Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

[BIL]

^Shock Troopers may be simplistic, but who doesn't always love the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a good run n gun, the STRAFE.

Legit perfect game in my book - the balance of i-frames and accountability is on par with Natsume's Wild Guns and The Ninja Warriors Again, ie, GODLIKE/BUTTERY-SMOOTH. This really comes out when going for CQC kills on bosses for them nice drops.

[Stevens]

Not mentioned - dat drum n' bass is stage two.

Always found it odd Ralf and Clark weren't playable, seemed like a huge oversight.

Maybe SNK said no? Jackal got Clark's blue headband..

[BIL]

Quite the expertly-timed DnB when you hit the water after going off the cliff, post-miniboss (Jungle route). A classic "YOU are trapped in here with ME" setup too, with the troop encirclement you've got to shred your way free of.

My favourite is that insatiable droning roar that kicks in during the Jungle route's ruins, it makes me keep the screen scrolling even when I shouldn't.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

In multiplayer games, it's nice when there's a mode, even if it's a cheat, so that two players can use the same character if they want. You're able to use palette swaps instead of having to play separate characters, basically how Wild Guns Reloaded handles its multiplayer. Want a team of 4 weiner dogs? Go for it. It's not a big deal if all the characters play exactly the same and are purely cosmetically different, though.

It's also amusing when it shows up in RPGs, albeit decidedly rare outside of "create your own party" dungeon crawlers where you can use as little or as many of a class as you like. The only other games I can think of are Tales of Destiny R (PS2) and Tales of Graces, which have accessories that let you do exactly this, using any character's movelist no matter if they're in the party or not currently as a result of the plot.

One thing I'm not fond of is the trend that seems to have started or been popularized with Final Fantasy 7 where you have a large cast of characters that greatly exceeds the number of members you have in battle, yet one of those members can't be swapped out! Cloud is a mandatory member in FF7, Squall has to remain in the party in FF8, Dart can't be subbed out in Legend of Dragoon, Hilbert has to always be in the party for Last Scenario, and so on. Let me use a party that doesn't include the designated main character if I want to, damn it!

[Hornet]

Yeah, Shock Troopers is fantastic. I actually only played it last year for the first time and instantly fell in love with it. I'm pretty sure this is currently my favorite top-down Run n Gun game, dethroning KiKi KaiKai and Twinkle Tale. Not because it's necessarily better, but mostly because, mechanically, the combo of i-frame dodge rolls + strafing + Shinobi-style melee in close range combat hits all the right buttons for me.

To stay on topic, barring a shitty execution, I generally feel that i-frame dodging, parry + counter, wall-jumping, double jump, grappling hooks and downward melee attacks (especially when you can bounce off the enemy, a la Zelda II and Monster World IV, and "chain" your attacks, either by repeating the process or by slashing while still off the ground) are inherently awesome, extremely satisfying, mechanics. It would actually be kinda cool to have a game that tries to combine most of these mechanics while performing the, admittedly, gargantuan task of a) utilizing them consistently throughout the game and b) not being unbalanced. Maybe even a scoring system that rewards you for staying on the move, playing with style and successfully chaining the mechanics in various situations throughout the game.

This one can be tricky because, when things are not well-thought-out, you can easily end up with monstrosities (see traditional scrolling shooters that have inertia, most likely, only because...that's how things work in real life ). However, when implemented well, physics-based gameplay within an arcade framework and "ethos" can do wonders for a game. From action games, like Umihara Kawase and Sub-Terrania, to arcade racers like Wave Race 64 and WipEout, arcade-style physics-based gameplay can be immensely satisfying and rewarding to master.

[Searchlike]

However, when implemented well, physics-based gameplay within an arcade framework and "ethos" can do wonders for a game. From action games, like Umihara Kawase and Sub-Terrania, to arcade racers like Wave Race 64 and WipEout, arcade-style physics-based gameplay can be immensely satisfying and rewarding to master.

Yup, that's why Umihara Kawase Shun may become my favorite game ever and this one's not too far behind:



By the way, I just cleared that game's Expert mode for the first time. Check the [not shmup] thread for details.

[BIL]

Yeah, Shock Troopers is fantastic. I actually only played it last year for the first time and instantly fell in love with it. I'm pretty sure this is currently my favorite top-down Run n Gun game, dethroning KiKi KaiKai and Twinkle Tale. Not because it's necessarily better, but mostly because, mechanically, the combo of i-frame dodge rolls + strafing + Shinobi-style melee in close range combat hits all the right buttons for me.

