XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Artemio]

The wiki is community owned, so surely we'll add a page =)

I want to get one as well, haven't preordered it though.

[Plasia]

Yep as said, cps3 is a bit odd.

Also atomiswave doesn't output standard rgbhv, but rgbs in 31khz.

I mentioned both because they test some non-mainstream aspects.

Also the wii component output is at an amplified level and can cause issues, for instance my pdi deluxe (sweetspot) is sort of washed out when the wii is hooked up to it.

[BuckoA51]

I'd be very interested in any tests you can do with the Megadrive and the Sega Master System. SMS was always touch and go with the XRGB3 and my Genesis has that weird added lag problem. Do you think it'll still be best to feed the Mini into the DVDO Edge or route it around?

[Zapf]

I'm interested in getting an appropriate cable fashioned so I dont have to go m/m scart -> scart to jp21 -> jp21 to din, so if you could post a pinout and whatever type of plug it is, that would be greatly appreciated (or is that already available?)

[Sinneslöschen]

Would be nice, if you could have a look for those things:

-Scanline performance in general (if different from XRGB 2/3)
-hori/vert position adjustments (in scanline mode)
-720p/1080i Output possible or just 1080p?

Thanks in advance!

[Fudoh]

Do you think it'll still be best to feed the Mini into the DVDO Edge or route it around?

this would completely destroy the purpose. I expect the Mini to scale much better than the Edge.

720p/1080i Output possible or just 1080p?

have a look into the manual, there are lots of different output resolutions available. The only downside is that 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 only have an active picture area of 1080 lines.

so if you could post a pinout and whatever type of plug it is, that would be greatly appreciated

I'll do that.

[Strider77]

I don't think so. The manual only states 240p and 480i for the Mini-Din input on the front.

So the only other non HDMI port (other than the front port) is the component input right?

I have a VGA to component transcoder... as long as that transcoder can handle low res, my set up wouldn't change all that much for the Dreamcast.

[Konsolkongen]

SPOILER:
Fudoh is getting his XRGB Mini today

[Fudoh]

It's in !

First impression tonight and full review early this weekend

[BuckoA51]

Yay! Fudoh - reviewing expensive stuff so we don't have to!

[Zapf]

Or so we feel less bad doing so soon after.

[Fudoh]

Ok, a few initial impressions after connecting the mini, going through the menus and playing a few PS2 titles:

- no D-Terminal breakout adapter included. Make sure to have one ready at home!
- menu's completely in english. remote's completely in japanese.
- no scanline density setting available. Scanlines are bit stronger than I like them (I prefer 160-175 on the XRGB-3)
- no continuously adjustable zoom or overscan, just rough presets
- "classic" scanlines work for 240p, 480i and 480p input
- scaling engine looks ok, but not great
- 240p processing looks very nice
- 480i deinterlacing looks solid for real 480i titles, but weird for "240p on 480i" modes
- 480p processing looked good on a "240p on 480p title" but kinda soft on a real 480p title
- 480p output looks very much like a Faroudja processor (= less sharp than the XRGB-3)
- 720p is great, 1080p is good.
- 480p output with scanlines looks like a Videon + SLG3000
- 720p output with scanlines looks like the XRGB-3 in B1
- 1080p + scanlines = fail (because only 1 instead of 2 in every 4 lines are darkened, which doesn't look good)

More infos to come !

[Konsolkongen]

- 1080p + scanlines = fail (because only 1 instead of 2 in every 4 lines are darkened, which doesn't look good)

That sucks But it should be possible to correct in a firmware update right?

[Fudoh]

sure, should be fixable. Tonight I'll pull out my PC Engine and Mega Drive.

[Konsolkongen]

Awesome. I'm glad 240p support seems to be good, I take it that you have already tested dropshadows and whatnot

When you are testing your MegaDrive could you please test the V-sync setting (if any) with scanlines and 720p/1080p. I can't stand playing Saturn and MegaDrive on the XRGB-3 without V-sync otherwise the picture stutters when moving. A game like Air Busters/Aero Blasters should do nicely when testing for stuttering.

