Actual hidden gems.

[Rob]

Personally, I would call Strike Gunner STG for this, but that all depends on which version of the game you play.
The SNES version was quite an excellently designed game,

[Gungriffon Geona]

Personally, I would call Strike Gunner STG for this, but that all depends on which version of the game you play.
The SNES version was quite an excellently designed game,

Well in my opinion it was. I've had loads of fun with it over the years.

Gungriffon Geona? Nice to see a familiar "face"... unless you just happen to be sharing the same name as someone on OCR.

The one and the same.

[Edge]

This discussion thread is a good idea.
As I can see not only the reasons people want to play certain games, but also see what they dislike.

Good choices where already recommended here, some other ideas for this week would be Alpha Mission 2, Xexex

And Doujin games would fit very well too, but it had to be freeware that everyone can access it: Only game that comes to mind is Warning Forever. Other good freeware shmups?

[BulletMagnet]

And Doujin games would fit very well too, but it had to be freeware that everyone can access it: Only game that comes to mind is Warning Forever. Other good freeware shmups?

Plenty of good ones out there, though one would have to sort through the hordes of demos to find full games...also, some might debate whether stuff like Warning Forever or Cho Ren Sha is really "hidden."

[DJ Incompetent]

what about the Compile stuff? I don't see a mention of them very often.

A lil Space Megaforce or Guardian Legend?






Or we could go into left field...saaay....Super Spy Hunter or Captain Skyhawk?






Are there any AA portable console titles out there?

[Twiddle]

Alpha Mission 2, Xexex

You are not good at choosing games by random companies

PS you can vastly increase the quality of the "hidden gems" week by upgrading it to the "miscellaneous" week

[Gungriffon Geona]

And Doujin games would fit very well too, but it had to be freeware that everyone can access it: Only game that comes to mind is Warning Forever. Other good freeware shmups?

Plenty of good ones out there, though one would have to sort through the hordes of demos to find full games...also, some might debate whether stuff like Warning Forever or Cho Ren Sha is really "hidden."

Would G-Type count in this matter?

As for these, I like Genocide Circuit 2 despite the hentai backgrounds. (which there aren't many of in the game actually.) the enemy patterns are pretty solid, even though I find myself dying more than anything. (manic shooter if there ever was one.) And as a note, good luck finding it, it's kinda rare these days.
Galax is another game I like, and it doesn't seem to get much attention either.The "lock-on control" system is pretty unique, and I have loads of fun using it. being fast with the fingers to type in each code and not mess up also adds for an end of level bonus, so there's replay value. I also found the bosses to lots of fun to tear apart as well, being yet another "layer-fest bosses" game.
Cave Fish 1 and 2 are pretty fun, though they did get kinda old after the first few levels. (especially 2)

btw, Captain Skyhawk was probably my first venture into the shooter genre. I remember playing that over and over again when I was little.

[landshark]

Metal Slug 5. It has a shooter stage so it should count.

[Rob]

what about the Compile stuff? I don't see a mention of them very often.

Where did I go wrong?

[Neon]

If something is genuinely a gem, then what's the likelihood that it's hidden from us. Aren't we (not me in particular) the experts? If it's so great, surely we know about it.

True, true. This is what I said in some other thread a bit ago. There are no hidden gems, anything really good is known (and played, and talked about) by most people on these boards. In other words, the gems are not 'hidden'.

I've discovered lots of sweet puzzlers, platformers, and general odd stuff that's never ever talked about ever via Pa and Rando mostly.

Shmups it's just not the case sadly. All the good stuff is generally known, or most of it...what do you expect when the forum is shooter focused. One of the benefits of not being a general arcade forum I guess.

I tried to start a platformers thread in OT with screenshots and writeups for each game but nobody cared.

what about the Compile stuff? I don't see a mention of them very often.

Where did I go wrong?

They did have some sweet soundtracks. Zanac X Zanac's alone kinda justifies their existence. Otherwise I don't understand the praise...takes 'mindless fun' to new heights, I'd rather play world of warcraft

[Rob]

Space Megaforce is fine for nap-gaming, not for a scoring competition.

Twiddle, can controllers be used with Sispri Gauntlet?

[Gungriffon Geona]

what about the Compile stuff? I don't see a mention of them very often.

Where did I go wrong?

They did have some sweet soundtracks. Zanac X Zanac's alone kinda justifies their existence. Otherwise I don't understand the praise...takes 'mindless fun' to new heights, I'd rather play world of warcraft

The fact that most of their games (in my opinion) don't rely on using some boring and typical pattern is one of the major reasons I find their games fun. Zanac and Zanac Neo being case and point, both games being extremely hard, but fun nonetheless. why though?
It's because you can't expect what will happen next a good majority of the time. there are loose patterns to both, but alot of the game tends to boil down to one thing: your play style. in a sense, the games make it more challenging and fun for you as the player, and not be sadistically rigid like almost every other game in the genre is.

Twiddle, can controllers be used with Sispri Gauntlet?

I've been looking for that actually. whatever happened to it? I wouldn't mind playing it again.

[Twiddle]

Twiddle, can controllers be used with Sispri Gauntlet?

