needs to be said to everyone that has posted in this thread. I really don't care what RPG players or Shmup players in specific think about this game. I'm not making it for anyone other than myself, and I play both.

I've played this game in my mind for the past 4 years and it's great. So I don't care if you think that it won't work. As a shmup player, all I'm asking of you is help me make the shmup part great. If you're an artist or someone good with GML, than I'm asking if you want to help.

Finally, I fully expect to spend a couple hours a week or so on this for the next ten years and never show it to anyone. I'm fine with that. If I get half done by then I'll be pleased. Maybe by then I'll have enough money to spend on some good art. Whatever.

If you have all this so clear to you, then go ahead an do it. I am not going to code for you (Heck, I am already busy with my own projects), but any help you may need with GM I'll be glad to help (Just post it here). I actually am glad you actually begun learning coding to do your project

And whenever you have a demo, beta or something, post it here so we can test it and "help you make the shmup part great".

[Hulkcore]

Worstplayer: Yeah, right now I've got bastard artwork stolen from a few cave shmups and others that I'm working with. And the Thundercade main character for the player. Haha...Thundercade...

Shatterhand: When I have questions in the future I'll post here. I've been rather busy with school stuff as of late and haven't had too much time to work on this. I usually just ask for help on the GM forums, but I suppose people here have done a lot with shmups in GM.

[Shatterhand]

The GM forums is a pretty good place to look for help too, if you can bypass the huge amount of little kids there

[Hulkcore]

I guess I'll post an update of sorts. I pretty much started things over a bit as I was getting a little sloppy with my old gmk file. This should give you more reason to hate my game.

So far I've got:
Player movement (duh...)
Mouse targeting system with lockable crosshair.
Exp/lvling (less exp from lower lvl enemies as you get higher, etc...)
Physical bullets (as in those fired from pistols/shotguns/etc)*
Chance to hit/be hit Attack rating for physical bullets**
C4 skill
Beam skill

*These look/operate similar to the machine gun weapon in Raptor, though they will have a limited range depending on what weapon is firing them, and they have a random margin of error from firing straight at the crosshair.

**Chance to hit/be hit is currently based on (i.e. is exactly the same as) the Diablo 2 formula, which may or may not change, the formula is as follows...Generally speaking, it pays to be a higher level than what you are attacking or what is attacking you. When maps and such are done the goal will be to balance it so that you will never be +/- 2 levels from any enemies if you progress through the game without replaying an area.

Code: Select all

100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
AR = Attack Rating; alvl = Level of Attacker; dlvl = Level of Defender; DR = Defense Rating

Note: Attacks will never have less than 5% chance to hit nor more than 95% chance to hit

[jonny5]

ok.....i just read this whole thread (dont ask me why) and i have just a few things to say...please dont take them as personal attacks but i think it has to be said, and honestly im kinda surprised nobody else has mentioned it...

put very bluntly....

you have been going on about how you are doing something groundbreaking and new, but from your descriptions and what directions you want to take the game you are basically taking elements you enjoyed in your favorite games and trying to mash them into one game....

especially after reading your 'walkthrough' of the first level i had to shake my head....you basically described a scene from 'the road warrior', right down to the boss on the 'tri-hovercycle'

you seem to be melding a bunch of ideas, from gameplay to story line, that have already been done, into a bastardized game that is so overly complicated as to turn off fans of all the genres you are trying to meld

and in all your speaking of the game you seem to have very little shmup elements aside from the fact that you 'dodge' sometimes....

personally i think using a mouse in a shmup is retarded.....

and you seem to be coming at this whole project from the view and mindset of a PC gamer, where as shmups at the core are built up from arcade....a lot of your ideas seem very foreign to the genre....

just my 2 cents...i jus spent 20 mins reading all this so i had to say something

and like i said, dont take offense...just voicing an opinion

[Hulkcore]

So, first off, I really need to update the original post because the story line has gone through a complete change as has some of the gameplay stuff. Currently the mouse thing is set up so that you can lock the crosshair in any position if you so desire. I may be discarding the mouse altogether if I can manage a control scheme that makes sense. Also, any resemblance to Road Warrior is completely coincidental, I've never seen the film.

As far as being an amalgamation of different games. This is simply the nature of inspiration, whether it be games, music, film, art. Take any creative genius and he will undoubtedly tell you all about someone before him whose work he sought to emulate. I mean you can basically name any film, song, game, story, etc... and trace its roots to something(s) else.

And yes, I'm approaching shmups as more of a PC gamer than an arcade gamer. I don't view shmups as arcade exclusive. I think there are things that are great about other genres that could be used well in a shmup. Perhaps no one in the shmup community will like it. That's fine with me, as I've said before I'm mostly making this game for myself because I want to play it.

and how exactly does "a lot of your ideas seem very foreign to the genre" equate to nothing new?

[Gungriffon Geona]

and how exactly does "a lot of your ideas seem very foreign to the genre" equate to nothing new?

he meant "an amalgamation of other people's stuff thrown together into a genre that doesn't really need such things" something like that I guess.

[jonny5]

and how exactly does "a lot of your ideas seem very foreign to the genre" equate to nothing new?

he meant "an amalgamation of other people's stuff thrown together into a genre that doesn't really need such things" something like that I guess.

exactly.....a lot of the ideas contradict the base idea that make shmups what they are...

[Hulkcore]

It has nothing to do with shmups as a genre, it has to do with games made for arcade and games made for other platforms. Shmups aren't arcade games by definition, but most of them are. You people want all games to be based on getting a highscore and playing through in 30 minutes or less. Those are arcade conventions, not shmup conventions. There's nothing about a 2D game, that scrolls, in which you shoot stuff, that means you can't tell a decent story with it or have an identifiable main character. There's nothing about shmups, by simplest definitions that makes them incompatible with RPG elements or anything that I've put forth.

You could certainly argue, (when it's done) that it worked or it didn't work for you, but making asinine statements like "stuff thrown into a genre that doesn't really need such things " is fucking stupid. No genres "need" anything. Genres are generally stupid shit made up in retrospect to classify similar things. And again, "an amalgamation of other people's stuff" is the nature of creativity and inspiration. Name anything, literally any single invention, piece of art, music, film, game, anything made by humans, and it's an "amalgamation of other people's stuff."

[Gungriffon Geona]

I like how you're defending yourself with the regal yet misplaced atentiveness of a misty-eyed 14 year old screaming that he'll be a great writer/manga artist one day and made an entire story in a week in your head you swear you did just ask your friend.

The fact is, it takes an attention to detail and understanding not only what you want, but what other people want. Some things simply don't work in this genre, and when added tend to leave a sour taste in the mouth of the players. You've pretty much compiled a list of those things that leave people going "huuuuuuuuuuuuuh wtf". As much as you are looking for "innovation", it's about like sticking a trading card system into a car racing game. Or adding 4 basically the same rocket launchers to an FPS, with only a cosmetic change to make it different. It's sorta new, but doesn't necessarily mean anyone likes it.
And since you care so much about the fact that everything is made from everyone else's stuff, (boy that part was funny.) let's list the things wrong with this argument. The point is this is true, but you aren't even trying to make the ideas here seem unique. they are very abruptly lifted from something else and tacked on. You are very defensive when confronted about that fact. Honestly, that's a bad start from the get-go. You should learn to deal with this sort of thing with a calm mind. Moreover, don't see it as an attack, but more as a way to learn from what could be changed to develop the game design further.

But I'm sure this will be met with more misty-eyed fun times and a comment about this being TL;DR.
So short answer, quit being so high and mighty and learn to accept critique from those who are the actual target audience.