I realise that MVS probably won't work with V-sync on, but I can live with that.

EDIT: And scanline density should be fixable in a future update as well, right?

[BuckoA51]

no scanline density setting available. Scanlines are bit stronger than I like them (I prefer 160-175 on the XRGB-3)

Way to dark for me then, I like my scanlines very subtle (in the 200's on the XRGB3). Perhaps if the 240p handling doesn't beat the XRGB3 you could try XRGB3 B1->Frame Meister and see how compatible that is? If you get the chance of course.

1080p + scanlines = fail (because only 1 instead of 2 in every 4 lines are darkened, which doesn't look good)

You mean 1080p output I assume, rather than trying to scanline a 1080p input?

[Hamburglar]

Hey Fudoh, after using it, do you still think it does a better job than the Edge?

[Fudoh]

could you please test the V-sync setting (if any)

haven't seen any v-sync option so far. I assume it's automatically. There's a "sync" option, but I don't see what it does. I'll get into that later on...

XRGB3 B1->Frame Meister

Maybe. Requires a lot of cabling. Which converter would you like to see in between as the Mini doesn't have VGA?

You mean 1080p output I assume, rather than trying to scanline a 1080p input?

yes, 240p/480i/480p, Meister-mode w/ scanlines -> 1080p outputl

after using it, do you still think it does a better job than the Edge?

on what signals ? 240p ? Of course.

[BuckoA51]

Which converter would you like to see in between as the Mini doesn't have VGA?

Oh I forgot about that, never mind then not terribly interested in that now, thanks.

[Fudoh]

haha, ok. Despite any flaws, the combination of a XRGB-3 and a DVDO Edge is powerful combo.

[alamone]

I'm mostly interested in PCB compatibility and frame-rate conversion for non-60hz sources.
I'll be getting mine probably next week as I'm waiting to ship it together with some other stuff.
When I get mine, I'll be testing it with the PCBs I have:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... E&hl=en_US

[Artemio]

I'm mostly interested in PCB compatibility and frame-rate conversion for non-60hz sources.
I'll be getting mine probably next week as I'm waiting to ship it together with some other stuff.
When I get mine, I'll be testing it with the PCBs I have:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... E&hl=en_US

You could help enrich the wiki with the info you gather, if you don't mind... =)

[Konsolkongen]

When I get mine, I'll be testing it with the PCBs I have:

That's cool. Be sure to let us know when you have tested them all.

[Konsolkongen]

Any LPF setting needed to display 240p sources nicely like on the XRGB-3? If yes, how much does it smoothen the picture compared to the XRGB-3's and do you need to manually switch it off for 480p?

[Fudoh]

There's no manual filter. There's a manual A/D option, but it seemed fine on the auto setting.

[Konsolkongen]

There's no manual filter.

I assume that's a positive thing?

[wildchild22]

Hey Fudoh do you feel the frame meister is worthwhile upgrade to owners of the xrgb-3 presently?

[Fudoh]

You'll have to wait for my review to find out about this.

[RGB32E]

- 720p is great, 1080p is good.
- 480p output with scanlines looks like a Videon + SLG3000
- 720p output with scanlines looks like the XRGB-3 in B1
- 1080p + scanlines = fail (because only 1 instead of 2 in every 4 lines are darkened, which doesn't look good)

More infos to come !

What's that supposed to mean? I know you don't use your XRGB-3 in B0 @ 1080p, but I'm wondering if you can do an accurate comparison of the XRGB-mini and the XRGB-3... B0 @ 1080p vs. Game1 picture mode at 1080p?

I know you've commented in the past about B0 scaling being "bad"... I've found quite the contrary... I suppose I'll determine this for myself in the near future!

[RGB32E]

Also, I have the 8 pin mini din pinout for the mini! I'm planning to build various adapters (DB25 for PVM cables, BNCs for RGBS, HD15, ect) and some direct cables (Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar) this weekend.