Yeah, they do work.

[Twiddle]

The fact that most of their games (in my opinion) don't rely on using some boring and typical pattern is one of the major reasons I find their games fun. Zanac and Zanac Neo being case and point, both games being extremely hard, but fun nonetheless. why though?
It's because you can't expect what will happen next a good majority of the time. there are loose patterns to both, but alot of the game tends to boil down to one thing: your play style. in a sense, the games make it more challenging and fun for you as the player, and not be sadistically rigid like almost every other game in the genre is.

You're confusing rigidness with challenge and attention demand here.

To show you an example:
R-Type series: rigid, as there's only one way to survive something most of the time.
Gradius series, barring III: not so rigid, as there's more than one way to get past something, but you do need to pay attention if you want to last more than a dozen minutes.

Most games are of the latter when it comes to survival, but when it comes to scoring, it can go either way (ie Mushihime-sama and Do Donpachi are very rigid and requires very rote memorization on how to score well, whereas games like Giga Wing and Mars Matrix allow you to be more creative with what to do for score)

Also, Sispri Gauntlet is very rigid if you actually want to get anywhere interesting in that game.

Compile games have a legacy of not having the player actually have to put forth much effort to survive. For example, I didn't even have to move for a good 2/3 of the time with a particular weapon and option configuration in MUSHA.

To your skill level, this might not be true, but after playing more of these games for a bit and getting better at them, it will be.

[Neon]

Space Megaforce is fine for nap-gaming, not for a scoring competition.

I don't think otherwise. Music only affects the scoring in DDR.

It's because you can't expect what will happen next a good majority of the time. there are loose patterns to both, but alot of the game tends to boil down to one thing: your play style. in a sense, the games make it more challenging and fun for you as the player, and not be sadistically rigid like almost every other game in the genre is.

You're still judging the enjoyment of a game on just reacting to whatever is happening on screen

[DJ Incompetent]

Space Megaforce is fine for nap-gaming, not for a scoring competition.

If you were playing for pure survival on Normal mode, yes. I could see where you're coming from. Somewhat.

Let me ask this another way. Do you feel if you knew instead you had to figure out a way to kill every single object on the screen at any given time to win this thing, would it still feel like nap-gaming? I feel like it would keep things pretty active for a game with what...12-14 stages? You can even adjust how you fire your 8 different weapons on the fly.

Another thing to consider is that difficulty adjustment in the options menu isn't the standard "easiest-to-hardest" They throw some curve-ball difficulty things like the Tricky and the Wild if I remember. Those two difficulties, while being at the polar opposites of the selection, were not necessarily the easiest nor the hardest as compared to Hard, Hyper and Easy, but changed the game more significantly. Given score is based off target-shooting. Well, if every target killed is arranged to launch a suicide bullet, that could kill yer nap-gaming theory right-quick. Would a week of devising a strategy to battle personal scoring greed vs. survival make for something unique enough? This is all provided we're willing to overlook our typical "play the game on all defaults" mantra.

And the game ain't even on the hi score forum!

If these points sparked any renewed interest, I could research it more.

[Nemo]

How about Eliminate Down and if not, then surely there's no need for a vote because BioMetal would have to be chosen.

[Rob]

Do you feel if you knew instead you had to figure out a way to kill every single object on the screen at any given time to win this thing, would it still feel like nap-gaming? I feel like it would keep things pretty active for a game with what...12-14 stages? You can even adjust how you fire your 8 different weapons on the fly.

-12-14 stages with lots of no challenge and empty space
-8 times as many weapons as necessary, it's overkill, especially if killing enemies is the goal
-Killing enemies is a very boring goal... I've just been playing score-based shooters seriously for a few years, but the greatest challenge would be staying interested.
-Compile games are notorious for the bulk of the score coming from the end of game bonus. I'm not sure about SM, but I doubt it's any different.

How about Eliminate Down and if not, then surely there's no need for a vote because BioMetal would have to be chosen.

troll

[mulletgeezer]

I don't think we're going to find many good jamma candidates. Of those mentioned so far i find that Dragon Breed and Xexex (jap version) have a pretty high Gemness:Unhiddeness ratio but neither are especially well hidden and i don't think Dragon Breed would make for a great contest. I guess for truly hidden games we'll have to consult our doujin experts, though none of the doujin shmups i've played struck me as being gems.

how about Cho Ren Sha? I'm not sure how hidden it is but i don't see it mentioned very often here and it's certainly a gem.

again i'd like to mention Iridis Alpha. Very hidden, it's Jeff Minter's most "serious" shmup and i find it to be a rather amazing game. It might go down quite badly with some players though.

[Frederik]

I second Omega Fighter. It`s hard to believe that a game that old has such an incredible scoring system. To score well you have to play like a suicidal maniac. I have the strong impression that Cave nicked that system for Ketsui. OF is most definitely a hidden gem, and not only a "pretty good unknown game" but a real GEM.

[Plasmo]

EARTH DEFENSE FORCE!
seriously, try it!

[professor ganson]

I doubt the argument that there are no hidden gems (or not many, at any rate) is going to change anything, so I'll put that aside. I recall some people thinking that Xevious 3D/G+ falls into this category. Probably not emulated, though.