My current topdown run/gun triple crown - they form a pretty nice scale of methodical defense (SFC Kiki) to nonstop aggressive shooting (TT), with ST roughly in the middle. ST is my favourite of the three too, overall - just so much quality, between its various routes and the Team Battle system, plus the ultra-smooth handling - but I'd be without none of them.

[Hornet]

Yup, that's why Umihara Kawase Shun may become my favorite game ever and this one's not too far behind:

By the way, I just cleared that game's Expert mode for the first time. Check the [not shmup] thread for details.

Oh yes, excellent example!

And congrats for 1CCing the Expert mode, I remember it requiring surgical precision and intense concentration to clear.

My current topdown run/gun triple crown - they form a pretty nice scale of methodical defense (SFC Kiki) to nonstop aggressive shooting (TT), with ST roughly in the middle. ST is my favourite of the three too, overall - just so much quality, between its various routes and the Team Battle system, plus the ultra-smooth handling - but I'd be without none of them.

Indeed, all three are fantastic games and you really can't go wrong with any of them. I'm also SUPER eager to see how Out Zone compares with the trifecta, but M2 seem to be taking their time with it.

[BIL]

: Shooting games that treat enemies and their vehicles as distinct targets.

Like in COMMIE KILLA 64: HOLIDAY IN CAMBODIA



GO DINGHY GO, U CAN MAEK IT (｀ω´メ)

Spoiler

Yeah I bet you thought you scored a sweet gig as Official Boss Sniper, prick.
*CRACK*

Spoiler

Encourages precision AND makes it PERSONAL

[Searchlike]

Oh yes, excellent example!

And congrats for 1CCing the Expert mode, I remember it requiring surgical precision and intense concentration to clear.

Thanks! Surgical precision, yes. Check this out: https://twitter.com/HardDriveMag/status ... 5790192642

Purist Surgeon Refuses to Operate Surgery Robot With Anything but GameCube Controller

“Sure, there are plenty of more modern options available, but the GameCube controller is the only one I can consistently pull off all the robot’s techniques and exploits with,” said Dr. Powell, citing that his ability to do things “like wavedash up a patient’s colon while performing a colonoscopy” or “L-cancel after making an incision during a gallbladder removal” as being nearly impossible on anything other than the vintage Nintendo controller.

Long live the Gamecube controller.

I'm going to try my best to reach those Master levels, two years ago when I bought this game I told myself I was about 10 years too old to play it as my hands shaked a lot, but here I am. Also, I'd never heard of Sub-Terrania before and it looks fantastic. I'm a big fan of ridiculous control schemes that become second nature over time. Thanks for mentioning it!

[BulletMagnet]

Not sure if this really counts as a "mechanic", but I absolutely can't stand it when a game (particularly a 3D action title) is able to disengage my enemy lock-on without my input, i.e. if I get hit or move too far away for its liking, forcing me to figure out where the heck my target is all over again. If my lock-on disappears and I didn't specifically tell it to do so it better be because the target died, otherwise assume I'm not done with it yet; fights become ten times as irritating when this rule isn't followed.

[Stevens]

: Shooting games that treat enemies and their vehicles as distinct targets.

Like in COMMIE KILLA 64: HOLIDAY IN CAMBODIA



GO DINGHY GO, U CAN MAEK IT (｀ω´メ)

Spoiler

That's a uh...dick shaped surfboard?

[BIL]

Yes (｀ω´メ) By the summer of 1975, the VietCong were forced to desperate measures - enlisting their Giant Dildo Factories for the war effort. GIs traversing the Mekong Delta were met with fierce opposition from outboard-powered rubber dicks - each big and stiff enough for two men to ride.

NAM-1975: Not just a game - a documentary

Spoiler

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Not sure if this really counts as a "mechanic", but I absolutely can't stand it when a game (particularly a 3D action title) is able to disengage my enemy lock-on without my input, i.e. if I get hit or move too far away for its liking, forcing me to figure out where the heck my target is all over again.

For all my love of Bayonetta, it irritates me when this happens. There's a couple moves in your moveset that break lock-on like this, the main offender being Panther Within (I'm holding the lock-on button and the enemy is still there damn it!). Umbran Spear, the rapid transformation dash, also does it by virtue of the input being double-tap lock-on. If there's multiple enemies around, it forces you to retarget and dash to the nearest enemy, instead of the one you're focusing on. Not a big deal, but you can get around this in the PC version by tapping the keyboard lock on button twice, while holding lock-on on your controller. The game actually will register you're holding lock-on on your controller while still registering tapping-lock on keyboard! I use JoyToKey so D-Pad left = Umbran Spear input for this sort of thing.