EARTH DEFENSE FORCE!
seriously, try it!

This one is ported, isn't it? Can't remember atm.

[Shatterhand]

I am the biggest Compile fan around, and even I admit that Compile games arent good for score competitions, thanks to their ínsane end of level/end of game bonuses. And I would love to play Zanac, but I have to agree it isn't the best of options. Well, at least to finish it is easier than getting the Cleopatra Bonus



Creature Jungle 16 is a nice doujin shmup , with 5 levels and an interesting scoring system.

Cyberd is not as refined as Creature Jungle 16, but also has a very interesting score system.

19xx would be a good choice too. What about Varth ?

Taito has a fair amount of unknown shmups too, some of them are good games.

And Omega Fighter HAS to be in the poll. Seriously.

[Ghegs]

And Doujin games would fit very well too, but it had to be freeware that everyone can access it: Only game that comes to mind is Warning Forever. Other good freeware shmups?

Plenty of good ones out there, though one would have to sort through the hordes of demos to find full games...also, some might debate whether stuff like Warning Forever or Cho Ren Sha is really "hidden."

I actually thought about mentioning doujins before, and I have found some that I don't think have never been mentioned here. There are problems, though. The ones I know of are for Windows, which sucks for those using Linux or Macs or whatnot. Even with Windows one might have difficulties getting the games to run.

And lastly, I haven't played the games enough to know if they're good for scoring competitions. I know they have deep(ish) scoring systems, but I wouldn't know whether they're horribly broken in some way.

[Twiddle]

Space Megaforce is fine for nap-gaming, not for a scoring competition.

If you were playing for pure survival on Normal mode, yes. I could see where you're coming from. Somewhat.

Let me ask this another way. Do you feel if you knew instead you had to figure out a way to kill every single object on the screen at any given time to win this thing, would it still feel like nap-gaming? I feel like it would keep things pretty active for a game with what...12-14 stages? You can even adjust how you fire your 8 different weapons on the fly.

Another thing to consider is that difficulty adjustment in the options menu isn't the standard "easiest-to-hardest" They throw some curve-ball difficulty things like the Tricky and the Wild if I remember. Those two difficulties, while being at the polar opposites of the selection, were not necessarily the easiest nor the hardest as compared to Hard, Hyper and Easy, but changed the game more significantly. Given score is based off target-shooting. Well, if every target killed is arranged to launch a suicide bullet, that could kill yer nap-gaming theory right-quick. Would a week of devising a strategy to battle personal scoring greed vs. survival make for something unique enough? This is all provided we're willing to overlook our typical "play the game on all defaults" mantra.

And the game ain't even on the hi score forum!

If these points sparked any renewed interest, I could research it more.

wooooo 8 different weapons, only two of them worth using

wooooo 5 difficulty settings, only one of them that are of any difficulty

If the base game is incredibly easy (granted, not MUSHA easy, but still) you can bet that simple rank changes won't ever get around that.

Play Mahou Daisakusen. Same designer, good game.

[BulletMagnet]

I am the biggest Compile fan around, and even I admit that Compile games arent good for score competitions, thanks to their ínsane end of level/end of game bonuses.

Tell that to the Darius fans.

In any event, while I disagree with a lot of the trash-talking towards Space Megaforce, I'd have to agree that it's not a great choice for a score comp.

[Danny]

Boogie Wings - Killer Santa, Grappling Hooks, Pogo Sticks, what more could you possably want?

[Damocles]

I'm not even in the competition, but you guys should really check out Zunzunkyou No Yabou.

What did you expect from the eccentric shmupper?

Perhaps Desert War???

I don't believe I've ever heard these mentioned.

[Imhotep]

what about Black Heart? it works when playing for score.

[shiftace]

On the subject of doujin, I think Parsec47 and Nomltest would be reasonable for score competition, with Nomltest being more "hidden" and probably more interesting. Both are a little on the simple side, which may or may not be a good thing.

Parsec47: Simplified, randomized Dangun Feveron, basically. Killing enemies gives negligible points but produces lots of point items; point items are worth 10-1000, give +10 to item value, and missing one resets the value. Since there's up to 120 or so point items on screen, and item collection is by proximity, the chain builds really fast. The game throws extends at you every 30-45 seconds, but life stock is capped at 4. A run will almost certainly take under 30 minutes.

Nomltest: Eat bullets by holding them in your ship's aura for a second. Eat value ranges 10-500 by 10s; it gets +20 for destroying a formation, -20 for missing one, and a big penalty for dying. Enemies appear at random, but behavior follows a script; there tends to be less randomness and better balance than Parsec47 IMO. Extends are every 200k points, which works out to 1.5-2 minutes or so. Games lasting longer than 10 minutes are really rare. I think Nomltest has a wider risk/reward spectrum than Parsec47. In fact, it's HUGE, if you start to consider point-blanking.

Finally, I claim that I really do suggest these games because they're good score-based games, not because I have high positions in the HS forum. Besides, considering how the rest of the tournament has gone, I'd expect to fall pretty far if one got picked.