[BIL]

Speaking of the wonderful Kamiya - Custom decals.

EDIT: lmao!

EDIT2: Wait what the fuck D:

[BulletMagnet]

Also not really a "mechanic", but I still somehow enjoy it every time it happens:

Game: Press "Start" to Begin

Me: *narrows eyes*

Me: *pushes "A" button*

Game: *Starts*

Me: F*** THE POLICE

[trap15]

Related, I recently learned that Phantasy Star II takes this concept very seriously. On the title screen, if you press Start, the game starts. If you press any other button, it brings up text that says "Push Start Button". Absolutely bizarre.

[Mischief Maker]

Always hate:

RPGs/strategy games/etc. that use invisible dice to determine success or failure.

"Your plan was perfect, but the dice say, 'fuck you."

Always love:

RPGs/strategy games/etc. that draw ability cards with deterministic effects.

Slay the Spire, Fights in Tight Spaces, Trials of Fire, etc. Down with computer dice, up with computer cards!

[mamboFoxtrot]

It's potentially interesting to have to make your plans accounting for multiple possibilities, but yeah in my experience with RPGs that's not really how it plays out. Can't really make multi-layered plans like that, plus its usually more like an invisible coin flip than a dice* -- you either hit the enemy or miss completely; your status effect magic successfully poisoned the enemy or absolutely nothing happened; etc etc
plus the other issue of the effects of RNG being way too volatile, like in Fire Emblem where a Crit can turn a glancing blow into outright murder.
(*but maybe that's just because my RPG experience is limited to JRPG stuff like Final Fantasy and such. Do the Western games tend to follow more the tabletop tradition of having multiple levels of success/failure on your actions?)

[Mischief Maker]

The W/J-RPG dichotomy breaks down when it comes to dice. It's entirely down to the individual developer's chosen mechanics. There are definitely western games where dice will royally fuck you just as bad.

I've found the better dice games are where an action involves multiple smaller dice rolls, like a squad firing their machineguns in Sanctus Reach and every bullet has its own separate roll so you don't get the "fuck you" feeling of your action accomplishing absolutely nothing, and also your 40% chance to hit volley will intuitively do something in the neighborhood of 40% max damage.

Compare that to Battle Brothers where everything is tied up in a single-action single-dice-roll, and that roll can be the difference between your veteran warrior bouncing an attack off his shield, or getting beheaded.

[BIL]

FUFUFUFU! I ARWAYS RABU: Brawling/fighting/general violent action games where being knocked down is a Really Bad Thing. I've remarked on this a few times ITT over the years, but occasionally I'll be reminded of a particularly choice example. ala Crime Fighters. No other beater I've seen is quite so cathartically unkind to enemies (or players) who make the mistake of getting laid out.

There's gonna be a WUT?
*ahem*
STOMP EM IN THE NUUUTS



Sorry bro, fightin alone in the street, imma stomp your bawbag into a fuckin slush puppy before I let you up, naw mean

On the opposite end, NOT REARRY KEEN ON TBH: Games that are overtly kind to a floored target. Now there are disciplines where fighting from the ground is very much a thing, yes - never mind the possibilities within the wide, wonderful world of godforsaken biohorror. But as a general principle, I don't like feeling punished for laying a motherfucker out! Splatterhouse Part 3 (Japan ver), while an excellent consolised FFesque overall, will always rankle slightly, with its monsters "falling out of" your pulverising combos once they enter "damaged" state.

Though, as some silver lining, it makes skipping that and killing the fuckers outright with calculated, inhumanly BEEFY HITZ even more satisfying that it already is! tbh XenoBro, your busted hooter is of least concern, after me big knobby fist's only gone and turned yer arsehole into fookin steamin ravioli, ya dafty!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Konami's Metamorphic Force has some of the most brutal on the ground beatdowns. From poking people rudely with a log in the butt, sitting on them, stabbing them, landing air to ground attacks then kicking them repeatedly in the crotch, literally dancing on their corpses, it's a game that has it all!



It also has THE ULTIMATE RUDENESS in the form of the best character having a low jump attack that OTGs grounded enemies. Instant knockdowns and ground punish in one!

[BIL]

Oh damn, I didn't know THE PUMAMAN had gotten a second brawler gig after Golden Axe 3! It figures, though, with him being the best thing in that game by miles!

The Theme Of The Pumaman ♫

Loving a mid-speech PHOENIXMAN getting kicked in the face and mudhole-stomped by WEREWOLFMAN

Konami's brawlers definitely carried on a bit of that Kunio ground-pound legacy, well into the 90s. First thing in Crime Fighters 2, stomping on those poor bridge-hanging pricks' fingers so they fall to their doom.

[Rastan78]

What always struck me about Metamorphic Force was how much it felt like it was based on some licensed property that never was. You can almost imagine the 90s style toys and cartoons that would've gone along with the game. But really it's got to be on of Konami's only belt strollers that was actually an original IP other than Crime Fighters.

Glad I came across that cab a few times in the day as it always made quite an impression with amazing sprite work and animation throughout.

[BrianC]

What always struck me about Metamorphic Force was how much it felt like it was based on some licensed property that never was. You can almost imagine the 90s style toys and cartoons that would've gone along with the game. But really it's got to be on of Konami's only belt strollers that was actually an original IP other than Crime Fighters.

Glad I came across that cab a few times in the day as it always made quite an impression with amazing sprite work and animation throughout.

Konami also had Violent Storm, though I'm not sure if that was meant to be a sequel to Crime Fighters 2 or not. That game also has a character who bears a huge resemblance to Reggie Mantle from Archie comics.

I am not an Animal! I am a human being!

Loving a mid-speech BIG BIRD getting kicked in the face and mudhole-stomped by the BIG BAD WOLF

Fixed

[BareKnuckleRoo]

What always struck me about Metamorphic Force was how much it felt like it was based on some licensed property that never was. You can almost imagine the 90s style toys and cartoons that would've gone along with the game.

This is basically a perfect description of the game.

Loving a mid-speech BIG BIRD getting kicked in the face and mudhole-stomped by the BIG BAD WOLF

I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll kick your shit in. The orcs are serving as standins for the little piggies in this game.

There's nothing quite like cutting off birdbro's speech at "WHO ARE YOU-" with a kick to the face. Shame there's only two bosses you can interrupt like this!

[Sima Tuna]

Oh damn, I didn't know THE PUMAMAN had gotten a second brawler gig after Golden Axe 3! It figures, though, with him being the best thing in that game by miles!

The Theme Of The Pumaman ♫

I mean... You could play as a different character in Golden Axe 3. They... They exist.

But why would you?



Right in the dick!

This brings me to something I love in games. When every enemy in your game is designed to present a totally different challenge. The Streets of Rage series nails this, as does Golden Axe 3. Even the most basic enemy can be a real asshole if you let him. When there are no "generic" enemies who exist to stand around and get hit, I think the design of the game is that much stronger. Every enemy can then be combined in unique and challenging ways. Streets of Rage will start you out with Garcias. One or two Garcias aren't a big deal. But suddenly, it's time for a whip lady and a garcia. Or some donovans and garcias. Then you add in a clown juggling axes, some motorcycle gimps, and a fire-breathing fatass. The challenge doesn't come simply from ramping up enemy numbers or hp. It's dynamic difficulty, testing your ability to manage many enemies when they're working in tandem against you.

I haven't played Golden Axe 3 as much as the streets of rage games, but I remember that the most basic spear guys will neutral jump and attack if you try to just walk up and spam attack them. Some of the other golden axe enemy types from previous games have a similar "thing" they're all about, like the small fat guys dash attacking you.

[Searchlike]

What always struck me about Metamorphic Force was how much it felt like it was based on some licensed property that never was. You can almost imagine the 90s style toys and cartoons that would've gone along with the game.

On the other hand, how is C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa based on an actual cartoon and not just some ill attempt at a parody of 90's anthropomorphic animal shows? Sweet lord, that's taking COWABUNGA too far. Great game, though.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Sweet lord, that's taking COWABUNGA too far.

The guy who made it actually is also best known for his work on TMNT.

[Rastan78]

It's funny that Konami did so many licensed games they ending up using some real deep cuts like Moo Mesa. It was probably motivated by the shit tons of cash they made off of TMNT, so they were trying to repeat that formula. Supposedly the creator of Castlevania was very disgruntled by Konami's obsession with TMNT. But how did Konami never make a Brave Starr beat em up?

https://youtu.be/wUfJuOp7Dck